Viewing figures

I can never find proper viewing figures, but BARB seem to have some out now;


BT Sport Europe (w/e ‎15‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016)

EUROPEAN RUGBY CHAMPIONS CUP (SAT 1545) 131,000
EUROPEAN RUGBY CHALLENGE CUP (FRI 1900) 78,000



Sky Sports 2 (w/e ‎15‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016)

LIVE EUROPEAN RUGBY FINAL (SAT 1537) 121,000

Latest week available at the minute, will be interesting to see the other finals.

BT Sport 1 w/e ‎01‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016

#1 BARCLAYS PREMIER LEAGUE (SUN 1115) 369,000
#2 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SUN 1504) 106,000
#3 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SUN 1422) 87,000
#4 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1430) 78,000
#5 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (FRI 1900) 71,000

Very strong showing of Jeff games at top of listing for BT Sport

TG4 Top 10 April 2016
GAA BEO 2015 - 2016
Laochra - The GAA Commemorate 1916
Rugbaí Beo Guinness Pro 12 2015 - 2016
Laochra Gael 2016
Glór Tíre 12
An Fear Bréige
Punchestown Festival Preview 2016
NUACHT TG4 2016
The Run of the Country
Pale Rider

3rd most popular thing on TG4 for April (doesn't provide actual figure though) - Source TAM Ireland

For the sake of reference, Pro 12 final viewing figures was 379,000 last season on Sky. I'm curious to hear what it will be this year, i suspect a bit lower but not sure.

From BARB

w/e 29 May 2016
BT SPORT 1 - AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1400) 146,000
Sky Sports 3 - LIVE PRO 12 RUGBY UNION (SAT 1701) 18,000 (!)
Sky Sports 3 - #1 LIVE INTERNATIONAL RUGBY UNION: ENGLAND (SUN 1430) 267,000


w/e ‎22‎ ‎May‎ ‎2016
BT Sport 1
#1 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1445) 144,000
#3 AVIVA PREMIERSHIP RUGBY (SAT 1200) 123,000

Still nothing from TAM Ireland for May yet.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:From BARB

w/e 29 May 2016
Sky Sports 3 - LIVE PRO 12 RUGBY UNION (SAT 1701) 18,000 (!)

18,000 people watched the Pro12 final live ?

The 18k seems a wild underestimation. Does that include recording (I watched it about 2 hours after the fact)?

With both teams being Irish I would expect a bump to the Irish broadcast and a dent in the UK market but still thought maybe 3/4 of last years would have watched. There were 36k in the stadium alone. The game was certainly a lot more entertaining than the Aviva final!

Are there any links available to this information? It doesn't seem to be on the BARB site

Dai Llewod wrote:Are there any links available to this information? It doesn't seem to be on the BARB site

You have to dig a bit to find it now!

http://www.barb.co.uk/viewing-data/weekly-top-10/

That correct Sin é. Dai, the weekly top 10 for each station gives the viewing figure. Takes a bit of time to drill in to get it, but that is per BARB.

TAMIreland is far slower (months) at releasing details. They will show the top 10 shows on a channel but don't seem to give viewing figures.

BARB figures have the following caveats;
==============================
Programmes of less than 5 minutes duration are excluded from these reports.

The programme audience is the average audience of all the minutes covered by the programme transmission (excluding commercial breaks and promotions).

Where * is shown, the figures are small but not zero.

Weekly programme information on this website is initially posted 8 days after the end of the week. It may subsequently be updated 6 weeks later to include any amendments made by broadcasters to the transmission logs originally provided, and to allow for inclusion of programme data where transmission logs were not provided in time for the initial data release.
====================================

So viewing figures cover the people watching it live, playbacks and recordings/downloads aren't taken into account. But still, what a figure.

Those must be the figures only for England..

From 379 000 to 18 000 with the brand of Rugby Connacht have been playing, i don't buy that...

VinceWLB wrote:Those must be the figures only for England..

From 379 000 to 18 000 with the brand of Rugby Connacht have been playing, i don't buy that...

I was watching on a four hour delay watching from NYC on a 32 degree day (or something in farenheit), resisting the temptation to check update son my phone.

