6N 2016: England v Wales, 12 March

First topic message reminder :

Seagultaf wrote:

True Raven wrote:Also the decision where foxy got tackled and the ball squirted out to north who had a run in.  To me it looked like an England defender knocked it backwards out of foxys grasp.  It mirrored the Liam Williams tackle in mike brown where he went to the tmo to see if it was a knock on or not.  Why not check both incidents though?

And north from the photos clearly got the ball away before he was out

That's what I Thought also. Not sure who caught the ball when North flicked it in field but he looked clean through on the try line. Very big descision!

Rees Webb!

funnyExiledScot wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

fa0019 wrote:anyone think its apparent Nowell was gassed a couple of times? Hes a great young player, lots of heart and commitment that guys like May simply don't have but his lack of pace seemed to be something teams exploit and in future may even start to earmark. North for instance isn't a speedster but "had" him a couple of times.

Yes, at least twice North left Nowell in the dust. I didn't think North was that quick was it a mental defensive problem with Nowell rather than a sheer lack of pace?

Nowell has a great step and is good over the crucial shorter distances, but he isn't an out and out flyer. He's being used well by England at the moment but I do think that at the very highest level his pace could become an issue, especially in tandem with Brown at 15. Both are fine players and fully committed and at the moment I don't think England have better. Still, I can see someone like May or Wade coming in down the line.

North isn't even known as a flyer though. Imagine what happens when a Habana type comes down his channel; a smart winger with bags of pace.

fa0019 wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:"I think he's perfectly entitled to have a go at his players for that first 40 minutes. "

Yes I agree with you he is, BUT, he shouldn't do it live on TV. That sort of negativity is for behind closed doors only.

When you're nilled and concede 16 points vs an equally matched side at half time, players should be adult enough to accept that coaches should be frank with them. I don't think its disloyal to say in the media they weren't good enough and such performances were unacceptable. They know it.

100% agree. I'm sure the little darlings in the Welsh dressing room will be able to handle a bit of honesty. In any case, are we seriously expecting Gatland to "do a Borthwick" and say that Wales played well during that period? Worst case is that the players are hacked off with Gatland and come out against Italy in that first 40 minutes with something to prove. I'm sure Gatland won't mind that one bit.

fa0019 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

fa0019 wrote:anyone think its apparent Nowell was gassed a couple of times? Hes a great young player, lots of heart and commitment that guys like May simply don't have but his lack of pace seemed to be something teams exploit and in future may even start to earmark. North for instance isn't a speedster but "had" him a couple of times.

Yes, at least twice North left Nowell in the dust. I didn't think North was that quick was it a mental defensive problem with Nowell rather than a sheer lack of pace?

Nowell has a great step and is good over the crucial shorter distances, but he isn't an out and out flyer. He's being used well by England at the moment but I do think that at the very highest level his pace could become an issue, especially in tandem with Brown at 15. Both are fine players and fully committed and at the moment I don't think England have better. Still, I can see someone like May or Wade coming in down the line.

North isn't even known as a flyer though. Imagine what happens when a Habana type comes down his channel; a smart winger with bags of pace.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that England don't have a plethora of credible options, and in fact Nowell on the whole has played well this tournament.

In time England could easily shift to a back three of May, Wade and Watson. No shortage of speed.

VinceWLB wrote:Marler's was a clear uppercut to the face, you can see his fist below Evans's head.

https://twitter.com/trevormurphy73/status/708690727212032000

It was a forearm, scroll down the page to view it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/03/13/joe-marler-apologises-for-gypsy-boy-comment/

VinceWLB wrote:Marler's was a clear uppercut to the face, you can see his fist below Evans's head.

https://twitter.com/trevormurphy73/status/708690727212032000

Based on these videos, Marler is going to find a little trouble heading his way.

Hoonercat wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Marler's was a clear uppercut to the face, you can see his fist below Evans's head.

https://twitter.com/trevormurphy73/status/708690727212032000

It was a forearm, scroll down the page to view it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2016/03/13/joe-marler-apologises-for-gypsy-boy-comment/

Cheers, haven't seen that angle before. Still looks like a strike to the face..

doctor_grey wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Marler's was a clear uppercut to the face, you can see his fist below Evans's head.

https://twitter.com/trevormurphy73/status/708690727212032000

Based on these videos, Marler is going to find a little trouble heading his way.

