6N 2016: Ireland v Wales, 7 February

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IRELAND v WALES
7 February 2016
KO: 15:00 GMT
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on RTE, ITV, FR2, DMAX, BBC(H)

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

123 Played 123
52 Won 67
4 Drawn 4
67 Lost 52
1,365 Points 1,461

B. Recent Form

29 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
10 – 16 to Wales

8 August 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
21 – 35 to Ireland

14 March 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 16 to Wales

8 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 3 to Ireland

2 February 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
22 – 30 to Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND

S Zebo; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, K Earls; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best (capt), N White; D Toner, M McCarthy; CJ Stander, T O’Donnell, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, J Cronin, T Furlong, D Ryan, R Ruddock, K Marmion, I Madigan, D Kearney.

WALES

G Anscombe; G North, J Davies, J Roberts, T James; D Biggar, G Davies; R Evans, S Baldwin, S Lee, L Charteris, A-W Jones, S Warburton (capt), J Tipuric, T Faletau.

Replacements: K Owens, G Jenkins, T Francis, B Davies, D Lydiate, L Williams, R Priestland, A Cuthbert

If it's a YC offence can he still be cited? I'm not sure if they just do it for RC offences.

Was Earls guilty of a tip tackle?

It seemed to me that Williams jumped in to Earls arm, and Earls was not expecting that to happen. and did not know what to do.

Yes he can be cited.

True Raven wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

tatterd wrote:Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

Tom James was poor all he did when he had the ball was run into the nearest tackler, I agree Liam was not at his best but take into account that he has not been training with the starting side. I agree about Lloyds rubbish kick, it should never have been a box kick it should have gone to the corner, Davies was not good but Lloyd was very poor.

For me the three big mistakes which cost Wales the win were: Tipuric out of position for the Irish try, Lloyds rubbish kick, and the ref for not carding Earls for the tip tackle.

Does it not occur to you at all that tipuric wouldn't be in a position for the Irish try if priestland hadnt made the glaring error?? Anyway no one person is to blame for not winning its just stupid errors are completely avoidable by just using your brain and these errors unnecessarily put us under pressure.  Although you are right with lloyds kick because it was atrocious and put Wales under pressure too

Unsurprisingly though, Tips gets his start and has another quiet game.

I think Priestland can be blamed for Wales not winning. He missed two drop goals from what looked like good field positions.

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

DirtyRucker7 wrote:What a failure of a game , it was like watching two tramps fight over a can of White Lighting.

Thank God for Eddies England at least the general public will see what real rugby is.

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

:-) I think he was a Martian! For what it worth to me he landed on his arm / front so penalty / no card is right so I doubt any citing

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

mikey_dragon wrote:If it's a YC offence can he still be cited? I'm not sure if they just do it for RC offences.

He can only be cited if the citing commissioner thinks a red card offence has been committed.

Overall, a nice game of football. Not enough goals though. Maybe Mourinho might be interested in Gatland's job to just tighten up on the strikers. We'll see.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

The laws of the game say that it was a red card offence, I think it should have been dealt with on the pitch with a yellow, but he can be cited as Liam was tipped beyond the horizontal and dropped on his shoulder, so pretty much like the Sam Warburton tackle.

Seagultaf wrote:

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Griff wrote:

exile jack wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:

True Raven wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

Because he lacks the intelligence and composure of top fly halves and panics.  It cost us seven points and he should be held accountable as it was an awful decision.

That's what I was thinking Raven

The ridiculous thing is ruby was that he waited for the ball to roll over the line rather than pick it up immediately but then did pick it up and shanked it into touch rather than touching it down

To be fair to RP we ended up in our 22 from an attack in their 22.But as the recent Bath v Saracens game showed RP can be OK for 60 minutes and a liability for 20 minutes.Just like today.When RP got the ball we winced.When JS got the ball there was expectation.RP is nowhere near his 2011 WC form.The horse has died so why does Gats flog it?

Lack of alternatives. Who do we start when Biggar is enviably injured? Tovey?! Patchell?? Sam Davies??!

Not convinced it would make that much of a difference really as to who plays OH for Wales.

Priestland was one of Wales best players along with Roberts and Evans, look at the rankings in the Eastern Fail! I suspect that he was not sure whether the charge down had been touched by a Wales player so kicked for touch (safe kick not shanked) it was a split second descision.

