We Need to Talk About Munster.

First topic message reminder :

We really do.

What is to be done?

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I see him as a poisoned challis myself...

Foley is the poisoned challis. Farrell can bring some defensive expertise at least and he'll be gone in 4 months. We're stuck with Foley which is incredible given the demolition job he is doing to Munster.

If he was the poisoned challis you think he is, he would have signed the 1 year contract extension which is still on offer from the IRFU.

Farrell will not be working directly with the players.

According to Foley he'll be meeting with players individually to get their thoughts and delivering feedback to the coaching team based on this and his own observations of the training and set up.

Basically hes there as a consultant on behalf of the IRFU to see what the hell is going wrong.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

marty2086 wrote:http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

The way Munster are playing at the moment (almost as badly as Glasgow), I would think that Tampax would be an appropriate sponsor.

Useful, but very soft and a bit embarrassing to be associated with.

()

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

profitius wrote:

eirebilly wrote:I see him as a poisoned challis myself...

Foley is the poisoned challis. Farrell can bring some defensive expertise at least and he'll be gone in 4 months. We're stuck with Foley which is incredible given the demolition job he is doing to Munster.

If he was the poisoned challis you think he is, he would have signed the 1 year contract extension which is still on offer from the IRFU.

Farrell will not be working directly with the players.

According to Foley he'll be meeting with players individually to get their thoughts and delivering feedback to the coaching team based on this and his own observations of the training and set up.

Basically hes there as a consultant on behalf of the IRFU to see what the hell is going wrong.

Nope. We know what is going wrong - its how to fix it which is what needed.

marty2086 wrote:http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

Munster were trying to sell 10 year tickets at the time. It was not surprising that they didn't want to annoy the fans.

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

Munster were trying to sell 10 year tickets at the time. It was not surprising that they didn't want to annoy the fans.

Plus they have far less fans to urine off these days so this would be the best time to do it ...

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

Munster were trying to sell 10 year tickets at the time. It was not surprising that they didn't want to annoy the fans.

Plus they have far less fans to urine off these days so this would be the best time to do it ...

Those they still have are peed off about that many things one more won't make a difference, get it all out of the way in one go

rodders wrote:

Sin é wrote:

marty2086 wrote:http://www.limerickleader.ie/sport/limerick-sport/munster-consider-thomond-park-naming-rights-1-7157812

Munster apparently looking into selling the naming rights to Thomond, having decided not to do it when they previously considered it due to fan feedback could cost them 400k euros a year

Munster were trying to sell 10 year tickets at the time. It was not surprising that they didn't want to annoy the fans.

Plus they have far less fans to urine off these days so this would be the best time to do it ...

Still some of the best attendances in the Champs Cup. 17,000 tickets sold for this weekend already.

James Cronin most likely on his way to London Irish, Botha gone to Exeter.

Ian Nagle to return to playing... in Leinster.

Think Cronin might be a bit of agent dangling, though there is a huge issue with Cork based players having to move to Limerick next season when the new training centre is opened in the University of Limerick.

Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

I think Nagle is going to Leinster, so I suppose thats good (provided he can stay fit).

When I heard that Nucifora got a 5 year contract with Ireland, I knew we were in for trouble.

What I don't understand is that someone like Sean O'Brien (3 year), Sexton (4) & Healy (3) have gotten really long central contracts with their injury/form record, yet Marty Moore who could be the starting tighthead in 6Ns can get offered a derisory (said to be €90k per annum) 2 year Leinster contract.

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

I think Nagle is going to Leinster, so I suppose thats good (provided he can stay fit).

When I heard that Nucifora got a 5 year contract with Ireland, I knew we were in for trouble.

What I don't understand is that someone like Sean O'Brien (3 year), Sexton (4) & Healy (3) have gotten really long central contracts with their injury/form record, yet Marty Moore who could be the starting tighthead in 6Ns can get offered a derisory (said to be €90k per annum) 2 year Leinster contract.

What exactly does Nucifora do besides deny the provinces signing decent NIQ players?

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

I think Nagle is going to Leinster, so I suppose thats good (provided he can stay fit).

When I heard that Nucifora got a 5 year contract with Ireland, I knew we were in for trouble.

What I don't understand is that someone like Sean O'Brien (3 year), Sexton (4) & Healy (3) have gotten really long central contracts with their injury/form record, yet Marty Moore who could be the starting tighthead in 6Ns can get offered a derisory (said to be €90k per annum) 2 year Leinster contract.

SOB was offered a 2 year contract and then there was talk of him going France for a 3 year contract so the IRFU upped it. Hopefully same occurs for Marty Moore.

