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Respect for Andy well overdue

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Post by newballs Mon 30 Nov 2015, 1:18 am

First topic message reminder :

I got talking to some muppet in the pub last night who still could not get over that Argentinian shirt incident.

Honestly some people need to get out more. Point being I too have been very vocal in my criticism of Andy for being moody and rather negative in his tennis at times. All that is forgiven though. He single handily (OK he needed Jamie's help vin the doubles) won the whole thing for GB tennis and let his slam ambitions fall by the wayside at times.

Fair play Andy and respect for all your hard work.

See if I can do it it's about time all those delusional English soccer fans did the same. I'm not holding my breath on this one though as they probably don't possess the wherewithal to do so.

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Post by LuvSports! Mon 21 Dec 2015, 12:42 pm

No way should he have won SPOTY.

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Post by Guest Mon 21 Dec 2015, 12:49 pm

In fairness none of them should've won it!

It's such a token gesture. Rename it!

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Post by kingraf Mon 21 Dec 2015, 1:18 pm

Well it would have been heartbreaking to find out people think Tyson Fury has a better personality than you.
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Post by ListenUp Mon 21 Dec 2015, 2:11 pm

kingraf wrote:Well it would have been heartbreaking to find out people think Tyson Fury has a better personality than you.
Laugh

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Post by Born Slippy Mon 21 Dec 2015, 7:40 pm

It's never been really about personality though. Murray's obviously an outstanding role model so from that point of view he's always a worthy winner.

I suspect LS was more focussing on this year's achievements rather than a tired old criticism of Murray's personality? I'd probably agree he was behind at least Fury, Froome and Hamilton on that basis but I can see why bringing the DC back to GB swung it in his favour. It's nearly 80 years since that achievement. All the others are repeats (outstanding achievements notwithstanding) of things other Brits have won relatively recently.

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Post by temporary21 Mon 21 Dec 2015, 9:50 pm

Little surprised. But then the front runners were Hamilton... Again. And fury who rather shot himself in the foot but still a close 4th. Harsh on the mobot perhaps but athletics has taken some big hits this year

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Post by banbrotam Tue 22 Dec 2015, 8:15 am

Whilst I agree that Hamilton, Fury, Mobot and Froome had a greater shout - it's about personality. It's not achievement

Yet again, proof for the justification of this thread is evident in some of the recent comments. Murray had a highly successful year, simply because he led a team to achieve something that hadn't been done for nearly half a century. Plus competed well in virtually ever Masters and Slam, including his best ever clay court season - where it's no longer ridiculous to think of him winning RG

And for the Davis Cup it was very much a single handed effort mentally and definitely had an impact on his preparations for some of the more 'important' events

So basically, we had someone (who subconciously at the very least) sacrificed his solo career for the benefit of his colleagues and country and succeeded where countless others had failed

Not certain we've ever had such a SPOTY contender. Logically, you can then see why he won it

To tell you the truth, I'm cool with his career. If he never wins another Masters or Slam, so be it. He's achieved far more than any of us thought in 2005

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Post by banbrotam Tue 22 Dec 2015, 8:21 am

temporary21 wrote:Little surprised. But then the front runners were Hamilton... Again. And fury who rather shot himself in the foot but still a close 4th. Harsh on the mobot perhaps but athletics has taken some big hits this year

Hamilton, who is alos one of my other favourite sportsman (wait until both of these two (Murray) retire before they become really appreciated) is the typical selfish winner, i.e. in the kind of Fed mode, but not quite having the cool Swiss's interlect

I love the way he carries himself in that wonderfully arrogant manner that all the great sportsman of the past have, but it's not going to endear him to Auntie Mabel etc!! It shows that SPOTY is rightly about more than winning, as really he should have had that award in 2007, 2008 and 2010 (when he managed to get a pup of a car, to be within a chance of winning the championship right up to the last race) and of course this year. OK I'll accept Chris Hoy winning in 2008 Smile

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 22 Dec 2015, 2:45 pm

What I have read across forums (not this) is the same old tired haters of Murray with poisonous bile such as he has no personality. Sorry to say but they are going on what? Watching him on the box or is it more to do with comments made a decade ago? Rolling Eyes

Those that know him intimately and work/play alongside him in tennis say he has a great dry humour and has many friends. Those haters should try watching that BBC documentary made a year or so ago (think it was called Andy Murray - the man behind the racket) and those not filled with hatred may just decide to change their views.

