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Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider

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Post by bsando Mon 22 Feb 2016, 10:18 am

First topic message reminder :

Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 Italy10 Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 Scotla10
ITALY VS SCOTLAND

Date: Saturday 27th February 2016
Venue: Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Kick Off: 2:25pm (GMT)
Referee: Jaco Peyper (SARU)
TV Coverage: Live on ITV

Italy snatched a late 22-19 victory over Scotland in last season's corresponding fixture in Edinburgh.

Italy and Scotland have contested a total of 25 rugby test matches since their first meeting in 1996. Italy have won 8 of those matches, whilst Scotland have won 17.

Scotland are on a 9 game losing streak in the 6 Nations.

Teams

Italy
Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 P01m6211
Starting XV
1. Andrea Lovotti
2 Leonardo Ghiraldini
3 Lorenzo Cittadini
4 Marco Fuser
5 Joshua Furno
6 Francesco Minto
7 Alessandro Zanni
8 Sergio Parisse
9 Edoardo Gori
10 Kelly Haimona
11 Mattia Bellini
12 Gonzalo Garcia
13 Michele Campagnaro
14 Leonardo Sarto
15 David Odiete

Replacements

16 Davide Giazzon, 17 Matteo Zanusso,18 Martin Castrogiovanni,19 Valerio Bernabo, 20 Andries Van Schalkwyk, 21 Guglielmo Palazzani, 22 Edoardo Padovani, 23 Andrea Pratichetti.

Scotland
Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 Chef-g10
Starting XV
1. Alasdair Dickinson
2. Ross Ford
3. Willem Nel
4. Richie Gray
5. Johnny Gray
6. John Barclay
7. John Hardie
8. David Denton
9. Greig Laidlaw
10. Finn Russell
11. Tim Visser
12. Duncan Taylor
13. Mark Bennett
14. Tommy Seymour
15. Stuart Hogg

Replacements

16.Stuart MacInally 17. Rory Sutherland 18. Moray Low 19. Tim Swinson 20. Ryan Wilson 21. Sam Hidalgo-Clyne 22. Peter Horne 23. Sean Lamont


Last edited by bsando on Thu 25 Feb 2016, 4:23 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by GLove39 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 3:10 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I think we need Duncan Weir on the bench for his drop goal specialty as much as anything - it is likely to be a tight game!

That brings back memories!  Yahoo  Yahoo  Yahoo
https://vine.co/v/irDUgzMQxnI

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Post by GLove39 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 3:33 pm

Also, god dammit we really, really, really need a win on Saturday!

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Post by BigGee Mon 22 Feb 2016, 4:11 pm

On form Denton should be the one to miss out. Strauss should start at 8 and then either watson or Denton on the bench.

I suspect he will go for a big back row to start though to ride the storm, Hardie, Dents and Strauss with either Wilson or Watson on the bench. I fancy Watson actually as the suspiscion would be that the game will open up. Thats the way England played them and it worked.

The trouble with this game from a Scottish perspective is that we are expected to win it and that has caused us problems in the past, when we seem to freeze. You would hope after the drubbing we gave them in the summer we have got over that though. Time for us to start winning games that we should win and preferably without scaring the cr*p out of the loyal fans in the process!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Mon 22 Feb 2016, 4:13 pm

That Weir drop goal was met by the following reaction of our esteemed Head Coach:

"I had plenty of doubts he'd do it," said Johnson, a smirk almost playing across his face. "I've watched him for the last three weeks and he hasn't looked like landing one in training."

So, in short, it was a fluke!

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Post by GLove39 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 5:08 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:That Weir drop goal was met by the following reaction of our esteemed Head Coach:

"I had plenty of doubts he'd do it," said Johnson, a smirk almost playing across his face. "I've watched him for the last three weeks and he hasn't looked like landing one in training."

So, in short, it was a fluke!

cometh the hour cometh the Meatball!

