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World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!)

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World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!) - Page 4 Empty World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!)

Post by laverfan Thu 19 Nov 2015, 2:09 am

First topic message reminder :

PDF version - PDF version
Day 6 link - Day 6 link (and it does work!)
Live Scores on the ATP Web Site - ATP Live Scores
Barclays Live Scores - Barclays Live Scores

MoTD : Murray v Wawrinka.


Last edited by laverfan on Fri 20 Nov 2015, 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by laverfan Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:31 am

Josiah Maiestas wrote:
laverfan wrote:
MoTD : Murray v Wawrinka.
Wasn't if you were a Murry fan Laugh

He is closer to gasquets level than the top 5 these days.

He played $$h1t3 vs Nadal and then worse v Wawrinka.

Gasquet, has relatively improved and gotten better. Even Nishikori and Ferrer have been better in the past week.

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Post by summerblues Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:03 am

There is something about countries starting with "S" when it comes to tennis.  Four out of top five players in the world (and all four semifinalists here) are from such countries.  And even the fifth one could still end up in that company.

Must be Borg's fault.

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Post by summerblues Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:18 am

socal1976 wrote:Novak now hasn't looked right in the last two matches
I did not see those matches, but I would not be too worried if I were you unless there were something more specifically obvious than just apparent difficulty with serves.  Djokovic annihilated Nishikori and then played as well as he needed to.  My guess is that he probably gave it a reasonably good try in the first set against Roger but once he lost that, he was not too bothered - he knew he would make the SF regardless.  In the match against Berdych he only needed to win one set while he knew full well that he could sleepwalk his way into winning the match - so again why bother?

I expect him to be as good as new tomorrow and Sunday.

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Post by Haddie-nuff Sat 21 Nov 2015, 6:36 am

Being "not too bothered" can be a foolhardy way to think even if you are miles ahead of the rest of the field and not a mindset I would suggest is the right attitude for the world No  1.  He is where he is because he has been constantly aware how easy it is to fall from a great height..
Rafa learned that lesson.

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Post by Guest Sat 21 Nov 2015, 8:03 am

Murray could do with a few days away from the court. How could one really prepare when mentally his priority is elsewhere. Not just him though, I think sometimes players when they reach the WTF are turned off and are in close season mode.

That said we have 2 matches that could turn out to be fantastic. Interestingly there are some good talking points should either of the 4 remaining players come out victorious this weekend.

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Post by CAS Sat 21 Nov 2015, 9:05 am

The margins are so fine at the top, the others had been practising on this surface a lot leading up to the tournament while Andy was practicing on clay, that must make a difference against the best in the world.

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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 9:44 am

legendkillarV2 wrote:

................................

I think sometimes players when they reach the WTF are turned off and are in close season mode.

That said we have 2 matches that could turn out to be fantastic. Interestingly there are some good talking points should either of the 4 remaining players come out victorious this weekend.

I hear what you say lk BUT the fact remains that the "not too bothered" approach is rarely, if ever, seen in those who possess the mentality to go on to become legends of the game - or have already done so in years past. Haddie-nuff makes a similar point.

And the household names roll call of WTF Champions tells its own story.

Connors ......Borg ......McEnroe .......Lendl ....Agassi ......Sampras ......Federer ......Djokovic

Rafa will go all out today to finally add his own name, and I reckon he has every chance to make it.

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Post by Calder106 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 9:47 am

Murray hasn't had a great record in the WTF. Surprising since it has been in London since 2009 which you would think would suit him. His best effort was probably in 2010 where lost to Rafa in a very good semi. However he rarely seems to play well there.

Fully expect to see him playing well in the DC.

Couple of potentially good matches today. Would expect Novak to get past Rafa. The Roger/Stan match might depend on which Stan turns up but think Roger will get through.

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:03 am

A Fed-Nadal final would be a great end to this year.
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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 10:08 am

Here's hoping for high-quality showings in both SF's.

Despite their still heavily-skewed h2h, I actually see Stan having a good day and going through. We know he has begun to trouble Federer much more in some of their recent clashes. (Fed might well have preferred to meet Murray)

I'm going for Rafa to edge Djokovic AND to then go on to take the title itself.

But all that said, I suspect Djokovic remains the bookies strong favourite. And with very good reason......

