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3 hole Backyard course

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Roller_Coaster
George1507
puligny
JAS
golfermartin
raycastleunited
navyblueshorts
I'm never wrong
hend085
pedro
lorus59
Bob_the_Job
super_realist
kwinigolfer
McLaren
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Post by McLaren Mon Nov 23, 2015 11:05 pm

As poated by Pedro in another thread, Bale is building "replicas of Augusta National's 11th hole, "White Dogwood," TPC Sawgrass' iconic 17th island green, and the short Postage Stamp eighth hole at Royal Troon" in his back yard.  http://www.golfchannel.com/news/grill-room/soccer-star-build-replicas-iconic-golf-holes-backyard/


If you could build 3 replica holes in your garden what would they be?
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:30 am

1). 8th at Pebble Beach.
2). 16th at Cypress Point.
3). 18th at Pebble Beach.

Do I get the Pacific for free?

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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 6:55 am

Bet  yours would all be TOC Mac?

I'd perhaps have `17 in there, nothing else.


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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:59 am

What else would you have super?
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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:17 am

Might have 18 at Leven, perhaps the finest finishing hole I've ever played.
Also 12th at Kingsbarns, just limiting it to courses i've played.

What about you Mac, never one to divulge things are you?

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 8:59 am

I am still thinking about it. Will post my choices soon.
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Post by Bob_the_Job Tue Nov 24, 2015 9:13 am

Par 3: 17th at Pebble Beach
Par 4: 11th at RCD
Par 5: 9th at PGA Centenary Gleneagles

Rory used to live along the road from me and he had a really interesting set up - 3 greens (reputedly of difference grasses) and a range of tee boxes so each green could be played from different angles as a par 3 or par 4
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Post by lorus59 Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:12 am

If these three holes are going to be in your own backyard, then would they be three classic challenging holes that you might find very difficult every time you play, or ones that suit your own strengths (if you have any)?

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Post by pedro Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:22 am

If I had 17th at Sawgrass in my back yard I don't know what would be more expensive: 1) Actually building it, or 2) continuously buying new golf balls.

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Post by hend085 Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:06 pm

par 3 12th in portmarnock.
par 4 11th in Augusta.
par 5 15th in Augusta.

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:24 pm

To stop Super going of the deep end, here is my non-TOC list.  All par 3's.

15th North Berwick (maybe with a back tee to make it a short par 4)
Spoiler:

Spoiler:


7th Barnbougle Dunes
Spoiler:

Short but stunning, and your bunker play would become supreme with repeated plays of this hole.  


6th painswick (again with the possibility of a back tee)
Spoiler:

Possibly my favourite par 3 ever!




I would of course take any 3 holes from TOC due to the unrivaled terrain and interest around the greens but in the absence of any TOC replicas I would build the ladies putting green in the middle of my backyard course.  If anything an amazing practice putting/short game green would be more fun than full holes in your own garden.
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Post by I'm never wrong Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:39 pm

My holes and the reasons.

14th Hole East Course Wentworth. (Downhill almost driveable par 4)
5th Hole Pitlochry. (Totally blind shot to raised green)
18th Carnoustie. Cos I birdied it.

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 12:43 pm

Kwini

I guess if you can afford to create the course you can probably afford a plot of land somewhere along the pacific coast.   You have picked some pretty tough holes, you wouldn't be playing some of then too well after a few beers.  The 8th at pebble would be a 3 shotter for most I reckon.  


Super

You are missing a hole.  They are two good choices but lets have your third.



Bob

Like Kwini it seems you want a real challenge given your first two choices.  Is it just me or could more fun be had on the pebbles 17th if you played it from about 150 yards.  The green is just so narrow otherwise?

Spoiler:


Does the 9th at Gleneagles ryder cup course hold some significance from the Ryder cup as I really didn't enjoy playing that course at all.  Did you not enjoy some of the holes in the kings or queens course a lot more than this one?


hend

I am not familiar with portmarnock could you describe the 12th hole for us?
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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:01 pm

Mac, How can you say you'd take "any" 3 holes from TOC? 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15,16 and 18 are nothing short of average. 8,9 and 10 are probably the most boring and drama free holes in the history of major golf

As for "interest" around the greens, 1,4,5,6,8,9,10 and 15 have NO interest around the greens, whilst the greens themselves are not interesting either.