Absolutely disagree. Marler is using his forearm on the welsh prop to help clear him out to allow the try to be scored. I'm pretty sure the point of initial contact is to the chest area of the Welsh player and then his arm may have ridden up but it is in no way conclusive. Now the eye-gouging is an altogether different story.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

fa0019 wrote:anyone think its apparent Nowell was gassed a couple of times? Hes a great young player, lots of heart and commitment that guys like May simply don't have but his lack of pace seemed to be something teams exploit and in future may even start to earmark. North for instance isn't a speedster but "had" him a couple of times.

Yes, at least twice North left Nowell in the dust. I didn't think North was that quick was it a mental defensive problem with Nowell rather than a sheer lack of pace?

Nowell has a great step and is good over the crucial shorter distances, but he isn't an out and out flyer. He's being used well by England at the moment but I do think that at the very highest level his pace could become an issue, especially in tandem with Brown at 15. Both are fine players and fully committed and at the moment I don't think England have better. Still, I can see someone like May or Wade coming in down the line.

North isn't even known as a flyer though. Imagine what happens when a Habana type comes down his channel; a smart winger with bags of pace.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying that England don't have a plethora of credible options, and in fact Nowell on the whole has played well this tournament.

In time England could easily shift to a back three of May, Wade and Watson. No shortage of speed.

I think he's an excellent player myself. Can't knock players being fully committed but on the wing there is no substitution for pace. England I think need to protect him more, reduce gaps and have him to read even simply plays better. Will come but its something I think management should concentrate on.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

100% agree. I'm sure the little darlings in the Welsh dressing room will be able to handle a bit of honesty. In any case, are we seriously expecting Gatland to "do a Borthwick" and say that Wales played well during that period? Worst case is that the players are hacked off with Gatland and come out against Italy in that first 40 minutes with something to prove. I'm sure Gatland won't mind that one bit.

I'm sure the 'little darlings' can take it, yes.

I'm just saying it should not be public and that Gatland cannot totally distance himself from his own personal failings with regards to preparation, performance, selection and an outdated gameplan which teams like England can quite happily suffocate now.

I've already stated that proving something against Italy is proving nothing. But I'm sure Gatland will indeed love it because it will cover up the cracks yet again.

I agree with the view that the Welsh coaching team are past their sell-by date - though I suspect nothing will be done until we get a real hammering from someone.  Gatland game-plan was based on forward supremacy, big men running straight and hard in the back-line and plenty of aerial Ping-Pong. It hasn't been the same since the scrum laws were changed and AJ left the scene.

Over the next years I see this -

England will get better, perhaps top 3 better. Basically since 2003 they have been held back by a series of muppets / ingenues as coaches  and bad discipline. Eddie Jones is at a different level from Robinson. Ashton, Lancaster, etc. Nobody can rival their strength in depth and demographics are coming to the fore. It is interesting to see so many players - some of them very good indeed  - coming from ethnic minorities to represent their country in what was once a sport for posh white boys.

Scotland will get better. For many years they were a collection of average players.  They now have some serious threats - Hogg, Gray brothers, Taylor, etc.  - and a good coach.

France will get better. They cannot stay this bad. It's just not possible.

Ireland - not sure. They are suffering from the retirement of several all-time greats, but they also have a very canny coach.

Gatland  - YOU have to step up or move on.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

In time England could easily shift to a back three of May, Wade and Watson. No shortage of speed.

Charlie Walker has been scoring tries for fun if we want a winger with gas and quick feet. I hope he gets some Saxons time soon as he's looking very promising. Check his tries against Bath, the acceleration for the second was phenomenal, two players had a start on him and he left them both for dust.

Walker has ridiculous pace, but is barely Premiership level in defence

I think Watson is our long term full back, Nowell/Roko competing for the power wing and May/Yarde/Wade for the speedster.

That being said, I don't see Mr Brown giving up his spot that easily

fa0019 wrote:

englandglory4ever wrote:

fa0019 wrote:anyone think its apparent Nowell was gassed a couple of times? Hes a great young player, lots of heart and commitment that guys like May simply don't have but his lack of pace seemed to be something teams exploit and in future may even start to earmark. North for instance isn't a speedster but "had" him a couple of times.

