Wales v South Africa, 26 November

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WALES v SOUTH AFRICA
26 November 2016
KO: 17:30 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on BBC Two & S4C

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Assistant Referees: Greg Garner (England), Tom Foley (England)
TMO: Graham Hughes (England)

A. Head to Head

31 Played 31
2 Won 28
1 Drawn 1
28 Lost 2
837 Points 459

B. Recent Form

17 October 2015
Twickenham Stadium, London, England
23–19 to South Africa

29 November 2014
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
12–6 to Wales

21 June 2014
Mbombela Stadium, Nelspruit
31–30 to South Africa

14 June 2014
Growthpoint Kings Park, Durban
38–16 to South Africa

9 November 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
15–24 to South Africa

11 September 2011
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
17–16 to South Africa

13 November 2010
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
25–29 to South Africa

C. Teams

WALES 

Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, Liam Williams; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins (capt), Owens, Francis, Charteris, Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Hill, Faletau, Lloyd Williams, S Davies, Roberts.

SOUTH AFRICA

Johan Goosen; Ruan Combrinck, Francois Venter, Rohan Janse van Rensburg, Jamba Ulengo; Elton Jantjies, Faf de Klerk; Tendai Mtawariri, Adriaan Strauss (capt), Lourens Adriaanse, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Lood de Jager, Nizaam Carr, Uzair Cassiem, Warren Whiteley.

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, teven Kitshoff, Trevor Nyakane, Franco Mostert, Jean-Luc du Preez, Piet van Zyl, Pat Lambie, Lionel Mapoe.

RiscaGame wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Hey. If Wales lose this and Scotland win against Georgia, we could send up swapping places in the rankings.

Save it for when you beat us in the 6 Nations,

The way Wales have bean playing in the Autumn internationals. That could well be a possibility.

Are you trying to be clever again, Madge? I've acknowledged it's more than a possibility, so I don't see the point of your post. Maybe stick to personal attacks like the disgusting one you did the other day instead?

That's why Wales have been playing so poorly though. All that bean playing is really a disruptive influence. One of our better players is even moving to London to get more of a fix. How can the players execute Howler's amazing tactics, when they're so distracted?

RiscaGame.

Wales all ways start off slow at the start of tournaments, but normaly they improve as the tournament goes on.

But this year they have not improved is it because Gatland is missing?

Or is it because of the coaches that have been left in charge in his absense?

What is the problem this year?

majesticimperialman wrote:RiscaGame.

Wales all ways start off slow at the start of tournaments, but normaly they improve as the tournament goes on.

But this year they have not improved is it because Gatland is missing?

Or is it because of the coaches that have been left in charge in his absense?

What is the problem  this year?

Are you sitting comfortably?

This game could be brutal. South Africa have been rightfully mauled in their press so I can't imagine anything other than a team of berserkers taking the field.

It's going to be a great watch as long as it's controlled.

whatblackdog wrote:This game could be brutal. South Africa have been rightfully mauled in their press so I can't imagine anything other than a team of berserkers taking the field.

It's going to be a great watch as long as it's controlled.

Have a game of footy instead I reckon.
Be down to 5-a-side within the hour.

whatblackdog wrote:This game could be brutal. South Africa have been rightfully mauled in their press so I can't imagine anything other than a team of berserkers taking the field.

It's going to be a great watch as long as it's controlled.

The boks aren't the only ones getting lashed by the media blackdog. Heck even Eddie Jones has had a go at us! I imagine there will be a 'boklash' from SA and if we don't deal with the physicality then I can only see a repeat of the hammering served up to Wales by Australia. Anyway, team announcement in a couple hours, I can't wait...

Wales: Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, Liam Williams; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins (capt), Owens, Francis, Charteris, Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Hill, Faletau, Lloyd Williams, S Davies, Roberts.

...being as it's not updated in here. The team is almost correct but I've already said what I think we should have selected. What I will say is that I like Hill, but perhaps the bigger and more abrasive Jake Ball was required to take the bench spot when playing a team like SA; also Lloyd Williams would be nowhere near my squad.