That would have to be the England only figures, the game was also on TG4, which isn't represented on the website yu were looking at there. I prefer watching it as Gaelige to test how well I still have the cupla focal anyway. I'll have no idea what they are saying then hear something like "Ooohh Henshaw ag imirt go hiontach!". Little known fact, the Irish for Bundee Aki is Bundee Aki.

Also how do they account for people watching in pubs? I would say all the watering holes in galway were more wedged than normal!

More people watched Greyhound racing than watched the PrO'12 final on Sky.

A peak of 192,000 watched the final on free to air TG4 in Ireland, the company who paid €900,000 for rights to the PrO'12. Sky, who paid £5.5m, got 18,000. There may be some more who watched it on Sky Ireland.

You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

PhilBB wrote:More people watched Greyhound racing than watched the PrO'12 final on Sky.

A peak of 192,000 watched the final on free to air TG4 in Ireland, the company who paid €900,000 for rights to the PrO'12. Sky, who paid £5.5m, got 18,000. There may be some more who watched it on Sky Ireland.

You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

Hey PhilBB, do you have a link to where the 192,000 comes from for the TG4, I want to try and pull for the other games also.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Hey PhilBB, do you have a link to where the 192,000 comes from for the TG4, I want to try and pull for the other games also.

My mistake. It was an average of 187,000

http://www.tg4.ie/en/corporate/press/press-releases/2016-2/16-05-16-2/

PhilBB wrote: You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

Because when Sky do what happens ? The PRO12 collapses and the English come like knights on white chargers to save the Welsh from bankruptcy ?
Meanwhile the Irish and Scots struggle and professional rugby in Italy goes under completely, which effectively also means that we have to remove Italy from the Six Nations and go back to five.
And what happens to Welsh rugby if the English decide not to help and they join the Irish and Scots in the second tier, scrabbling for very little TV money and watching their best young players drain away overseas then ending up playing for England or France under the residence rule?
Your ambition for Wales is to see them as the Samoa and Fiji with England as New Zealand ?

PhilBB wrote:More people watched Greyhound racing than watched the PrO'12 final on Sky IN UK.

The fact that Wales were playing England just before it might have had a bearing on that! Might have been a few watching it in the pubs around Twickenham!

Then you had the Champions League after that.

A peak of 192,000 watched the final on free to air TG4 in Ireland, the company who paid €900,000 for rights to the PrO'12. Sky, who paid £5.5m, got 18,000. There may be some more who watched it on Sky Ireland.

You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

Do you have a link to where it says that TG4 paid €900,000 for the rights to the PRO12?

How many watched the final of the PRO12 on SKY in ROI ?

PhilBB wrote:

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Hey PhilBB, do you have a link to where the 192,000 comes from for the TG4, I want to try and pull for the other games also.

My mistake. It was an average of 187,000

http://www.tg4.ie/en/corporate/press/press-releases/2016-2/16-05-16-2/

Don't worry PhilBB, we won't fall out over 5,000 viewers. Was just curious in case you had a link to somewhere which might set out the viewing figures for more games or a once off article. Would be nice to get more viewing figure details on all the leagues.

Irish Londoner wrote:

PhilBB wrote: You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

Because when Sky do what happens ? The PRO12 collapses and the English come like knights on white chargers to save the Welsh from bankruptcy ?
Meanwhile the Irish and Scots struggle and professional rugby in Italy goes under completely, which effectively also means that we have to remove Italy from the Six Nations and go back to five.
And what happens to Welsh rugby if the English decide not to help and they join the Irish and Scots in the second tier, scrabbling for very little TV money and watching their best young players drain away overseas then ending up playing for England or France under the residence rule?
Your ambition for Wales is to see them as the Samoa and Fiji with England as New Zealand ?

I believe that if Sky pull out, the PrO'12 will collapse. That will be the quickest route to a B&I league with the correct ownership model for professional rugby in this century. It will also significantly assist the requirement to move the 6N to the end of the season and to have a proper international calendar.

That's my belief.

The bit I can't quite figure out PhilBB, is why you talk about a B&I league but I rarely read you mention scots or irish. Is it not an E&W league that is you preferred goal?