Yes, at least twice North left Nowell in the dust. I didn't think North was that quick was it a mental defensive problem with Nowell rather than a sheer lack of pace?

Maybe a bit of awareness but the crucial thing is that he doesn't have that pace to make up for it. Take Brown, he's such a good reader of the game that his lack of pace is never an issue in defence. Jonny May too can always count of his pace to get him out of situations where he's been caught napping. Nowell has yet to develop that first class reading of the game IMO and its a definitive weakness teams will/should exploit. You can't knock his commitment mind and sometimes I'd rather have a limited committed guy then a class chap with wavering interest.

Nowell was in a difficult position - Wales were a man up, Robshaw was off the pitch with a prop in his place and Tuilagi was clearly lacking both sharpness and line speed. England's defensive system was struggling to adapt and Wales exploited it; as a result, Nowell was having to cover a much wider expanse of pitch than usual.

He's not short of defensive pace, as his try saving tackle against Ireland showed. He does have more to learn about positional awareness, but how many 22 year olds are top notch positionally, especially when they're still pretty new to international rugby?

englandglory4ever wrote:

RiscaGame wrote:I could almost understand Marler not receiving a ban for the forearm (if there was sound reasoning), but for it to not even warrant a citing isn't on. It does deserve looking at.

If you think that warrants a citing then you need to go off and watch a more genteel sport. That sort of thing, a nudge here and a nudge there happens at every single contact. It was not a punch it was a push with the forearm at worst. Some people should grow up.

Yes, people like Marler should grow up. I fully agree. This fake hard man image does nothing for the game.

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

BamBam wrote:Walker has ridiculous pace, but is barely Premiership level in defence

I think Watson is our long term full back, Nowell/Roko competing for the power wing and May/Yarde/Wade for the speedster.

That being said, I don't see Mr Brown giving up his spot that easily

Absolutely. Walker is frequently not even a speedbump in defence - he's brushed off far too easily, though on Friday he was at least causing defenders to change their lines into the path of other defenders.

Watson's looking increasingly comfortable under the high ball, and could challenge Brown if he continues to develop his physicality. For the moment I think Brown's defence and ability to beat the first man give him the edge - but I'd like him to rediscover the aggression that saw him barrelling over the line with defenders hanging off him back in 2014.

glamorganalun wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

True Raven wrote:Also the decision where foxy got tackled and the ball squirted out to north who had a run in.  To me it looked like an England defender knocked it backwards out of foxys grasp.  It mirrored the Liam Williams tackle in mike brown where he went to the tmo to see if it was a knock on or not.  Why not check both incidents though?

And north from the photos clearly got the ball away before he was out

That's what I Thought also. Not sure who caught the ball when North flicked it in field but he looked clean through on the try line. Very big descision!

Rees Webb!

Even that Cyclops Jonathan (SS) Davies conceded on Sunday that it was irrelevant if North was in or out before he got the ball away as Itoje was covering the receiver and in Davies's own words, would have put him into the third row of the stand anyway.

But if we had re-gathered the ball, which we would have, I do believe we'd have scored again. Webb would have been tackled but it's hardly an irrelevant decision - it was a big one as Wales were in the ascendancy.

BamBam wrote:Walker has ridiculous pace, but is barely Premiership level in defence

I think Watson is our long term full back, Nowell/Roko competing for the power wing and May/Yarde/Wade for the speedster.

That being said, I don't see Mr Brown giving up his spot that easily

Who is brave enough to tell him he is dropped?

How did he not score in the corner is beyond me?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

I don't think we can blame Edwards for that. Our players were getting sidestepped a lot, and when Wales were chasing the ball up field the first player there would usually miss the tackle. I'm pretty sure Edwards doesn't coach them to miss tackles.

Fresh start needed for Wales all round me thinks. The coaches have had more life's than Mike Brown has been told to calm down.

Eddie out coached Gatland on this one. Eddie did his analysis and inspired his team to play in a way that exploited Wales weaknesses. Gatland just went with the "We won't worry too much what the opposition do we'll just concentrate on our own game stuff."

mikey_dragon wrote:But if we had re-gathered the ball, which we would have, I do believe we'd have scored again. Webb would have been tackled but it's hardly an irrelevant decision - it was a big one as Wales were in the ascendancy.

