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Welsh rugby regions raise player salary cap by £1m

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Post by LordDowlais Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:44 pm

First topic message reminder :

The four Welsh rugby regions have raised the amount they can spend on players' wages by £1m to £4.5m.

In December 2011 the regions - Cardiff Blues, Dragons, Ospreys and Scarlets - imposed a salary cap of £3.5m a year when all four were posting losses.

The rise reflects improved finances, with extra money from Europe and a new deal with the Welsh Rugby Union.

Pro Rugby Wales declined to comment, but it is understood the decision was mutually agreed after a review.

It is hoped the extra cash will help the regions retain star players and potentially bring more "Welsh exiles" home.

Leigh Halfpenny, Jonathan Davies, George North and Luke Charteris are thought to be considering returning to Wales next season.

The Ospreys are hoping Dan Biggar and Alun Wyn Jones will agree to extend their current National Dual Contracts.

However, the regions - represented by Pro Rugby Wales - are expected to make building squad depth a priority, and not necessarily spend big figures on marquee signings.

The new ceiling - which is self-imposed - is still some way below that of England's Aviva Premiership.

Premiership Rugby Limited - the umbrella body that governs England's Premiership clubs - announced in October they would be raising their cap next season from £5.1m to £6.5m, and to £7m the season after that.

These figures exclude the salaries of two so-called "marquee signings" that remain outside the cap.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:There's no better TH than Harris in the prem. If there was we would have found him. Not sure there's a scrum half capable of playing for the All Blacks in the prem either.

Ok I will take your point on the TH. But Ospreys did not need another retiring scrum half at the time, they already have three/four younger scrum halfs on their books.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:13 pm

Right, so let's say we can name 20, maybe 25 overseas flops in the 10-year-plus history of regional rugby. I'm sure there were 20 - 25 equally mediocre Welsh players who could have played instead of them, but that's hardly an argument in favour of all-Welsh regional sides. A poor player is a poor player. I don't believe there's a group of potential home-grown world-beaters we've missed out on because of these 'masses' of foreign duds.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:39 pm

Not sure there's even 20 is there?

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Post by GavinDragon Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:41 pm

How about we just improve the standard of our development pathway so that there are more, better players coming throught?

And the Dragons centre was Paul Emerick

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:45 pm

GavinDragon wrote:How about we just improve the standard of our development pathway so that there are more, better players coming throught?

And the Dragons centre was Paul Emerick

Thank you, I was thinking Hal Emerick, but that's Otacon from MGS.
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Post by GavinDragon Wed Nov 11, 2015 9:48 pm

he wasn't a bad player in fairness - we have had far worse over the years. But tbh on par with Tom Riley who succeeded him but now plays with Cornish Pirates

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:03 pm

I think poor NWQ players stay in the mind better. Yannick N'Gog played a few mins of one game for the Scarlets but I will always remember his name, where as we have had numerous players play in the LV= for a few mins and never play again, but I couldn't tell you their names because I knew they were just 'semi-pro' players getting a run out as a trial.
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Post by wayne Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:20 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Chancey O'Toole

OMG, yes there's another one. Laugh
I think this is stretching things a bit, we signed him after he had been with Glasgow Warriors as an emergency signing for injury cover, he was then named in the Canadian WC squad, as soon as we signed him, we loaned him out to one of our feeder clubs Bridgend Ravens, he played for us 5 times I presume all or nearly all as sub, we did the same with another player around the same time but loaned him to Swansea, some come off others don't, this second players name is Hanno Dirksen, he is now WQ, if it wasn't for a serious knee injury I think we would be talking about a Welsh International.

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Post by wayne Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:25 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's no better TH than Harris in the prem. If there was we would have found him. Not sure there's a scrum half capable of playing for the All Blacks in the prem either.

Ok I will take your point on the TH. But Ospreys did not need another retiring scrum half at the time, they already have three/four younger scrum halfs on their books.
Who?

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:31 pm

GavinDragon wrote:How about we just improve the standard of our development pathway so that there are more, better players coming throught?

And the Dragons centre was Paul Emerick


Yes I agree, we must improve the standard of our development, although I do feel it is getting better, as the regions are proving with the youngsters they are playing. Also Paul Emerick,thanks I was racking my brain trying to think of his name.

And Scarlet, N'Gog, yes I remember complaining about that signing when it happened, didn't Scarlets send scouts out to France to find young players who could potentially represent Wales ? Laugh

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:36 pm

wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's no better TH than Harris in the prem. If there was we would have found him. Not sure there's a scrum half capable of playing for the All Blacks in the prem either.