And speaking of our Director of Rugby's musings, this ones a classic
When I first saw him, Duncan was a short little fat kid, but to be fair he's physically changed


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Post by R!skysports Mon 22 Feb 2016, 5:19 pm

Director of Rugby's musings v2

“Statistics are like bikinis, they show a lot but not the whole thing.” – Scotland interim coach Scott Johnson.

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Post by RDW Mon 22 Feb 2016, 5:42 pm

You've got to be kidding me

Edinburgh Rugby is disappointed to report that lock Grant Glichrist sustained a fracture to a long bone in his forearm during a collision in Friday night’s (19 February) Guinness PRO12 match against Ospreys at the Liberty Stadium.

Gilchrist has seen a specialist and will undergo surgery today.

The injury sustained is not to the same bone that required medical attention prior to Rugby World Cup 2015

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Post by GLove39 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 5:50 pm

That man has no luck whatsoever

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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:09 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:You've got to be kidding me

Edinburgh Rugby is disappointed to report that lock Grant Glichrist sustained a fracture to a long bone in his forearm during a collision in Friday night’s (19 February) Guinness PRO12 match against Ospreys at the Liberty Stadium.

Gilchrist has seen a specialist and will undergo surgery today.

The injury sustained is not to the same bone that required medical attention prior to Rugby World Cup 2015

Does his daily commute include walking under a row of ladders and breaking through a glass mirror to get into the gym??
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Post by RDW Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:12 pm

Looks like that's his season over for Edinburgh and Scotland anyway.

Hopefully toulon will have the same effect on him is it did to sir Jonny!

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:19 pm

He will retire. His body is clearly not capable of playing pro rugby.
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Post by NeilyBroon Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:48 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:He will retire. His body is clearly not capable of playing pro rugby.

Sadly I can't help but agree, no-one has that many consecutive injuries without having to retire.
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Post by RDW Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:52 pm

With a move to toulon on the cards I'd be surprised if he didn't give that a shot!

Plus it's not as if it is repeated concussion, neck injury or chronic knee pain - a broken bone is completely recoverable.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 22 Feb 2016, 6:53 pm

Yeah but he litteraly plays one game and has to live in the hospital for the  best part of a year.

When was the last time he played more than one game in a row?!!!
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Post by bsando Mon 22 Feb 2016, 7:47 pm

We should send Ghilchrist a motivational card or something, what bad luck!!

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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 22 Feb 2016, 8:14 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:Yeah but he litteraly plays one game and has to live in the hospital for the  best part of a year.

When was the last time he played more than one game in a row?!!!

It seems to be largely one off items that should not cause chronic pain later on. He might as well go to the south of France for a high paying salary for a year to be pampered and see if things improve.

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Post by majesticimperialman Mon 22 Feb 2016, 9:36 pm

Think Italy will win this game.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 22 Feb 2016, 10:09 pm

bsando wrote:We should send Ghilchrist a motivational card or something, what bad luck!!

He'd only cut his fingers opening the thing up

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Post by sensisball Mon 22 Feb 2016, 10:41 pm

bad luck for the least physical second row to to play for Scotland in the last decade. maybe "Mr Glass" should just accept that rugby isn't his game and take up something less tough, darts perhaps?
Apparently Toulon were interested in signing him up in place of OConnell!!!!! I don't think he would be able to play more than 2 or 3 games in any one season in France. Remember that he first broke his arm playing lowly Lyon in a European game.
He then broke himself whilst trying to sprint towards the USA scrum half in the world cup. after about 5 steps he tore his groin muscles and ended up in a crumpled heap before the incredulous American scrum half.
Regardless of his merits, or otherwise, as a player if you cant string more than three games together without breaking down then you aren't much use to anyone.

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Post by sensisball Tue 23 Feb 2016, 6:48 am

correction to my last post: Toulon have signed Mr Glass on an undisclosed contract!!!!!!!! Perhaps his latest injury setback will not affect his contract? We will wait with baited breath.