Unlikely, as has been said, the receiver was well covered and would have been taken out.

It is irrelevant, because Wales didn't score anyway.

mikey_dragon wrote:But if we had re-gathered the ball, which we would have, I do believe we'd have scored again. Webb would have been tackled but it's hardly an irrelevant decision - it was a big one as Wales were in the ascendancy.

Too many "would haves", "if we had", "we'd have" to be a serious comment.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

I don't think we can blame Edwards for that. Our players were getting sidestepped a lot, and when Wales were chasing the ball up field the first player there would usually miss the tackle. I'm pretty sure Edwards doesn't coach them to miss tackles.

Of course he doesn't coach them to miss tackles, and he'll have been furious with the number they missed. I just can't believe anyone can have watched the match and thought it was a solid defensive effort.

Em............ just what did Welsh fans expect?

I think they're being much too critical of what transpired in the game and much too naïve in being annoyed that what they expected to happen - didn't.

I've already said how I felt England were overplayed too in the commentaries at the weekend - that they're not invincible and that I always knew Wales had it in them to fight back and make it dicey in the end - but on the other side, just what were Welsh fans expecting?

Before the WC, England were a side on the up, playing an exciting brand of attack rugby where threats rushed onto you from every angle and you knew you were going to be on to a heavy-breather of a game in trying to defend against them.  Then during the WC, they kind of unravelled.  But that had nothing to with their innate abilities.  It was simply a bad management exercise that shot themselves in the foot even before they began their campaign, as Lancaster chose to break up their earlier rhythm by changing personnel at the last moment and hoping the fluidity would continue for England.
It didn't.  But they still were winning their game against Wales (some might say comfortably enough) until they got around to fluffing it all up and letting Wales back in.  Wales are good enough to not need too much inviting and got across the line that time - just.

But I can't see where then they felt that they'd come to Twickers a second time and now instead of crawling in to the winners post just like last time, that somehow this time they'd simply outplay an England now coached by a SH coach with as much gritty attitude as Gatland.

So, I think Welsh fans are being too hard on themselves.  England have been the form team of this tournament.  They are the best side in the NH at the moment and it was always going to be a struggle for Wales to go to London, survive the onslaught and come out victors.  Once again, through force of will, they nearly made it again.  But to have expected more than transpired is a touch delusional.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

But still only conceded 1 try against the Grandslam champs, who were testing us for most of the game. I'd call that a solid defensive effort.

All the talk from Wales pre game was about how they didn't fear Twickers anymore and couldn't wait to get out there.
Maybe they should have respected England a bit more and not run their mouths off so much, and maybe jus maybe had come with a game plan to beat England rather than just try and play Warrenball.

GavCanDance wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

But still only conceded 1 try against the Grandslam champs, who were testing us for most of the game.  I'd call that a solid defensive effort.  

Ask Shaun Edwards if he thinks that was a solid defensive effort.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GavCanDance wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

But still only conceded 1 try against the Grandslam champs, who were testing us for most of the game.  I'd call that a solid defensive effort.  

Ask Shaun Edwards if he thinks that was a solid defensive effort.

lol and make sure you are near an exit.

TightHEAD wrote:All the talk from Wales pre game was about how they didn't fear Twickers anymore and couldn't wait to get out there.
Maybe they should have respected England a bit more and not run their mouths off so much, and maybe jus maybe had come with a game plan to beat England rather than just try and play Warrenball.

Yeah, All that rubbish from Wales was a tad on the arrogant side. Big headed even.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

GavCanDance wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

But still only conceded 1 try against the Grandslam champs, who were testing us for most of the game.  I'd call that a solid defensive effort.  

Ask Shaun Edwards if he thinks that was a solid defensive effort.

Uhm... OK (?)...

Shaun Edwards: "You have two options for leaving this room. Through the door you came in.... or through the wall I'm going to put you through if you don't make it to the door in time."

