Aviva Premiership - Round 4

First topic message reminder :

Current Positions

Team	Points
Saracens	13
Leicester	12
Exeter	11
Harlequins	9
Gloucester	9
Sale Sharks	9
Northampton	7
Wasps	5
Bath	5
Worcester	5
London Irish	0
Newcastle	0

Fixtures

Friday 6th November 2015

19:45 Harlequins  v   Sale Sharks Twickenham Stoop BT Sport

Both teams will arrive at the Stoop for the first of four televised fixtures with two wins so far and having beaten playoff teams from last season in round 3. Harlequins away win at the Rec was the more notable (Only two late tries saved Bath from what the commentator was, at 70 minutes, calling a total humiliation.), but Sale's ability to shut down the Saints attack should not be ignored. While not exactly a head-to-head it will be interesting to see how the main playmakers for each side, Care and Cipriani, fare. Care still, to me, looks to be searching for form and we shall see how he responds to his first home start as club captain. Cipriani will delight in thre presence of the TV cameras, and will be out to show that he shoudl have been at the RWC. Equally fascinating will be the back row battle. Sale will probably go with the two opensides as usual, and their experienced pairing will be a good test for whoever O'Shea deigns to select.
I struggle to se any result other than a win for Quins - but probably no TBP.



Saturday 7th November 2015

15:00 London Irish  v   Bath Rugby Madejski Stadium

Misfiring Bath will arrive in Reading desperate to kick start their season against winless Irish. London Irish were handed a terrible start to the season, facing four of last seasons top 5. As the season unfolds this may prove to be a blessing in disguise - probably better to try and bed in new players and methods against teams you expect to lose against rather than against teams youshould be beating. While the attack in general has so far not clicked for Irish, their rolling maul has been hugely effective. Add in players like Maitland (who surely will improve on last week) and Irish have the tools to upset Bath.
Bath are not playing well. Beaten by Quins and Wasps, their only wion was almost gifted to them by Exeter on the first weekend. The set piece is misfiring and they have been second best at the breakdown. Will be interesting to see if Francois Louw is rushed back into the side. they are creating opportunities though. Any number of times in the first half against Quins they worked the ball into the opposition 22 only to fall over when close to the line. A mix of poor hands and white line fever allowed the boys from Surrey to constantly repel them.
Should Bath play to their potential this could be a thumping win, however I have a sneaking feeling that Irish will be scrapping for everything and sneak a victory.



15:00 Worcester Warriors  v   Newcastle Falcons Sixways

Is it too early to call this a relegation match? Worcester will feel that their win over 2014 champs Saints and narrow defeat at Kingsholm should earn them more respect than that. Falcons fans however will be watching through clenched fingers. To call Falcons poor so far would be a serious understatement. We know they have talent - but the application so far this season has been absent. A workmanlike team with great spirit like Worcester should have enough to win this with some ease. Unless Falcons brink more than they have so far it will be yet more depression for our Geordie friends.



15:15 Northampton Saints  v   Saracens Franklin's Gardens BT Sport

Huge fixture with the away team bang in form and looking to enter Euro weeks with a perfect start to the season. Saints are struggling. they seem to have reverted completely to Warrenball and as Wales are oft accused seem to have no plan B. Sarries will not back down from the physical challenge, so can Saints deliver something different on their return to a new, improved Franklin's Gardens?



17:30 Exeter Chiefs  v   Leicester Tigers Sandy Park BT Sport

Can Leicester continue their winning run this season. Having done the double in the AP last season over Exeter, and with some big names likely to be returning to the lineup they will be hopeful. Exeter should however provide a really stern test of the tigers defence. At times last season the Midlanders were over-run by sides willing to put pace and width on the ball - and Exeter are certainly capable of doing that. Baxter and his men will be fully aware that last season they allowed Tigers to drag them into an arm-wrestle at Sandy Park and will be looking to improve their own performance. Will be interesting to see which tigers Old Boys make the lineup for the men from Devon.
Exeter should win, probably denying Leicester an LBP




Sunday 8th November 2015

15:00 Wasps  v   Gloucester Rugby Ricoh Arena BT Sport

Final match of the weekend sees what will be a Gopperth-less (banned for 3 weeks so misses the first two ECC rounds) Wasps host a promising looking Gloucester team. this really could be a crackerjack of a game - though Daly and Wade will need to show more form than they have so far. Wasps could well be without Nathan Hughes following a knee injury at Welford Road. I am looking forward to seeing Kvesic against old master George Smith.
Wasps to win an entertaining match by less than a score.

10 - 3 Exe 30 seconds left of 1st half.

13 - 3 end of 1st half.

Edgy second half

Ref muddled himself up there

yappysnap wrote:Ref muddled himself up there

Ref was muddled all game. Very inconsistent.