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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 7:32 am

sensisball wrote:bad luck for the least physical second row to to play for Scotland in the last decade. maybe "Mr Glass" should just accept that rugby isn't his game and take up something less tough, darts perhaps?
Apparently Toulon were interested in signing him up in place of OConnell!!!!! I don't think he would be able to play more than 2 or 3 games in any one season in France. Remember that he first broke his arm playing lowly Lyon in a European game.
He then broke himself whilst trying to sprint towards the USA scrum half in the world cup. after about 5 steps he tore his groin muscles and ended up in a crumpled heap before the incredulous American scrum half.
Regardless of his merits, or otherwise, as a player if you cant string more than three games together without breaking down then you aren't much use to anyone.

Jeezo, has Gilchrist recently taken a dump in your garden or something?? That is incredibly harsh IMO. Not least because Al Kellock and Swinson have played 2nd row for Scotland in the last 10 years!

As for the groin injury, it is worth remembering that he made it through what was by all accounts a brutal world cup pre-season - if his body was that bad he surely would have broken down much earlier.

That is two broken arms he's had now - is it possible for someone to have weak bones? If so how has he got this far without breaking every bone in his body? Could it just be incredibly bad luck?

For all the comments about him being weak and lacking physicality, Vern Cotter - a vastly experienced professional rugby coach - deemed him good enough to captain his country (before he got injured!). What do we know eh?

Saying that, this is the same Vern Cotter who picked strokosh and Wilson for the world cup...

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 8:34 am

I don't doubt his physical abilities. Or his fitness or anything like that. I'm starting to doubt his endurance. He breaks all the time!
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Feb 2016, 9:03 am

Gilchrist is a thumping tackler and a complete beast. I honestly don't think we're talking about the same player sensisball! I'd agree that at times he hasn't lived up to his huge potential and not always maximised his huge frame (e.g. at rolling mauls), but I can't think of a single instance where I've felt that he's had a poor game.

Agreed on his injury record, it is a huge concern which is why the Toulon deal came as a surprise to me. Surely what they really want is a consistent squad player who is dependable, not someone like Gilchrist who on is day is a top class player, but manages about two or three days in any calendar year.

Anyway, on the topic of Scotland locks lacking physicality (in no particular order):

- Iain Fullerton
- Stuart Grimes
- Al Kellock
- Tiny Tim Swinson
- Scott MacLeod
- Matt Mustchin

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Post by George Carlin Tue 23 Feb 2016, 9:21 am

Well done to Gilcho if this transfer is a real thing. I really hope he gets the most out of his experience.

Proof that all you need to make your way to the south of France is to be young and large.

We seem to have replaced our usual team rep with the hatchet faced Big Sweary so I attach the image below to correct the balance of this thread and to give Radge and I something nice to look at when we log on to read the various ways in which Scotland will disappoint us yet again.

Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 Pia10
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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 9:24 am

What part of Clydebank is she from GC??

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Post by George Carlin Tue 23 Feb 2016, 9:30 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:What part of Clydebank is she from GC??
The, er, Sydney part.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Feb 2016, 9:42 am

George Carlin wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:What part of Clydebank is she from GC??
The, er, Sydney part.

I was trying to think of some creative ways of shoe-horning more fit birds onto our Scotland threads, and came up with the idea of chicks being eligible by coming from towns/cities which are twinned with either Edinburgh or Glasgow.

Interestingly (in my opinion), Glasgow is twinned with Bethlehem (Palestinian Territories....), which I think explains the Messiah connection rather nicely. It is also twinned with the following: Havana, Lahore, Marseille, Turin, Nuremberg and Cape Town.

Edinburgh: Aalborg, Dunedin, Florence, Munich, Nice, San Diego and Vancouver (even our twinned cities are much nicer than Glasgow's).

I think the most random twinning goes to Stornoway: Pendleton, South Carolina. Go figure.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 10:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Well done to Gilcho if this transfer is a real thing. I really hope he gets the most out of his experience.

Proof that all you need to make your way to the south of France is to be young and large.