Surely hes on more than that? He is an established Leinster and Ireland International and isnt tighthead prop one of the best paid positions?

Moore going to Wasps.

http://www.the42.ie/marty-moore-ian-madigan-shifting-ground-2548382-Jan2016/

Nero fiddles, while Rome burns - Nucifora is in Australia apparently.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

I think Nagle is going to Leinster, so I suppose thats good (provided he can stay fit).

When I heard that Nucifora got a 5 year contract with Ireland, I knew we were in for trouble.

What I don't understand is that someone like Sean O'Brien (3 year), Sexton (4) & Healy (3) have gotten really long central contracts with their injury/form record, yet Marty Moore who could be the starting tighthead in 6Ns can get offered a derisory (said to be €90k per annum) 2 year Leinster contract.

What exactly does Nucifora do besides deny the provinces signing decent NIQ players?

IRFU could be playing a long game. Franno has an article in Indo today (link below) where he says the FFR have introduced some new quota system for clubs and he reckons in a few years time everything will change again, with England being the place to go until the RFU do something similar!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/neil-francis-french-quota-system-to-shake-up-game-in-europe-34363116.html

In October 21 - a mere four days later - the FFR took steps to belatedly save themselves. The response to the humiliation? I must say I do prefer a good old-fashioned knee-jerk reaction rather than apathy and inaction. It had been evident for a while that French rugby was going down the tubes and decisive action was required.

The Joueurs Issus des Filieres de Formation (jiff) regulations were drawn up and started this season. All Top 14 teams are required to have 12 players registered with the FFR for at least five years before they turn 21 or have spent three seasons in an FFR-approved training centre if currently under 21. Quotas! FFR quotas where French nationals have to be selected in the match-day squad of 23. Next year it will be 14 French nationals in a squad of 23. Huge fines for non-compliance and the threat to go to 16 is being proposed.

This could be working against us at the moment, because if the lads want to make a killing, they have to go now.

I don't see the FFR taming the clubs anytime soon. If you just look at Montpellier, they have really upped their foreign signings in recent years and against Agen a couple of weeks ago they had 2 french players in thier starting 15! It's too late for the FFR.

In terms of the English the only clubs to worry about are Bath and Wasps really.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Well, I hope so. Starting to get a massive sense of foreboding about not just Munster, but Irish provincial rugby in general.

I think Nagle is going to Leinster, so I suppose thats good (provided he can stay fit).

When I heard that Nucifora got a 5 year contract with Ireland, I knew we were in for trouble.

What I don't understand is that someone like Sean O'Brien (3 year), Sexton (4) & Healy (3) have gotten really long central contracts with their injury/form record, yet Marty Moore who could be the starting tighthead in 6Ns can get offered a derisory (said to be €90k per annum) 2 year Leinster contract.

What exactly does Nucifora do besides deny the provinces signing decent NIQ players?

IRFU could be playing a long game. Franno has an article in Indo today (link below) where he says the FFR have introduced some new quota system for clubs and he reckons in a few years time everything will change again, with England being the place to go until the RFU do something similar!

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/neil-francis-french-quota-system-to-shake-up-game-in-europe-34363116.html

In October 21 - a mere four days later - the FFR took steps to belatedly save themselves. The response to the humiliation? I must say I do prefer a good old-fashioned knee-jerk reaction rather than apathy and inaction. It had been evident for a while that French rugby was going down the tubes and decisive action was required.

The Joueurs Issus des Filieres de Formation (jiff) regulations were drawn up and started this season. All Top 14 teams are required to have 12 players registered with the FFR for at least five years before they turn 21 or have spent three seasons in an FFR-approved training centre if currently under 21. Quotas! FFR quotas where French nationals have to be selected in the match-day squad of 23. Next year it will be 14 French nationals in a squad of 23. Huge fines for non-compliance and the threat to go to 16 is being proposed.

This could be working against us at the moment, because if the lads want to make a killing, they have to go now.

I wouldn't be too hopeful about quotas being introduced in France, anyone else remember

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/7980339.stm

"The rule will start to be applied progressively, with 50% of home-grown players in 2010/11 and 70% as of the 2011/12 season," said the French rugby league (LNR)"

Sin é wrote:Think Cronin might be a bit of agent dangling, though there is a huge issue with Cork based players having to move to Limerick next season when the new training centre is opened in the University of Limerick.