Ok I will take your point on the TH. But Ospreys did not need another retiring scrum half at the time, they already have three/four younger scrum halfs on their books.
Who?


Webb, Roberts, Habberfield and Grabham.

If it were not for players like Tito Tibaldi, and Kahn box kick Fa'Tuali, then Rhys Webb would have been a Wales player sooner, I remember Webb playing out in Munster in his young twenties, he was awesome, but the preference of NWQ scrum halves stunted his progress.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:38 pm

LordDowlais wrote:N'Gog, yes I remember complaining about that signing when it happened, didn't Scarlets send scouts out to France to find young players who could potentially represent Wales ? Laugh

I honestly don't know about that, but it sounds like the sort of thing we used to do believing it was showing signs of professionalism.
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Post by BuzzScarlet Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:40 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So bad you've wiped their names from your memory.

Not so much wiped, just plain forgot about them.

Oh just remembered another, Duncan Hodge. The forward who played for Scarlets.

Do you mean Dave Hodges?

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:44 pm

BuzzScarlet wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:So bad you've wiped their names from your memory.

Not so much wiped, just plain forgot about them.

Oh just remembered another, Duncan Hodge. The forward who played for Scarlets.

Do you mean Dave Hodges?


If he is the front rower, then yes that's him. thumbsup

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Post by BuzzScarlet Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:46 pm

Nah, Dave was a back row player. He was a great player to be fair. Duncan Hodge? We've had our fair share of Poopie front rowers I must have blocked him out!

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:48 pm

BuzzScarlet wrote:Nah, Dave was a back row player. He was a great player to be fair. Duncan Hodge? We've had our fair share of Poopie front rowers I must have blocked him out!

He was American. Out of shape with thick black hair.

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Post by BuzzScarlet Wed Nov 11, 2015 10:55 pm

Can't ever remember us having an American prop. Scarlet SpiderMan do you remember him?

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:09 pm

To be honest I've been wracking my brain.  I can't think of one (didn't we have Theil, but he was good).  We had some Kiwi that had one or two caps (I want to say Hewitt or something), the same time as we signed Manu.  And Bruce Douglas, the ex Scottish international.  They were both exceptionally bad, worse than Meeuws or Ben Broster, which is saying something.


Last edited by ScarletSpiderman on Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Got wrong name for kiwi prop)
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Post by wayne Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There's no better TH than Harris in the prem. If there was we would have found him. Not sure there's a scrum half capable of playing for the All Blacks in the prem either.

Ok I will take your point on the TH. But Ospreys did not need another retiring scrum half at the time, they already have three/four younger scrum halfs on their books.
Who?


Webb, Roberts, Habberfield and Grabham.

If it were not for players like Tito Tibaldi, and Kahn box kick Fa'Tuali, then Rhys Webb would have been a Wales player sooner, I remember Webb playing out in Munster in his young twenties, he was awesome, but the preference of NWQ scrum halves stunted his progress.
You are really showing your ignorance of S/H play if you think Roberts is anywhere near their standard, Leonard and Fotualii are far superior S/Hs to him, and Roberts joined after Khan left, Rhys Webb cost us a play off place a few seasons ago with his petulance in Home games against Ulster and Glasgow, yes he has come good, but to suggest he was as good as Khan at that time is ludicrous, we signed Tebaldi after that season because of his performances the previous season, how many times do I have to tell you Tom Grabham is classed as a winger for us. (After doing a bit of research he has been on the bench as a scrum half a few times but only as a total emergency) Habbers is playing well and when Rhys comes back it will be a tight call between him and Leonard, FYI Leonard was purchased as cover when Rhys is away and thank f..k for that, as we would have gone into this season with Habbers and Roberts up to now, and can you imagine what Exeter and Clermont would do with Roberts. Finally NWQ scrum halves didn't stunt Rhys's appearances for Wales, it was some bad injuries and his own play that stopped him.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:13 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Nah, Dave was a back row player. He was a great player to be fair. Duncan Hodge? We've had our fair share of Poopie front rowers I must have blocked him out!

He was American. Out of shape with thick black hair.

Sounds like Elvis. Thank you very much.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:15 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Nah, Dave was a back row player. He was a great player to be fair. Duncan Hodge? We've had our fair share of Poopie front rowers I must have blocked him out!

He was American. Out of shape with thick black hair.

Sounds like Elvis. Thank you very much.

