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This is why I love Eddie Jones.

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This is why I love Eddie Jones. Empty This is why I love Eddie Jones.

Post by TightHEAD Fri 15 Apr 2016, 3:47 pm

England coach Eddie Jones has warned that a handful of Grand Slam winners are at risk of missing out on the summer tour of Australia.

He says some of those involved in the Six Nations win have not played well enough since returning to their clubs.

"Personally I've been disappointed in three or four players who have gone back [to their clubs] and played quite poorly"



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Post by bluestonevedder Fri 15 Apr 2016, 4:19 pm

Exactly. None of this 'credit in the bank' crud to rely on when they're playing poorly.

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Post by True Raven Fri 15 Apr 2016, 4:25 pm

I always assumed that England named an initial squad of 30ish players and the Saxons named a squad of similar size and then the England coach has to pick a matchday 23 from the initial squad of players chosen.

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Post by majesticimperialman Fri 15 Apr 2016, 4:46 pm

I agree with EJ. This as been England's down fall in the past. Once a player had made the team he seemed undropable. I do believe if SL had taken this stance and not kept relying on the same old same old. England may not have gone home early in the RWC.

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Post by nathan Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:15 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I agree with EJ. This as been England's down fall in the past. Once a player had made the team he seemed undropable. I do believe if SL had taken this stance and not kept relying on the same old same old. England may not have gone home early in the RWC.
But those same old same old players are largely the players that have just won the six nations

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Post by lostinwales Fri 15 Apr 2016, 5:24 pm

And we have also complained a fair amount about too much chopping and changing.

The problems associated with lots of players of similar ability where someone might have a bad game then disappear forever (like, say, Sharples)

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Post by LondonTiger Sat 16 Apr 2016, 8:12 am

Harrison outperformed BillyV last week, so surely hevshould replace the big Tongan lad?

I suspect Jones is just putting a rocket up the squad's collective arse.

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Post by Armchairexpert Sat 16 Apr 2016, 11:51 am

So who do you the few disappointing ones have been?

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Post by Hammersmith harrier Sat 16 Apr 2016, 11:54 am

Whether he drops anyone or not he has to let the players know that they have to keep performing to be selected; Lancaster persisted with the likes of Youngs, Wood and Barritt despite playing poorly, can't see EJ making the same mistake.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 17 Apr 2016, 11:10 am

LondonTiger wrote:Harrison outperformed BillyV last week, so surely hevshould replace the big Tongan lad?

I suspect Jones is just putting a rocket up the squad's collective arse.

Worked with Wood yesterday, eying up Haskell's shirt I should think.
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Post by SecretFly Sun 17 Apr 2016, 12:30 pm

Reasons to love Eddie?  Hmmm, an outsider might read his words very differently and suggest that it could be construed as a classic 'Getting Your Excuses in Early' routine.

Either way, Eddie better be careful of feeling the God Complex too soon in his tenure, as in he would be at risk of fatally exposing himself to a savage English media if he acts like he always knows how to chop and change a 'settled' or 'settling' team to achieve the results.  Not many coaches in the International world truly can do that with any great success..... and AP and even European rugby ain't International at the highest level.  

Players that feel they've done enough at International will instinctively maybe take the foot off the peddle a little back at Club to preserve their better selves for those very Internationals.  Indeed, other players not in contention then try to play out of their skins to make the grade.  But that doesn't mean the top-dog players have suddenly become bad or that the Club speedboys have suddenly become viable alternatives.

It would be unwise of Eddie not to admit the truth of that and choose a new batch of players to go down South with.  A mine field that might see a very quick ending to the honeymoon.

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Post by fa0019 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 10:26 am

SecretFly wrote:Reasons to love Eddie?  Hmmm, an outsider might read his words very differently and suggest that it could be construed as a classic 'Getting Your Excuses in Early' routine.

Either way, Eddie better be careful of feeling the God Complex too soon in his tenure, as in he would be at risk of fatally exposing himself to a savage English media if he acts like he always knows how to chop and change a 'settled' or 'settling' team to achieve the results.  Not many coaches in the International world truly can do that with any great success..... and AP and even European rugby ain't International at the highest level.  

Players that feel they've done enough at International will instinctively maybe take the foot off the peddle a little back at Club to preserve their better selves for those very Internationals.  Indeed, other players not in contention then try to play out of their skins to make the grade.  But that doesn't mean the top-dog players have suddenly become bad or that the Club speedboys have suddenly become viable alternatives.