PhilBB wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:

PhilBB wrote: You can only hope that Sky pull out of the PrO'12.

Because when Sky do what happens ? The PRO12 collapses and the English come like knights on white chargers to save the Welsh from bankruptcy ?
Meanwhile the Irish and Scots struggle and professional rugby in Italy goes under completely, which effectively also means that we have to remove Italy from the Six Nations and go back to five.
And what happens to Welsh rugby if the English decide not to help and they join the Irish and Scots in the second tier, scrabbling for very little TV money and watching their best young players drain away overseas then ending up playing for England or France under the residence rule?
Your ambition for Wales is to see them as the Samoa and Fiji with England as New Zealand ?

I believe that if Sky pull out, the PrO'12 will collapse. That will be the quickest route to a B&I league with the correct ownership model for professional rugby in this century. It will also significantly assist the requirement to move the 6N to the end of the season and to have a proper international calendar.

That's my belief.

But Sky won't pull out Phil. They need to stay on the good side of the Unions if they want to broadcasting rights of Lions Tour and other international rugby which is where the real money is.

The last thing the English Rugby Union want to do is get into bed with the Welsh Regions. They have enough on their hands trying to contain the PRL.

As an aside, RTE might get competitive again. The new Director General of RTE, Dee Forbes, is a big rugby fan (and is on the Commerical Board of Munster Rugby). RTE will have no rugby coverage, so should be able to come up with some cash.

Sky should have shown the final exclusively, and with a much better deal..

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:More people watched Greyhound racing than watched the PrO'12 final on Sky IN UK.

The fact that Wales were playing England just before it might have had a bearing on that! Might have been a few watching it in the pubs around Twickenham!

Wales played England just before the Pro12 final?

Dai Llewod wrote:

Sin é wrote:

PhilBB wrote:More people watched Greyhound racing than watched the PrO'12 final on Sky IN UK.

The fact that Wales were playing England just before it might have had a bearing on that! Might have been a few watching it in the pubs around Twickenham!

Wales played England just before the Pro12 final?

Pro 12 final was the Saturday, Wales-England on Sunday.

PhilBB wrote:I believe that if Sky pull out, the PrO'12 will collapse. That will be the quickest route to a B&I league with the correct ownership model for professional rugby in this century. It will also significantly assist the requirement to move the 6N to the end of the season and to have a proper international calendar.

That's my belief.

It's mine too, however where you see the chance to join the Avivia I see the collapse of top level professional rugby in the British Isles outside of England. Also I don't see what you mean by the "correct ownership model for professional rugby" - if you mean rugby clubs as rich men's toys playing devil take the hindmost in the style of the English Football Premiership, then that's not a model I want to see, nor do a lot of people, and don't forget even your mate/idol Mr Wray still relies on payments from the RFU to keep even the pretence of solvency at Saracens.
Also like you I would like to see a full on B & I League however I see no reason why any of the English clubs or the RFU would want it and the changes you want to the international calendar are the remit of the unions not the clubs, everyone likes the 6Ns where they are, including the TV companies as it fills an otherwise quiet part of the schedule.
The problem as I see it Phil is that you possibly rightly see that there is a lot wrong with Welsh rugby in the PRO12 but your remedy appears to involve everyone else changing to suit what you want rather than the Welsh clubs getting their act together, sorting things out with the WRU and taking their game forward rather than blaming everyone else for what are essentially your domestic issues - if your clubs are so certain that they cannot compete at league level that they allow an international to be scheduled on the same weekend as the league final, then to me that shows how little the Welsh clubs believe in their ability to get to the final phases of the league competition.
Sort yourselves out then start worrying about everyone else.

"correct ownership model for professional rugby in this century"

But not succeeding in Wales.



Had Wales the Irish ownership model, what would they have in the present, without waiting for AP to come to the rescue? - a few Regions in Europe and still giving new Zealand a run for its money?

Success is success.  Happiness is Happiness.  Fan satisfaction is fan satisfaction.
The Private buyers model that exists in Wales doesn't work and mostly, according to most Welsh fans, doesn't provide under any of the three ideals above of success, happiness or fan satisfaction.