It's insane that the two-base thing wasn't resolved long ago.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't see the FFR taming the clubs anytime soon. If you just look at Montpellier, they have really upped their foreign signings in recent years and against Agen a couple of weeks ago they had 2 french players in thier starting 15! It's too late for the FFR.

In terms of the English the only clubs to worry about are Bath and Wasps really.

I think the FFR can enforce them if they put their mind to it (by refusing to licence the league).

Notch wrote:

Sin é wrote:Think Cronin might be a bit of agent dangling, though there is a huge issue with Cork based players having to move to Limerick next season when the new training centre is opened in the University of Limerick.

It's insane that the two-base thing wasn't resolved long ago.

It would have been, but the politics between Cork & Limerick is just horendous. The perfect solution would have been to have the training base in Cork and play in Thomond. What happened was that apparently Cork Inst. of Education put in a bid to be the centre, but it wasn't as good as UL's offer (I think they are actually paying Munster to operate out of a custom built new building they are building)!

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:I don't see the FFR taming the clubs anytime soon. If you just look at Montpellier, they have really upped their foreign signings in recent years and against Agen a couple of weeks ago they had 2 french players in thier starting 15! It's too late for the FFR.

In terms of the English the only clubs to worry about are Bath and Wasps really.

I think the FFR can enforce them if they put their mind to it (by refusing to licence the league).

The new regulations though aren't French nationals like Francis says, they are similar to the Premier Leagues whereby you have to be a product of an academy. It throws up some strange situations, Estebanez at Racing, a Frenchman born in France and capped for France is not a product of a French academy, though the Armitages are ok because they came through an academy even though they can't be capped for France. Gorgodze came through at Montpellier but he didn't spend enough time in the academy so isn't eligible.

Top 14 clubs have academies across the world, so they will just be picking off young players abroad to breed into eligible players that can be French qualified or be paid a bit extra not play for their country of birth

James Cronin has today signed a new deal with Munster along with Sherry and D Johnston

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/21876.php#.VpfXHvmLSM8

Wow some quick reaction to the garbage that was in the press about Cronin.

Some good news and he should be now comfortably ahead of Kilcoyne who still struggles with his scrummaging.

Awful news about BJ, who has probably played his last game for Munster. He has ruptured his anterior cruciate ligament. Its going to be hard to get back from that at his age. He probably won't be going to Exeter now! Just shows how difficult it must be for players on short contracts.

Great player & man - one of Munster best signings.

Cronin and Sherry resignings are a great boost to Munster now. Its great to see most of the players sticking around. Only other players yet to sign a new contract are Conor Murray & Earls (central) and Zebo. Only doubt I think is that Zebo might go to France.

Zebo wouldn't be a big loss, apart from the marketing, imo.

VinceWLB wrote:Zebo wouldn't be a big loss, apart from the marketing, imo.

He is one of a few internationals Munster have, so he would be a massive loss. As well as that the kids love him.

edit: around the time Zebo had his run-in with Schmidt about being a bit too relaxed, Paul O'Connell tweeted a picture of his son Paddy doing the Z sign.

Sin é wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Zebo wouldn't be a big loss, apart from the marketing, imo.

He is one of a few internationals Munster have, so he would be a massive loss. As well as that the kids love him.

Agreed that he is a figure and important from a marketing point of view but his performances of late doesn't justify the "international" accolade and his commitment on the pitch has left a lot to be desired.

Zebo would be a huge loss to Munster. He is a massive figure in the Munster camp and as Sin é say's, he is adored by the kids.

On form, he is one of the most naturally gifted players Ireland have.

Great news about Cronin and Sherry (although having watched both Leicester legs and the Leinster, Ulster and Stade games I'm definitely less convinced about Sherry now).

I hope none of the Ulster centres go anywhere. With hindsight, we shouldn't have re-signed Cave.

Sin é wrote:Awful news about BJ, who has probably played his last game for Munster. He has ruptured his anterior cruciate ligament. Its going to be hard to get back from that at his age. He probably won't be going to Exeter now! Just shows how difficult it must be for players on short contracts.

Great player & man - one of Munster best signings.

Aw, you don't like to hear that. Thats probably it for him. Can't blame players for taking the longer term contracts when they're on the table.

Sin é wrote:Awful news about BJ, who has probably played his last game for Munster. He has ruptured his anterior cruciate ligament. Its going to be hard to get back from that at his age. He probably won't be going to Exeter now! Just shows how difficult it must be for players on short contracts.

Great player & man - one of Munster best signings.

Terrible news, such a great player but fear you may be right, will take a lot to get back after that at his age. Hopefully he may be offered a place on the coaching staff if he does not go to Exeter. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience that could really benefit Munster. Wish him well whatever he chooses.

