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The Jeff - Round 3

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George Carlin
emontagu
doctor_grey
nathan
Rugby Fan
Heaf
little_badger
stub
Poorfour
ChequeredJersey
BamBam
Welly
Geordie
formerly known as Sam
Ozzy3213
Knackeredknees
No 7&1/2
Bathman_in_London
Sgt_Pooly
LondonTiger
HongKongCherry
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Post by HongKongCherry Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 0:12

As LT is away I'll post the latest version, but I won't provide anywhere near the level of detail that he does, but at least it gives us the option to discuss the games.

Saturday 31st
Sarries (1st) v Irish (12th) 1pm
Bath (8th) v Quins (6th) 1.30pm
Glaws (5th) v Wuss (10th) 2pm

Sunday 1st November
Falcons (11th) v Chiefs (3rd) 1pm BT
Sale (9th) v Saints (4th) 2.30pm
Tigers (2nd) v Wasps (7th) 3.15pm BT
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Post by LondonTiger Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 8:09

Sarries will stay top, Irish bottom. Other than that am loath to predict.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 16:18

I hope we get something from this one.

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Post by HongKongCherry Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 19:09

I'm going for home wins on Saturday and away wins on Sunday, but quite frankly most could go either way! For Glaws games with Wuss are never easy and I just hope we've found our clinical edge after wasting so many opportunities against Sarries.
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Post by Bathman_in_London Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 20:17

I think home wins on the Saturday. Bath will have to raise their game considerably though.

Sunday; Exeter looked good against Bath but still managed to lose, if they play like that again I can't see past them. Saints will win at Sale I think but Tigers vs Pests could go either way, although I think Wasps will get something from the match, they have recruited really well I think.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 21:46

I'll be happy with a losing bp against the cheats.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 22:05

Must feel good to finally have the shoe on the other foot yappy! If it's any consolation I think you'll draw first blood!

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Post by Knackeredknees Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 22:28

I'm going for sarries, Quins and glos to win on Saturday.
And chiefs, saints and wasps to win on Sunday

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Post by Ozzy3213 Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 23:16

All logic says we'll get humped this week, but then again it did when we went to Allianz Park in early 2014, and we turned them over that day. I'll wait and see the team announcements before predicting.
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 23:40

We've actually done ok against Exeter at home of late but our defence has been dreadful so far.

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Post by yappysnap Thu 29 Oct 2015 - 23:51

No 7&1/2 wrote:Must feel good to finally have the shoe on the other foot yappy! If it's any consolation I think you'll draw first blood!

Ha possibly!

I'd love us to get the win but just think the Bath pack and home advantage will be enough, especially if the ref is anything like last weekends.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 4:30

Tigers vs Wasps should be a good battle. With Cole and Youngs likely to start you'd back our front row for the scrum though the continued absence of Kitchener with a rib injury continues to deprive us of his bulk in the scrum and excellence in the line out. Crane is supposed to be back and starting so at least our line out defence will improve.

Wasps have bags of pace and a back row that is brutal at the breakdown. There should be plenty of tries in this one.

I have a feeling Worcester are the under dogs to back this weekend.

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Post by Geordie Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 19:20

We're going to get handed our backsides to us....need I go further?


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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:03

Wasps team to play Leicester Tigers at Welford Road on Sunday 1 November, KO 3.15pm

15. Ruaridh Jackson
14. Christian Wade
13. Elliot Daly
12. James Downey
11. Frank Halai
10. Jimmy Gopperth
9. Dan Robson
1. Matt Mullan
2. Carlo Festuccia
3. Jake Cooper-Woolley
4. Joe Launchbury
5. Kearnan Myall
6. James Haskell ©
7. George Smith
8. Nathan Hughes

16. Ashley Johnson
17. Tom Bristow
18. Lorenzo Cittadini
19. Bradley Davies
20. Guy Thompson
21. Joe Simpson
22. Alex Lozowski
23. Sailosi Tagicakibau

Unavailable for selection:

Rob Miller - picked up a hamstring injury against Bath last weekend which will sideline the full back for approximately 3-4 weeks.

Ben Jacobs - sprained his knee against Bath, which has ruled out of contention this week.

Simon McIntyre – at the time of selection was undergoing return to play protocols following an HIA against Bath, and has now completed his first full training session.

Andrea Masi – is back at the club, working with the physios and S&C team during his recovery from a torn Achilles.

Alapati Leiua - is progressing well during rehab, following his ACL reconstruction over the summer, and is expected to return to training late November.

James Johnston - twisted his knee during training and is expected to return to training early next month.