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Post by Bob_the_Job Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:02 pm

McLaren wrote:
Bob

Does the 9th at Gleneagles ryder cup course hold some significance from the Ryder cup as I really didn't enjoy playing that course at all.  Did you not enjoy some of the holes in the kings or queens course a lot more than this one?

Not really Mac - I didn't play it that well and in fact birdied two other holes on the back 9.  I liked the course in general although I didn't think it that special.  However, I really liked this hole off the back tee - I found the tee shot really made me think about placing it for the second (as I knew I couldn't get up in 2), I liked the way you walked out through the gap between the mounds and the hole opened up and the water on the right of the green became visible, I liked the bunkering well short of the green in the fairway that made me think long and hard about the second shot and I thought the green was one of the best on the course.  All in all I picked it because it stuck in my head for good reasons.

Never played Kings or Queens - on the To Do list as I've heard very good things about them.
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Post by kwinigolfer Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:05 pm

Mac,
I have a 7 and a par on PB's 8th.
But I didn't pick them for the golf, I chose them for being the best Ocean-crossing holes I can think of. Screw the golf, my golf anyway.
If I wanted just three classic holes in my backyard to play golf, I'd just buy a struggling golf course, I can think of a few candidates, and remodel appropriately.

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Post by navyblueshorts Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:07 pm

Not sure what I'd try. Maybe:

13th at ANGC - dogleg, canted fairway, creek (go for it or lay up?) and tough green.
16th at Cypress Point - what's not to like?
18th at Hollinwell - sentimental choice as played it a lot. Gorgeous par 4 off elevated tee towards clubhouse and damned tough.
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Post by raycastleunited Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:29 pm

I think there is an error here, I bet it is the 12th at Augusta that Bale wants to build. Building the 11th would be ridiculous, whereas building the 12th is perfectly sensible.... haha!

I have played Northwick Park in Harrow, which has replicas of the 12th and 16th at Augusta. They work surprisingly well and have nice touches like using the white sand which creates so much of the visual identify of Augusta. They also have replicas of the 12th at Birkdale and the 8th postage stamp at Troon, so 2 out of Bale's dream trio. I guess a lot of it is down to the investment up front to build tour quality greens.

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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:34 pm

Not like a footballer to lack imagination eh?

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:42 pm

super

At least he could think of three holes, so far you have only managed two.
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Post by golfermartin Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:50 pm

Super has picked 3 - 17th at TOC, 18 at Leven and 12th at Kingsbarns. Just not all in one post


Last edited by golfermartin on Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Typing error)

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 1:52 pm

He said perhaps, that is hardly confirmation that it forms part of his final 3.
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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 2:56 pm

McLaren wrote:He said perhaps, that is hardly confirmation that it forms part of his final 3.

Can we have holes which have been amended?

If so I'll have 18 at Wentworth pre Ernie.

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Post by pedro Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:01 pm

super_realist wrote:
If so I'll have 18 at Wentworth pre Ernie.
I'm sure somebody will pick something pre-Trump as well, just to make a statement. laughing

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:02 pm

Why not, you are building it so build what you want. The idea of building a vintage version of holes does make some of Augusta's holes very tempting.

Did you ever play the pre Ernie wentworth?
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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:03 pm

No, I never played it. I probably shouldn't limit myself to what I've played, no one else has.

I'd like to play some of Stoke Park's holes in the Goldfinger era.

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Post by I'm never wrong Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:05 pm

super_realist wrote: I probably shouldn't limit myself to what I've played, no one else has.

Oi!
Oi!
Oi!

I have.

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Post by McLaren Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:15 pm

I know you needn't have played the course to list it, but I just wondered if you had played it. Unfortunately you will have to build that hole if you want to play it now.

I assume you have played kingsbarnes and leven given how close they are to you?


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Post by super_realist Tue Nov 24, 2015 3:17 pm

Played them many times Mac.

Leven has become a bit of a muni, but it's got some great holes on it.