Yeah - good luck Beej. Propped up (literally) half the provinces of Ireland!

Foley has decided to play Holland at 6 despite the fact JOD and Copeland are fit...

Holland is a decent player but if this was a must win game, I am certain he would not start.

eirebilly wrote:Holland is a decent player but if this was a must win game, I am certain he would not start.

He's a decent 2nd rower who should be never used in the BR, especially when they have players available!

Don Alfonso wrote:Great news about Cronin and Sherry (although having watched both Leicester legs and the Leinster, Ulster and Stade games I'm definitely less convinced about Sherry now).

Not Sherry's fault that the lineout has malfunctioned. They need extra options and thats the reason they're brought in Billy Holland to start this weekend.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Foley has decided to play Holland at 6 despite the fact JOD and Copeland are fit...

I think JOD sat out some of training this week, so he maybe carrying a niggle. I'm not surprised Copeland isn't play because he was very poor last week.

Billy Holland - Leadership (frequently captains Munster) and will provide an extra lineout option. Expect them to use the lineout maybe a fair bit and perhaps the maul.

Sin é wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:Foley has decided to play Holland at 6 despite the fact JOD and Copeland are fit...

I think JOD sat out some of training this week, so he maybe carrying a niggle. I'm not surprised Copeland isn't play because he was very poor last week.

Billy Holland - Leadership (frequently captains Munster) and will provide an extra lineout option. Expect them to use the lineout maybe a fair bit and perhaps the maul.

Watching Billy Holland up against macalou is worth the admission fee alone!

Billy Holland was one of Munster most consistent performer last season, i for one wasn't surprised that Munster had their best win of the season at Belfast with him starting, much better player than Foley imo.

Munster give away first penalty after just a few seconds- silly. I really hope they can give there fans something to cheer about today.

Murray showing a lack of composure there, the forwards were driving for the line and had Stade on the back foot, why take the ball away from them?

I cant stand play acting, I would like to see ref's yellow card play actors...

Very encouraged by Munsters performance yesterday, really impressed with the passion they showed. Earls was again outstanding both in attack and defence. He just looks so much more comfortable on the wing than at 13.

Just hope that they can back that performance up with some consistent performances.

Earls played the last 20 mins in the centre and he was just brilliant there. Some really aggressive clean outs. The reason why I prefer Earls in the centre is because he gets his hands on the ball more.

Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Schmidt was at the game and he looked absolutely delighted when Earls scored his try (cameras panned onto him). Zebo interviewed afterwards by Newstalk. Sounded like he wanted to stay. Said Thomond Park was best place in the world to play rugby and how they really appreciated the fans turning up yesterday to support them.

15,000 at the game yesterday (nearly 19k tickets sold). Looks like MUnster fans are loyal.

eirebilly wrote:Fair enough Sin é, I simply prefer him on the wing where he can be more devastating in the counter attack. His try yesterday was that of an excellent winger/poacher. It was brilliant and inspired the rest of the team.

His defence was simply outstanding and I hope a few people will now stop the guf about him being weak defensively.

I agree with you about his clean outs, he was superb again in that area.

Was Schmidt at the match yesterday? If so, he will have seen another top class performance from Earls. Zebo even started to come good in the 2nd half and as for CJ Stander, he has to be selected. An inspirational player and leader.

Putting in a few big tackles doesn't make someone a good defender. There is a lot more to it than that and this season alone has highlighted that Earl's can struggle with the bigger ball carriers and (evident during the RWC) his positioning at times. There have been a few games where his missed tackle statistics are much weaker than other options at 13 for Ireland. It isn't "guff". See the statistics for yourself.

Anyway, I actually can see both sides of the argument regarding his best position. He can tear holes in the opposition defence better than most in Ireland so you would like to see him get his hands on the ball as often as possible. However I would still worry about his defence against the "bigger" teams and his decision making when playing at centre. I think his best games in the past have been at fullback but I think that ship has sailed.

EDIT: Also, Schmidt was at the game yesterday and had a huge grin on his face after his wonderful try. He will be pushing for a starting place no doubt.

Ok, let me clarify the guff comment. I mean that people who say that he is a mere speed bump in defence. His defence is, and always has been pretty decent, the only issue I have really had is his positioning in tackles which have led to injuries. Of course he misses the odd tackle, show me a player who doesn't... He is a solid defender which can also be seen in the RWC when he made at least two great cover tackles after others had missed theirs.

His clean outs are up there with the best players in his positions as well.