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South Africa v Ireland, 18 June

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Post by George Carlin Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 0:53

South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Sa10        South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Irelan10
SOUTH AFRICA IRELAND
18 June 2016
17:00 SAST (UTC+02)
Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg 

Live on Sky Sports

Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Touch judges: [tbc]
Television match official: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

23 Played 23
16 Won 6
1 Drawn 1
6 Lost 16
442 Points 303

B. Recent Form 

11 June 2016 - DHL Newlands, Cape Town: 20-26 to Ireland

8 November 2014 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 29 – 15 to Ireland 

10 November 2012 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 12 – 16 to South Africa 

6 November 2010 - Aviva Stadium, Dublin: 21 – 23 to South Africa 

28 November 2009 - Croke Park, Dublin: 15 – 10 to Ireland 

11 November 2006 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 32 – 15 to Ireland 

13 November 2004 - Lansdowne Road, Dublin: 17 – 12 to Ireland 

19 June 2004 - Newlands, Cape Town: 26 – 17 to South Africa 

C. Teams

SOUTH AFRICA 
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Spring10

[*]

IRELAND
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Leprec10
J Payne; A Trimble, R Henshaw, S Olding, C Gilroy; P Jackson, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, Q Roux; I Henderson, R Ruddock, J Heaslip.

Replacements: R Strauss, D Kilcoyne, F Bealham, D Ryan, S Reidy, K Marmion, I Madigan, T O'Halloran.


Last edited by George Carlin on Fri 17 Jun 2016 - 3:19; edited 1 time in total
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Post by rodders Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:00

Aw crap do we have to play them again?
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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:03

Damn it....do they not know when to lie down? Best of three it is then Smile

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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:46

I heard a rumour "secret weapon" Ruan Pienaar was seen buying some sun tan lotion in belfast international this morning.... i.e. won't be going anywhere near Jo'burg!

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Post by Notch Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:50

fa0019 wrote:I heard a rumour "secret weapon" Ruan Pienaar was seen buying some sun tan lotion in belfast international this morning.... i.e. won't be going anywhere near Jo'burg!

Laugh

A shocking yet bold strategy recalling the Ireland-based Boks for this one. I can see the movie now...

"To beat the Irish, they must become the Irish! This summer Ruan O'Pienaar and Zane McKirchener star in... GOING NATIVE"
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Post by rodders Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:56

fa0019 wrote:I heard a rumour "secret weapon" Ruan Pienaar was seen buying some sun tan lotion in belfast international this morning.... i.e. won't be going anywhere near Jo'burg!

Was he arriving or departing?
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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:57

Notch wrote:
fa0019 wrote:I heard a rumour "secret weapon" Ruan Pienaar was seen buying some sun tan lotion in belfast international this morning.... i.e. won't be going anywhere near Jo'burg!

Laugh

A shocking yet bold strategy recalling the Ireland-based Boks for this one. I can see the movie now...

"To beat the Irish, they must become the Irish! This summer Ruan O'Pienaar and Zane McKirchener star in... GOING NATIVE"

Die bokke faithful have another reason to hate Ruan. He obviously passed on all those trade secrets to Paddy & co.

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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 2:59

rodders wrote:
fa0019 wrote:I heard a rumour "secret weapon" Ruan Pienaar was seen buying some sun tan lotion in belfast international this morning.... i.e. won't be going anywhere near Jo'burg!

Was he arriving or departing?

why, is it above 10C in Belfast today??? I assume that's when there is a local run on the totty lotion aisle in boots?

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Post by Notch Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 3:12

I would get indignant but thats a little too close to the truth Smile
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Post by SecretFly Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 3:39

What's this?


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Post by Guest Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 12:03

A question king Cool

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Post by rapidsnowman Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 15:09

If Ruan can afford to buy sun tan lotion at the airport, Ulster are paying him way too much!

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Post by Gooseberry Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 18:20

Have to say its a bit unfair of Ireland to start the game with 15 on the pitch, give SA a chance guys

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Post by rapidsnowman Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 18:50

How much of an issue is the playing at altitude thing?

Will it really be that much more of an effect on the Irish players?

Surely a good proportion of the Boks don't regularly play at altitude. The Sharks and Stormers are based in Durban and Cape Town (both at sea level?).

How much do you have had to play at altitude to be accustomed to it?

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Post by rodders Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 19:10

rapidsnowman wrote:How much of an issue is the playing at altitude thing?

Will it really be that much more of an effect on the Irish players?

Surely a good proportion of the Boks don't regularly play at altitude. The Sharks and Stormers are based in Durban and Cape Town (both at sea level?).