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Post by JAS Tue Nov 24, 2015 11:13 pm

I'd go for the 17th at Carnoustie, my par or better/amount of times played ratio is shocking so much practice required.
The 7th at Pebble beach because it would mean I'd have an awesome back garden view
Had to think about the 3rd one and narrow down a big short list but I'd say the 10th on the Prince course at Princeville Hawaii, an almost question mark shaped par 5, so many ways to play it.
Probably need the worlds best agronomist to have rye, fescue, poana & seaside paspalum grasses growing healthy in the same back garden :-p

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Post by puligny Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:51 am

As it's in the backyard I'm going for 3 short holes:
7 at Sherwood Forest - fiendishly bunkered, enough slope on green to make it a challenge without being silly, and even has an alternative green for added interest. Plays a bit downhill, and first view as you crest slight hump at rear of 6 is superb;
15 at Kingston Heath. Favourite course, and this encapsulates everything. Bunkers are deep, plays slightly uphill to narrow(ish) green which is made to look more difficult by the bunkers. Interesting slopes on green with more pin positions than you can shake a stick at!;
6 at New South Wales. Have never played Pebble, but if the views are better than NSW I would be amazed. 6 is the one hole on the course not designed by Dr A Mc, but by the chap he trained. It has an island tee and plays back across the ocean to green on mainland with big right to left swing towards the agua!
Par on any of those feels great.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:51 am

super_realist wrote:No, I never played it. I probably shouldn't limit myself to what I've played, no one else has.

I'd like to play some of Stoke Park's holes in the Goldfinger era.

No you wouldn't. Stoke Park is quite a boring course, style over substance, it only features high up on course rankings because of the history and surroundings. I'd stick with 18 at Leven if I were you - that's a great choice.

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Post by super_realist Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:54 am

raycastleunited wrote:
super_realist wrote:No, I never played it. I probably shouldn't limit myself to what I've played, no one else has.

I'd like to play some of Stoke Park's holes in the Goldfinger era.

No you wouldn't. Stoke Park is quite a boring course, style over substance, it only features high up on course rankings because of the history and surroundings. I'd stick with 18 at Leven if I were you - that's a great choice.

Bit like TOC then?

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Post by McLaren Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:35 am

Super did say that he would like to play the original H.S Colt layout. Which I believe was meant to be pretty good.
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Post by raycastleunited Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:25 pm

I'm limiting my choices to courses I've played.

First is the "achievable in the back yard" trio, ie if I won the lottery:
- 11th at Dundonald, I love short tricky par 3's, I've not played Troon but this is the closest to the postage stamp
- 12th at Augusta (ok I've not played the original just the copy at Northwick Park)
- 7th at Hadley Wood, classic MacKenzie bunkering, beautiful lakeside setting, AND the house which backs on to this hole is currently up for sale on the cheap, so you really can have this hole in your backyard:
http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-36441339.html

Then the "fantasy trio" of ultimate holes:
- 10th at Finca Cortesin, spectacular down hill par 3
- 14th Loch Lomond, I love a short risk/reward par 4
- 18th at Plantation Kapalua, what a view and epic finale

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Post by George1507 Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:27 pm

***1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15,16 and 18 are nothing short of average. 8,9 and 10 are probably the most boring and drama free holes in the history of major golf***

In the 1921 Open, Jock Hutchinson - playing with Bobby Jones - holed in one on the eighth. He then smacked his drive onto the 9th green. It finished inches away from the hole. Some say it lipped out. It would have been the only instance of back to back holes in one in the Open. As it was his eagle eagle burst moved him up the leader board and he eventually tied with Roger Wethered, before winning the playoff. He played the ninth seven times in the week (once in qualifying, then six times in the four rounds and the two playoff rounds) in 20 shots (two twos, four threes, and one four). He drove the green five times, only two others managed it once each all week.

Impressive stuff on a hole that doesn't produce any drama...

I would choose the 15th, 16th and 17th at North Berwick's West Links. I don't know any stretch of holes more interesting and varied. Hard to replicate the Marine Hotel and the town and the wall and the crumpled bedspread-like 17th fairway.

On a summer evening, looking back from the 17th green towards the sun setting over the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere more perfect.