Charles Piutau - will take part in his first training session with Wasps next week.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:05

Tigers:

Balmain, Youngs, Cole, Fitzgerald, Williams, Croft, McCaffrey, Fonua
Harrison, Williams, Goneva, Smith, Betyham, thompstone, Tait

Bench:
Bateman, Logo, Pasquali, Barrow, Crane, Kitto, Bai, Veainu

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:07

On paper Wasps look much stronger. With Bell not recovered from the injury sustained when tackled into the advertising hoardings, we cannot afford for Williams to get a knock.

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Post by HongKongCherry Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:09

Glaws:
Charlie Sharples; David Halaifonua, Billy Twelvetrees (capt), Bill Meakes, Jonny May; James Hook, Willi Heinz; Paddy McAllister, Richard Hibbard, John Afoa; Tom Savage, Sione Kalamafoni; Ross Moriarty, Matt Kvesic, Ben Morgan

Replacements:

Chris Brooker, Yann Thomas, Paul Doran-Jones, Elliott Stooke, Jacob Rowan, Callum Braley, Billy Burns, Henry Purdy

Wuss:
15 Chris Pennell
14 Tom Biggs
13 Wynand Olivier
12 Ryan Mills
11 Cooper Vuna
10 Tom Heathcote
9 Jonny Arr
1 Na'ama Leleimalefaga
2 Niall Annett
3 Nick Schonert
4 Donncha O'Callaghan
5 Tevita Cavubati
6 Phil Dowson
7 Marco Mama
8 GJ van Velze (C)

Replacements
16 Dan George
17 Val Rapava Ruskin
18 Joe Rees
19 Darren Barry
20 Matt Cox
21 Charlie Mulchrone
22 Ryan Lamb
23 Ben Howard
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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:10

Barrow fit.

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Post by BamBam Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:10

LondonTiger wrote:Tigers:

Balmain, Youngs, Cole, Fitzgerald, Williams, Croft, McCaffrey, Fonua
Harrison, Williams, Goneva, Smith, Betyham, thompstone, Tait

Bench:
Bateman, Logo, Pasquali, Barrow, Crane, Kitto, Bai, Veainu

Thought Barrow was going to be out for a fair while yet, good to see him back

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:29

Disappointed we've gone all bosh in the centre. Would have liked to have seen us bring in Bryant at 12 or at least have him on the bench as a creative option. Bai on the bench means he's not fit and will likely drop out by Sunday.

Balmain in at loose head is a big ask for a prop that normally plays tight head.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:30

[www.quins.co.uk

ROBSHAW RETURNS AS VISSER MAKES HARLEQUINS DEBUT 

HARLEQUINS HAS ANNOUNCED THE SQUAD TO PLAY BATH RUGBY IN ROUND 3 OF THE AVIVA PREMIERSHIP AT THE REC ON SATURDAY, KICK-OFF 13:30. 


There are six changes to the starting team which played Leicester Tigers last week. 

Joe Marler, Joe Gray, Chris Robshaw, Nick Easter and Club captain Danny Care make their first starts of the season, while Tim Visser, who starts on the wing, makes his senior debut for Harlequins. 


Among the replacements, Luke Wallace and Karl Dickson are named. 

Back-row forward Netani Talei suffered a knee injury during Monday evening’s match with Newport Gwent Dragons. The Fijian is expected to be out for a considerable period of time and a further update will be provided following consultation with a specialist. 

Harlequins return to The Stoop next Friday (6th Novemmber) to play Sale Sharks, kick-off 19:45. Tickets are still available and can be purchased by clicking here or calling [url=tel:020 8410 6010]020 8410 6010[/url]. 

Harlequins team (v Bath Rugby, 13:30, The Rec) 
15. Mike Brown 
14. Marland Yarde 
13. George Lowe 
12. Harry Sloan 
11. Tim Visser 
10. Nick Evans 
9. Danny Care© 

1. Joe Marler 
2. Joe Gray 
3. Adam Jones 
4. James Horwill 
5. Sam Twomey 
6. Jack Clifford 
7. Chris Robshaw 
8. Nick Easter 

16. Dave Ward 
17. Mark Lambert 
18. Kyle Sinckler 
19. Charlie Matthews 
20. Luke Wallace 
21. Karl Dickson 
22. Ben Botica 
23. Ollie Lindsay-Hague
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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:30

formerly known as Sam wrote:Disappointed we've gone all bosh in the centre. Would have liked to have seen us bring in Bryant at 12 or at least have him on the bench as a creative option. Bai on the bench means he's not fit and will likely drop out by Sunday.

Balmain in at loose head is a big ask for a prop that normally plays tight head.

Bryant went off injured for Doncaster last weekend at about 30 mins in i think.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:33

Bryant not registered for AP either.

Bai only back in full training today I think.

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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:35

LondonTiger wrote:Bryant not registered for AP either.

Bai only back in full training today I think.

Yes he is.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:39

Welly wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:Bryant not registered for AP either.