No, Elvis (Seviali'i) was a centre at the Ospreys, and an islander, not American Run
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Post by Cardiff Dave Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:22 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Nah, Dave was a back row player. He was a great player to be fair. Duncan Hodge? We've had our fair share of Poopie front rowers I must have blocked him out!

He was American. Out of shape with thick black hair.

Sounds like Elvis. Thank you very much.

No, Elvis (Seviali'i) was a centre at the Ospreys, and an islander, not American Run

You're the devil in disguise mate.
Anyway, do Tuculet and Amorosino count as Americans in this debate?

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:25 pm

Ooh and Tomos Vallejos-Cinalli
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Post by BuzzScarlet Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:25 pm

John Theil was a Canadian prop I think. Yeah Dave Hewitt was the nz prop, he was garbage for us to be fair but I still have no clue who this american prop was!

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Post by BuzzScarlet Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:27 pm

Gavin Cattle
Iongi
Con Barrel
Hottie Lowe
Dave Duley

The list goes on.........

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:40 pm

BuzzScarlet wrote:John Theil was a Canadian prop I think. Yeah Dave Hewitt was the nz prop, he was garbage for us to be fair but I still have no clue who this american prop was!

Buzz it is probably me who is wrong and you who is right, he was American and his name was Hodge/Hodges. I remember being at Stradey Park watching a HC game and he scored the winning try right at the death, I think it was against Sale.

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Post by LordDowlais Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:42 pm

BuzzScarlet wrote:Gavin Cattle
Iongi
Con Barrel
Hottie Lowe
Dave Duley

The list goes on.........


Yep the list dos go on doesn't it. We have signed some howlers over the years. Erm

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Post by GavinDragon Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:50 pm

Nigel Castle

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed Nov 11, 2015 11:57 pm

Just to show how far we have progressed recently

https://www.606v2.com/t36783p50-niq-v-nwq

NWQ

1) Campese Ma'Afu, 2) Andy Kyriacou, 3) Jacobia Adriaanse
4) Tomas Vallejos, 5) Johan Snyman
6) Robin Copeland, 8) George Stowers, 7) Andries Pretoirous
9) Joe Bedford, 10) Kahn Fotuali'i
11) Hanno Dirksen, 12) Andy Tuilagi, 13) ???, 14) Tonderai Chavanga
15) Jamie Smith


Pretty sure if we did one now it would be far superior
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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:19 am

Mosese Luveitasau rings a bell.

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Post by Chunky Norwich Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:43 am

LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:John Theil was a Canadian prop I think. Yeah Dave Hewitt was the nz prop, he was garbage for us to be fair but I still have no clue who this american prop was!

Buzz it is probably me who is wrong and you who is right, he was American and his name was Hodge/Hodges. I remember being at Stradey Park watching a HC game and he scored the winning try right at the death, I think it was against Sale.

Dave Hodges still ranks among the greatest ever Llanelli / Scarlets overseas signings. He was immense at lock or 6. A truly terrific player for us for about 3 seasons.

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Post by wayne Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:52 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Just to show how far we have progressed recently

https://www.606v2.com/t36783p50-niq-v-nwq

NWQ

1) Campese Ma'Afu, 2) Andy Kyriacou, 3) Jacobia Adriaanse
4) Tomas Vallejos, 5) Johan Snyman
6) Robin Copeland, 8) George Stowers, 7) Andries Pretoirous
9) Joe Bedford, 10) Kahn Fotuali'i
11) Hanno Dirksen, 12) Andy Tuilagi, 13) ???, 14) Tonderai Chavanga
15) Jamie Smith


Pretty sure if we did one now it would be far superior
If he wasn't then, it wasn't long afterwards that Dirksen was WQ.
ATM we have 8 players on our books who cannot play for wales now, yet 3 of which can in the future, CANNOT Tyler Ardron, Dmitri Arhip, Jeff Hassler, Brendon Leonard and Josh Matavesi. Can  Rynier Bernardo, Ma'afu Fia, and Sam Underhill because Sam is an English U18 Captain in the recent past it is unlikely he would opt for Wales.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:55 am

I forgot underhill on my list earlier. D'oh
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Post by wayne Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:01 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:I forgot underhill on my list earlier.  D'oh
That is not hard to do SS, as he is not registered to us, he is placed with the Ravens. How it works I'm not sure, but he is in our squad for the RCC.

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:13 am

LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Gavin Cattle
Iongi
Con Barrel
Hottie Lowe
Dave Duley

The list goes on.........


Yep the list dos go on doesn't it. We have signed some howlers over the years. Erm

How about compiling a list of born and bred Welsh howlers for comparison/balance/context?