How much do you have had to play at altitude to be accustomed to it?

Significant.
Yes.
True.
Twice.
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Post by fa0019 Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 19:40

People in SA and players who regularly travel between will be used to the altitude. It is an advantage to the boks but also Ellis Park is a better suited pitch for width rugby which Jantjies the playmaker likes. Cape Town seems to be quite a narrow pitch.

Players at the Stormers/Sharks will play regularly at altitude. They know how to play there, how their body reacts and how to pace themselves. Its also about how they judge their kicks (place kicking, drop outs, garry owens and ball to hand)... remember the advantage Ireland had over kicks at Croke Park?

I think the mental advantage is with Ireland though... if you lose to a team with 14 men you can't simply think, ah but we just on an off day. You should wipe the floor with them if supposedly equally matched. Its going to take a lot for the boks to come back.

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Post by rapidsnowman Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 19:52

Thanks.

I definitely agree mental advantage is with Ireland.

Also the burden is on the Coetzee; does he give the starting 15 a chance to redeem themselves or does he make a few changes?


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Post by Guest Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 22:00

rapidsnowman wrote:Thanks.

I definitely agree mental advantage is with Ireland.

Also the burden is on the Coetzee; does he give the starting 15 a chance to redeem themselves or does he make a few changes?


Coetzee has said that he wants to play the same team (as much as are available), and to give them that chance to redeem themselves.

He has my full support angel

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Post by SecretFly Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 22:23

rapidsnowman wrote:Thanks.

I definitely agree mental advantage is with Ireland.

Also the burden is on the Coetzee; does he give the starting 15 a chance to redeem themselves or does he make a few changes?


But you need oxygen for the mental thing to work.

This WILL be a serious test of Irish players' fitness levels and/or any extra stuff they might have been doing to prepare themselves even a little for being one mile high playing intense rugby against South Africa.

Oxygen will be key.... lots of it needed, not much of it about.

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Post by rodders Tue 14 Jun 2016 - 23:03

You see this is why I think we may rotate as players will need at least a couple of intense sessions to acclimatize.

Given the work rate Saturdays team got through, I can imagine a few of those may have a reduced workload this week, therefore can see a few changes and fresh legs coming in.

I'd imagine the boks will change things too.
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Post by George Carlin Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 4:14

There can't be many other teams who have beaten the Boks 5 times in the last 7 attempts.
South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Vader10
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Post by eirebilly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 4:39

I feel that SA will come out of the blocks very fast on Saturday and normally I would be very concerned but after Irelands victory on Saturday, I saw a much harder mental strength to them that I have not seen for a long time. Best captained very well and inspired the team to fight on.
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Post by SecretFly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:04

My plan would be to have an initial 20 minute period where we hit them with the game they possibly/probably intend to hit us with.

We have to surprise their expectations of us again.  I hope we're working on a surprise.  

Surprising pace, risk and invention in the first half might just work in once again disrupting their intended rhythms.  If we sit back ready to absorb pressure for a while then they'll be determined to find their rhythm of attack.  I just don't think it's the right game to play passively or for holding-in-there.

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Post by eirebilly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:12

Not sure its a good idea to come out hard and fast there fly. In the altitude its always wise to conserve your energy.
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Post by rapidsnowman Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:17

For the first 20 minutes in the first test they flew out of the blocks and were launching themselves like exocet missiles into (and over in case of Etzebeth) rucks. But it was all bluster with very little end result. In that 20 minutes Ireland calmly exerted control only wavering for a while thereafter, when CJ got sent off.

The worry would be if they can channel their passion in a more cohesive way, then they could cause Ireland some real problems.

To be honest I'm quietly confident of an Ireland win..... So we'll likely get tanked Sad

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Post by rapidsnowman Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:19

And when I say 'quietly confident' I mean I will only be posting it on this public forum for all to see, not shouting it out the window Very Happy

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Post by eirebilly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:26

As I said on the other thread, I was very much against Farrell joining the Irish set up. After last weekend, I am eating my words on that one. It was a hell of a defensive display and the boys looked very well drilled.
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Post by SecretFly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:35

Billy, at altitude energy leaks regardless of conserving it. Better to use it whilst its freshest. Even mild work, and certainly defending work, will drain the energy from the legs through 80.

If we can do this - at altitude, after a 14 man game, that really will be special. Let's try it. But I think a loose game is required at pace.

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Post by eirebilly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:40

At altitude, I always prefer the old diesel approach. Contain for the initial period and get accustomed to the conditions before trying to let loose. Going hard early may have Ireland knackered after 50mins.
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Post by SecretFly Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 5:45

Then the f**king sub troops come on and kill'em off!!!!