At the end of the day the difference between the sides was minimal, you could blame Tipric for being out of position for the Irish try, or even Biggar for missing a simple penalty when he was clearly injured and should have been off the pitch. The telling mistake was probably by Lloyd Williams when his box kick went straight up in the air placing all of Wales forwards off side for the winning penalty.

Biggar will be back if fit against Scotland but if not Priestland will deservedly keep his place, probably with Anscombe on the bench.

Naah.
Not knocking Priestland in any case. Just wondering how any OH can effect a game that much playing the same old. Seems to me from set piece, the ball went straight to 12 like Mikey boy used to do or it went to Priest who often booted a hail Mary hoping for the best. Can't remember our wingers getting that much involved either.

SecretFly wrote:Overall, a nice game of football.  Not enough goals though.  Maybe Mourinho might be interested in Gatland's job to just tighten up on the strikers.  We'll see.

What strikers? I think they were all on strike

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

It is a bit. Move on, nothing to see really.

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

I tip my hat to you Sir ,you seem like a fellow connoisseur of Rugby, you seem to have a good recollection of games from back in the day
I think we just become friends.

Seagultaf wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

The laws of the game say that it was a red card offence, I think it should have been dealt with on the pitch with a yellow, but he can be cited as Liam was tipped beyond the horizontal and dropped on his shoulder, so pretty much like the Sam Warburton tackle.

Nope - according to the guidence - red for head / neck IIRC - yellow for back - he landed on his arm / front so no card

Seagultaf wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

The laws of the game say that it was a red card offence, I think it should have been dealt with on the pitch with a yellow, but he can be cited as Liam was tipped beyond the horizontal and dropped on his shoulder, so pretty much like the Sam Warburton tackle.

To me it looked more like that Liam Williams Jumped into Earls arms and Earls was trying to catch him. Rather than Earls making a tackle on him.

Surely if it was a possible citing offence, then surely the ref should of gone to the TMO.

mikey_dragon wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

tatterd wrote:Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

Tom James was poor all he did when he had the ball was run into the nearest tackler, I agree Liam was not at his best but take into account that he has not been training with the starting side. I agree about Lloyds rubbish kick, it should never have been a box kick it should have gone to the corner, Davies was not good but Lloyd was very poor.

For me the three big mistakes which cost Wales the win were: Tipuric out of position for the Irish try, Lloyds rubbish kick, and the ref for not carding Earls for the tip tackle.

Does it not occur to you at all that tipuric wouldn't be in a position for the Irish try if priestland haidnt made the glaring error?? Anyway no one person is to blame for not winning its just stupid errors are completely avoidable by just using your brain and these errors unnecessarily put us under pressure.  Although you are right with lloyds kick because it was atrocious and put Wales under pressure too

Unsurprisingly though, Tips gets his start and has another quiet game.

I think Priestland can be blamed for Wales not winning. He missed two drop goals from what looked like good field positions.

Two very difficult drops from poor passes and under huge pressure! He had a good game, 100% kicking record, tackled and passed very well, overall a very competent performance and his best for a long time. He should have minored that charge down but split second descision and took the safe option.

A fit Biggar is Wales best option but if he had gone off when he was injured instead of struggling on Wales may very well be celebrating a win now.

Seagultaf wrote:

TJ wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

Shifty wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:Priestland did well/ish but I'd still like to know why he didn't just tap the ball down for a 22 drop out following the charge down instead of kicking to touch from which Ireland eventually scored. It was a classic brain fart.

He was a lot better than I could of ever hoped, I was more annoyed at the way that final penalty was given to Ireland at the end.  I'm not saying the draw wasn't a fair result to both teams, I'm just confused as to how it was an offence.  

I think Notch had issue with Wales holding on and not releasing, but Ireland were getting away with it as well, so at least the ref was consistent to both teams.

Seagultaf wrote:Pretty much a fair result Wales started very slowly, then Earls got away with a tip tackle which the laws of the game say was a red but most rugby fans (including myself) would have been happy with a yellow.

Biggar should have gone off earlier, he is a better player these days than Priestland but Wales improved significantly when he went off. Also need Gatland to explain why he took Evans off when he was destroying his counterpart in the scrum, also can we consign Lloyd Williams to history he cost Wales the game. Gareth Davies was not great by Lloyd was absolute pants, need to get Webb or Aled Davies into the match day squad, also James showed why he has not played for Wales for such a long time apart from one tackle, was he playing?

Theres no way that "tip" tackle was any kind of card.  I don't think there was any kind of intent there, in my eyes.  