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Post by George1507 Wed Nov 25, 2015 8:11 pm

***1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15,16 and 18 are nothing short of average. 8,9 and 10 are probably the most boring and drama free holes in the history of major golf***

In the 1921 Open, Jock Hutchinson - playing with Bobby Jones - holed in one on the eighth. He then smacked his drive onto the 9th green. It finished inches away from the hole. Some say it lipped out. It would have been the only instance of back to back holes in one in the Open. As it was his eagle eagle burst moved him up the leader board and he eventually tied with Roger Wethered, before winning the playoff. He played the ninth seven times in the week (once in qualifying, then six times in the four rounds and the two playoff rounds) in 20 shots (two twos, four threes, and one four). He drove the green five times, only two others managed it once each all week.

Impressive stuff on a hole that doesn't produce any drama...

I would choose the 15th, 16th and 17th at North Berwick's West Links. I don't know any stretch of holes more interesting and varied. Hard to replicate the Marine Hotel and the town and the wall and the crumpled bedspread-like 17th fairway.

On a summer evening, looking back from the 17th green towards the sun setting over the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere more perfect.

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Post by raycastleunited Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:51 pm

George1507 wrote:
On a summer evening, looking back from the 17th green towards the sun setting over the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere more perfect.

George I love North Berwick too, but a more typical description would be "on a summer evening, squinting through watery eyes in gale force winds from the 17th green towards the dark clouds and heavy rain obscuring the view of the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere colder, even though you are wearing three thermal layers."

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Post by super_realist Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:57 am

George1507 wrote:***1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,14,15,16 and 18 are nothing short of average. 8,9 and 10 are probably the most boring and drama free holes in the history of major golf***

In the 1921 Open, Jock Hutchinson - playing with Bobby Jones - holed in one on the eighth. He then smacked his drive onto the 9th green. It finished inches away from the hole. Some say it lipped out. It would have been the only instance of back to back holes in one in the Open. As it was his eagle eagle burst moved him up the leader board and he eventually tied with Roger Wethered, before winning the playoff. He played the ninth seven times in the week (once in qualifying, then six times in the four rounds and the two playoff rounds) in 20 shots (two twos, four threes, and one four). He drove the green five times, only two others managed it once each all week.

Impressive stuff on a hole that doesn't produce any drama...

I would choose the 15th, 16th and 17th at North Berwick's West Links. I don't know any stretch of holes more interesting and varied. Hard to replicate the Marine Hotel and the town and the wall and the crumpled bedspread-like 17th fairway.

On a summer evening, looking back from the 17th green towards the sun setting over the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere more perfect.

The fact you have to go back nearly 100 years to find a moment of drama on TOC kind of proves my point.

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Post by Roller_Coaster Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:00 am

raycastleunited wrote:
George1507 wrote:
On a summer evening, looking back from the 17th green towards the sun setting over the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere more perfect.

George I love North Berwick too, but a more typical description would be "on a summer evening, squinting through watery eyes in gale force winds from the 17th green towards the dark clouds and heavy rain obscuring the view of the Firth of Forth it is hard to imagine anywhere colder, even though you are wearing three thermal layers."

tee hee

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Post by super_realist Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:05 am

Bit harsh when East Lothian is not much more wet than London and has plenty sunshine too.


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Post by George1507 Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:09 am

Raycastle - that could happen anywhere! North Berwick is about the driest place in Britain, so you must have been unlucky.

Super - in Open Championships, the holes that provide the drama usually come at the end because it's easy to see the effect a birdie or a bogey has on the outcome. And of course, with tv these days, we all remember the amazing shots we see that resulted in someone winning - or losing.

But people have been playing golf for 600 years or more, so tv and the Open are recent additions to the history of golf. Hutchinson won in 1921 because of his mastery of just one hole. Without the eagles and birdies, he would have finished nowhere. And it might have been 1921, but there have only been about 16 Opens at St Andrews since, so it isn't really nearly a hundred years.

All holes on a golf course can cause triumph and disaster, and the 9th on the Old Course is no exception.


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Post by super_realist Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:17 am

George1507 wrote:Raycastle - that could happen anywhere! North Berwick is about the driest place in Britain, so you must have been unlucky.

