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Ring Mag: 10 Greatest Living Fighters

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Post by hazharrison on Sun 07 Aug 2016, 3:38 pm

First topic message reminder :

Ring Mag came up with a new list:

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/news/431305-living-legends-who-is-the-greatest-fighter-alive

10. Larry Holmes
9. Manny Pacquiao
8. Jake LaMotta
7. Floyd Mayweather
6. Julio Cesar Chavez
5. Marvin Hagler
4. Evander Holyfield
3. Pernell Whitaker

They haven't published 1 and 2 yet - any ideas?

Ray Leonard and Duran?

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 5:35 pm

His record as champion for 7 years wasn't that great.........

Oldish Kenny N....Shavers...Witherspoon are the standouts (consensus was he lost that fight)....

Weaver and Cooney...Berbick...Smith and Williams were decent wins....Rest was pretty much crap...

Gave up the belt because Page was a good bet and he knew it...

BUT.........Prime Norton......Lyle........Frazier x 2.......and Moorer is pretty much all there is on George's....

Better wins bar Moorer for me but less of them

Wouldn't mind who went higher...

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 7:47 pm

Tough one. For me, Holmes was the better technical boxer and possibly the tougher of the two. Foreman was a phenom - a beast the likes of which we've rarely seen before or since.

Foreman has those giant wins over Norton and Frazier (we can throw the second Frazier fight out as Joe was beyond shot) and the titanic tussle with Ali. Norton remember was reckoned by many to have beaten Ali twice (second bout was a toss-up). He also produced one of the greatest fights/comebacks in heavyweight history against Ron Lyle (pipped only, perhaps, by Holmes climbing off the floor after being blasted by Ernie Shavers). Along with Frazier, he was the only guy to put Chuvalo away. He was beaten comprehensively by Jimmy Young.

Holmes has greater longevity over lesser opposition. The win over Norton was special - pulling it out in the last 30 seconds of a 15 round fight. The Spinks defeats hurt him, though, despite the fact they were contentious decisions and he was probably just going over the hill.

Their second careers were pretty close. Both did about as well as one another against Holyfield. Foreman had that win over Moorer; Holmes spanked an unbeaten Ray Mercer. Holmes very nearly beat McCall for the WBC belt. Foreman was outpointed by Tommy Morrison (still a baffling result) while Holmes was knocked sparko by Tyson.

I think it's a very close argument. Foreman's win over Frazier was massive.

Interestingly, the one guy both of them said they'd have struggled with was Sonny Liston (Liston sparred with Foreman on his way up and, by all accounts, manhandled him - can you imagine that?).

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:49 pm

Here's my Hagler vs Leonard card:

1. Leonard (clear round)
2. Leonard (won it in last minute)
3. Leonard (clear)
4. Leonard (closer)
5. Hagler (landed all hurtful shots)
6. Hagler (swing round – Hagler nicked it)
7. Hagler (clear – hurting Leonard on ropes)
8. Hagler (closer – working Leonard over inside)
9. Leonard (swing round – great round, Leonard sitting down on punches)
10. Hagler (swing round – Hagler nicking it last 30 seconds)
11. Hagler (clear – Leonard hurt, flurries missing largely)
12. Hagler (swing round – Hagler hurting, Leonard theatrical flurries)

115-113 Hagler

Really struggled to score the last - went back and forth and so could quite easily score 114-114 on another day.

Easy to score in retrospect, though. In context, Leonard's effort was remarkable. Judging live would likely have been a different story. It would have been very difficult not to have been caught up in his performance and scored some of the swing rounds differently.

118-110 and 118-111, though. GTFOH.

The first four rounds were Leonard's unquestionably. You can forget those.

I know Pacheco trotted out the line that Hagler lost because he tried to box but he blew those first four rounds because he followed Leonard around rather than cutting the ring off. That had to be tactical, to tire Leonard out. It wasn't like Hagler couldn't cut off a ring.


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Post by milkyboy on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 8:56 pm

Yup hard to imagine anyone manhandling George, even as a teenager. Liston was a great fighter and George had plenty still to learn I guess.

With any top 10 heavy lists, the top 2 pick themselves and then there's a bunfight over the rest of them, these 2 always seem to be near each other around the top 5. Completely different styles, very different records... Bit like the Duran Leonard debate earlier.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:05 pm

Thing with the Hagler v Leonard fight is..... At a stretch and by rose tinted viewing you can only give it to Hagler  7-5...