It would be unwise of Eddie not to admit the truth of that and choose a new batch of players to go down South with.  A mine field that might see a very quick ending to the honeymoon.

I think this is something that a coach like Eddie will want to quash. In SH rugby that would be unthinkable. You don't see guys like Eben Etzebeth going half measures in club rugby. Rest them sure but when they play, they must play like its their last game on earth.
He's just playing games with his players minds. Keeping them on their toes and building competition rather than settling for a natural order.... i.e. The SL "player x has the shirt and has done well... so I won't drop him until he plays badly". What happened when Danny Care had a howler against SA in 2014, lost the jersey to Wigglesworth who was average at best (but didn't do anything wrong so SL was loyal to him).

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 1:53 pm

I still say Eddie talks the big talk of the coach with the big stick a lot. It's as much about him solidifying his image as a hard-man coach as it is a concern about whatever players he's concerned about fa.

I keep remembering his big mouth before the Scotland game at the World Cup. Like Gatland before him, sometimes better to just quietly coach in the background and quit the public Caesar-like pronouncements.....

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Post by beshocked Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:I still say Eddie talks the big talk of the coach with the big stick a lot.  It's as much about him solidifying his image as a hard-man coach as it is a concern about whatever players he's concerned about fa.

I keep remembering his big mouth before the Scotland game at the World Cup.  Like Gatland before him, sometimes better to just quietly coach in the background and quit the public Caesar-like pronouncements.....

4 days recovery time would hurt any team.

Japan were stitched up. Having to play a fresh Scotland after the physical battering they got from SA.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:11 pm

Scotland sliced them to pieces.... and the smarmy words of Jones were left ringing in his own ears.

He has the propensity for foot-in-mouth. No harm in it. I like a vocal opinionated coach, for the entertainment levels. Not sure I'd like to have one coaching my National side though. I think I'd be constantly muttering under my breath.. "Keep it quiet.... keep it quiet. Stop shooting your mouth off. It's us that'll have to face the embarrassment."

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:14 pm

Jones is one of those coaches who takes the attention away from the team though and makes it about him. Works well on the whole but can make people think he's a ****.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:26 pm

I've heard that theory before 7&1/2.  I'm not sure I can dissect it logically and believe it though.  I think a mouthy coach only puts more pressure on his players.  He dictates how games will be or should be and he drops them into the game to prove him right. They have to prove 'his' arrogance or 1. - they get it in the neck from the sneering masses of the opposition after the game.  They get it as much as the coach gets it.  2. - They get it from their own coach, who is now sore that his words weren't backed up by his players.  So he shifts blame onto the players and says some of them proved they ain't up to the task of backing up his words of wisdom before games.

No, I think it's the reverse.  A mouthy coach always puts extra pressure on his own players (and indeed puts pressure on the fan base too).  I love the entertainment, as I've admitted.  But I'd much prefer a quiet guy to coach my teams of choice.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:29 pm

Well it's interesting that we (England) have those 2 coaches recently in Lancaster and Jones. 2 contrasting ways of managing the press.

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Post by lostinwales Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:I've heard that theory before 7&1/2.  I'm not sure I can dissect it logically and believe it though.  I think a mouthy coach only puts more pressure on his players.  He dictates how games will be or should be and he drops them into the game to prove him right. They have to prove 'his' arrogance or 1. - they get it in the neck from the sneering masses of the opposition after the game.  They get it as much as the coach gets it.  2. - They get it from their own coach, who is now sore that his words weren't backed up by his players.  So he shifts blame onto the players and says some of them proved they ain't up to the task of backing up his words of wisdom before games.

No, I think it's the reverse.  A mouthy coach always puts extra pressure on his own players (and indeed puts pressure on the fan base too).  I love the entertainment, as I've admitted.  But I'd much prefer a quiet guy to coach my teams of choice.

Depends upon what they say and how they say it. In the 6N it did seem that EJ was doing his bit (by mouthing off) to attract attention away from the players and it did seem to work

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:40 pm

Problem with Lancaster though... is I think he was also quiet as a coach.

Oh NO!  Oh NO, NO, NO!  That's not what I'd want.

I'd assume Eddie has a big bark in training.  And I think that's his most important 'Real' role.  And I wouldn't have it any other way.

Schmidt is an angel in public...but he's known to be demanding in a direct way behind the scenes.  It ain't a cooperative.  It's a 'Me Boss - You Listen'.  