The Irish model in Ireland does - and much better than the comparable Private ownership football equivalent, that Phil would have us adopt.

The facts don't change.  One system works within the Pro12 structure - so far the other doesn't.

The Welsh should seriously contemplate the Irish system - the correct ownership model for Pro12.

thebandwagonsociety wrote:The bit I can't quite figure out PhilBB, is why you talk about a B&I league but I rarely read you mention scots or irish.  Is it not an E&W league that is you preferred goal?

Yes, it is.

Sin é wrote:
But Sky won't pull out Phil. They need to stay on the good side of the Unions if they want to broadcasting rights of Lions Tour and other international rugby which is where the real money is.

The last thing the English Rugby Union want to do is get into bed with the Welsh Regions. They have enough on their hands trying to contain the PRL.

As an aside, RTE might get competitive again. The new Director General of RTE, Dee Forbes, is a big rugby fan (and is on the Commerical Board of Munster Rugby). RTE will have no rugby coverage, so should be able to come up with some cash.

Wow, that's some nonsense. Sky must broadcast the PrO'12 in order to keep the summer tours. And the RFU struggle to contain the company they've just offered over £2m to.

Good news that Ireland may finally come up with some cash, however.

Irish Londoner wrote:
It's mine too, however where you see the chance to join the Avivia I see the collapse of top level professional rugby in the British Isles outside of England. Also I don't see what you mean by the "correct ownership model for professional rugby" - if you mean rugby clubs as rich men's toys playing devil take the hindmost in the style of the English Football Premiership, then that's not a model I want to see, nor do a lot of people, and don't forget even your mate/idol Mr Wray still relies on payments from the RFU to keep even the pretence of solvency at Saracens.
Also like you I would like to see a full on B & I League however I see no reason why any of the English clubs or the RFU would want it and the changes you want to the international calendar are the remit of the unions not the clubs, everyone likes the 6Ns where they are, including the TV companies as it fills an otherwise quiet part of the schedule.
The problem as I see it Phil is that you possibly rightly see that there is a lot wrong with Welsh rugby in the PRO12 but your remedy appears to involve everyone else changing to suit what you want rather than the Welsh clubs getting their act together, sorting things out with the WRU and taking their game forward rather than blaming everyone else for what are essentially your domestic issues - if your clubs are so certain that they cannot compete at league level that they allow an international to be scheduled on the same weekend as the league final, then to me that shows how little the Welsh clubs believe in their ability to get to the final phases of the league competition.
Sort yourselves out then start worrying about everyone else.

To address your points:

BT Sports investments into Scotland and Wales should provide a clue as to whether rugby will collapse outside of England.

Whether you want to see the 'soccer model' or not, it's happening. It's where the money is.

Many want the 6N moved, including those within the 'clubs'.

Pro rugby in Wales won't grow in the PrO'12. That has nothing to do with the WRU or PRW. It has everything to do with the consumer. I struggle to comprehend why so many non-Welsh folk don't grasp that fact. We want to drive two hours to a game, not take a day of work, fly for two hours, get a hotel and them come home.

SecretFly wrote:
The Private buyers model that exists in Wales doesn't work and mostly, according to most Welsh fans, doesn't provide under any of the three ideals above of success, happiness or fan satisfaction.

The Irish model in Ireland does - and much better than the comparable Private ownership football equivalent, that Phil would have us adopt.

The facts don't change.  One system works within the Pro12 structure - so far the other doesn't.

The Welsh should seriously contemplate the Irish system - the correct ownership model for Pro12.

Fair play, you don't half write some tripe.

The model in Wales works perfectly well, as shown up to 2010. What then happened was that the WRU tried to kill the model.

Put it this way, I'm more than happy for Union owned teams to play in Union owned leagues against other Union owned teams.

You can have the 6 of you in the PrO'6 and leave the rest of us to progress.

Fantasy land.

VinceWLB wrote:Sky should have shown the final exclusively, and with a much better deal..

The Welsh rugby civil war destroyed any chance of the PRO12 getting a decent tv deal (according to Gerald Davies). Too much uncertainty. We're extremely lucky to have gotten Sky involved.