Exeter looked well drilled and organised.

We looked mostly there but there were some glaring issues. Missing three loose heads is taking the teeth out of our scrum we certainly have no bite there at present. The second row was a disappointment, De Chaves was useless and Barrow little better. Neither look capable of mixing it with Stade next week. The backs look exciting but we need some more direction there which we can only hope will come with a bit more time.

Yea a bit too side to side in the backs Sam. That and only Crane really carrying well for you guys made it a struggle when you were in their 22.

For Exeter, their former Tigers shone but their whole backline looked sharp too

Thought Salvi was quiet and Waldrom was industrious but not what he offered last season.

Individually we looked threatening but during phase play it was a bit slow and side to side. Barrow and De Chaves failed to either carry or clear out the Exeter forwards slowing the ball down. Made it tough to get going. At least one positive is that we managed to blood a lot of young players out there again and Ben got some valuable game time after his injury.

yappysnap wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Two appalling decisions by ref Pearce gifts 6 points to Saracens. Farrell gets away with retaliation on a tackle that was not late at full speed, while Burger clears out a ruck with a flying headbutt as Saints penalised for holding on.

This. After slating Sarries for the last few weeks I went in to this game trying to have an open mind on them, the actions of a few Sarries players though, Farrell, Burger and Hargreaves have soured that. Can't think of a team more difficult to like.

Burger should have seen yellow last week against LI for a no arms shoulder charge on a player without the ball but somehow got away with it ...

It looks like it's Falcons v Irish to see who can go down at this early stage. Seems like we've been here before lads....

are looking absolutely superb.

Do fans of Sarries/Quins/Tigers ever believe that Exeter have the stuff to actually kick on and win the league this year?

Win it? I don't know as knock outs be crazy

But they can definetly make play offs

Just seen the the thompstone no try, thought it was harsh as his hand was pushing the ball backwards when grounded. Lovely run though

Yea great run, absolutely bamboozled his opposite number who ends up just standing their as he goes past him. Shame most games he does so little for the 79 mins.

The knock on was a definite 50/50, if you're an Exeter fan it was the right call, if you're a Tigers fan then not so much.

yappysnap wrote:Yea great run, absolutely bamboozled his opposite number who ends up just standing their as he goes past him. Shame most games he does so little for the 79 mins.

The knock on was a definite 50/50, if you're an Exeter fan it was the right call, if you're a Tigers fan then not so much.

Yeah completely agree with you

From the side angle I thought he lost it - although for my superbru prediction it would have been better if it was given ...

Thompstone showed some good form end of last season and has started well this season. One of our best players yesterday, his effect on the game was noticeable and when your opposite number is pulled off so you can be marked by a more defensive player you know you're doing something right. There's a lot of competition in our back three at the minute and it looks like he's worked on his pace over the summer.

Mauger comes in and we have the likes of Smith and Thompstone improving and in form. Looking forward to seeing what he can get from Manu!

Yappy I agree on the Thompstone try it was 50/50. I thought he grounded it off the leg before losing control as there's no evidence of daylight between hand and ball.

George, Chiefs are a quality outfit and were last year as well. They're a little short of firepower in the back three but otherwise are up there with the main contenders.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:It looks like it's Falcons v Irish to see who can go down at this early stage. Seems like we've been here before lads....

I was at the match yesterday and Newcastle looked like a different team in the second half and were very difficult for Wuss to break down. For me it's too early to feel that Worcester are anything like out of the dogfight at the bottom yet but I am impressed with the start that's been made. It's just a start though.

I feel for you though Sgt, it's so depressing when your team is not firing.

Exeter defo look like contenders for me, keen to see if they can make an impact in Europe this season. Nowell looks a class act, really impressed with him.

Thought shorts positioning was poor for the thompstone effort, should never have allowed the space down the touchline especially considering there was loads of support on the inside.

And clearly Knocked on.

I think Short was trying to cut off any pass back inside and the backing his pace on the outside. Thompstone isn't known for his footwork so he wouldn't expect that bit of tidy footwork to stand him up and then go. It's a good cover tackle by Short in the end. Really unlucky for Thompstone.

Kickers have to be faster with their conversions. Once the conversion is taken there's no going back.

Exeter looked good, but considering who tigers were missing i expected them to do better TBF.

Tigers have to come back/rested
1) Ayerza, 2) Ghilrandini, 3) Logo, 4) Slater, 5) Kitchener, 6) Williams, 7) O'connor, 8) Fonua
9) Harrison, 10) Burns, 11) Morris, 12) JDV, 13) Manu, 14) Camacho, 15) Bell

They can only play what is in front of them but I thought they would have kicked on, Will be interesting to see what happens to them come 6N's

When they will most likely lose Cowan-Dickie, Slade, Nowell and maybe Ewers. whilst have excellent replacements in Yeandle, Hill and Waldrom they might suffer if they have any further injuries.