We seem to have replaced our usual team rep with the hatchet faced Big Sweary so I attach the image below to correct the balance of this thread and to give Radge and I something nice to look at when we log on to read the various ways in which Scotland will disappoint us yet again.

Italy vs Scotland - The Wooden Spoon Decider - Page 2 Pia10

thank you George
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Post by reallybored Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:01 pm

For me,

15  -  Hogg
14  -  Seymour
13  -  Bennett
12  -  Taylor
11  -  Visser
10  -  Russell
9    -  Laidlaw

8    -  Denton
7    -  Hardie
6    -  Strauss
5    -  Gray
4    -  Gray
3    -  Nel
2    -  Ford
1    -  Dickinson

16 - McInally, 17 - Reid, 18 - Low, 19 - Toolis, 20 - Watson, 21 - HidalgoClyne, 22 - Weir, 23 - Scott

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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:08 pm

That would be my team too reallybored OK

Maybe Sutherland over Reid but not overly fussed either way.

Would be perfectly happy with Barclay off the bench but Watson offers so much more impact - England showed what happens against Italy when you bring impact players off the bench.

I can't see him going with that though - I suspect Swinson and Barclay/Struass will be on the bench.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:19 pm

Yep - agree with that as well. Only quibble would be the bench: I'd include Jackson instead of Weir.

Aren't Edinburgh due to play the Scarlets soon? In which case Barclay should be forced to remain with Scotland.

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Post by SneakySideStep Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:26 pm

The title of this thread and the tone of the comments (expect a slugfest etc) are a deeply depressing comment on NH rugby. Since Italy joined the 6N, how many times could this title have been used? Additionally, the games between these teams are either dominated by howlers or are attritional fodder. It's not as if the other 4 teams are sensational (far from it).

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:29 pm

SneakySideStep wrote:The title of this thread and the tone of the comments (expect a slugfest etc) are a deeply depressing comment on NH rugby. Since Italy joined the 6N, how many times could this title have been used? Additionally, the games between these teams are either dominated by howlers or are attritional fodder. It's not as if the other 4 teams are sensational (far from it).

thank you that's most helpful
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Post by takethelongroad Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:35 pm

Last time we played Italy the score was 48-7! Not quite the blunder-fest or attritional. Hopefully a similar late burst towards the final quarter, England pulled away once nerves were settled with the intercept try, relaxed and played with less inhibition. With luck something similar for us on Safurday...

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Post by IanBru Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:42 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:.Interestingly (in my opinion), Glasgow is twinned with Bethlehem (Palestinian Territories....), which I think explains the Messiah connection rather nicely. It is also twinned with the following: Havana, Lahore, Marseille, Turin, Nuremberg and Cape Town.

Edinburgh: Aalborg, Dunedin, Florence, Munich, Nice, San Diego and Vancouver (even our twinned cities are much nicer than Glasgow's).

I think the most random twinning goes to Stornoway: Pendleton, South Carolina. Go figure.

Where is Ayr twinned with? Ayr, I suspect.

Anything less would be sacrilege.
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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:53 pm

Ayr: Saint-Germain-en-Laye (since 1984).

I have absolutely no idea why. I can't find anything in common between the two, other than the fact that they are "places".

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Post by SRN Tue 23 Feb 2016, 3:55 pm

Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:00 pm

Ingolstadt in Germany is paired with Kirkaldy.

I very much do not want to visit there.

Apparently Dull in Perthshire is paired with Boring in Oregan! Laugh

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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:00 pm

SRN wrote:Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

I don't think he's played badly in either game, he's just not had the massive impact that some people were suggesting.

IMO if he's not starting we have players who offer more impact off the bench.

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Ingolstadt in Germany is paired with Kirkaldy.

I very much do not want to visit there.

Apparently Dull in Perthshire is paired with Boring in Oregan! Laugh

Ingolstadt is lovely went there on a school exchange. The home of Audi motor cars....
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Post by SRN Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

I don't think he's played badly in either game, he's just not had the massive impact that some people were suggesting.