Bai only back in full training today I think.

Yes he is.

The impression I got from a Q&A session during pre-season was that none of the Developement squad were currently registered for AP - and thus did not count against the salary cap.

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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:40

Well names are down on the AP Website.

Ben White played last week, not in senior squad.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:43

Welly wrote: Well names are down on the AP Website.

Ben White played last week, not in senior squad.

Ben White is Academy though. I may be wrong, but that was the impression given when the coaches were asked about the purpose of the development squad.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:44

Wouldn't surprise me if the development players weren't registered to try and keep them out of the cap unless they play the required games, ala the academy.

I thought I'd seen that Bryant was taken off as mainly a precaution? In a slight tangent it was good to see he has been starting at 10 for a few games in a row for the Knights.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:46

As to centre it would have been nice to see Roberts or Catchpole get a go rather than the "solid" Smith.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:52

I suspect that Roberts is probably injured again. He tends to be in and out of the physio room. I would have quite liked to see him get a game. I don't think Catchpole and Betham would have worked as a centre combo. Smith will deal with the physicality of Downey.

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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:53

formerly known as Sam wrote:I suspect that Roberts is probably injured again. He tends to be in and out of the physio room. I would have quite liked to see him get a game. I don't think Catchpole and Betham would have worked as a centre combo. Smith will deal with the physicality of Downey.

This think Roberts is still not 100% with his ACL (I think).

Catchpole has looked good on wing but prob isn't a 12.

As Sam said Smith will at least deal with crash ball.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:54

Happy with that Quins side. Clearly actually going to be able to rotate this season, which is nice. Expect Robshaw to show that he still is an excellent player, though with both Ward and Wallace off he'll need to focus on the breakdown. Just hope Marler, Brown and Care play as well as we know they can, Nev keeps his form up and the scrum goes ok. Excited to see what Visser can bring
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Post by Welly Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:57

ChequeredJersey wrote:Happy with that Quins side. Clearly actually going to be able to rotate this season, which is nice. Expect Robshaw to show that he still is an excellent player, though with both Ward and Wallace off he'll need to focus on the breakdown. Just hope Marler, Brown and Care play as well as we know they can, Nev keeps his form up and the scrum goes ok. Excited to see what Visser can bring

Do you think there is a chance Robshaw might lose his place? or not.

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Post by LondonTiger Fri 30 Oct 2015 - 23:58

Robshaw is far superior to Wallace.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 0:00

Welly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Happy with that Quins side. Clearly actually going to be able to rotate this season, which is nice. Expect Robshaw to show that he still is an excellent player, though with both Ward and Wallace off he'll need to focus on the breakdown. Just hope Marler, Brown and Care play as well as we know they can, Nev keeps his form up and the scrum goes ok. Excited to see what Visser can bring

Do you think there is a chance Robshaw might lose his place? or not.

Depends how well he and all the other options play. If he's not playing well enough, then yes. Wallace and Clifford have looked good. But this isn't his first set back, and a lot of people have forgotten how good he is at rugby
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Post by LondonTiger Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 0:01

I thought Clifford looked good last week, Wallace a bit average though. The big No8 looked promising, but lazy.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 0:04

Wallace had a v good game vs wasps though. In the end, having some depth is good
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Post by Poorfour Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 0:30

Robshaw isn't as quick as Wallace, but he has a priceless knack of being exactly where he needs to be, and he gets through so much work it tends to lift the team as a whole. I'd be very surprised to see him lose a first XV spot in the short to medium term.

What I could see happening this season is Clifford overtaking him as the first name on the team sheet, and possibly even taking his spot in the EPS. Great all round skill set, faster and more powerful than Robshaw and with better handling skills. But first he has to stay fit and show he can do it week-in, week-out, which has been the graveyard of most of England's back row contenders.
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Post by stub Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 1:05

formerly known as Sam wrote:Tigers vs Wasps should be a good battle. With Cole and Youngs likely to start you'd back our front row for the scrum though the continued absence of Kitchener with a rib injury continues to deprive us of his bulk in the scrum and excellence in the line out. Crane is supposed to be back and starting so at least our line out defence will improve.

Wasps have bags of pace and a back row that is brutal at the breakdown. There should be plenty of tries in this one.

I have a feeling Worcester are the under dogs to back this weekend.


I do hope you're right Sam!!

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Post by yappysnap Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 1:54

Welly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Happy with that Quins side. Clearly actually going to be able to rotate this season, which is nice. Expect Robshaw to show that he still is an excellent player, though with both Ward and Wallace off he'll need to focus on the breakdown. Just hope Marler, Brown and Care play as well as we know they can, Nev keeps his form up and the scrum goes ok. Excited to see what Visser can bring

Do you think there is a chance Robshaw might lose his place? or not.