As for him winning the award this year it did surprise me but when you look at the other contenders then is it really such a surprise?
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Post by YvonneT Tue 22 Dec 2015, 5:46 pm

To be honest, I'd rather hoped that with 2 Spoty awards and lots of positive press, that the notion is Andy Murray does not get the respect he is due could finally be dropped.

Obviously it's easy to find negative comments on social media, because that's part of the make-up of social media - but all of those Spoty nominees will get plenty of negative comments (off the top of my head: not British enough, who cares about swimming/gymnastics, cycling/athletics tarnished by PEDs, misogynist/homophobic, arrogant, tax exile). Yet all of them could also be described as respected. Roger Federer is one of the most respected athletes in the world and yet you don't need to look very hard to find negative comments about him, his achievements or his personality.

But overall, Murray clearly is respected by most of the British public - yet for some, like Craig, this is not enough. What is enough then? When everyone loves him? Nobody hates him? Honestly, it's not going to happen so I'd suggest stopping going looking for the negative and stop trying to convert everyone.

The good thing about this forum is that, though there are posters who like all the top players and those that dislike them, it's usually very civil and debate is not usually personal.

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Post by banbrotam Tue 22 Dec 2015, 7:32 pm

YvonneT wrote:yet for some, like Craig, this is not enough. What is enough then? When everyone loves him? Nobody hates him? Honestly, it's not going to happen so I'd suggest stopping going looking for the negative and stop trying to convert everyone


Some of us are perplexed as to how someone like Steve Gerrard, who played well for his country about three times, gets more respect than Murray

CC will speak for himself, but I'm not certain he could give a flying fig - like me he just finds the stereotypical reactions to Murray hilarious

Of course Murray in 20 years time will be as loved in the same way Mac is. This is simply because most Brit's want 'nice' winners. Hamilton moaning about some pit error or Murray berating himself for not doing the impossible, is seen as spoilt, been a brat or whatever

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Post by temporary21 Tue 22 Dec 2015, 8:11 pm

I think that says more about British ideas to tennis in general. It's still seen as below the big sports like football so to speak. To appreciate Andy means needing to tune in to more than just wimby, but a large part of Britain doesn't

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Post by YvonneT Tue 22 Dec 2015, 9:56 pm

banbrotam wrote:Some of us are perplexed as to how someone like Steve Gerrard, who played well for his country about three times, gets more respect than Murray
Well, I don't have access to your respectometer to know how you concluded that, but Gerrard hasn't twice won the Spoty award on a public vote. I'm not trying to make out Murray is Britain's most loved sportsman here - just that he does get the respect he "deserves". All sports people, however successful or respected, have detractors, they all are judged by most people on their superficial personality rather than a deeper study of what they are like away from the sport and the media, they all say things which are misquoted or misconstrued - nothing here is unique to Murray. And people who enjoy filling the cyberworld with their bile will rarely limit themselves to the subject of Andy Murray.

Anyway, I'm being tediously repetitive in making a point about something else being tediously repetitive so I'll leave it there!

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 23 Dec 2015, 12:43 am

The award is based partly on achievement, and partly on personality. It's very clear that that achievement factor is considered the more important, irrespective of the title!

Nice of the voters to give it to him again after he didn't bother to turn up the first time.

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Post by Guest Wed 23 Dec 2015, 9:25 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:What I have read across forums (not this) is the same old tired haters of Murray with poisonous bile such as he has no personality. Sorry to say but they are going on what? Watching him on the box or is it more to do with comments made a decade ago? Rolling Eyes

Those that know him intimately and work/play alongside him in tennis say he has a great dry humour and has many friends. Those haters should try watching that BBC documentary made a year or so ago (think it was called Andy Murray - the man behind the racket) and those not filled with hatred may just decide to change their views.

As for him winning the award this year it did surprise me but when you look at the other contenders then is it really such a surprise?

I believe the wider criticism isn't about Murray winning SPOTY. The rumblings have been going on for years that the award is merely token based on achievement than the purpose of the award. I mean crikey Rusedski won it! If they re-named the award to reflect the criteria athletes are shortlisted for, it might well not cause so much of a stir.

As for Andy, the is a world of difference between the person on court and the person off it. It's the same in any sport. As a follower I see more of Andy on court than I do off it. The 'Personality' in the documentary doesn't as such translate to the on court Murray. Some athletes can pull that off by bringing their personality on to the sporting stage. When I think 'Personality' in sport, I think a Seve or a Nastase. There are those who can bring their personality to the stage.