No, I'm only talking about Eddie's public persona.  I wouldn't have an issue with his private coaching personality at all.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:44 pm

lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I've heard that theory before 7&1/2.  I'm not sure I can dissect it logically and believe it though.  I think a mouthy coach only puts more pressure on his players.  He dictates how games will be or should be and he drops them into the game to prove him right. They have to prove 'his' arrogance or 1. - they get it in the neck from the sneering masses of the opposition after the game.  They get it as much as the coach gets it.  2. - They get it from their own coach, who is now sore that his words weren't backed up by his players.  So he shifts blame onto the players and says some of them proved they ain't up to the task of backing up his words of wisdom before games.

No, I think it's the reverse.  A mouthy coach always puts extra pressure on his own players (and indeed puts pressure on the fan base too).  I love the entertainment, as I've admitted.  But I'd much prefer a quiet guy to coach my teams of choice.

Depends upon what they say and how they say it. In the 6N it did seem that EJ was doing his bit (by mouthing off) to attract attention away from the players and it did seem to work

Well, that's an argument that would have two opinions. What worked was the behind the scenes coaching. That's what worked. Tying up loose ends and making players truly believe they had the salt to win the damn thing. I don't think the 'distraction' thing about public pronouncements is ever provable. I don't believe it anyway. I think all sides and all fan bases were still gunning for the newly confident English side. The players as individuals were still very much in the rifle sights of the public debates.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:46 pm

I suppose the most famous outspoken coach across sports is Ferguson for Man U. Creasted a us against the world mentality. Put pressure on refs, took it off his players. Generally worked, but I didn't like it. So far for England Jones has been the correct side of the line for me, doesn't mean he won't go too far in the future like.

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Post by aucklandlaurie Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:50 pm

I dont think Eddie could give a flying F..k what the media think of him (Similar to Aussie Michael Cheka).
However if I was a member of the media, I would be a fool to miss one of Eddies press conferences.

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Post by SecretFly Mon 18 Apr 2016, 3:56 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote: [b]I dont think Eddie could give a flying F..k what the media think of him.

Oh I'm certain he doesn't, Laurie. But that don't matter. They'll be the ones that decide how long he gets. Without a shadow of a doubt.... they'll decide, not his RFU bosses. So they're an important ingredient, even though he doesn't give a schidt. Wink

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Post by englandglory4ever Mon 18 Apr 2016, 6:01 pm

Eddie says a lot in the media that's designed to light a fire under the England wannabes. He keeps them on their toes and is trying to raise the bar very quickly. He wants England to win and knows that without serious improvement from where they were at the RWC they won't. Will his style work? Who knows but the players are behind him so far. Well at least some of them are. Not sure about the fictional 3/4 that are not stepping up.

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Post by beshocked Tue 19 Apr 2016, 9:19 am

Secretfly not surprised Japan got sliced to pieces, 4 days of recovery time isn't enough. Only team to get proper rest was England - that wasn't fair. England couldn't even exploit the extra rest time either.


Little bit worrying that he's fond of a bloke called Teo. He's not the Jamie Vardy of the rugby world.

I hope it's just hoodwinking the media, if not it just seems like a Lancaster move - getting infatuated with a RL player.

I know our strength in depth at centre isn't great but I would pick Mallinder instead of Teo.

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 19 Apr 2016, 11:04 am

beshocked wrote:... it just seems like a Lancaster move - getting infatuated with a RL player...
Jones isn't averse to fielding league players. He used Sailor, Rogers & Tuqiri with the Wallabies, and Craig Wing with Japan.

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Post by beshocked Tue 19 Apr 2016, 11:15 am

Good point rugby fan.

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Post by englandglory4ever Thu 21 Apr 2016, 10:51 am

What I have absolute confidence in is that Eddie recognises a good test quality player when he sees one. Conversely, I'm absolutely certain that if he says a talented player is not ready for test rugby then he is pretty much on the money. If he does pick T'eo then he won't be far wrong. One thing is certain though and that is many Union fans, including me, will never have seen T'eo play so know sweet FA about him.

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Post by DirtyRucker7 Sat 23 Apr 2016, 4:56 pm

Articles like this are why i love TightHead3 , he bleeds the rose he clearly thinks he is a big lad telling all us he is a tighthead prop. I feel how tough he is just through the screen.
TightHead3 you da man.

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