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Post by Cardiff Dave Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:16 am

wayne wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:I forgot underhill on my list earlier.  D'oh
That is not hard to do SS, as he is not registered to us, he is placed with the Ravens. How it works I'm not sure, but he is in our squad for the RCC.

The Os own the Ravens don't they?

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Post by wayne Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:24 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
wayne wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:I forgot underhill on my list earlier.  D'oh
That is not hard to do SS, as he is not registered to us, he is placed with the Ravens. How it works I'm not sure, but he is in our squad for the RCC.

The Os own the Ravens don't they?
I think Llandarcy Holdings own both, NOT 100% sure

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Post by wayne Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:34 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Gavin Cattle
Iongi
Con Barrel
Hottie Lowe
Dave Duley

The list goes on.........


Yep the list dos go on doesn't it. We have signed some howlers over the years. Erm

How about compiling a list of born and bred Welsh howlers for comparison/balance/context?
I went through our total players who have signed for us since inception (2003) and even though I didn't start supporting the Os until 2005.We have a lot more WQ howlers, than NWQ howlers and we have a few more of these than have been identified so far.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:10 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
BuzzScarlet wrote:Gavin Cattle
Iongi
Con Barrel
Hottie Lowe
Dave Duley

The list goes on.........


Yep the list dos go on doesn't it. We have signed some howlers over the years. Erm

How about compiling a list of born and bred Welsh howlers for comparison/balance/context?

We'd be here all night - and that would be just listing some of the turds the Dragons have tried to polish over the years.

The other massively salient point Lord Diatribe misses in all this is that the requirement for Welsh players inflates the wages of Welsh players. All other things being equal a NWQ journeyman will cost less than a WQ might be rookie.
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Post by Stone Motif Thu Nov 12, 2015 2:54 am

Just for context here's my all-time journeymen WQ xv from the Dragons. Anyone who can come up with a worse/more comedy NWQ team of NGD Old Boys wins a signed copy of 'C0ck Out' Lyn Jones forthcoming autobiography which will hit bookshelces this Christmas:

Dan Griffiths, Richard Fussell, Tom Cheeseman, Rhodri Gomer-Davies, Jimmy Norris, Ceri Sweeney, Luc Jones, Andy Powell, Jevon Groves, James Lewis,Bryn Griffiths, some bean-pole with the athletisism of a Walking Dead extra and the turning circle of the Ark Royal who appeared in the 60-3 prison shaming Galsgow gave us at home whose name I have blocked out because he was the worst rugby player I've ever seen, Nathan Buck, Huw Gustafson, Patsy Palmer
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Post by Guest Thu Nov 12, 2015 4:03 am

Ian Nimmo was the second row in that game. He was poor, but you have got me thinking of a youngish lad too who was similar to him as well.

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Post by Stone Motif Thu Nov 12, 2015 12:34 pm

Risca Rev wrote:Ian Nimmo was the second row in that game. He was poor, but you have got me thinking of a youngish lad too who was similar to him as well.

Yeah this string of pee was a replacent, can't think of his name but iirc he was a UWIC student?

He made even Ian Nimmo look like Brad Thorne.
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Post by munkian Thu Nov 12, 2015 1:15 pm

Anyone heard any rumors about Ian Evans coming back across the bridge ?
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Post by Guest Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:45 pm

Just googled him. Josh Tyler laughing

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Post by munkian Thu Nov 12, 2015 3:59 pm

Risca Rev wrote:Just googled him. Josh Tyler laughing

Josh Tyler (born 17 December 1990) is a Welsh rugby union player. A Lock forward, he played for UWIC RFC before making his debut for the Welsh regional team Newport Gwent Dragons on 27 January 2012 versus the Ospreys[1] He was released by Newport Gwent Dragons at the end of the 2012-13 season.[2]

I think I must have blanked him out too
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Post by LordDowlais Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:28 pm

munkian wrote:Anyone heard any rumors about Ian Evans coming back across the bridge ?

Yes I have heard this, although I do not know if there was any truth in it, he left Wales under a bit of a cloud after his move to Toulon fell through and he then opted for Bristol rather than staying in Wales.

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Post by munkian Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:31 pm

I'd welcome him at the Dave
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Post by LordDowlais Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:32 pm

munkian wrote:I'd welcome him at the Dave

Isn't he from the Rassau in Ebbw Vale ? He is a Gwent boy after all.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:15 pm

Actually LD, he was born in Johannesburg, like some of those South African locks you hate so much. OK

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Post by Notch Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:31 pm

Good news OK
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