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Post by YvonneT Sat 21 Nov 2015, 12:23 pm

summerblues wrote:I may have gotten this wrong, but it looks to me that Andy can finish YE #2 in two ways:

First (more likely, and simpler):  If Federer fails to win WTF, Andy is #2.

Second:  If Fed wins WTF, Andy will be able to overtake Fed in DC, but only if he wins both of his matches and both of them are live matches (dead rubber would not count).
Almost.

If Federer wins the WTF, he'll be on 95 points ahead.

Murray can get the following from DC:
0 points - for no wins
75 points - one singles live rubber win but losing final overall
150 points - one singles live rubber win plus winning final overall (75 for the win plus 75 bonus points)
275 points - two singles live rubber wins (75 for each win plus 125 bonus points)

I think that's right anyway - taken from here http://www.daviscup.com/en/rankings/atp-ranking-points.aspx

If Murray wins the first singles, the only way the second can be a dead rubber is if GB have won anyway. But of course the second could be live and he loses - I would suspect in that case, whether he was YE no 2 or 3 would be the least of his problems.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Nov 2015, 12:58 pm

If Nadal can't defeat an exhausted Djokovic (who has a baby crying all hours of the night) then it really is time for him to take a sabbatical from the sport.

Should win this here in 2 sets.
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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 1:11 pm

What sabbatical?

Nadal is a part-time player for last 4-5 years, never had a fully fit year Laugh
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Post by kingraf Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:14 pm

Nadal's sister is hot
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Post by kingraf Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:24 pm

Nadal's on a hiding to nothing here
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Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:37 pm

Already looks a better player than the rr. Be a tough ask

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Post by summerblues Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:51 pm

Very uneventful first set.  Rafa will need to play much better in the second if he wants to make the match of it.

Novak broke easily early on and after that he just comfortably cruised without having to get out of the second gear really.

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Post by bogbrush Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:52 pm

So the myth that Djokovic was injured or jaded is done.

Rafa forehand defects starting to re-emerge.
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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:52 pm

Come on Rafa, wake the F up, you can do it.
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Post by summerblues Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:54 pm

bogbrush wrote:So the myth that Djokovic was injured or jaded is done.
Indeed.  Of course he is fine; I cannot believe people were reading so much into his RR match performances.

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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:55 pm

Well this is a bold & confident prediction if ever I saw one :

The SteveG tennis website - which does carry a wealth of (normally) reliable data - already lists Rafa as the winner of this current match, with the actual score shown as 'upcoming'

http://www.stevegtennis.com/head-to-head/men/Novak_Djokovic/Rafael_Nadal/

Hmm. We shall see !!

Just the two sets needed then Rafa. (and if the old man can do it three times this season, then surely you can too !)

Djokovic looking absolutely at his sharpest today Wink

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:57 pm

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:So the myth that Djokovic was injured or jaded is done.
Indeed.  Of course he is fine; I cannot believe people were reading so much into his RR match performances.

They were not reading into his matches, just creating potential excuse for his SF/F loss.

Wife talk.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Nov 2015, 2:59 pm

Beating Andy and Stan made Nadal fans think he was a legit favourite for this match when in fact both we're very bad.
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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:00 pm

...and while Kingraf is after Nadals sister, where is Nadal's GF?

Not seen her 1-2 times all 2015, Rafa can't afford her tickets or she is having doubts over Rafa's knees and complains from him with certain kneeling positions? Laugh
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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:01 pm

summerblues wrote:
bogbrush wrote:So the myth that Djokovic was injured or jaded is done.
Indeed.  Of course he is fine; I cannot believe people were reading so much into his RR match performances.


Perhaps they had a particular, personal, reason for doing so ...... chin

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:05 pm

Josiah Maiestas wrote:Beating Andy and Stan made Nadal fans think he was a legit favourite for this match when in fact both we're very bad.

I think it was lags72, spreading rumors just a few hours ago that he sees Nadal wining this Laugh
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Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:08 pm

Excuses from all sides already? It's not even the final yet... Novak looks like he's upped a gear from rr... Is that actually a surprise to anybody?

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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:10 pm

Ha ha ok, I better fess up Jahu Cool

But this is ain't quite done yet (is it ....??)

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:11 pm

Nadal is wasted, UE galore, not even able to pass the net.