 If they can remain to have a relative injury free squad and deal with the 6N's the in a very compressed squad i don't see any reason why they cant go on to win the whole thing.

Baxter though is a coach who i think could handle it all very well.

This new graphic showing gains and losses between phases is really annoying. I wouldn't mind the idea if it was a subtle bar along the bottom of the pitch but this is just distracting.

edit: they seem to have stopped using it already. If I knew I had this kind of power I would've told them to bin Dawson a long time ago.

I like the lineout stats graphic.

Gopperths 3 week ban could be a blessing in disguise for Wasps, really don't rate him!

Agree Yappy, the Wasps fans were by far the most vocal in calling for him to be banned and most of them seemed to want it to force Dai to go for Jackson or Loz. One even said that the Wasps management should report the tackle to the citing officer if it was missed

Gopperth with that back line is a waste. Also any excuse not to have Jackson at full back is also a good thing.

Gloucester playing like it's a training session.

Hughes is some player. So aggressive in defence and attack

Stadium doesn't look very full today

Oooof, looks nasty. Although the wasps player did dip

Can't complain with that to be honest

36 seems to be just taking space away from the glos attack

Touch unlucky on the red as Davies does dip a bit. Having said that if you're going that high then you can't be surprised if you land yourself in bother.

Gloucester look pretty awful. No cohesion or game management.

I'm actually glad 36 decided to leave tigers, he just hasn't developed into the player many thought would

36 played better when he was with Tigers IMO.

He would at least look to pass alot more (Ironically enough).

Maybe because @ Tigers he wasn't one of the heaviest backs and not a direct ball carrier really which seems to be the case @ Glous.

Hmm , no release there by Haskell either

formerly known as Sam wrote:Touch unlucky on the red as Davies does dip a bit. Having said that if you're going that high then you can't be surprised if you land yourself in bother.

Gloucester look pretty awful. No cohesion or game management.

The ref from LI v Bath should be made to explain why he didn't red Devoto yesterday for his late/high/no arms/cynical 'challenge' ...

Hughes, Kvesic and Hughes have been very impressive, potential England backrow?

I don't think the Devoto challenge desevered red tbh Heaf.

We really needed Bristow for this season.

I would have thought changing direction to shoulder barge someone in the face would qualify?

I thought yellow was pretty fair, it was cynical.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes, Kvesic and Hughes have been very impressive, potential England backrow?

He's good but even so probably can't play 6 and 8!

Sorry I don't follow - how can cynically smashing someone in the face not be red? How was the Glaws one red but not Devoto's?

yappysnap wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hughes, Kvesic and Hughes have been very impressive, potential England backrow?

He's good but even so probably can't play 6 and 8!

Haha, I meant Haskell

Heaf wrote:Sorry I don't follow - how can cynically smashing someone in the face not be red?  How was the Glaws one red but not Devoto's?

I only seen it the once but it didn't look to be in the face. It looked to be just a shoulder charge. I may be wrong but it didn't look to anywhere near as bad as the tackle today.

Silly by the Italian at the end there as well, I count 3 attempted punches by him in that ruck, very silly with the game won and less then 10 mins to go!

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Heaf wrote:Sorry I don't follow - how can cynically smashing someone in the face not be red?  How was the Glaws one red but not Devoto's?

I only seen it the once but it didn't look to be in the face. It looked to be just a shoulder charge. I may be wrong but it didn't look to anywhere near as bad as the tackle today.

Take another look Sgt - it was like an upper cut to the jaw with his shoulder and 100% deliberate - red all day long for me.

The sooner I forget that the better. We were atrocious, no running lines or cohesion. The ref was truly awful but that doesn't take away from a deserved Wasps win. Perhaps we should start with 14 next week?

HongKongCherry wrote:The  sooner I forget that the better. We were atrocious, no running lines or cohesion. The ref was truly awful but that doesn't take away from a deserved Wasps win. Perhaps we should start with 14 next week?

What is going on at Gloucester HKC? This is the 2nd or 3rd season where the team seems far worse then the sum of its parts.

Watching them today gave me flashbacks to Harlequins of last season, and trust me you do not want that! I thought I'd suppressed those memories...

I have no idea yappy. Our backs have lost all incisive ability and are just lateral. It doesn't help with the changes we've had at half back and centre, but there really is no excuse for that performance. The only positive element is that the forwards largely look better and Kvesic was outstanding today.

No idea how Cittadini is sent but with the Farrell incident the penalty isn't even reversed.