Whether there is or is not intent is irrelevant, the law is categoric if the player is lifted beyond the horizontal and is allowed to land on his head and or shoulder, it is a red card offence, there is no mention of intent whatsoever it is the responsibility of the tackler to ensure the tackled player lands safely. So lucky escape (unless he gets cited) for Earls and Ireland.

Actually the guidence is - tipped above horizontal and not put down safely for penalty foul play, lands on front - no other sanction.  Lands on back - yellow, lands on head / neck red.

The first one the tipped player landed on his front / hands so just a pen.  the second one we didn't get a replay but it looked worse from the glimpse we got but clearly the 4th official saw nothing it it

Watch the slow motion replay which clearly showed that Liam Williams landed on this shoulders if he hadn't put his arm out it would have been his head! So by the letter of the law a red! We didn't get a replay of the second so I cant comment.

First you say he landed on his shoulder (he didn't, he landed on his elbow), which can be a yellow card offence, and then say he should have got red because he could have landed on his head....

It was never a red, and it was never a yellow. Williams jumped into Earls, maybe even looking for a card when considering who the ref was.

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

I don't know, are they?

GavinDragon wrote:Forget the players. It is the coaching, the attacking gameplan is so bereft of creativity and stuck in 09 it is unreal.

Players look unable or unwilling to offload, we don't know how to put men into space only into contact.
...our attack is based on going through phases and creating mismatches in the defensive line. The thing is, most pro players of all sizes are fairly comfortable defending at any point of their defensive system, and when all we do is crab across, it makes it easy to defend. We need to be coaching our players to offload in contact and simple, basic draw and pass into space which we seem unable to do.

Too true Gav!

And Wales weren't all that hot either.

I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Hi, Fly

TJ wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:

Notch wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TJ wrote:Yes he can be cited.  

I suspected so. My next question, was today's citing commissioner Irish?

Are people seriously calling for him to be cited for that? That is completely pathetic.

Notch.

I totaly agree with you. No way should Earls be cited for that tackle.

That was nothing like the Sam Warburton tackle in the Rugby World Cup that time.

The laws of the game say that it was a red card offence, I think it should have been dealt with on the pitch with a yellow, but he can be cited as Liam was tipped beyond the horizontal and dropped on his shoulder, so pretty much like the Sam Warburton tackle.

Nope - yellow according to the guidence - red for head / neck IIRC - he landed on his arm / front so no card

Look at the replay, don't make it up! He was lifted above the horizontal and landed on his arm as he had put it out to stop his head hitting the ground first. The laws are clear that was a red card offence, so a citing is possible.

RubyGuby wrote:I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Some cartwheel all the same, and the triple loop was spectacular

Well he did do the JumboJet uncarriage liftup in a very pronounced way. Gotta love that sexy Jumbo undercarriage liftup look....

RubyGuby wrote:I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Frankly after the citing debacles in the World Cup I would not be surprised at allow to see Liam cited!

Hi Munch. Have you been keeping the aisles clean of garbage in my absence???

Been very quiet really. Been very busy the last few weeks, but great to see another sweeper in the aisles

Munchkin wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Some cartwheel all the same, and the triple loop was spectacular

Then again Earls might have gone for Liam's legs and on realising you could drive a Ford Rancho between them tried to back out of the tackle and got caught in the process

RubyGuby wrote:I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Liam Williams was trying to get a leg up from Earls' thigh so he could do a backflip, Shaolin Monk style. Ban Earls for stopping the backflip I say.

Seagultaf wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

True Raven wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

tatterd wrote:Two reasons we lost that game. Lloyd's box kick (moronic) and the occasion when, after we had (finally) worked some space on the outside after about 10 phases of boshing, Scott bloody Baldwin drops a simple pass from Priestland killing any momentum from one of our most promising attacking moves. Get out of the backline hooker! Also, if I was Tom James I would be absolutely peed off with Liam Williams. He never passed him the bloody ball once! Took contact every time making no line breaks. Tom barely touched the ball to show if he could do anything

Tom James was poor all he did when he had the ball was run into the nearest tackler, I agree Liam was not at his best but take into account that he has not been training with the starting side. I agree about Lloyds rubbish kick, it should never have been a box kick it should have gone to the corner, Davies was not good but Lloyd was very poor.

For me the three big mistakes which cost Wales the win were: Tipuric out of position for the Irish try, Lloyds rubbish kick, and the ref for not carding Earls for the tip tackle.

