Who Was The Greatest Middleweight Puncher Of All Time?

With so much talk about Gennady Golovkin's power ahead of his catchweight bout with Brook (for me, Golovkin is more a pressure fighter than a knockout artist) who does 606v2 feel was the greatest middleweight puncher in history?

Multiple votes permitted - so go for your top three.

No Darren Barker on that list?

Pedro147 wrote:No Darren Barker on that list?

Just missed out along with Eubank Jr.

You promise you won't have another breakdown like you did on the Maidana thread if I don't pick GGG and go for Fitz ??

hazharrison wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:No Darren Barker on that list?

Just missed out along with Eubank Jr.

You run a tight ship.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You promise you won't have another breakdown like you did on the Maidana thread if I don't pick GGG and go for Fitz ??

You do know that Fitz is foreign, just like all those horrible Commies?

If we are going on weight rather than division...Tommy Burns used to weigh around 160...

As he destroyed heavies I'd have probably gone for him..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If we are going on weight rather than division...Tommy Burns used to weigh around 160...

As he destroyed heavies I'd have probably gone for him..

We're not.

Burns couldn't lay a glove on Johnson, Stanley Ketchel dropped Papa Jack (before losing several teeth, that is!)

Peter Jackson ever fight at middle ??

They wouldn't allow it, he was too magnificent.

Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

In terms of accomplishments and flattening guys they really had no business flattening due to weight differentials, you’d probably have to go with Fitzsimmons. But I’m going to let my instincts rule over the finer details here and go with Jackson, with Fitzsimmons just a shade behind.

That’s largely because of the sheer volume of chilling Jackson knockouts we’ve all seen on film. Yep, some such as Norris and Drayton were at 154, but even at the higher weight there’s Graham, Powell, Milton, Negron etc. The sheer savagery of those knockouts was incredible, and once you’ve seen them they’re forever etched in to your mind.

Even for those regarded as great punchers, genuine one-punch knockouts in the conventional sense are relatively rare. But Jackson didn’t get you in trouble and then finish you, and he didn’t gradually beat on you until you caved in. He’d just turn an opponent’s lights clean out, in a split second. Their whole bodies would just go lifeless once he’d connected cleanly. I just don’t think any other Middleweight has been able to completely annihilate opponents in such a devastating manner with one shot ever before, and it might be a while before we see his like again.

Just an absolutely phenomenal puncher.

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

Fair point Haz!

88Chris05 wrote:In terms of accomplishments and flattening guys they really had no business flattening due to weight differentials, you’d probably have to go with Fitzsimmons. But I’m going to let my instincts rule over the finer details here and go with Jackson, with Fitzsimmons just a shade behind.

That’s largely because of the sheer volume of chilling Jackson knockouts we’ve all seen on film. Yep, some such as Norris and Drayton were at 154, but even at the higher weight there’s Graham, Powell, Milton, Negron etc. The sheer savagery of those knockouts was incredible, and once you’ve seen them they’re forever etched in to your mind.

Even for those regarded as great punchers, genuine one-punch knockouts in the conventional sense are relatively rare. But Jackson didn’t get you in trouble and then finish you, and he didn’t gradually beat on you until you caved in. He’d just turn an opponent’s lights clean out, in a split second. Their whole bodies would just go lifeless once he’d connected cleanly. I just don’t think any other Middleweight has been able to completely annihilate opponents in such a devastating manner with one shot ever before, and it might be a while before we see his like again.

Just an absolutely phenomenal puncher.

I'm with you there. I watched a Jackson highlight just the other week and it was mesmerising. It was almost as if he had a taser attached to his glove. As you've said, the Norris kayo was 154 but that was chilling how he froze him.

I've read a bit about Satterfield - plenty have him as the best puncher at 160.

A lot of the old timers would say Robinson. However his punch power was more lethal at 147. Even in some of the old film, you can see that SRR had a very good punch at MW. Though not enough to top this list.

