Who next in, or thereabouts, for England

First topic message reminder :

So itoje and Clifford, as expected, look quality, and we know George is as well as slade.

Whose next up? Anyone else other than Daly (and the other regular names such as ewers) that people want to see in the 23 in the near future?

My original comments don't stand? 'Given Itoje will probably be established in the team by then at lock and Slater waiting in the wings and hopefully fit not sure how far up the pecking order Lees will get.' Yeah that comment is way out there! I don't think Lees is extremely good, if he were I suspect even Aus would have had a look by now.

The nearest I get to supporting a club is Doncaster Knights, but that's more to see live rugby than supporting them.

BamBam wrote:Is Mitch Lees the new Sam Burgess

Seems so.

I'd rather see Slater given a go ahead of Lees. Perhaps even Kitchener if he can really do what people say he can. Having said that, I've no doubt that Jones has his own rankings, which will have a lot to do with how well he can work with them.

I see Jones thinks the England players are 30% fitter than we he first got them together. Is that really possible in such a short period?

I do think Jones will place a lot of value on the time he gets with the players. With Australia, and even Japan to some degree, he had some influence over what players got up to outside the national set-up. Even with the EPS agreement, his reach in the English game will be more limited.

Robson is probably the next 9 in line after Care and Youngs based on current form in my opinion. It helps that his fellow rival and team mate Simpson is injured.

beshocked wrote: Robson is probably the next 9 in line after Care and Youngs based on current form in my opinion. It helps that his fellow rival and team mate Simpson is injured.

Guys on the eggchasers podcast were also talking him up this week.

It's good he's getting game time, always felt it was a bit strange for him moving to Wasps with Simpson as direct competition. that can drive you on to be better (one upsmanship etc) but can severely limit your chances. The injury to Simpson is seemingly allowing him to flourish or at least get more recognition. We're potentially looking at a similar situation at Exeter where Hill and Devoto could be up against each other. great for the clubs of course.

I've always suspected that 1/2 can't read and he's never seen Lees play but feels he is eminently qualified to comment on his ability.

He bangs on about Itoje whom I think is an excellent talent yet to be confirmed. But what 1/2 fails to realise that it is an irrelevance in relation to the OP. Itoje is already in the squad. Jeez I wish he could read and then his comments might, just might be relevant and interesting.

7.5, you always are banging on about Itoje and definitely haven't had repeated arguments with another poster about his position in the squad, I agree

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's good he's getting game time, always felt it was a bit strange for him moving to Wasps with Simpson as direct competition. that can drive you on to be better (one upsmanship etc) but can severely limit your chances. The injury to Simpson is seemingly allowing him to flourish or at least get more recognition. We're potentially looking at a similar situation at Exeter where Hill and Devoto could be up against each other. great for the clubs of course.

Robson sure looked good last weekend. Nice quick delivery (mostly), passes on target, mostly good decisions. But, then again, almost everyone looked good against Sarries for Wasps in that match.

Everyone here can clearly read to some extent but understanding of points differ. itoje is on the edge of this squad still but will quickly establish himself as an integral part of the team, never mind squad. This will push one of the current placeholders down. Given Launchbury, lawes and Kruis are all proven internationals to some degree and all younger than Lees I believe I think this hinders Lees pushing in. In addition to this there are a lot of quality locks in the English game about, better than Lees. You're the one insinuating that Itoje isn't a 'real lock'.

I try to land somewhere in the middle BamBam!

Hard to tell from games like that doc. He looked good at Glaws but he does need to push on now.

Rugby Fan wrote:I'd rather see Slater given a go ahead of Lees. Perhaps even Kitchener if he can really do what people say he can. Having said that, I've no doubt that Jones has his own rankings, which will have a lot to do with how well he can work with them.

I see Jones thinks the England players are 30% fitter than we he first got them together. Is that really possible in such a short period?

I do think Jones will place a lot of value on the time he gets with the players. With Australia, and even Japan to some degree, he had some influence over what players got up to outside the national set-up. Even with the EPS agreement, his reach in the English game will be more limited.

Jones started by pretty much saying how crap England were. He's now starting to say how much they have improved and talking positively about them - I don't think they have improved as much as he thinks and is feeding the media to make him look better.

I don't think Jones gives a flying poop what the media thinks....I find his dismissive demeanour and obvious disdain for incoming questions quite refreshing

mid_gen wrote:I don't think Jones gives a flying poop what the media thinks....I find his dismissive demeanour and obvious disdain for incoming questions quite refreshing

I think that Jones is at times an attention lady of loose morals,thus the endless "controversial" comments, but also desperate to be respected. This latter desire sees him constantly telling us what a great job he is doing. I suspect that by RWC I will be well and truly sick of his press utterances.

It's a shame that a Saxons squad hasn't been released this season. That would have been the best indicator as to who Jones feels is coming up on the rails.

With injury/ban replacements Kvesic, Sam Hill, Devoto and Roko likely to have first been named in the Saxons then called up I guess we'd have seen something like...

