An Evening with...

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:

Atila wrote:Then haven't you been conned? You're supposed to score the whole round, and how long a fighter has been out of the ring shouldn't affect your judgement.

Fighters are taught to finish the round strongly to impress the judges in a close round , but ultimately I agree, you should score the whole round or you've been conned.

I scored the whole rounds. Thought Leonard won enough of them. Two judges gave credible cards, one lost the plot.

Leonard's a divisive figure and plenty of cards in both directions probably reflect personal like or dislike for him as well as personal taste in what you favour in close rounds. Hagler offered pressure and workrate, Leonard offered more moments of quality.

I agree with haz, that if you didn't know who they were you'd likely see a close fight. I'd suggest that if you swapped hearns for Leonard it probably wouldn't be seen as so controversial - just a close fight and somebody gets the decision.

I think I may have made my opinions on the mcilvanney piece known once or twice before... Possibly three times

Myself, I'd suggest that if it wasn't for Leonard's layoff, he wouldn't have got the decision. He threw less but landed a mere 15 more punches over the fight, but somehow, according some posters it was an easy fight to score for Leonard?

Here's a wild theory of mine. If Hagler did blow the first 4 rounds as I constantly hear, it's quite possible that that's were Leonard's 15 punch advantage was made. Hagler might very well have outlanded Leonard during the rest of the fight.

If anyone has a link or any info on the punchstats for this fight that were done round by round, please post it.

Think you underlined my point there. Everyone who thinks hagler won has a theory on why Leonard got the decision, but most of the same people saw a close fight. Why does there have to be a reason, other than two judges who saw the same fight as most of us, who favoured different things... And one who was erm, a bit blinkered.

Larry Merchant cracked a great line when he said Leonard stole the fight, legitimately stole the fight.

Caught an ESPN doc the other day (looking for those punch stats) where Leonard claimed to have taken Hagler out to dinner after the Mugabi fight. Real old pals act. He then managed to get Hagler to admit he no longer had it anymore, admit that he cut too easily and had lost his mojo - at which point he made the fight. Can that possibly be true? That's brinksmanship on another level!

Well he certainly said it! You'd imagine it probably helped Marv get his mojo back for their fight. Don't imagine he lacked desire for the fight... Just the legs maybe.

SRL reckons he was half cut in that press conference where he invited hagler along for a big announcement.. and then retired... Claims he didn't actually know what he was going to say. Who knows, he obviously wasn't in a great place at that time!

I quite like the story about almost getting starched by Quincy Taylor in sparring and changing his strategy from standing his ground to sticking and moving at the last minute. Best punch he ever took he says.

Who needs to go to 'the evening with' we've heard all the stories already!

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.
Quiet beating? What quiet beating? I never saw one.

Atila wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.

Traitor.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.
Quiet beating? What quiet beating? I never saw one.

AdamT wrote:What makes the Ray win even more awesome, is the inactivity.

Surely the greatest MW in history doesn't lose to an inactive Welter, no matter how great.

Though Marvin definitely is the greatest!

hazharrison wrote:

AdamT wrote:What makes the Ray win even more awesome, is the inactivity.

Surely the greatest MW in history doesn't lose to an inactive Welter, no matter how great.

Though Marvin definitely is the greatest!

hazharrison wrote:

Atila wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.

Traitor.

Ha! It was pretty awesome to get a pic with him and just see him in the flesh. Routine was well rehearsed and his brain is sharp as a tack. After the mere mention of Hagler received applause, Ray was quick to start praising him as "the greatest middleweight in history". Still knows how to make an audience dance to his tune.

They're talking about doing a Fab Four tour over here. That would be pretty cool.

milkyboy wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Atila wrote:

hazharrison wrote:I changed my Hagler-Leonard score to 115-113 SRL after seeing him.

Traitor.

Ha! It was pretty awesome to get a pic with him and just see him in the flesh. Routine was well rehearsed and his brain is sharp as a tack. After the mere mention of Hagler received applause, Ray was quick to start praising him as "the greatest middleweight in history". Still knows how to make an audience dance to his tune.

They're talking about doing a Fab Four tour over here. That would be pretty cool.

Yes, praise the guys you beat as the best ever!

It's interesting he accepts hearns beat him in the return, doesnt say that about the hagler fight.... but is also pretty non-committal... with his cryptic responses about 'it's not what the judges say, it's how you feel when you look in the mirror' (paraphrasing) I.e. He felt like a winner because he was proud of his performance but if others feel he lost the fight he's fine with that.

AdamT wrote:Marv is very bitter about the defeat. Maybe he believes he won. Though I think he is kicking himself, because deep down he knows he didn't do enough and shouldn't of lost the fight.

milkyboy wrote:I went, haz went. By the time 250 people had their photos taken with him and they'd auctioned a bunch of stuff, he wasn't in the ring telling stories for long. You could bid for two minutes of pad work with him, which was pretty cool for the 4 lads that did it.

He had a permanent smile and looked in pretty good shape for 60. You'd have left hating him even more Atila. We're such a thing possible!

Atila wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I went, haz went. By the time 250 people had their photos taken with him and they'd auctioned a bunch of stuff, he wasn't in the ring telling stories for long. You could bid for two minutes of pad work with him, which was pretty cool for the 4 lads that did it.

He had a permanent smile and looked in pretty good shape for 60. You'd have left hating him even more Atila. We're such a thing possible!

I don't hate anybody in this world, not even you Milky.  

Seriously though, it sounds like you and Haz had a good time. Pleased for you both.