Wales 45 man training squad

First topic message reminder :

Squad:

Forwards: H Bennett (Ospreys), L Burns (Dragons), R Hibbard (Ospreys), M Rees (Scarlets), S Andrews (Cardiff), R Bevington (Ospreys), P James (Ospreys), G Jenkins (Cardiff), A Jones (Ospreys), C Mitchell (Exeter), J Yapp (Cardiff), L Charteris (Dragons), B Davies (Blues), AW Jones (Ospreys), L Reed (Scarlets), G Delve (Melbourne Rebels), T Faletau (Dragons), R Jones (Ospreys), D Lydiate (Dragons), R McCusker (Scarlets), A Powell (Sale Sharks), J Thomas (Ospreys), J Tipuric (Ospreys), J Turnbull (Scarlets), S Warburton (Blues), M Williams (Blues).

Backs: T Knoyle (Scarlets), D Peel (Sale), M Phillips (Ospreys), R Rees (Blues), S Jones (Scarlets), R Priestland (Scarlets), J Tovey (Dragons), J Hook (Perpigan), A Bishop (Ospreys), J Davies (Scarlets), G Henson (unattached), J Roberts (Cardiff), G North (Scarlets), A Brew (Dragons), M Stoddart (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys), L Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), L Halfpenny (Cardiff).

Londonwelsh. Charteris was man of the match v Italy 2 seasons ago!

On the old board always tended not to post immediately after games or squad announcements due to a tad of overreaction so why change now.

Here is my (calmed down) view on the Weekends events:-

The game, well as usual we struggle to close games out and we should really have closed it out or played it tight in the last few minutes.

Front Row - Bevington - needs to be stuck with as he has showed good form for the O's and even though Yapp didn't play he's not up to it. Bennett - How many more chances will this guy get to prove he is useless. James - Did well swapping but with hopefully Jones and Mitchell both coming back to fitness James will be left to battle it out with Jenkins for the No1 shirt.

2nd Row - Charterris - got through his usual workload and didn't miss the tackles some have claimed. Jones - Didn't do a lot at all and whilst I would take him to the WC I would question his place in the first team with Davies and AWJ the likely 2nd row combo and hopefully Faletau at No8.

Back Row - The one big plus of the afternoon, Lydiate got through his usual workload in defence and added to it with a lot more carries. Faletau proved he is good enough and game into the game more and more. Warburton proved again that Willimas will only be a bit part player now. I would start all these three in every warm up game and give them game time as a combo.

Half Backs - Thought Phillips had one of his better games but the service sped up when Knoyle came on. Jones is Jones never flashy but always dependant, Hook needs game time at 10 to displace him.

Centres - Both were poor Henson serioulsy lacked game time whilst Davies' defence was poor.

Back Three - Brew and North showed their strength and done well with limited ball, Brew whilst not everyones cup of tea is just one of them annoying players that get in peoples faces and puts himself about. Stoddard - Again proved he is worth taking as utility player and knows way to line, defence is still weak to start at XV.

WC Training Squad Great to see Tovey and Delve in there though think Tovey is behind Priestland, pity I Thomas didn't get a chance certainly ahead of Yapp and biggest shock for me is how Bennett IS in there.

bedfordwelsh, I honestly don't know what Iestyn Thomas has done wrong to be left out of the World Cup training squad - nor what Huw Bennett's done right to have been included! How many caps does he have now?

The only thing I can see going against Iestyn is his age, and that Gats want to "build for the future". He has though been the form Welsh prop this season, so seems a bit mad that he isn't even in the training squad!

as much as Iestyn is a great prop he's not that mobile and that is the only thing i can see going against him and likewise the only thing I can see going for Huw Bennett.

I think JD2s defence was poor because Henson was constantly out of position so JD2 was going for the interception to break the attack. in a more settled defensive line he is fine. I thought Scott Williams definitely looks like one for the future and might be a superb pairing with JD2.

Dreamer, I can understand the 'building for the future' thing, but Shane and Martyn Williams and Stephen Jones are hardly tomorrow's men either. It would make much more sense for Gatland to take the best Welshmen available and reassess things after the World Cup. If he's still in a job

I remember Thomas weh at Ebbw before Llanelli poached him at the time he was head and soldiers above all around but IMO he dipped quite a bit for a few seasons and I wasn't convinced he had what it took, despite all the claims from down West.

However this season he has been the form prop in Wales and with Yapp seen as our back up to Jenkins and James then Thomas is far superior to Yapp and that alone should have menat he at least got looked at.

Lucky - I agree with you!

My problem with Charteris is that he is 6' 9" but yet again he was not a presence in the lineout, this is his main job so he must be measured by his performance in this area.

It's the same for Bevington who showed up well about the park but together with Paul James and Andrews got a pasting in the scrums.