The continued petulence from the Welsh Regions fans though will mean that its highly unlikely that the PRO12 will ever get a decent media deal.

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The Private buyers model that exists in Wales doesn't work and mostly, according to most Welsh fans, doesn't provide under any of the three ideals above of success, happiness or fan satisfaction.

The Irish model in Ireland does - and much better than the comparable Private ownership football equivalent, that Phil would have us adopt.

The facts don't change.  One system works within the Pro12 structure - so far the other doesn't.

The Welsh should seriously contemplate the Irish system - the correct ownership model for Pro12.

Fair play, you don't half write some tripe.

The model in Wales works perfectly well, as shown up to 2010. What then happened was that the WRU tried to kill the model.

Put it this way, I'm more than happy for Union owned teams to play in Union owned leagues against other Union owned teams.

You can have the 6 of you in the PrO'6 and leave the rest of us to progress.

It doesn't work because instead of private owners investing you have private owners wanting the WRU to invest, that's where the stagnation in Welsh rugby comes from. PRW sitting on their hands watching things go backwards waiting for the WRU to blink and put the money forward to correct it.

Sin é wrote:

VinceWLB wrote:Sky should have shown the final exclusively, and with a much better deal..

The Welsh rugby civil war destroyed any chance of the PRO12 getting a decent tv deal (according to Gerald Davies). Too much uncertainty. We're extremely lucky to have gotten Sky involved.

The continued petulence from the Welsh Regions fans though will mean that its highly unlikely that the PRO12 will ever get a decent media deal.

The Pro12 also want to keep it free to air to grow the brand, it means sacrificing big bucks now for bigger bucks in the long term

PhilBB wrote:

Irish Londoner wrote:
It's mine too, however where you see the chance to join the Avivia I see the collapse of top level professional rugby in the British Isles outside of England. Also I don't see what you mean by the "correct ownership model for professional rugby" - if you mean rugby clubs as rich men's toys playing devil take the hindmost in the style of the English Football Premiership, then that's not a model I want to see, nor do a lot of people, and don't forget even your mate/idol Mr Wray still relies on payments from the RFU to keep even the pretence of solvency at Saracens.
Also like you I would like to see a full on B & I League however I see no reason why any of the English clubs or the RFU would want it and the changes you want to the international calendar are the remit of the unions not the clubs, everyone likes the 6Ns where they are, including the TV companies as it fills an otherwise quiet part of the schedule.
The problem as I see it Phil is that you possibly rightly see that there is a lot wrong with Welsh rugby in the PRO12 but your remedy appears to involve everyone else changing to suit what you want rather than the Welsh clubs getting their act together, sorting things out with the WRU and taking their game forward rather than blaming everyone else for what are essentially your domestic issues - if your clubs are so certain that they cannot compete at league level that they allow an international to be scheduled on the same weekend as the league final, then to me that shows how little the Welsh clubs believe in their ability to get to the final phases of the league competition.
Sort yourselves out then start worrying about everyone else.

To address your points:

BT Sports investments into Scotland and Wales should provide a clue as to whether rugby will collapse outside of England.

Whether you want to see the 'soccer model' or not, it's happening. It's where the money is.

Many want the 6N moved, including those within the 'clubs'.

Pro rugby in Wales won't grow in the PrO'12. That has nothing to do with the WRU or PRW. It has everything to do with the consumer. I struggle to comprehend why so many non-Welsh folk don't grasp that fact. We want to drive two hours to a game, not take a day of work, fly for two hours, get a hotel and them come home.

BTs investment in rugby in Scotland and Wales was to get the Scots to agree to the Champs Cup (and protect their investment in English Rugby).

Lets face it, Welsh fans don't want to get off the couch. They just want to watch it on tv.

Sin é wrote:

The Welsh rugby civil war destroyed any chance of the PRO12 getting a decent tv deal (according to Gerald Davies). Too much uncertainty. We're extremely lucky to have gotten Sky involved.

The continued petulence from the Welsh Regions fans though will mean that its highly unlikely that the PRO12 will ever get a decent media deal.

Except, of course, the only territory with a decent TV deal is Wales. So Blazered Gerald was offering a weak excuse.