Whereas there is a case for Leonard winning by 8-4 or more.....

Me I scored it 116-112....Clear win....

Hagler was ineffective..

Talking of Larry.......Best fighter I ever saw when hurt !!!......Had no right escaping from the Shavers and Snipes knockdowns.....Managed to survive Weaver and Witherspoon too when badly shook......and probably would have made it out of the 4th when he had no right to when he got nailed off Tyson...(Had his arm not got caught in the ropes)...Amazing thinking capacity when screwed up..

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:13 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Thing with the Hagler v Leonard fight is..... At a stretch and by rose tinted viewing you can only give it to Hagler  7-5...

Whereas there is a case for Leonard winning by 8-4 or more.....

Me I scored it 116-112....Clear win....

Hagler was ineffective..

Talking of Larry.......Best fighter I ever saw when hurt !!!......Had no right escaping from the Shavers and Snipes knockdowns.....Managed to survive Weaver and Witherspoon too when badly shook......and probably would have made it out of the 4th when he had no right to when he got nailed off Tyson...(Had his arm not got caught in the ropes)...Amazing thinking capacity when screwed up..

I can see a two point swing either way or a draw - Hagler was doing all of the hurting. The only rounds he was ineffective were 1-4.

Version I just caught had Merchant doing a post-fight wrap. 60% of ringsiders polled (fighters, trainers and media bods) went for Hagler or a draw.

Foreman's recovery against Lyle is right there with the Shavers resurrection. Dropped on his face and came back. They don't make heavyweights like those two anymore.

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:34 pm

hazharrison wrote:Here's my Hagler vs Leonard card:

1. Leonard (clear round)
2. Leonard (won it in last minute)
3. Leonard (clear)
4. Leonard (closer)
5. Hagler (landed all hurtful shots)
6. Hagler (swing round – Hagler nicked it)
7. Hagler (clear – hurting Leonard on ropes)
8. Hagler (closer – working Leonard over inside)
9. Leonard (swing round – great round, Leonard sitting down on punches)
10. Hagler (swing round – Hagler nicking it last 30 seconds)
11. Hagler (clear – Leonard hurt, flurries missing largely)
12. Hagler (swing round – Hagler hurting, Leonard theatrical flurries)

115-113 Hagler

Really struggled to score the last - went back and forth and so could quite easily score 114-114 on another day.

Easy to score in retrospect, though. In context, Leonard's effort was remarkable. Judging live would likely have been a different story. It would have been very difficult not to have been caught up in his performance and scored some of the swing rounds differently.

118-110 and 118-111, though. GTFOH.

The first four rounds were Leonard's unquestionably. You can forget those.

I know Pacheco trotted out the line that Hagler lost because he tried to box but he blew those first four rounds because he followed Leonard around rather than cutting the ring off. That had to be tactical, to tire Leonard out. It wasn't like Hagler couldn't cut off a ring.

Almost always the same with close fights, how you read the swing rounds decides how you see the result. You've gone 3-1 hagler on them to get 115-113 hagler, but scores of 116-112 either way wouldn't necessarily be outragous, by that definition. For the record, I didn't think the 11th was clear hagler, think I had that for Leonard but it's been a while.

I had Leonard 115-113 but never had a beef with anyone scoring it for hagler... Just those crying robbery - who I've had the odd spat with down the years!

Only Marv would know if the first four rounds were a tactical decision... To me he tried to outsmart him going orthodox for the first couple and just didn't quite have the legs needed to apply sufficient pressure until Leonard slowed a little.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:35 pm

Clancy and Ryan called it for Leonard by a clear margin when I saw it.....

So did I......But it's one of those fights......

I can't believe anybody thinks Trinidad beat Oscar but they do...7 clear rounds for Oscar in my eyes..

Doesn't mean to say I'm right....Anyone thinks Hagler won good luck to them..

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Post by milkyboy on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:49 pm

The 118-110 card was pretty left field, if the hagler team hadn't objected to Harry Gibbs ( who scored the fight for hagler) they'd have been looking at a split decision win. Fickle finger of fate and all that.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:52 pm

The only ridiculous card was from that third judge (the one the Petronelli's insisted be chucked in last minute because they didn't fancy an English judge). The other two judges scored 7, 8 and 9 for Hagler - he scored them all for Leonard.