IMO if he's not starting we have players who offer more impact off the bench.

That's fair enough, although he did have a pretty big impact in the RWC warm ups. I for one am hoping he can find his best in the next couple of games.

I agree about the bench. Strauss/Denton bring on a lot more grunt.

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Post by RDW Tue 23 Feb 2016, 4:17 pm

SRN wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

I don't think he's played badly in either game, he's just not had the massive impact that some people were suggesting.

IMO if he's not starting we have players who offer more impact off the bench.

That's fair enough, although he did have a pretty big impact in the RWC warm ups.

To be fair that was when we gave Italy a pumping - everyone looked good that game!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Tue 23 Feb 2016, 5:25 pm

I'm not against Barclay at all. He did fine in the first two games. My reason for opting for Strauss at 6 instead of Barclay is more a horses for courses selection - I want a bit more power on the ball carrying front and some tackling physicality.

As for Barclay vs Watson on the bench, Watson is a bit more of a livewire but again I'd have no concerns should Barclay take on that role.

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Post by SRN Tue 23 Feb 2016, 6:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

I don't think he's played badly in either game, he's just not had the massive impact that some people were suggesting.

IMO if he's not starting we have players who offer more impact off the bench.

That's fair enough, although he did have a pretty big impact in the RWC warm ups.

To be fair that was when we gave Italy a pumping - everyone looked good that game!

True, but wasn't he MoM?

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Post by Nematode Wed 24 Feb 2016, 10:17 am

I reckon we need Harley or Strauss in the back row at 6 and perhaps start with Mcinally.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 24 Feb 2016, 10:27 am

SRN wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
SRN wrote:Do people think Barclay played that badly against Wales?

I don't think he's played badly in either game, he's just not had the massive impact that some people were suggesting.

IMO if he's not starting we have players who offer more impact off the bench.

That's fair enough, although he did have a pretty big impact in the RWC warm ups.

To be fair that was when we gave Italy a pumping - everyone looked good that game!

True, but wasn't he MoM?

He was, and then got dropped to accommodate Ryan Wilson and Al Strokosch. Not one of Cotter's better decisions I must say.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 24 Feb 2016, 10:30 am

Nematode wrote:I reckon we need Harley or Strauss in the back row at 6 and perhaps start with Mcinally.

That would be my logic as well. Italy away doesn't strike me as a good time for the 2x openside combination. The key with Harley is to recognise that he is a blindside flanker and not a lock; that was another concerning decision from Cotter at the World Cup - listing Harley as a lock.

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN Wed 24 Feb 2016, 11:54 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35649516

This is interesting:

Head coach Vern Cotter is set to make several changes after the 27-23 defeat by Wales when he confirms his match-day squad on Thursday.

Glasgow's Josh Strauss is pushing for a start in the back row after a strong outing against Munster last Friday, while Harlequins wing Tim Visser and Glasgow centre Peter Horne are also in contention after recovering from injury problems.

Full-back Stuart Hogg (back) and wing Tommy Seymour (ankle) are set to be passed fit after suffering knocks in Cardiff, while Duncan Taylor could retain the number 12 jersey ahead of fit-again Matt Scott after a strong outing against Wales.


Several changes?

Hopefully to the bench only (and Visser starting with perhaps Strauss).

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Post by MacKnocked-on Wed 24 Feb 2016, 11:55 am

Strauss is captaining Glasgow tomorrow night so unfortunately doesn't look like last week's game has persuaded Cotter. Weir playing for Glasgow as well.
Alarmingly Wilson isn't in the Glasgow squad, surely he can't be in Saturday's squad?!!

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 24 Feb 2016, 11:59 am

I think Strauss and Visser coming in makes the most sense. Horne could find himself on the bench (I'd be surprised if Taylor were to be dropped), although I thought Jackson did a great job last time out covering for Hogg.

If Wilson is picked I will start the "Cotter Out" campaign.

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