I am not a fan of Lydiate being involved at all, even taking into account Warburton's injury. I would play faletau until he tires (if that happens) and then bring somebody else off the bench who isn't a passenger like Lydiate.

I can just about remember when Lydiate was a good flanker rather than a passenger. I think he's in to add some meat to the pack. Jenkins, Tips and Moriarty will be doing all the hard work I imagine.

2013 he had some value. Same as a few others involved with Team Wales (Roberts, Cuthbert and even Shaun Edwards). Sadly for us now, teams have evolved whilst we haven't.

15 Johan Goosen, 14 Ruan Combrinck, 13 Francois Venter, 12 Rohan Janse van Rensburg, 11 Jamba Ulengo, 10 Elton Jantjies, 9 Faf de Klerk, 8 Warren Whiteley, 7 Uzair Cassiem, 6 Nizaam Carr, 5 Lood de Jager, 4 Pieter-Steph du Toit, 3 Lourens Adriaanse, 2 Adriaan Strauss (captain), 1 Tendai Mtawarira

Well thats one way to go when facing a crisis. Take away the locks and that's probably the weakest springbok side I've ever seen.

Welsh form aside I reckon this bok side will lose by 15+.

Is it just me or is Beeaaast one of the most overrated props ever ?

munkian wrote:Is it just me or is Beeaaast one of the most overrated props ever ?

I actually rate him. He's a decent player. However he's not a 100 cap type player in reality. Probably a 40-50 cap guy. The problem is the usual SA politics issue. He's decent so he's never ever dropped. Guys like Kitsoff can't get his berth and at best get bench duty. Its not to say Tendai isn't worthy its that he cannot be challenged and in part I think that reduces his own incentives to improve.

What happens when a guy never gets challenged, never gets dropped, never kept on his toes?

I'm pretty unfamiliar with their back-row along with 11,12 and 13. It seems like a team looking to play route 1 rugby? We definitely won't win by 15+, I might have to remove my own testicles and walk to my local if we pull that off.

I wouldn't say Beast is overrated, he's certainly of the best LH's I've seen - not sure of his form right now so if it's pretty bad I guess that's why you claimed he was overrated.

Fairy nuff. I just remember this fuss over him then Adam Jones handing showing him his arse on the 2009 lions tour.

munkian wrote:Fairy nuff. I just remember this fuss over him then Adam Jones handing showing him his arse on the 2009 lions tour.

A little exaggerated wouldn't you say. 2nd test the lions got forwards parity, I wouldn't say he was dominated.

I just guess the crowd noise when he gets the ball is always a little short lived.

He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Look, can't we all just agree ROG lost us the series ?

Why on here do you think Warby was exceptable at 6 but not Lyds i have seen on another thread that Kingy and Lyds made about the same tackle count but Warby made just 3 and missed 3 and did littleness just don't understand you Welsh fans one rule for one player and another for others

munkian wrote:Look, can't we all just agree ROG lost us the series ?

Give him a break... he had about 3 hitman on him at the time. When your bookie cashes in your IOU and you're half a bar in his pocket.... you got to do the deed or pay the price.

should have read little else

irnbrew wrote:Why on here do you think Warby was exceptable at 6 but not Lyds i have seen on another thread that Kingy and Lyds made about the same tackle count but Warby made just 3 and missed 3 and did littleness just don't understand you Welsh fans one rule for one player and another for others

'Warby' is much better over the ball and occasionally makes a few carries. Lydiate is still a one trick pony who seems to have forgotten his trick.

Saying that, if he tackles his heart out like he used to then all will be forgiven.

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Nah I'd use dominated rather than massacred. You should note that in the 3rd test Phil Vickery was the starting TH. The 2nd test was going well for the Lions until O'Gara lost it for them... Not using anything as a yardstick here but your bias is quite comical nonetheless.

to be honest this bok side probably negates a Lydiate, Worsley type blindside.

Whiteley, Cassiem & Carr are powder puff. I've seen bigger in U18s.

Locks are big mind and they will do a lot of carrying but still. Ball carrying is nothing compared to a few years back of Alberts, Burger, Eben, Duane, Frans Steyn, Bissie etc.