Take a set at least, for the sake of all the taxes you paid in Spain, compared to this big ear ugly tax-avoding cheat Laugh
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Post by bogbrush Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:12 pm

temporary21 wrote:Excuses from all sides already? It's not even the final yet... Novak looks like he's upped a gear from rr... Is that actually a surprise to anybody?
I don't think he's any better. Quite wasteful actually.

That couldn't be you making excuses could it?


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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:13 pm

lags, sure sure, but Djoko a break up and can't see how Nadal can get this even to a TB.

He looks off totally, not that Djoko is anything special.
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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:13 pm

Ok. Maybe it is done now.

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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:14 pm

It is so funny watching Nadal have no clue how to beat the weakest of Novak in 2015.
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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:15 pm

I don't agree that Rafa looks "totally off".

Not by any means.

What I do know is that he wasn't facing Mr Djokovic in his previous rounds.

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Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:15 pm

He looks sharper to me. What's with all the blaming and accusing going about? Isn't just watching the tennis enough? I hope he's better because we need a gold match this wtf. Rafas not there yet to do it

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:16 pm

You watch them 2 today, and Djoko looks like the most attacking player on planet as Nadal moving like he has a hangover.
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Post by Josiah Maiestas Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:17 pm

Djokovic far from his best > Nadal at his max

The other semi will be fun.
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Post by bogbrush Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:18 pm

All the groundstroke defects coming back out now.
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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:18 pm

lags72 wrote:I don't agree that Rafa looks "totally off".

Not by any means.

What I do know is that he wasn't facing Mr Djokovic in his previous rounds.
Nadal can not hit the ball over the net man, not even when he is at the net, no power.

Yeah Nadal looked good against Andy and and Stan, maybe this is all Nadal can do currently 1-2 good matches, then out of steam.
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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:20 pm

For Nadal fans, this is same as Fed-Robredo USO, totally painful Smile
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Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:21 pm

Novaks serve is way more effective now. One two punching like rod rodbrick

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Post by laverfan Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:21 pm

Nadal's FH seems to need much more time to be lethal. Djokovic is happy breaking it down, with relentless ruthlessness. Expected a better match from Nadal.

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Post by Guest Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:23 pm

lags72 wrote:
legendkillarV2 wrote:

................................

I think sometimes players when they reach the WTF are turned off and are in close season mode.

That said we have 2 matches that could turn out to be fantastic. Interestingly there are some good talking points should either of the 4 remaining players come out victorious this weekend.

I hear what you say lk BUT the fact remains that the "not too bothered" approach is rarely, if ever, seen in those who possess the mentality to go on to become legends of the game - or have already done so in years past. Haddie-nuff makes a similar point.

And the household names roll call of WTF Champions tells its own story.

Connors ......Borg ......McEnroe .......Lendl ....Agassi ......Sampras ......Federer ......Djokovic

Rafa will go all out today to finally add his own name, and I reckon he has every chance to make it.

You are quoting the winners my friend.

Look at case in point Raonic last year. Lost to Federer and Murray and pulls out before his 3rd match? Not striking me as the "can do" attitude. You have to look at the players not cleaning up the major titles element and wonder how they feel going into a tournament with players who have had their numbers all season?

Can't say it's a prospect many look forward going into.

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Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:26 pm

Maybe they're just content? They make good money, they probably don't beleive they can beat them, but it's good enough. Can't be an easy decision to nearly kill yourself to get to that level

Dasco did it for one year, had good results then just fell off again. Takes a special personality to be the best I suppose

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Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:28 pm

oh ffs Nadal, what kind of UE's, horror.
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Post by kingraf Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:30 pm

So competitive without actually competing is where we'd class Rafa today?
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Post by bogbrush Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:31 pm

This is not a good match.
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Post by lags72 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:32 pm

laverfan - I too expected more from Nadal after the last few weeks he's been having.

But Djoko is a master at moving him around, which in turn takes time away from him.

A pretty potent combination.

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World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!) - Page 4 Empty Re: World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!)

Post by Jahu Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:35 pm

Djoko wins. 

Nadal a total disappoint.
Jahu
Jahu

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World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!) - Page 4 Empty Re: World Tour Finals (WTF!) 2015 - Day 6 (was Day 5!)

Post by temporary21 Sat 21 Nov 2015, 3:36 pm

Oh that's tsking the p@ss. Great stuff. Only three blokes have hurt novak in a match that counts this year, none of whom have done it with any consistency. Cruel to judge a much better nadal against that

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