Anyone got a theory as to what we the problem with Wales mid-field defence, because it was rubbish! JD2 hasn't played for a while but was the standout 12 in the Magners last season but on Saturday he looked all at sea. Was it due to; Playing 12 instead of 13 or the Henson effect?

6'9" ? Charteris could be 9'6" and Bennett still couldn't hit him!

The front 5 were collectively poor - it's a good job we have Rees, Jenkins, Jones and Davies.

I don't know what the problem was in the centre, but neither have played much lately, they haven't played together and there didn't look to be much communication going on.

Davies was playing 13 instead of 12 which might have been an issue, but Henson wasn't always postitioned correctly either so it might have been due to him having to do a bit of covering there as well, also like offload says neither have played much lately or together before.

I don't think you can fault Charteris too much, is it the lifters or the hooker not timing it right? You would think at his height it would be impossible to miss him!

Davies playing at 13 wasnt so much of an issue. But Henson been totally off speed and totally out of position left Davies frequently marking two areas of contact....... that was the main issue. No wonder he made some many loose tackles

Scott Williams when he came on showed Mr G who should be dropped and who should be in the squad

I'm quite hesitant to praise Scott Williams too much for the difference in how well our centre pairing played on the weekend. The BaaBaa's were most definitely getting tired. Still he added spark and played at pace which is good to see. Would love for him to get another opportunity.

Seems to me that both Peel and Golf buggy will drop out, and that leaves 13 others to go.
Bank on Gatland going with his tried and "trusted" old guard, hence Williams, Tovey, Burns, Bevington and most of the newer faces will go.
Henson's guaranteed.

Here is the 45 man training squad, you need to drop 15 guys to get your squad for NZ:

FORWARDS:

Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets); Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), John Yapp (Cardiff Blues); Luke Charteris (Dragons), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Lou Reed (Scarlets); Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Sam Warburton (Blues), Martyn Williams (Blues).

BACKS:

Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks), Mike Phillips (Ospreys), Richie Rees (Blues); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jason Tovey (Dragons), James Hook (Perpigan); Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Unattached), Jamie Roberts (Blues); George North (Scarlets), Aled Brew (Dragons), Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).


Who would you drop?

Note, I'm going to merge this with the existing Wales RWC squad discussion

tlazarus9 wrote:Here is the 45 man training squad, you need to drop 15 guys to get your squad for NZ:

FORWARDS:

Huw Bennett (Ospreys), Lloyd Burns (Dragons), Richard Hibbard (Ospreys), Matthew Rees (Scarlets); Scott Andrews (Cardiff Blues), Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Paul James (Ospreys), Gethin Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), Adam Jones (Ospreys), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), John Yapp (Cardiff Blues); Luke Charteris (Dragons), Bradley Davies (Blues), Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys), Lou Reed (Scarlets); Gareth Delve (Melbourne Rebels), Toby Faletau (Dragons), Ryan Jones (Ospreys), Dan Lydiate (Dragons), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andy Powell (Sale Sharks), Jonathan Thomas (Ospreys), Justin Tipuric (Ospreys), Josh Turnbull (Scarlets), Sam Warburton (Blues), Martyn Williams (Blues).

BACKS:

Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dwayne Peel (Sale Sharks), Mike Phillips (Ospreys), Richie Rees (Blues); Stephen Jones (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Jason Tovey (Dragons), James Hook (Perpigan); Andrew Bishop (Ospreys), Jonathan Davies (Scarlets), Gavin Henson (Unattached), Jamie Roberts (Blues); George North (Scarlets), Aled Brew (Dragons), Morgan Stoddart (Scarlets), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Shane Williams (Ospreys); Lee Byrne (Clermont Auvergne), Leigh Halfpenny (Blues).


Who would you drop?

Id drop:

Bennett
Andrews
Jenkins (Not played enough for a prop)
Yapp
Reed
McCusker
Powell
Thomas
Turnbull
Rees
Tovey
Bishop
Scott Williams
Byrne
Charteris (Using R Jones as the second row cover, not dynamic enough for back row anymore)

tlaz,

No way should Jenkins be left behind, our only other serious option then would be James, Bevington is far to inexperienced to take as main back up.

The rest I pretty much agree with but he will take JT and Bennett. I really hope he takes Charterris but don't think he will

bedfordwelsh wrote:tlaz,

No way should Jenkins be left behind, our only other serious option then would be James, Bevington is far to inexperienced to take as main back up.

The rest I pretty much agree with but he will take JT and Bennett. I really hope he takes Charterris but don't think he will

I agree, Jenkins, ability-wise, is the far better player, the questions is, do you take someone to the world cup who hasnt played rugby this season, although this question is raised by people like shane williams and Halfpenny and Henson aswell, Id argue that its far harder for a prop to come in with little game time. I guess we'll have to see whether he plays the three upcoming games.