I'd say Wales should dominate upfront and when Wales do that... they tend to accelerate away from teams.
I'd stand by my 15 point Welsh victory.

Jantjies is a poor kicker and a real confidence player. Goosen is ok but I feel he will garry owens thrown down his alley so much that his attacking flair will be worn down come the time he actually gets ball.

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Poor officiating from what I remember.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Poor officiating from what I remember.

Horrible officiating all tour - not to mention the gouge gate

uncle_nigel wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Nah I'd use dominated rather than massacred. You should note that in the 3 test Phil Vickery was the starting TH. The 2nd test was going well for the Lions until O'Gara lost it for them... Not using anything as a yardstick here but your bias is quite comical nonetheless.

my point too. Yet the 1st test was an absolute hands in face disaster and was what I'd call being dominated.

You can hardly suggest that happened to Tendai or the boks thereafter. I recall the boks got pushed over twice in the 3rd test thats about it. Vickery got was probably worse than Matt Dunning got in 2007. It was as cringe worthy as rugby gets and something you hate to see top players go through (the fact he had Jones behind him and Mears by his side had a lot to do with it yet Vickery still gets the notoriety). Remember how everyone pre game talked the bok scrum weakness. Small comfort that I passed the opportunity for tickets to that test!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Poor officiating from what I remember.

Maybe but you can't deny one team was being marched several yards nearly every scrum in the first half. When that happens bad officiating or not the momentum is going to go the other way.
It was such a shame but lets be honest... McGeechan got his team very very wrong that day.

Yes (sorry can never spell his name without looking it up and can't be bothered) the Beast was going in on an angle or all day and with Mears by his side Vickery was done like a kipper when the ref didn't blow up. These things go for you occassionally.

I think its really great that Vickery didnt let that beasting get to him and is still playing at the top level today.

Gooseberry wrote:I think its really great that Vickery didnt let that beasting get to him and is still playing at the top level today.

Yupp, still cooking with gas.

fa0019 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

uncle_nigel wrote:He was dominated in the 2nd and 3rd test, but I haven't seen anything of the sort since. He also offers a lot around the pitch too.

Dominated?

So if he was "dominated" what happened to Vickery in the 1st test? Massacred?

I remember the test very well. The lions were very competitive in the 2nd but never really "dominated" and the 3rd can hardly be used as any yardstick.... the boks played their B/C side.

Poor officiating from what I remember.

Maybe but you can't deny one team was being marched several yards nearly every scrum in the first half. When that happens bad officiating or not the momentum is going to go the other way.
It was such a shame but lets be honest... McGeechan got his team very very wrong that day.

It seems that was often the case in the 2nd and 3rd test which I've already alluded to.

Gooseberry wrote:I think its really great that Vickery didnt let that beasting get to him and is still playing at the top level today.

I reckon that his world cup winner medal, 3 six nations medals, 2 European Cup medals, and 4 premiership medals probably provided adequate consolation!

Big wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:I think its really great that Vickery didnt let that beasting get to him and is still playing at the top level today.

I reckon that his world cup winner medal, 3 six nations medals, 2 European Cup medals, and 4 premiership medals probably provided adequate consolation!

The competitor in him mind... I bet it eats at him still.

Props rarely end in a blaze of glory. Those who go right to the hilt end up with 1 or 2 scars. Those who don't probably left prematurely.

There are 7 changes to this Bok side since Italy, I imagine SA are now seeing this as a development tour before flying back home to the drawing board? It seems a lot like what Jake White did.

uncle_nigel wrote:There are 7 changes to this Bok side since Italy, I imagine SA are now seeing this as a development tour before flying back home to the drawing board? It seems a lot like what Jake White did.

Albeit in 2006 when Jake White had his crisis meeting with SARU and almost got fired he was still able to say the following.... "This year I beat NZ, AUS and the world champions on their own turf".

Coetzee has 1 win in 5 vs. the big 5 and losses to Ireland, Italy and Argentina. He also had won the 3N in 2004. You could see the method to White's madness... Coetzee trains and selects via a magic 8 ball and his shaman.