Regardless of how the scoring went - Leonard won the night. It was an unbelievable performance considering how much bigger/how much more powerful Hagler was. Hagler had clearly lost a step but hey, Leonard had been off five years.

Forgot how good a fight it was - and how good round nine was. Two ATGs in their last hurrah.

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Post by hazharrison on Wed 31 Aug 2016, 9:55 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Clancy and Ryan called it for Leonard by a clear margin when I saw it.....

So did I......But it's one of those fights......

I can't believe anybody thinks Trinidad beat Oscar but they do...7 clear rounds for Oscar in my eyes..

Doesn't mean to say I'm right....Anyone thinks Hagler won good luck to them..

I just watched a version with Tompkins and Merchant (what a team that is) and it was much more sober commentating. In the usual version, Clancy et al. go crazy when Leonard flurries. Merchant just pauses and points out that they all missed.

Think Tompkins might be my all time favourite ahead of Dunphy.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 10:40 am

AdamT wrote:He seems to only rate American fighters and Khan.

Or anyone about to fight Floyd....

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:07 am

I can see why the judge had it 118-110...Leonard's work was more eye catching....and he finished a lot of the rounds strongly to catch the eye....

Like Jeff Ryan's 118-111 it was out of kilter..

I had it 8-4...Like the Vito fight...Hagler only had himself to blame..

Interesting that Leonard gave Hearns the win when they drew but stated never in a million years did he lose against Marv..

I agree.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:13 am

Gets on well with Tommy though can't stand the sight of Marv

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:14 am

I could see two points either way or a draw by the way against Marv

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:23 am

Fair enough...Like I said it's what you see.

Hearns for my money is the nicest guy of the four..

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:32 am

No doubt and definitely beat Sugar Ray in their return

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:43 am

yeh, the knockdowns the difference in that fight. Tommy hard done by and took the decision with great dignity.

Neither at their best by then, but still made for a great fight.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 11:52 am

Did you think it was a great fight, milky? Never really caught fire for me. Tommy was good that night and physically he looked big and in great shape. I'd like to have seen that version against Hagler

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:07 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I can see why the judge had it 118-110...Leonard's work was more eye catching....and he finished a lot of the rounds strongly to catch the eye....

Like Jeff Ryan's 118-111 it was out of kilter..

I had it 8-4...Like the Vito fight...Hagler only had himself to blame..

Interesting that Leonard gave Hearns the win when they drew but stated never in a million years did he lose against Marv..

I agree.

Hagler swears blind Leonard whispered "You beat me" directly afterwards. But there you go.

The Antuofermo fight was daylight robbery.

1180-110 was ridiculous - and was called out for being so at the time. Hell of a performance from Ray but it was a desperately close fight.

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:10 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Did you think it was a great fight, milky? Never really caught fire for me. Tommy was good that night and physically he looked big and in great shape. I'd like to have seen that version against Hagler

It was a great fight between two fighters who were no longer great. Leonard almost had Hearns out of there twice and was flattened himself twice in return. Had it been 15 rounds, I think Leonard may well have stopped him at the death again. Hearns showed the recuperative powers and survival skills many felt he lacked.

Saying that, had Hagler vs Leonard been 15 rounds, he might well have ran out of steam. Hagler had him hurt just before the bell.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:32 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Did you think it was a great fight, milky? Never really caught fire for me. Tommy was good that night and physically he looked big and in great shape. I'd like to have seen that version against Hagler

Ebb and flow, hearns on top, Leonard comes back into it looks like he might sneak it then Tommy drops him in the penultimate round only for Leonard to chase him round the ring in the 12th. Past their best as I said, but plenty of drama and quality action from a couple of greats... With the result always in doubt... Worked for me hermy!

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:34 pm

Weren't a bad fight milky but c'mon a great fight? Ray wouldn't engage enough but then he rarely did after Duran 1

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Post by Guest on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:37 pm

hazharrison wrote:1180-110 was ridiculous

You're telling me!

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:45 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:1180-110 was ridiculous

You're telling me!

You should hear my highest darts score...


Last edited by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Guest on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:46 pm

hazharrison wrote:
DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:1180-110 was ridiculous

You're telling me!

You should hear my darts high score...
That's what you get for throwing hedgehogs at the board

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 12:47 pm

DAVE667 wrote:
hazharrison wrote:1180-110 was ridiculous

You're telling me!