I agree Fly, in the days after these matches both sets of fans think and write in extremes. Wales were poor for 50 minutes and completely outplayed by the far better team. They couldn't handle the pressure. At the end there was some satisfaction on the scoreboard at least but the "Wales are shoite and England are now the RWC elect writings" are written by the euphoria - What did I expect, well my forecast was England 26 Wales 18 - Far too much being said in emotion and extremes which always happens in the few days after a game between these 2. If they played next week in Cardiff Wales could easily win it. It's fine lines, but if you don't perform for 50 minutes and fall off tackles which was a bit unusual as some of these were not difficult then you are unlikely to win. A strange game but Wales need to lose like this before changes are forthcoming. We just need some tweaking IMO alongside a different mind set, e.g. go out and express yourself from the start, be confident and take the game to the oppo just like England did which set the tone. Halfpenny, Liam Williams instead of Cuthbert and Scott Williams as a powerful creative option in the middle will help Wales in the future. My main wish is for a foreign world class backs coach. In essence there's little wrong with this welsh team and those that think otherwise are just plain foolish. Well played England that went some way to repairing the 30-3 defeat in the similar fixture a few years ago

GavCanDance wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:No Way are Wales in crisis they have one of the best defence's in the world and that's why England were not further ahead.

GavCanDance wrote:Shaun Edwards is the only coach in the Wales camp who his earning his place, with another solid defensive effort from the team.

We missed 19 tackles in the first half! 'Solid defensive effort' my foot!

But still only conceded 1 try against the Grandslam champs, who were testing us for most of the game.  I'd call that a solid defensive effort.  

But at the price of conceding 6 kickable penalties - 4 of them before you had a point on the board. Better than conceding a try, maybe, but it all adds up.

3 tries to 1

So did wales win the moral victory?

TightHEAD wrote:All the talk from Wales pre game was about how they didn't fear Twickers anymore and couldn't wait to get out there.
Maybe they should have respected England a bit more and not run their mouths off so much, and maybe jus maybe had come with a game plan to beat England rather than just try and play Warrenball.

Or they could have said that they feared the place and were really scared???

Griff wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:All the talk from Wales pre game was about how they didn't fear Twickers anymore and couldn't wait to get out there.
Maybe they should have respected England a bit more and not run their mouths off so much, and maybe jus maybe had come with a game plan to beat England rather than just try and play Warrenball.

Or they could have said that they feared the place and were really scared???

or could have said nothing and respected England's fans, players and HQ.

TightHEAD wrote:3 tries to 1

So did wales win the moral victory?

Yeah. Unfortunately they don't count for much.

Tell me, now that England have won, is the 6N good again? Just a couple weeks ago people of all nations were stating that this year's tournament is one of the worst they've seen...

Jimpy wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:But if we had re-gathered the ball, which we would have, I do believe we'd have scored again. Webb would have been tackled but it's hardly an irrelevant decision - it was a big one as Wales were in the ascendancy.

Unlikely, as has been said, the receiver was well covered and would have been taken out.

It is irrelevant, because Wales didn't score anyway.

Yeah, we could have easily got turned over. The point is that it was a big call to make, and ultimately the wrong one. Sometimes things go your way and other times they go against you, just the way it is.

OR... We could all grow the hell up. Seriously people - get a fakking grip...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9925180/Six-Nations-2013-Andy-Farrell-says-England-will-not-fear-Millennium-Stadium-cauldron-with-Grand-Slam-at-stake.html

Griff wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:All the talk from Wales pre game was about how they didn't fear Twickers anymore and couldn't wait to get out there.
Maybe they should have respected England a bit more and not run their mouths off so much, and maybe jus maybe had come with a game plan to beat England rather than just try and play Warrenball.

Or they could have said that they feared the place and were really scared???

Could both teams not have simply said they're looking forward to the game and hopefully, with a little luck and skill, win it???

Why does rugby need the thrash-talk publicity at all? From either side. I'm personally not against it - it's entertainment of a kind but still.... these two hombres (Gatland and Eddie) they seem to think they're letting down their 'National character' if they don't have a few smart dismissive lines to throw at the 'enemy' every time they sit on the interviewers perch. Not all SH coaches feel that need to brand themselves "straight-talkin' Kiwi's, mite!"

samuraidragon wrote:
England will get better, perhaps top 3 better. Basically since 2003 they have been held back by a series of muppets / ingenues as coaches  and bad discipline. Eddie Jones is at a different level from Robinson. Ashton, Lancaster, etc.  Nobody can rival their strength in depth and demographics are coming to the fore. It is interesting to see so many players - some of them very good indeed  - coming from ethnic minorities to represent their country in what was once a sport for posh white boys.