To be honest I think many bokke will be hoping the springboks get hammered. Have their lancaster moment and bring in a genuine world class coach like England did last year.

World champs being England right? I got confused for a moment there. Jake White went through this in 2004 did he not? I was unaware of any crisis meeting in 2006.

uncle_nigel wrote:World champs being England right? I got confused for a moment there. Jake White went through this in 2004 did he not? I was unaware of any crisis meeting in 2006.

no, Jake White won the 3N in his first season.

He lost 7 tests in 2006 and almost lost his job.... but when he returned to SA for his crisis meeting (when everyone thought he'd be fired) to say you beat NZ, AUS and England in the same season and were a 3N title winner a few years before.... you still a decent hand of cards.

Fa, I respect your opinion and I'm quite flattered that you think Wales will win by a large margin, but...... Come on man this is Wales we're talking about! No way will we beat the Boks by 15! I very much doubt we'll get a win at all, no matter how poor the Boks team is. I reckon it'll be close. A few points in it perhaps. No way will Wales win by a comfortable margin. We've never done that (against tri nations opposition).

I can't decide if this will be a low-scoring game or a tryfest. Wales's defence, last season and this, has been poor, and if the Boks' defence isn't great either, it could be high scoring (though not necessarily high quality).

Griff wrote:Fa, I respect your opinion and I'm quite flattered that you think Wales will win by a large margin, but...... Come on man this is Wales we're talking about! No way will we beat the Boks by 15! I very much doubt we'll get a win at all, no matter how poor the Boks team is. I reckon it'll be close. A few points in it perhaps. No way will Wales win by a comfortable margin. We've never done that (against tri nations opposition).

We all know Wales' game plan can be combated and gets a little stale... but with front foot ball its very effective. Wales will get front foot ball against this side and they have no heavy ball carriers with the exception of Du Toit. Scrums may... may be an issue where SA can get a little bit of parity. Van Rensburg at 12 is a big lad but I don't think Biggar and Williams will lose too much sleep over him, they deal with that in training vs. Roberts every day.

In addition I see Moriarity making significant yards on Jantjies who does tend to have a revolving door tackling approach. Him and Faf are very worrisome in defence.

Make no mistake this is a very poor SA side and I don't think Wales will have a better chance to not just limp over the line but to beat a 3N side well.

Both teams are stuttering a bit. Will be an interesting game. Would like to see a Wales win but hope SA can sort themselves out too.

Either way Id say it will be good to watch.

Its unthinkable to consider that Wales won't beat this 2nd string development Boks side on tour who have just lost to italy and are falling to pieces.

That is until you consider Wales are playing like a 2nd string development side on tour who have just been pushed close by Japan.

Anything can happen and likely won't. I predict a dirge of a game with both sides desperate not to lose. My guess, Wales will win but only very just and the farce will continue, 3/4 wins in the Autumn, howler and his band of merry men will lap that up, so will the WRU. Gats must be quaking in his boots.

And form what I have seen tho autumn only 5 or 6 Welshmen would even mae the lions tour and I'd say only 1 would start for me.

Did anyone else cringe when they saw one of the (many) banners draped over the pitch before kickoff the last few weeks - the one that said 'this is not a stadium, this is our home'?

Gwlad wrote:Its unthinkable to consider that Wales won't beat this 2nd string development Boks side on tour who have just lost to italy and are falling to pieces.

That is until you consider Wales are playing like a 2nd string development side on tour who have just been pushed close by Japan.

Anything can happen and likely won't. I predict a dirge of a game with both sides desperate not to lose. My guess, Wales will win but only very just and the farce will continue, 3/4 wins in the Autumn, howler and his band of merry men will lap that up, so will the WRU. Gats must be quaking in his boots.

And form what I have seen tho autumn only 5 or 6 Welshmen would even mae the lions tour and I'd say only 1 would start for me.

And the 5+1 are?

AWJ, Faletau, Tipuric, Webb if fit, Half, Liam, North (just) - that's 7 and I'm being generous

Liam would start, Faletau if he shows a return to form.

Others who i think could push for a place but would have to do so very hard
Baldwin, Warburton, G Davies, JD2, Moriarty