As mentioned GGG is devastating. Every punch seems to hurt, but as far as one punch power, he wouldn't even rate much higher than Canelo.

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

Fair point Haz!

Also thought about Pavlik, Miranda and Mugabi.

88Chris05 wrote:In terms of accomplishments and flattening guys they really had no business flattening due to weight differentials, you’d probably have to go with Fitzsimmons. But I’m going to let my instincts rule over the finer details here and go with Jackson, with Fitzsimmons just a shade behind.

That’s largely because of the sheer volume of chilling Jackson knockouts we’ve all seen on film. Yep, some such as Norris and Drayton were at 154, but even at the higher weight there’s Graham, Powell, Milton, Negron etc. The sheer savagery of those knockouts was incredible, and once you’ve seen them they’re forever etched in to your mind.

Even for those regarded as great punchers, genuine one-punch knockouts in the conventional sense are relatively rare. But Jackson didn’t get you in trouble and then finish you, and he didn’t gradually beat on you until you caved in. He’d just turn an opponent’s lights clean out, in a split second. Their whole bodies would just go lifeless once he’d connected cleanly. I just don’t think any other Middleweight has been able to completely annihilate opponents in such a devastating manner with one shot ever before, and it might be a while before we see his like again.

Just an absolutely phenomenal puncher.

I find the Jackson - Wayne Powell ko sickening..

Loved to have seen Jackson V Mugabi at 154.

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

Fair point Haz!

Also thought about Pavlik, Miranda and Mugabi.

Allan Green?? Also did Abraham have heavy hands at 160?

I guess there are loads. Your original list is probably the most accurate.

Green was a SM! I should know!

Not a contender for the top spot by any means, but Rodrigo Valdez wouldn't look too out of place amongst a couple of the names here. More a stylish boxer-puncher, but look what he did to Briscoe in their second fight. That was Briscoe's only ever defeat inside-schedule; neither Hagler nor Monzon managed it. Moreover, Valdez did it with a single shot.

Venturing in to the realms of 'what if?' here, I guess, but the short-lived 160 lb version of Roy Jones must have been one of the most crushing Middleweight punchers ever, and would surely have shown that if he'd have stayed at the weight longer. I've effused about Jackson's fearsome hitting above, but one of the very, very few men who stood up (well, there was one knockdown but you get my drift!) to Jackson's power having tasted a lot of it for twelve full rounds was Thomas Tate. 'The Hawk' landed plenty of leather on Tate, so safe to say Tate's chin was top notch - but Jones ironed him out with a single left hook at 160. Tate was never stopped again afterwards, either. Scary power.

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

Fair point Haz!

Also thought about Pavlik, Miranda and Mugabi.

Allan Green?? Also did Abraham have heavy hands at 160?

I guess there are loads. Your original list is probably the most accurate.

Abraham definitely. Bricks in his gloves.

88Chris05 wrote:Not a contender for the top spot by any means, but Rodrigo Valdez wouldn't look too out of place amongst a couple of the names here. More a stylish boxer-puncher, but look what he did to Briscoe in their second fight. That was Briscoe's only ever defeat inside-schedule; neither Hagler nor Monzon managed it. Moreover, Valdez did it with a single shot.

Venturing in to the realms of 'what if?' here, I guess, but the short-lived 160 lb version of Roy Jones must have been one of the most crushing Middleweight punchers ever, and would surely have shown that if he'd have stayed at the weight longer. I've effused about Jackson's fearsome hitting above, but one of the very, very few men who stood up (well, there was one knockdown but you get my drift!) to Jackson's power having tasted a lot of it for twelve full rounds was Thomas Tate. 'The Hawk' landed plenty of leather on Tate, so safe to say Tate's chin was top notch - but Jones ironed him out with a single left hook at 160. Tate was never stopped again afterwards, either. Scary power.

12 rounds against Jackson can't have helped! Tate wound Jones up before that fight and we saw a way more assertive Jones than was usual. Cracking shot - he really did look like a super being at that point.

Lindell Holmes was a big hitter at 160 before he moved to 168..