1.Waller, Auterac
2.Haywood, Taylor
3.Thomas, D Wilson/S Wilson/Cooper-Wooley/Balmain
4.Slater, Lees/Barrow
5.Kitchener, Attwood/Sean Robinson?
6. ? Wood is playing 7 and nowhere near his best. Croft in not back to his best. Mark Wilson would be my shout.
7.Kvesic, Fraser
8.Morgan

9.Simpson, Robson, Chudley
10.Cipriani, Burns

11.Roko, Lewington
12.Hill, Devoto
13. ? Perhaps someone such as Burrell? Maybe Lowe if fully fit? Perhaps a chance taken on Tompkins, Stephenson or Sam James?
14.Wade, Short/Thompstone/Nev Edwards
15.Pennell, Foden

Obviously some would have missed out with injury and been replaced but I'm just thinking what our second string might look like given EPS for the 6 Nations.

Blindside and outside centre seem the bigger problem positions there. There's also no real standout for reserve TH but a fair few quality locks and well performing wingers around the place.

Jackson Wray could well have been considered for a back row spot, covering 6 and 8.

Good shout LT.

Personally I'd put him in a similar bracket to Jamie Gibson in that I think he's a good Jeff player but wont ever realistically be an international flanker. His consistent performances would warrant a Saxons opportunity compared to the competition though.

Rugby Fan wrote:I see Jones thinks the England players are 30% fitter than we he first got them together. Is that really possible in such a short period?

No, not remotely possible.  Improvement in physical conditioning of pro athletes is usually measured in very small increments.  A little bit stronger.  A half-step quicker. Reaction time a fraction faster.  A little more aerobic capacity.  Slight improvements which can have a big impact on performance.

Itoje is already in the squad 23. So is irrelevant on this one. When he can be spoken about as a bakkies botha then he will be good. Lees could do that job already. If he hadn't been crocked.

king_carlos wrote:Good shout LT.

Personally I'd put him in a similar bracket to Jamie Gibson in that I think he's a good Jeff player but wont ever realistically be an international flanker. His consistent performances would warrant a Saxons opportunity compared to the competition though.

Harrison could cover 6.

englandglory4ever wrote:Itoje is already in the squad 23. So is irrelevant on this one.  When he can be spoken about as a bakkies botha then he will be good. Lees could do that job already. If he hadn't been crocked.

Ok. As per the original comment I don't think Lees is that good. Certainly not better than Itoje and not the equal, of a presumably peak, Bakkies Botha.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:Itoje is already in the squad 23. So is irrelevant on this one.  When he can be spoken about as a bakkies botha then he will be good. Lees could do that job already. If he hadn't been crocked.

Ok. As per the original comment I don't think Lees is that good. Certainly not better than Itoje and not the equal, of a presumably peak, Bakkies Botha.

But iirc you are a jealous hater who knows nothing about rugby.

That's been true for a while though. I've accepted it and moved on!

englandglory4ever wrote:Itoje is already in the squad 23. So is irrelevant on this one.  When he can be spoken about as a bakkies botha then he will be good. Lees could do that job already. If he hadn't been crocked.

Did I just read that correctly....???

Lees can do the job of Botha?

Besides him being an AUSSIE Ed Slater is better in that role!

Did you not see him play for LW, GF? Closest thing to Bakkies in UK. Even while finding his feet in the just less than a dozen matches he played in the AP last year he demonstrated far more ability than we ever saw from the likes of Johnson and Shaw. If he had not been cruelly robbed by injury we would now be talking about him as the next Lions captain.

DaveM wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Good shout LT.

Personally I'd put him in a similar bracket to Jamie Gibson in that I think he's a good Jeff player but wont ever realistically be an international flanker. His consistent performances would warrant a Saxons opportunity compared to the competition though.

Harrison could cover 6.

Harrison seems to have fallen off a bit at Saints after an excellent start to the season. He has been on the bench for the last 2 weeks and is once again at the weekend. I believe he was on the bench for Saints final 2 ERCC pool games as well. With Wood at 7 and Gibson back he seems to be struggling to hold that starting berth at openside.

king_carlos wrote:

DaveM wrote:

king_carlos wrote:Good shout LT.

Personally I'd put him in a similar bracket to Jamie Gibson in that I think he's a good Jeff player but wont ever realistically be an international flanker. His consistent performances would warrant a Saxons opportunity compared to the competition though.

Harrison could cover 6.

Harrison seems to have fallen off a bit at Saints after an excellent start to the season. He has been on the bench for the last 2 weeks and is once again at the weekend. I believe he was on the bench for Saints final 2 ERCC pool games as well. With Wood at 7 and Gibson back he seems to be struggling to hold that starting berth at openside.

Ok. But Devoto wasn't starting regularly either.

Having seen Wallace's display he'd have to be a contender.

DaveM wrote:
Having seen Wallace's display he'd have to be a contender.

If Wallace can keep playing like that week in and week out, he would deserve a shot. He's been a bit inconsistent in the last couple of seasons. The next 5 games give some of Quins' squad players a chance to get a run of senior games and fingers crossed it will help them develop,