Does it not occur to you at all that tipuric wouldn't be in a position for the Irish try if priestland haidnt made the glaring error?? Anyway no one person is to blame for not winning its just stupid errors are completely avoidable by just using your brain and these errors unnecessarily put us under pressure.  Although you are right with lloyds kick because it was atrocious and put Wales under pressure too

Unsurprisingly though, Tips gets his start and has another quiet game.

I think Priestland can be blamed for Wales not winning. He missed two drop goals from what looked like good field positions.

Two very difficult drops from poor passes and under huge pressure! He had a good game, 100% kicking record, tackled and passed very well, overall a very competent performance and his best for a long time. He should have minored that charge down but split second descision and took the safe option.

A fit Biggar is Wales best option but if he had gone off when he was injured instead of struggling on Wales may very well be celebrating a win now.

This is going round in circles so last time I post on it but you've just proved my point. Missed two drop goals under huge pressure as you say, well any top fly half with composure wouldn't have worried about the pressure and slotted one of them over. Dan biggar in the quarter final of the World Cup (more pressure on him btw) slotted a drop goal to keep the scoreboard ticking over. Neil Jenkins got five in one game, Jonny wilkinson dropped one in the World Cup final. Priestland lacks the composure because he is mentally fragile and misses, he is not an international fly half.....I have no issue with him being on the bench as a fullback option for the last ten mins or so but he should not be in a key decision making role.

Ford Ranchero. How appropriate Ruby. The lad has horse legs for sure.

I have no problem with Priestland on the bench as well - as long as he doesn't come on

RubyGuby wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I think Williams jumped into Earls and cartwheeled onto his head on purpose just trying to entice the ref into carding Earls. It's all starting to make sense now

Some cartwheel all the same, and the triple loop was spectacular

Then again Earls might have gone for Liam's legs and on realising you could drive a Ford Rancho between them tried to back out of the tackle and got caught in the process

Those legs were forged on a plumbers pipe bender, at birth. Can't think why he didn't take up football

Keith Earls would never carry out a tip tackle. In fairness to him he has given money to charities in Munster and he is a great all round guy. I'll try and post a totally irrelevant link to it just so I can make my point.

Seagultaf wrote:

Look at the replay, don't make it up! He was lifted above the horizontal and landed on his arm as he had put it out to stop his head hitting the ground first. The laws are clear that was a red card offence, so a citing is possible.

You state he landed on his arm not his head - we both agree on that so under the guidence it is not a card. Simple as that.

SecretFly wrote:Ford Ranchero.  How appropriate Ruby.  The lad has horse legs for sure.

Ford Rancho! Not Ranchero - I'd appreciate you reading my posts rather than just scanning them - how else are you to develop wisdom on here. Back to the aisles

Stringer?

Now there's a guy we could use in a battle against Williams.

RubyGuby wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Ford Ranchero.  How appropriate Ruby.  The lad has horse legs for sure.

Ford Rancho! Not Ranchero - I'd appreciate you reading my posts rather than just scanning them - how else are you to develop wisdom on here. Back to the aisles

Oh Right.  Never drove me a Rancho.  Must take a test drive one day when someone pieces me together one out of a scrap heap.

So Liam Williams risked his career by trying to injure himself, in order to get Earls sent off? Rightio. Guys can you image the meltdown on here if Liam Williams put that tackle in on an Irish player? It would be infinte and vaguely amusing.

mikey_dragon wrote:So Liam Williams risked his career by trying to injure himself, in order to get Earls sent off? Rightio. Guys can you image the meltdown on here if Liam Williams put that tackle in on an Irish player? It would be infinte and vaguely amusing.

Too right MD they were baying for Jamie after he flattened their centre with a legal tackle you tell ' em mate

That was some tackle to be fair. One of the best I have seen from him. Probably should have been MOTM.

I do have a big man crush on CJ Stander though. He is exactly the sort of player we have been looking for.

I thought Faletau had a great game too gets through a lot of work

Predictably straight running was met with high quality tackles. Lots of endeavour, very physical but no flair. Two teams who have forgotten how to score tries.

What did you think of England with ball in hand, Glory?

I'm pretty sure I watched tries being scored today....

englandglory4ever wrote:Predictably straight running was met with high quality tackles. Lots of endeavour, very physical but no flair. Two teams who have forgotten how to score tries.

Both teams have recently shared championships too. The winner of this year's tournament will be one of the teams from this fixture (probably Wales) .