Come back to us when the Irish domestic deal is worth more than £4m a year. At that point, you can whine.

Sin é wrote:

BTs investment in rugby in Scotland and Wales was to get the Scots to agree to the Champs Cup (and protect their investment in English Rugby).

Lets face it, Welsh fans don't want to get off the couch. They just want to watch it on tv.

If they don't get off the couch and just watch it on TV then that's power to the elbow of BT Sport as it makes the Welsh teams more attractive to them.

And, let's face it, PRW get more supporters per population than the Irish teams do so, just like your Gerald Davies whine, that one doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

marty2086 wrote:

The Pro12 also want to keep it free to air to grow the brand, it means sacrificing big bucks now for bigger bucks in the long term

There won't be a long term. It's why the Executive are proposing significant changes.

marty2086 wrote:

It doesn't work because instead of private owners investing you have private owners wanting the WRU to invest, that's where the stagnation in Welsh rugby comes from. PRW sitting on their hands watching things go backwards waiting for the WRU to blink and put the money forward to correct it.

This narrative is incredibly wrong.

Nobody wants the WRU to invest. Everybody requires the WRU to either a) pay the market rate for the services provided or b) get less services.

The investment from PRW in the last 20 years has been incredible. It's kept the game alive in Wales.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

The Pro12 also want to keep it free to air to grow the brand, it means sacrificing big bucks now for bigger bucks in the long term

There won't be a long term. It's why the Executive are proposing significant changes.

No there will be but how that long term looks is what they are addressing

marty2086 wrote:
No there will be but how that long term looks is what they are addressing

It's getting a life support machine as the present set up has failed. That's obvious.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

It doesn't work because instead of private owners investing you have private owners wanting the WRU to invest, that's where the stagnation in Welsh rugby comes from. PRW sitting on their hands watching things go backwards waiting for the WRU to blink and put the money forward to correct it.

This narrative is incredibly wrong.

Nobody wants the WRU to invest. Everybody requires the WRU to either a) pay the market rate for the services provided or b) get less services.

The investment from PRW in the last 20 years has been incredible. It's kept the game alive in Wales.

Its not the market rate, its assistance. The market rate would be paying for players who get selected for Wales rather than a core group

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:
No there will be but how that long term looks is what they are addressing

It's getting a life support machine as the present set up has failed. That's obvious.

Says nobody but you, the league has continually grown and yet you keep saying the opposite

Another example of Phil not being able to admit hes wrong

marty2086 wrote:
Its not the market rate, its assistance. The market rate would be paying for players who get selected for Wales rather than a core group

Wrong. Wholly wrong.

It is the market rate for services delivered under - here's a clue - the contract entitled Rugby Services Agreement. It's the same thing the English are now renewing their contract on.

It's about far more than just paying for players who get selected for Wales.

You couldn't be more wrong.

marty2086 wrote:

Says nobody but you, the league has continually grown and yet you keep saying the opposite

Another example of Phil not being able to admit hes wrong

If it was growing and was fine, it wouldn't need to be changed. There wouldn't be a unanimous agreement amongst the Chief Execs of the Participants that change must happen.

Another example of Martyn being unable to add 2+2 to get 4.

PhilBB wrote:

Sin é wrote:

The Welsh rugby civil war destroyed any chance of the PRO12 getting a decent tv deal (according to Gerald Davies). Too much uncertainty. We're extremely lucky to have gotten Sky involved.

The continued petulence from the Welsh Regions fans though will mean that its highly unlikely that the PRO12 will ever get a decent media deal.

Except, of course, the only territory with a decent TV deal is Wales. So Blazered Gerald was offering a weak excuse.

Come back to us when the Irish domestic deal is worth more than £4m a year. At that point, you can whine.

The Welsh tv deal would have feiced up any potential exclusive deal with both Sky & BT Sport for the UK market. Why pay for games when they are all on Free to Air.

I'd say Blazered Gerald was offering an explanation rather than an excuse The truth can hurt sometimes.

By the way, considering your concern for Irish rugby propping up Munster, I presume you have even more concern for the Irish taxpayer propping up Welsh Rugby (with tax exemptions on income earned through broadcasting and sponsorship deals)!