Looks like a Richie woodhall card when a Brit's fighting.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 1:46 pm

hazharrison wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I can see why the judge had it 118-110...Leonard's work was more eye catching....and he finished a lot of the rounds strongly to catch the eye....

Like Jeff Ryan's 118-111 it was out of kilter..

I had it 8-4...Like the Vito fight...Hagler only had himself to blame..

Interesting that Leonard gave Hearns the win when they drew but stated never in a million years did he lose against Marv..

I agree.

Hagler swears blind Leonard whispered "You beat me" directly afterwards. But there you go.

Leonard swears blind he didn't...

But you like Marvin....So it must be true..

Hagler beat Vito but he let him get into the fight ...I had it 9-6 to Marv when it shouldn't have been that close....He gave a sucker a break !!.....Like with the Duran and Leonard fights he was his own worst enemy..

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Post by AdamT on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 1:54 pm

Hagler was a beast, but is he a tad overrated?

Like SRL was a blown up inactive Welter and beat him. Also Duran gave him a tough fight. No matter how great Duran was, surely Hagler should of dealt with him rather easily.



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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:22 pm

Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:27 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

Anyone know what the French phrase for deja vu is?

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:29 pm

AdamT wrote:Hagler... Is he a tad overrated?


I think truss did a thread on this a while back... It didn't end well!

+ hagler really earned his dues before even becoming champion
+ he had a long reign and was never really threatened
+ he beat two great fighters in Duran and hearns

- there wasn't much quality opposition during his reign, excepting the smaller, fab 4 guys moving up

When you watch how he took apart a very good fighter like sibson and dismantled a tough if limited guy like hamsho, there's no doubt he was a great fighter... He did appear to fluff his lines a bit in the Duran and Leonard fights... The Leonard one we can question his tactics and maybe excuse his age... It's the Duran fight, albeit a win, that raises the most question marks for me.

Whichever, all records can be queried, undoubtedly one of the great middleweights.

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:32 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

Does this nonsense help convince you that the criticism Mayweather receives is unfair?

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:37 pm

superflyweight wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

Anyone know what the French phrase for deja vu is?

It's c'est la vie, I believe super. Anytime you need more linguistic assistance, you know where to find me.

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:40 pm

milkyboy wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

Anyone know what the French phrase for deja vu is?

It's c'est la vie, I believe super. Anytime you need more linguistic assistance, you know where to find me.

Cheers milky - you might be a slum landlord, but you still managed to be a real international man of distinction.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:49 pm

deja vu is a French phrase... Cool

"roulent comme a ivre" ......Rolled like a drunk..... Wink

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 2:59 pm

Laugh

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:02 pm

milkyboy wrote:
AdamT wrote:Hagler... Is he a tad overrated?


I think truss did a thread on this a while back... It didn't end well!

+ hagler really earned his dues before even becoming champion
+ he had a long reign and was never really threatened
+ he beat two great fighters in Duran and hearns

- there wasn't much quality opposition during his reign, excepting the smaller, fab 4 guys moving up

When you watch how he took apart a very good fighter like sibson and dismantled a tough if limited guy like hamsho, there's no doubt he was a great fighter... He did appear to fluff his lines a bit in the Duran and Leonard fights... The Leonard one we can question his tactics and maybe excuse his age... It's the Duran fight, albeit a win, that raises the most question marks for me.

Whichever, all records can be queried, undoubtedly one of the great middleweights.

I think he was the greatest middleweight champ we've had. I've always had Hagler and Monzon on level pegging but I'm starting to lean more towards Hagler. He would probably have surpassed Monzon's record had he not been kept away from the title for so long (when he was in with tougher competition in Briscoe, Watts, Hart etc.).

The Duran fight was disappointing. After seeming on the verge of a dominating win in the 6th, Hagler drifted a bit and put in a workmanlike shift. He closed strongly, though and deserved the win. Duran, though, was one of the greatest fighters who ever lived at any weight, who was in rude form and in top shape (which didn't happen often post-welter). He had a great night (might have been greater still had his hand not gone).

You have to give Duran credit - he put in a comparable shift to Leonard against a better version of Marvin (without any stipulations on ring size, rounds etc.).