I don't find Andy 'boring' if you listen to him off court, he is actually more game than people give him credit for, but I doubt the vast watching public see that. Those on tennis forums do whereas the wider public I don't think they do.

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Post by Born Slippy Wed 23 Dec 2015, 9:54 am

I don't see a change in name being required. It's obviously based primarily on achievement and always has been. I have always taken it to mean the sports person who has had the biggest impact on the public that year through their sporting achievements, rather than who has the best personality!

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Post by Guest Wed 23 Dec 2015, 11:32 am

So personality = achievement?

I'll make that change to my dictionary.

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Post by Born Slippy Wed 23 Dec 2015, 12:50 pm

But you could surely be an "important personality" (let's say the Queen) without necessarily having a great personality?

The purpose of the award was always to reflect achievement not personality and there has been no move away from that. I'm sure Chris Chataway and Gordon Pirie were nice guys but it was their achievements which led to them being given the award.

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Post by Born Slippy Wed 23 Dec 2015, 12:55 pm

YvonneT wrote:
banbrotam wrote:Some of us are perplexed as to how someone like Steve Gerrard, who played well for his country about three times, gets more respect than Murray
Well, I don't have access to your respectometer to know how you concluded that, but Gerrard hasn't twice won the Spoty award on a public vote. I'm not trying to make out Murray is Britain's most loved sportsman here - just that he does get the respect he "deserves". All sports people, however successful or respected, have detractors, they all are judged by most people on their superficial personality rather than a deeper study of what they are like away from the sport and the media, they all say things which are misquoted or misconstrued - nothing here is unique to Murray. And people who enjoy filling the cyberworld with their bile will rarely limit themselves to the subject of Andy Murray.

Anyway, I'm being tediously repetitive in making a point about something else being tediously repetitive so I'll leave it there!

Agree entirely with this. There are always going to be internet detractors of any sportsman. Craig seems to take it a little bit to heart when it relates to Murray (and it can be frustrating reading stuff which is clearly woefully off the mark). Murray is clearly recognised widely as one of Britain's very top sportsmen and clearly gets plenty of respect.

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Post by Calder106 Wed 23 Dec 2015, 2:35 pm

legendkillarV2 wrote:So personality = achievement?

I'll make that change to my dictionary.

While I agree that personality does not equal achievement it does have quite a few definitions in the dictionary. A few are more complex but one is simply " a well known person in a particular field e.g. entertainment'. So if that is what personality equates to in SPOTY then Andy definitely qualifies. He obviously does not have the charisma of people like Federer or Beckham who embrace celebrity (not a criticism they have earned it) and is well aware of that and is quite self-depreciating about it. However I don't think that bothers him too much. I think his final words on Sunday night sum him up well "I dedicate my life to this sport and I work extremely hard every day to make you proud." Looks like 38% of those who voted on Sunday felt he had achieved that.

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Post by erictheblueuk Mon 28 Dec 2015, 1:51 am

LuvSports! wrote:No way should he have won SPOTY.

So who should have won it then?
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Post by LuvSports! Mon 28 Dec 2015, 10:04 am

In terms of achievement I would put Froome ahead of him, Fury, Ennis, Sinfield at least.


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Post by temporary21 Mon 28 Dec 2015, 10:27 am

Fury I could see the case but he shot himself in the foot. Ennis hasn't acheived the same over the year and I feel would be a sentimental vote. Like athletics, cycling has been hit by doping scandals which makes it harder for the mobot and froome. I don't know sinfield. Andy went 11-0 unbeaten out of a possible 12 matches and won a trophy we hadn't won in 80 years. No one else but maybe fury can claim a Bigger result

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Post by erictheblueuk Mon 28 Dec 2015, 12:23 pm

I agree with the British DC team winning the team SPOTY as they won the DC and are now the No1 ranked tennis nation in mens tennis, LOL. But Andy himself has had better slam results in the past and that's how you judge the top players in this sport.

However, if you look at the matches Andy won in the DC it would have been a shock if he'd lost any of those matches. In fact the only match I had him down to lose would have been the doubles against the Bryan Brothers in the USA tie. But thanks to Ward beating Isner Andy was rested and didn't have to to play that match.



Peaty, Whitlock, Farah, Ennis-Hill, Rutherford - probably deserved it more than Andy but the pinnacle of their sports is really the Olympics.

Froome - Will probably have to win the tour and an Olympic Gold like Wiggins did to win Spoty, even then he'll struggle as the British public don't really know the guy.

Fury - Simply put, a lot of people just don't like his personality.