Wallace does one thing better then Robshaw, get turnovers. So I guess it depends on the role we want game to game, there's a place for both of them as they do different things. Wallace is also leading the tackle count in the Prem at the mo, so he isn't shy to do the dirty work.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 1:56

Oh and with Ward and Wallace both not starting I expect we'll compete a lot less with the big Bath pack at the breakdown, so we may see a more offloading and moving Quins team in attack, and a team focussing on first up tackles and not competing in D.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 2:41

Newcastle Falcons squad v Exeter Chiefs - 1/11/2015 - KO 13:00

15 Hammersley 14 Tait 13 Penny 12 Powell 11 Venditti 10 Delany 9 Young 1 Fry 2 Lawson 3 Welsh 4 Botha 5 Green 6 Welch ( C ) 7 Latu 8 Hogg

Replacements - 16 McGuigan 17 Vickers 18 Vea 19 Furno 20 Clever 21 Tipuna 22 Catterick 23 Agulla

15 Phil Dollman 14 Matt Jess 13 Henry Slade 12 Sam Hill 11 James Short 10 Gareth Steenson (capt) 9 Will Chudley
1 Ben Moon 2 Luke Cowan-Dickie 3 Tomas Francis 4 Mitch Lees 5 Damian Welch 6 Dave Ewers 7 Julian Salvi 8 Don Armand

16 Jack Yeandle 17 Alec Hepburn 18 Moray Low 19 Ollie Atkins 20 Thomas Waldrom 21 Dave Lewis 22 Ian Whitten 23 Olly Woodburn

Strong pack from us for this one, bar possibly Welch at 6.

We've got 3/4 midfielders out so that could be an area of weakness. Hope the backline clicks and the scrum continues to improve....defence must be better to stand any chance.

Heart says 24-20 to Falcons, head says 24-30 to Exeter.

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Post by ChequeredJersey Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 2:54

Based on last season, Wallace doesn't get turnovers better than Robshaw. He's looked better at BD so far this season though, and we know from the past that he is good there
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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 3:35

You reckon CJ?

I think Wallace has a really poor technique at the breakdown personally. He doesn't look to support his own weight, often just placing his hands on the deck in front of the carrier. He'd be pinged off the park with a SH ref.

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 5:15

Sinoti injured?

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 5:18

LondonTiger wrote:Sinoti injured?

Yep, last week also.

Not sure if Tuilagi has been dropped, he was dreadful last week. Penny at 13 is a worry but I like the pack bar Welch.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 6:55

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You reckon CJ?

I think Wallace has a really poor technique at the breakdown personally. He doesn't look to support his own weight, often just placing his hands on the deck in front of the carrier. He'd be pinged off the park with a SH ref.

Or he plays to the ref?

Based on the RWC a lot of refs are 50/50 on the bodyweight thing if you're quick enough on to the ball.

He's got a few turnovers without getting penalised much in the last two games so isn't doing too badly so far.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 8:50

yappysnap wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You reckon CJ?

I think Wallace has a really poor technique at the breakdown personally. He doesn't look to support his own weight, often just placing his hands on the deck in front of the carrier. He'd be pinged off the park with a SH ref.

Or he plays to the ref?

Based on the RWC a lot of refs are 50/50 on the bodyweight thing if you're quick enough on to the ball.

He's got a few turnovers without getting penalised much in the last two games so isn't doing too badly so far.

What I've seen he doesn't.

His technique is to put his hands on deck as he seemingly can't support his ala Pocock. I've seen him pinged a few times for this in the AP and then get away with it, it's poor technique imo. He's also seems to get bullied a lot at the breakdown, he's certainly not progressed as I thought. Clifford looks a special though.

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Post by yappysnap Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 19:12

Last season was definitely a case of second season syndrome (or third season). Hopefully this season he'll kick on.

Clifford looks very good, but could just as easily have a poor season as he's been relatively unknown up until now. I imagine analysts will be paying more attention to him soon.

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The Jeff - Round 3 Empty Re: The Jeff - Round 3

Post by Poorfour Sat 31 Oct 2015 - 22:20

yappysnap wrote:Last season was definitely a case of second season syndrome (or third season). Hopefully this season he'll kick on.

Clifford looks very good, but could just as easily have a poor season as he's been relatively unknown up until now. I imagine analysts will be paying more attention to him soon.

He's not relatively unknown to the England setup or anyone who follows the wider England player groups. He captained the U20s to their first JRWC title, ferchrissakes. (Yup, the one before Itoje's year). That's hardly a low profile thing.

But he missed most of a year to injury and doesn't look as distinctive as Itoje or play as visible a role as Ford or Slade.

He could have a poor season, but he's got all the talent necessary to step up to the highest level.
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