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Post by AdamT on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:04 pm

Hagler has two great wins. Both smaller guys. Not saying he isn't great, but I see the man himself mouthing off about current fighters not being great.

Truss does ask the question and I am going too now. Why didn't Hagler fight Spinks? Was there ever a time this fight was an option?? (before my time)

Is it blasphemy for me to say Jones Jr would beat Hagler with a bit to spare??

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:09 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:deja vu is a French phrase... Cool

I see your French is improving truss. No more 'eating snails when you think you're ordering mushrooms' for you matey!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:12 pm

milkyboy wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:deja vu is a French phrase... Cool

I see your French is improving truss. No more 'eating snails when you think you're ordering mushrooms' for you matey!

You'll never let me forget that one....."Champignons" I get it now !! thumbsup

I have Hopkins above Marv.......Monzon above both....

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:13 pm

superflyweight wrote:
milkyboy wrote:
superflyweight wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Too happy to feast on crap at 160 than to risk losing........Adam

We got guys like Haz calling "130 pounder" Mayweather a coward for not fighting GGG at 160.....

Then saying it is acceptable for Hagler to fight Hamsho and Obelmijas twice at 160 and not fight Spinks who routinely came in at 171 anyway...

Spinks would have hammered Hagler...

Also Hearns didn't deserve a rematch for knocking out the number 1 contender Shuler and being involved in the fight of the decade apparently..

No Sirree but a three year retired welterweight who was decked by a journeyman in his last fight deserved a shot more.....

Anyone know what the French phrase for deja vu is?

It's c'est la vie, I believe super. Anytime you need more linguistic assistance, you know where to find me.

Cheers milky - you might be a slum landlord, but you still managed to be a real international man of distinction.  

I spend my slum landlord takings on the finer things in life... I only drink champagne... And not any champagne... Just the French stuff!

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:15 pm

AdamT wrote:Hagler has two great wins. Both smaller guys. Not saying he isn't great, but I see the man himself mouthing off about current fighters not being great.

Truss does ask the question and I am going too now. Why didn't Hagler fight Spinks? Was there ever a time this fight was an option?? (before my time)

Is it blasphemy for me to say Jones Jr would beat Hagler with a bit to spare??

He was an ATG - a legendary fighter Adam. He scored great wins over Briscoe, Watts (rematch), Hart, Hearns, Minter and Mugabi.

The Spinks fight wasn't ever on the table for various reasons (we've done it to death previously).


Last edited by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:16 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:15 pm

Hagler is a top five man at Middleweight but he's some way behind Monzon who for my money has one of if not the greatest championship reign of all time.

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:17 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Hagler is a top five man at Middleweight but he's some way behind Monzon who for my money has one of if not the greatest championship reign of all time.

I can see that argument but it's those two clear of the rest.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:23 pm

Harry Greb might have something to say about that and to be honest Hagler is closer to the rest than he is to Monzon; it's the way he could win any which way he chose and you'll be hard pushed to find anyone else who's reign consists entirely of top five opposition.

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Post by milkyboy on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:23 pm

changing the direction of this...

Often when i watch golovkin, I find myself wondering how a fight between him and marv would pan out. Not comparing records, just head to head... be a real bruiser

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:25 pm

milkyboy wrote:changing the direction of this...

Often when i watch golovkin, I find myself wondering how a fight between him and marv would pan out. Not comparing records, just head to head... be a real bruiser

Hagler would have to box him, like he had to box Briscoe. I don't think even Hagler could win a fire fight with GGG.

We need to see Golovkin in a fight really, before we can make a case for him beating Hagler.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:27 pm

milkyboy wrote:changing the direction of this...

Often when i watch golovkin, I find myself wondering how a fight between him and marv would pan out. Not comparing records, just head to head... be a real bruiser

Be a great match......I think style wise Hagler would prefer Golovkin to a Nunn or Jones jr.....

Certainly answer questions about Golovkin's tank and his ability under pressure...

We need to know more about Golovkin before you can pick a winner me thinks..

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Post by hazharrison on Thu 01 Sep 2016, 3:31 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Harry Greb might have something to say about that and to be honest Hagler is closer to the rest than he is to Monzon; it's the way he could win any which way he chose and you'll be hard pushed to find anyone else who's reign consists entirely of top five opposition.

I'd like to see a comparison between Hagler and Monzon (in terms of top ranked contenders faced). There's one on the net somewhere.

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