It's a done deal! We're going to smash'em!


I feel like a soccer thug now....better ease off Whistle

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Post by Golden Wed 15 Jun 2016 - 20:39

With the effects of the altitude it might be worth looking at Furlong/Bealham to start in this one or at least using substitutions a lot earlier. I wouldn't be playing Ross past 40-50 mins. Might need to take off Toner, McGrath and Best early enough as well.

We will need to be very wary of kicking from hand. I can see a few going out on the full.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 4:12

Well, hopefully this will put to rest the claims that Schmidt commands his players not to offload...

http://www.the42.ie/jared-payne-ireland-south-africa-2824291-Jun2016/

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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 4:28

We need to improve massively not only physically, we’re going to have to go to a darker place again mentally. We’re going to have to be more on the ball."

That's the part I really like.  Because despite the feel-good emotions after the first game, even with 14 men I think Ireland could have actually pulled further ahead if those moments of attack were a little more controlled.  You can't criticise how we played but you can see what Payne sees.

They do need to improve even as the task gets harder.  South Africa, they were like us on a bad day, none of their plays sticking - but they'd have scored a few with just a little more 'luck'.

I like the attitude that improvement is needed to get this series.

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 11:58

So what changes are likely to happen with all this energy conservation and saving some quality resources for the final test?

Same starting front row?  
Toner keeps going and gets Roux or Dillane.
Hendo to 6 and Ruddock at 7
Duracell Jamie at 8
Murray and Jackson as you were
Olding for Marshall
All-Ulster back three with Gilroy ousting/resting Earls to partner Payne and Trimble.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 20:20

Was it you Pot that said Henshaw needs to rein in the over-enthusiasm somewhat?

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Post by Pot Hale Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 21:25

SecretFly wrote:Was it you Pot that said Henshaw needs to rein in the over-enthusiasm somewhat?

It might have been. His charging tackle for which he got binned was symptomatic of that I think.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 21:43

Yeah, I just remembered seeing a post about him and agreeing with it.  Sometimes he has to learn that intensity isn't simply about losing your brain and going Braveheart onto the breach (like the auld Munster lads used to do in their prime - only they never lost the brain, they just pretended to)

Anyway, I just thought about that because we'll need intensity from whoever plays but it has to be smart too - eyes wide open, and don't use too much adrenalin that might exhaust you all the quicker.

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Post by carpet baboon Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:23

Well that is a good looking team for sat. Would rather had dillane instead of quin but I like the look of the back line

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Post by rodders Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:38

Has the team been announced?
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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:39

Yeah, Madigan in at 12.

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Post by marty2086 Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:40

South Africa v Ireland, 18 June Irfu10

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Post by fa0019 Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:40

Le Roux, Pietersen, Mapoe, De Allende, Mvovo, Jantjies, De Klerk, Vermeulen,  Kolisi, Louw, Du Toit, Etzebeth, Malherbe, Strauss, Mtawarira

Mbonambi, Nyakane, Redelinghuys, Mostert, Whiteley, Paige, Steyn, Combrinck

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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:40

Earls 15??!!

The altitude is getting to Joe!

Schmidt OUT!

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Post by marty2086 Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:41

Marshall, Ross, Earls, Dillane and Murphy all drop out of the squad?

Can only think they are rested with a view to being fresh for next week

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Post by rodders Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:41

Post it you fookers!
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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:42

Good team. Attack orientated?

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Post by SecretFly Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:45

marty2086 wrote:Marshall, Ross, Earls, Dillane and Murphy all drop out of the squad?

Can only think they are rested with a view to being fresh for next week

Probably. The other possibility might that some of these guys are taking longer to acclimatise? It affects different people different ways. Ross said he hated altitude (tent) training a season or two back at Leinster.

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Post by carpet baboon Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:49

Yup
Magrath best furlong
Dev roux
Ruddock Henderson headlamp
Murray Jackson
Olding because
Gilroy Trimble payne

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Post by rodders Thu 16 Jun 2016 - 23:56

See it now - good team - I suspect some of the guys were already getting acclimatized.

Also think we'll kick a lot, hence Olding in at 12 - at altitude there will be a serious height on the ball.
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Post by marty2086 Fri 17 Jun 2016 - 0:11

May be right there rodders. would have thought Marshall was a shoe in for 12 given hes been a second kicking option all season at Ulster

May also explain further McCloskey staying home and Olding going if Joe had this approach in mind

Looking forward to seeing what Reidy can do at this level

Bench could be crucial for this one

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