Sin é wrote:
The Welsh tv deal would have feiced up any potential exclusive deal with both Sky & BT Sport for the UK market. Why pay for games when they are all on Free to Air.

I'd say Blazered Gerald was offering an explanation rather than an excuse  The truth can hurt sometimes.

By the way, considering your concern for Irish rugby propping up Munster, I presume you have even more concern for the Irish taxpayer propping up Welsh Rugby (with tax exemptions on income earned through broadcasting and sponsorship deals)!

You're claiming the BBC Wales deal, that was already in place, screwed up an exclusive deal with Sky? Blazered Gerald had £4m in one hand and €900,000 in the other. That's the only truth that talks.

I'm clearly no expert on Irish taxation but could you tell me what taxation would be paid in the UK on income to a not for profit company? Thanks.

PhilBB wrote:

SecretFly wrote:
The Private buyers model that exists in Wales doesn't work and mostly, according to most Welsh fans, doesn't provide under any of the three ideals above of success, happiness or fan satisfaction.

The Irish model in Ireland does - and much better than the comparable Private ownership football equivalent, that Phil would have us adopt.

The facts don't change.  One system works within the Pro12 structure - so far the other doesn't.

The Welsh should seriously contemplate the Irish system - the correct ownership model for Pro12.

Fair play, you don't half write some tripe.

The model in Wales works perfectly well, as shown up to 2010. What then happened was that the WRU tried to kill the model.

Put it this way, I'm more than happy for Union owned teams to play in Union owned leagues against other Union owned teams.

You can have the 6 of you in the PrO'6 and leave the rest of us to progress.

You own the bucket of tripe, Phil.  I just dip my toes into it now and again when forced to use your peculiar logic.

Put it this way - you don't decide who owns what.  A League already exists whereby Union owned teams play 'Privately' owned teams.  Now, in your bucket of tripe, that means the League belongs to the Private 'Regions' - and the Union owned sides are merely guests....uninvited ones.


Let's stick to the truth - and put aside your attempts at always creating a 'Them' and 'Us'.  You keep using the same themes and structures.  

So, in your theory its 'US' (Wales, Scotland, England and Ireland) against THEM (Big bad France).  But the truth is you don't want Ireland or Scotland and certainly not Italy to be anywhere near your real version of Them and US.  

US = England and Wales
THEM = Ireland, Scotland, France and Italy.

Cute.

The truth is Wales is Wales - it isn't English rugby, it's Welsh rugby - and if the English Private owners model is working in England, that's not Wales.  So stop trying to link yourself up to something successful by simply trying on this 'US' trick.  The trick doesn't work.  Nobody is falling for it.  The problems of viability exist in Wales.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

It doesn't work because instead of private owners investing you have private owners wanting the WRU to invest, that's where the stagnation in Welsh rugby comes from. PRW sitting on their hands watching things go backwards waiting for the WRU to blink and put the money forward to correct it.

This narrative is incredibly wrong.

Nobody wants the WRU to invest. Everybody requires the WRU to either a) pay the market rate for the services provided or b) get less services.

The investment from PRW in the last 20 years has been incredible. It's kept the game alive in Wales.

I'd say its the amateur game that keeps the game alive in Wales. Most players could move to England or France and still represent Wales. It work out a whole lot cheaper for the WRU.

Take the Bristol outhalf Sheedy. He is Welsh/Irish, but went to school in England and is playing at an English club. What input will the Welsh Regions have into his development?

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Says nobody but you, the league has continually grown and yet you keep saying the opposite

Another example of Phil not being able to admit hes wrong

If it was growing and was fine, it wouldn't need to be changed. There wouldn't be a unanimous agreement amongst the Chief Execs of the Participants that change must happen.

Another example of Martyn being unable to add 2+2 to get 4.

Ffs change happens all the time, it doesn't mean it isn't growing it means it can be better.

The AP made changes and are looking into making more you saying its failing?

As Martin Anayi said they want to make more of one of the leagues biggest assets, to do that they'll need to change

Maybe you need to stop applying your blinkered childlike logic to it all