Great isn't it. I say replace the government with minorities. Have Muslims run the education system, we'll bring in Colombians to run policing and Africans can run public services and a Jewish socialist for prime minister.

The Majority are now a downtrodden species on the way to extinction.... and nobody don't care!!!!!!!!!!!

mikey_dragon wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:3 tries to 1

So did wales win the moral victory?

Yeah. Unfortunately they don't count for much.

Tell me, now that England have won, is the 6N good again? Just a couple weeks ago people of all nations were stating that this year's tournament is one of the worst they've seen...

No, it's still one of the worst 6 nations I can remember, from an entertainment perspective. Maybe tight defences are strangling open play, maybe there was a WC hangover from the other contenders which flattered England slightly, though in fairness they did produce some of the most attractive rugby albeit it not for a full game.

RubyGuby wrote:I agree Fly, in the days after these matches both sets of fans think and write in extremes. Wales were poor for 50 minutes and completely outplayed by the far better team. They couldn't handle the pressure. At the end there was some satisfaction on the scoreboard at least but the "Wales are shoite and England are now the RWC elect writings" are written by the euphoria - What did I expect, well my forecast was England 26 Wales 18 - Far too much being said in emotion and extremes which always happens in the few days after a game between these 2. If they played next week in Cardiff Wales could easily win it. It's fine lines, but if you don't perform for 50 minutes and fall off tackles which was a bit unusual as some of these were not difficult then you are unlikely to win. A strange game but Wales need to lose like this before changes are forthcoming. We just need some tweaking IMO alongside a different mind set, e.g. go out and express yourself from the start, be confident and take the game to the oppo just like England did which set the tone. Halfpenny, Liam Williams instead of Cuthbert and Scott Williams as a powerful creative option in the middle will help Wales in the future. My main wish is for a foreign world class backs coach. In essence there's little wrong with this welsh team and those that think otherwise are just plain foolish. Well played England that went some way to repairing the 30-3 defeat in the similar fixture a few years ago

Guppy fish is back from the bottom of the pond, hanging on to an historical win and already starting a fight.. You lost this one and the last 2 X 6nS games Guppy fish. You were well and truly Eddie'd.

Hoonercat wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:3 tries to 1

So did wales win the moral victory?

Yeah. Unfortunately they don't count for much.

Tell me, now that England have won, is the 6N good again? Just a couple weeks ago people of all nations were stating that this year's tournament is one of the worst they've seen...

No, it's still one of the worst 6 nations I can remember, from an entertainment perspective. Maybe tight defences are strangling open play, maybe there was a WC hangover from the other contenders which flattered England slightly, though in fairness they did produce some of the most attractive rugby albeit it not for a full game.

I think there's a bit of a WC hangover for most teams, and Italy are back to being hopeless. England have been the best though, and the history books will say it was a tournament win (possible grand slam) for England, and not go into detail about how it was perhaps a poor tournament.

When does Eddie get the Knighthood? You gotta have a 'Sir' leading a Grand Slam side surely???? It ain't proper not to!

Either England played well for 50-60 minutes or Wales played badly for 50-60 minutes, or both.
The turnaround definitely came after Youngs terrible pass led to Fords kick being charged down.
Why did England go to pieces thereafter? Was it the subsequent change in personnel - taking Farrell out of the 12 slot for Manu? Was it simply Wales remembered they know how to beat England?
What do other people think? I didn't think about it at the time. I was too busy praying for the clock to show 80 minutes.
Whatever the reason I hope EJ is doing something about it.

Hoonercat wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:3 tries to 1

So did wales win the moral victory?

Yeah. Unfortunately they don't count for much.

Tell me, now that England have won, is the 6N good again? Just a couple weeks ago people of all nations were stating that this year's tournament is one of the worst they've seen...

No, it's still one of the worst 6 nations I can remember, from an entertainment perspective. Maybe tight defences are strangling open play, maybe there was a WC hangover from the other contenders which flattered England slightly, though in fairness they did produce some of the most attractive rugby albeit it not for a full game.

No. The 6Ns is like chalk and cheese. The quality of rugby is pretty poor generally and won't bother any of the SH sides including Argentina. On the other-hand, the fan based tribal warfare is probably world class. When you have serial wummers like Guppy fish and Glad stirring the pot it all gets a bit needle like.