Hamiltion - Was simply the best in a 2 horse race, plus he won it last year.

Sinfield - I feel this really would have been a lifetime achievement award and did well because of a block rugby fan vote.

Bronze and Armitstead - I don't believe their sports or events have a big enough following for them to win SPOTY.

Andy Murray - I believe won this because: it was a non Olympic year, a block Scottish vote and the DC final was a very recent event.
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Post by Knowsit17 Tue 29 Dec 2015, 6:51 pm

Should have been Froome or Hamilton for me. Can't comprehend how Murray gets the individual award for something that was clearly a team achievement. Team award - yes, arguably well deserved. 2013 award - definitely deserved, at a time when he was actually winning SINGLES titles. This year's award - undeserved. Sorry. He did nothing of note on the individual circuit.

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Post by temporary21 Tue 29 Dec 2015, 11:01 pm

Froomes and Hamilton's achievements were heavily reliant on a team as well remember...

SPOTY isn't for individual achievement its for achievement in general and Andy is one of only 3 people to ever go 8-0 in singles in dc/

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Post by Guest Wed 30 Dec 2015, 9:51 am

Fooking Hamilton?

I do better overtaking on the M25!

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Post by erictheblueuk Wed 30 Dec 2015, 6:20 pm

temporary21 wrote:SPOTY isn't for individual achievement its for achievement in general and Andy is one of only 3 people to ever go 8-0 in singles in dc/

It would been a shock if he'd lost any of those matches over 5 sets.
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Post by temporary21 Wed 30 Dec 2015, 7:10 pm

And the three doubles. Last year he lost to Fognini remember. Downgrading the acheivement because it wasn't the top 3 seems unfair

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Post by temporary21 Wed 30 Dec 2015, 7:12 pm

I'd say that doesn't quite do credit to Tsonga, Simon or tomic or gofffin. All of whom are quite dangerous

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Post by erictheblueuk Thu 31 Dec 2015, 10:41 am

temporary21 wrote:And the three doubles. Last year he lost to Fognini remember. Downgrading the acheivement because it wasn't the top 3 seems unfair

He was still getting back to full fitness after his back surgery, so I'll give him a pass on that one.
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Post by erictheblueuk Thu 31 Dec 2015, 11:28 am

temporary21 wrote:I'd say that doesn't quite do credit to Tsonga, Simon or tomic or gofffin. All of whom are quite dangerous


Please !

Murray has won 11 of the last 12 matches against Tsonga and Tsonga's last win at the 2014 Canadian Masters was during Murray's comeback to full fitness after the back surgery.

Murray has never lost to Simon over 5 sets and leads their H2H 13-2.

Murray leads Tomic in their H2H 3 -0 and has yet to lose a set.

Murray leads Goffin in their H2H 3 -0 and has yet to lose a set. NB:- (Goffin is credited with a win at the 2015 Rome Masters but by W/O).


Murray was a heavy favorite over 5 sets in all these matches and you know it!
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Post by temporary21 Thu 31 Dec 2015, 1:43 pm

Well yes he was. But what's the angle? Hamilton was heavy favourite because he had the best car. Froome had the best team. It's not like he was taking in guys outside the top 250, they were proper matches

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Post by erictheblueuk Thu 31 Dec 2015, 2:17 pm

temporary21 wrote:Well yes he was. But what's the angle? Hamilton was heavy favourite because he had the best car. Froome had the best team. It's not like he was taking in guys outside the top 250, they were proper matches

Don't get me wrong, I'm a Murray fan, but the point is Murray didn't have to face best in his sport to win the DC, where as Peaty, Whitlock, Farah, Ennis-Hill, Rutherford and Fury did.
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Post by Henman Bill Thu 31 Dec 2015, 5:09 pm

It's one thing to say that in any of those matches individually Murray was strong favourite to win; but that does not equate to being strong favourite to win ALL of them. Even the top ranked players lose to the 10-30 players from time to time.

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Post by temporary21 Thu 31 Dec 2015, 6:41 pm

But such is how it is. Froome didn't have to worry about contador in the end. Plus the amount of credible threat rosberg was allowed to give is hard to say. Point is murray has to do it 11 times all year and he can't afford to lose even once!

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Post by temporary21 Thu 31 Dec 2015, 6:43 pm

The other guys yes they did have to. Fury is definitely a strong shout. But non Olympic years, frankly I dont think the athletics is a big an accompliswnt regardless of circumstance . Sinfield I don't know, maybe?

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