Had a very high KO percentage...Heavy hands.

Any list of middleweight punchers must contain Rocky Graziano and his great rival Tony Zale, both were all time great punchers and i think a level above most mentioned above in terms of power. I would only put the murderous punching Hearns and Ketchel alongside them at middleweight.

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:Can only judge opponents I have seen. So I'm going with Julian Jackson. The guy can f.....g punch!

Should Nigel Benn have a place on this list? He had some flaws, but he could punch VERY hard at 160!

I thought about it but he didn't ever really bang anyone out that was world class (or anywhere near) at 160. DeWitt and Barkley were past their sell-by-dates (thought the KO of granite-jawed DeWitt was notable).

Fair point Haz!

Also thought about Pavlik, Miranda and Mugabi.

Allan Green?? Also did Abraham have heavy hands at 160?

I guess there are loads. Your original list is probably the most accurate.

Abraham definitely. Bricks in his gloves.

He probably did have bricks in his gloves in Germany, and his shoes looking at his foot movement.

Surprised to see Langford not getting more mentions. If you're going to class him as a middleweight, and his inclusion on the poll suggests we are he has to be in contention. How many on the list could we genuinely say could move up in division (not necessarily in weight always) and KO top tier heavyweights with something approaching regularity. Langford did just that, furthermore most of those heavyweights pretty much say across the board Langford was the heaviest hitter they ever faced.

Langford holds a KO win over Jennette (nobody KOed Joe) Fireman Jim Flynn, who fought them all from pre Johnson to Dempsey maintained to his dying day nobody hit harder than Sam and even as a very old man nearly blind still carried enough power to separate the very decent soon to be champion Tiger Flowers from his senses. He absolutely must be in the mix as the greatest puncher ever possibly irrespective of division.

Historically, I always point to Jackson in this debate for the reasons already cited. From the same era, mugabi and McClellan for honorable mentions. You can question the calibre of oppo for mugabi, the g-man had that rangy hearnsrsque punching power, but as Chris said, for pure 1 punch snap it's hard to beat jackson. Sadly for Julian, When he met the guys who could take his shots he generally got knocked out himself.

Jackson McClellan 1 is a good watch if you like your artillery heavy.

Rowley wrote:Surprised to see Langford not getting more mentions. If you're going to class him as a middleweight, and his inclusion on the poll suggests we are he has to be in contention. How many on the list could we genuinely say could move up in division (not necessarily in weight always) and KO top tier heavyweights with something approaching regularity. Langford did just that, furthermore most of those heavyweights pretty much say across the board Langford was the heaviest hitter they ever faced.

Langford holds a KO win over Jennette (nobody KOed Joe) Fireman Jim Flynn, who fought them all from pre Johnson to Dempsey maintained to his dying day nobody hit harder than Sam and even as a very old man nearly blind still carried enough power to separate the very decent soon to be champion Tiger Flowers from his senses. He absolutely must be in the mix as the greatest puncher ever possibly irrespective of division.

If I was only being even a little cynical, I'd suggest that Dempsey may have been pulling his punches against Flynn.

Yeah, you’re right there, Jeff. People often have a hard time ranking Langford historically in any particular weight class in terms of his achievements due to his freakish ability to make a mockery of the divisions, so I guess maybe people are put off trying to rate him as a puncher in any single division as well, and prefer to look at him purely as a pound-for-pounder. But as you allude to, it should be a bit easier to rate him within the confines of a single division as a puncher than it is as an overall fighter, so he has to be considered a contender for the top spot here.

I’d probably put him in my top three along with Jackson and Fitzsimmons. All this talk of Ruby Rob and Langford here, Mayweather and Robinson on the other thread….Could it be time to revisit an ever-lasting 606 classic and dust off the pound for pound all-time lists!!??....

Good point chris... The forum needs an excuse to debate the historical rating of Floyd in context of the old greats... Poor guy barely gets a look in these days and that sounds like an ideal ice breaker!