"who hasnt played rugby this season" - Yes he has? - He played untill Febuary and had one of his best games for Wales agaisnt Aus in the AIs.

wales606 wrote:"who hasnt played rugby this season" - Yes he has? - He played untill Febuary and had one of his best games for Wales agaisnt Aus in the AIs.

I dont know about 6 Nations dont remember him playing, but I know he hasnt played for Cardiff since the first week of Jan, thats a huge portion of the season for a prop to miss

I agree but he is worth taking a chance on as our options after James are very limited.

bedfordwelsh wrote:I agree but he is worth taking a chance on as our options after James are very limited.

Iestyn Thomas!

Turk,

We all know he should have at least been in the 45 man squad ahead of Yapp would have been my choice.

However I can't see Gatland picking anyone from outside that now unless due to injuries

Martyn Williams looked way past his sell by date on Saturday, Warburton, Turnbull and Tipuric are better bets.
Unless Henson has an epiphany between now and August, he will be a liability so should not be considered.
Bevington, Yapp and Andrews are too weak in the scrum. Bevingtons time will come but the other two are just not up to test standard.
Buggy boy is a liability when he is at the top of his game, which he hasn't been for some time. Delve is an interesting one, he effectively turned his back on Wales by going to Australia, it that the type of commitment that builds a good World Cup team?

How did he turn his back on Wales? I thought he was all set to go to the Blues when they did a U-turn on the Rush deal so he went elsewhere to guarantee himself first team rugby. Don't forget he knows what it's like now to play in the SH - he's an asset to your squad I reckon.

Interesting to see that Manofgwent's assesment can essentially be summed up as - all the dragons players were fantastic and several of the other players were rubbish and should be replaced with other dragons players. You have to laugh.

Guys, whichever region you support, the answer to Wales' problems is not, and never will be simply dropping players from the region you most dislike and filling the team with your favourite local players. Let's take the blinkers off, we're going to the world cup not division two east.

"How did Delve turn his back on Wales?"

By chosing to play his rugby 12,000 miles away in Australia. A little difficult to attend training sessions in Cardiff, don't you think?

If he makes the World Cup squad, he will be unavailable again for the 6 nations. Wales needs to build a team spirit not parachute in mecenaries line Delve and Henson for the high profile tournaments.

Seagultaf, if Gareth Delve is playing well enough to deserve inclusion in the World Cup squad it shouldn't matter where he's playing his rugby.

Morning Seagulltaff

I think you can't compare Mr Henson to Mr Delve

The word was he approached the WRU / Mr G and asked for commitment on both sides, also as a caviet to that he stated that he would attend all training sessions even paying his own air fare. Now thats loyalty and commitment.

The WRU wouldn't make that commitment back, hence Delve thought "hey hoo lets get some experience in one of the hardest leagues in the world playing for and against world class players week in week out"

I would have thought that Delves experience down under would be invaluable during the WC

Flyhalffactory

It takes close to 24hrs to fly one way to Australia, I am sorry I cannot take the senario of commuting from Melbourne to Cardiff, for Wales training sessions seriously.

If Delve was committed to playing for his country, he would be playing his rugby in Europe at least!

Seagultaf wrote:Flyhalffactory

It takes close to 24hrs to fly one way to Australia, I am sorry I cannot take the senario of commuting from Melbourne to Cardiff, for Wales training sessions seriously.

If Delve was committed to playing for his country, he would be playing his rugby in Europe at least!

Completely disagree, Delve is too good to be left behind, playing almost international standard week in week out and proving to be one of the best 8's in Australia.

manofgwent wrote:Dan lydiate lazy? He's a wirkhorse and apparently the strongest player in the welsh squad!

Oh please dont misunderstand me, I think Dan Lydiate is a great player, I just felt he wasnt giving enough support in the scrums to Bevington. It was clear to me that Lydiate was so concerned about making an impact in open play he seemed to be neglecting adding his weight to the Welsh scrum. Though Faletau and Warburton did this on occasion to. Though to be fair the one time I did see Lydiate with his head down, it was when Paressie scooted over to score from a scrum, so he was dammed if he did and dammed if he didnt .

tlazarus9 wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:Flyhalffactory

It takes close to 24hrs to fly one way to Australia, I am sorry I cannot take the senario of commuting from Melbourne to Cardiff, for Wales training sessions seriously.

If Delve was committed to playing for his country, he would be playing his rugby in Europe at least!

Completely disagree, Delve is too good to be left behind, playing almost international standard week in week out and proving to be one of the best 8's in Australia.

Seagulltaff
I Kinda agree with the rationale of that it seems crazy to travel that far to train .............if the training camp is going to be in Cardiff, however is it going to be there?

However I agree with tlazarus9 Delve is proving that he is a class act by the performances down under to such an extent that they have made him vice captain, that experience and exposure to the Aussies/NZ/SA players will be invaluable to the welsh coaching staff

I think it is a decent selection by Mr G which is rare these days, and can only be good for your guys