Super - in Open Championships, the holes that provide the drama usually come at the end because it's easy to see the effect a birdie or a bogey has on the outcome. And of course, with tv these days, we all remember the amazing shots we see that resulted in someone winning - or losing.

But people have been playing golf for 600 years or more, so tv and the Open are recent additions to the history of golf. Hutchinson won in 1921 because of his mastery of just one hole. Without the eagles and birdies, he would have finished nowhere. And it might have been 1921, but there have only been about 16 Opens at St Andrews since, so it isn't really nearly a hundred years.

All holes on a golf course can cause triumph and disaster, and the 9th on the Old Course is no exception.


Again, point proven. IN 17 Open's at TOC, you have to go back to 1921 to highlight "drama", or rather a fluke outcome.
TOC Open's are largely forgettable for being processionary boring victories, and those that have resulted in any sort of drama (Rocca, Sanders) have been down to either an initially fluffed shot (Rocca) or a complete loss of bottle (Sanders), nothing to do with the difficulty of a course or how "interesting" or "challenging" a hole is.


Yes, all holes can provide triumph or disaster, but when it only happens once in every 17 visits to a venue, then it's a safe bet it's not a standout hole.

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Post by McLaren Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:44 am

Super

Why do you place so much value on how the very best pro's play a course when it comes to evaluating how much enjoyment regular players would gain from playing a course?
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Post by super_realist Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:52 am

It's a fair point Mac, my contention was that you'd pick any hole at TOC, I was merely pointing out that so many of the holes have no challenge or interest to them. I used pro's examples of the hole because I realise this is how most will be able to visualise the hole as many will not have played them.

8,9 10 being perfect examples of having nothing around the green, and being very straight forward.

In having the choice from the entire world, to settle for something so unimaginative as 3 of TOC's worst holes on an already drab course makes me wonder what you think is enjoyable about golf

How much enjoyment could you get from holes which A) have little aesthetic appeal, B) very little difficulty to them C)have little around the green to maintain interest. D) require no imagination or shot making.

The 8th is one of the worst par 3's I've ever played, of course, that doesn't stop others enjoying it, but I simply can't see any redeeming features about it which make it memorable or fun.
It's fun in regards to it's fun to play golf anywhere, but as a hole that is supposed to stand out, it simply does nothing for me.
All opinion, but it seems that it's almost sacrilege to criticise the course

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Post by pedro Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:25 am

super, why does a low handicapper like you continue playing TOC then, when I assume you'd have plenty of more interesting alternatives in your area?
As I understand you are not a high handicap hacker so you should more or less be able to play all the courses like the pros do?

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Post by Bob_the_Job Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:13 am

I think the point S_R is making is the TOC is no longer that fantastic from an architecture perspective - which is not the same as saying all the holes are easy all the time.  It's widely acknowledged that it's primary defense is the weather.  I have to say I agree and that opinion is born out by what the professionals say - from recollection I hear lots of "it's amazing to come here to the home of golf".."the history of this place makes it very special" etc., not "it's a brilliant, challenging, interesting, well laid out course".

That said, the thread was "pick your 3 hole backyard course" which is obviously highly subjective, so to say somebody's choices are "wrong" is flawed - one man's meat and all that.
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Post by super_realist Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:42 am

pedro wrote:super, why does a low handicapper like you continue playing TOC then, when I assume you'd have plenty of more interesting alternatives in your area?
As I understand you are not a high handicap hacker so you should more or less be able to play all the courses like the pros do?

It's a good place to get your handicap cut.

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Post by MontysMerkin Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:17 pm

super_realist wrote:
pedro wrote:super, why does a low handicapper like you continue playing TOC then, when I assume you'd have plenty of more interesting alternatives in your area?
As I understand you are not a high handicap hacker so you should more or less be able to play all the courses like the pros do?

It's a good place to get your handicap cut.
How do you think he got a low handicap?
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Post by JAS Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:09 pm

super_realist wrote:
pedro wrote:super, why does a low handicapper like you continue playing TOC then, when I assume you'd have plenty of more interesting alternatives in your area?
As I understand you are not a high handicap hacker so you should more or less be able to play all the courses like the pros do?

It's a good place to get your handicap cut.

Just curious Soops, what's the SSS off the medal tees and what does CSS typically come in at?

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