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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

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TheMildlyFranticLlama
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RDW
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Hazel Sapling
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Who will win?

Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_lcap35%Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_rcap 35% 
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_lcap41%Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_rcap 41% 
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_lcap0%Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_rcap 0% 
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_lcap6%Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_rcap 6% 
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_lcap18%Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Vote_rcap 18% 
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Total Votes : 17
 
 
Poll closed

Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 08 Nov 2021, 9:28 am

Scotland vs South Africa
1pm, Saturday 13th November 2021
Amazon Prime
BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

Ref: Angus Gardner (Aus)

Not sure what to expect from Scotland as injuries could put a bit of pressure on the pack selections. Skinner was good against Australia and our alternatives are recalling a recalcitrant R Gray, starting a very green Hodgson or asking for 60 minutes from Cummings off an injury. Whilst Ashman got plaudits for his try and grew into the game, he also made some basic errors that can't be made against T1 sides and losing Turner would leave us choosing between him and a relatively undercooked McInally. In the backs, Steyn will likely come into the starters after a decent cameo but some analysis will be needed on how to create line-breaks against a strong rush defensive centre pairing of De Allende - Am.

For South Africa, the team is likely the same 23 as vs Wales, only possible changes could be Nkosi has sorted out his passport issues and will be back in the mix, and Fassi might come in for Willemse who failed an HIA. As for Bok tactics, it is very simple and there is nothing sinister or mysterious about it. If you look at their complete arsenal of attack, it is mauls, exploiting penalty advantage, counter, grubber kicks in the 22 and kick pass. The biggest weakness of the Boks is their predictable phase attack, they don't offload, they don't pass much, they don't really run angles to expose weak shoulders and they don't change the point of contact.

Scotland
Schoeman - McInally - Z Fagerson (Bhatti - Ashman - Kebble)
Skinner - Gilchrist (Hodgson)
Haining - M Fagerson - Ritchie (Watson)

Price - Russell (G Horne - Hastings)
Scott - Harris
DVDM - Hogg - McClean (Kinghorn)

South Africa
Nche - Mbonambi - Nyakane (Kitsoff - Marx - Koch)
Etzebeth - Mostert (De Jager)
Kolisi - Vermeulen - Smith (Wiese)

Jantjies - Jantjies (Reiach - Pollard)
De Allende - Am
Mapimpi - Le Roux - Kriel (Steyn)


Last edited by Hazel Sapling on Thu 11 Nov 2021, 1:19 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by bsando Mon 08 Nov 2021, 10:17 am

Gréât opportunity to beat the world champs! But considering how effective the direct running for the wallabies try was I think the Noks may revert to their traditional way of playing for this one.

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Post by BigGee Mon 08 Nov 2021, 10:22 am

Skinner looked like he might be injured, so maybe Cummings to start.

Horne may come under a little bit of pressure for his bench spot from Dobie for missing thst opportunity at the death.

This could be the game to go 6:2 on the bench as well. Maybe Bayliss and Crosby/Richardson to bench.

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Post by RDW Mon 08 Nov 2021, 10:24 am

I think we'll need to make a few tweaks as there will be a lot of sore bodies and a short turnover.

For me Mcinally comes straight back in for his experience and will be fresh. Not sure how bad Skinner's injury is but o think he should be replaced with Hodgeson or Cummings. Fagerson was fine against Wallabies but I'd be tempted to start Haining for extra physically and go forward, but ultimate I'd be happy with Fagerson too.

In the backs the only change for me is Steyn for Graham. Darcy is a buzzbomb but is also pretty fragile and really gets smashed every game. Steyn's extra physicality and ability in the air swings it.

I'm sure we'll be looking to play at high tempo but it needs to be controlled too, which the first 20 minute of the Wallaby game wasn't! Against SA you need to make the most of the possession you do have as you don't want them to dictate the tempo and grind you down when they do have the ball. Hopefully we have a few more lineout variations or attacking plays to mix things up and keep the Books guessing.

I think SA will ultimately prove too strong but it's a great opportunity to see how good we really are. It's just a shame we have such a short turnaround to be fully prepared for it.

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Post by Old Man Mon 08 Nov 2021, 11:08 am

Bok team is likely the same 23 as vs Wales, only possible changes could be Nkosi has sorted out his passport issues and will be back in the mix, and Fassi might come in for Willemse who failed an HIA.

As for Bok tactics, it is very simple and there is nothing sinister or mysterious about it.

Scrum for penalty advantage, if there is a penalty advantage run and see what you can get, if not, come back and use the penalty.

Line outs, not that many variations, if it is on, maul, if you get penalty advantage, run, see what happens, if it comes to naught, use penalty.

Breakdown, attacking breakdown, secure ball, if the number are in our favour outside our half attack, if not kick. In our half, kick.

Counter is on if there is space or inside opposition half, inside our half, only use counter if there is knock on advantage.

The Boks mainly play the numbers game, money ball, for example if they are in the opposition half, the attack forms dependant on how the defensive numbers stack up and where the space is.

If for example there is a space to exploit behind, a box kick is employed as the 50/50 nature of regathering possession is seen as a positive, and if you have enough opportunities in a match, those 50/50 situations will eventually pay off.

If the defensive numbers are found short, the two playmaker situation comes into play, which means Willie le Roux will be the go to man, in his absence Am likely to take that role.

SA relies on x factor to create magic moments, with Kolbe not there the Bok x factor is not present, so there won't be anything out of nothing.

If you look at their complete arsenal of attack, it is mauls, exploiting penalty advantage, counter, grubber kicks in the 22 and kick pass.

They don't offload a lot, and their phase play is straight up and down with only one or two "magic passes or offloads"

They pride themselves on stopping the opposition to run huge meters, they pride themselves where often the opponent will actually lose territory whilst attacking during phase play.

They pride themselves in not conceding tries. By memory in the 11 tests this year, only twice have they conceded more than one try in a match.

The biggest weakness of the Boks is their predictable phase attack, they don't offload, they don't pass much, they don't really run angles to expose weak shoulders and they don't change the point of contact.

To beat them you only need to manage their physicality mainly, be it at the scrum, maul, breakdown, tackle and defending their charging up the middle

You do that, and you win.

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Post by George Carlin Mon 08 Nov 2021, 4:47 pm

How do you feel the Boks have been playing so far, Old Man?

I didn't realise Cardiff was such a hoodoo for them.
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Post by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 08 Nov 2021, 5:11 pm

Im surprised Reinach didnt start against Wales & definitely should start against Scotland.
The difference he made when he came on was massive

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Post by BigGee Mon 08 Nov 2021, 5:12 pm

Yes am sure he will be starting on saturday

He is a very dangerous player!

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Post by Old Man Mon 08 Nov 2021, 5:13 pm

If you look at their overall season the haven't faired badly.

They have lost four matches.

Two of those were lost in the final minute when instead of managing the game, they failed to exit their half and conceded stupid penalties that lost them those matches.

Those were vs OZ and New Zealand, there were also a close loss to the Lions which can probably be ascribed to fitness as it was only their second test after not playing in 2020, they started the test well, went into the sheds ahead and then lost the plot in the second half.

The only poor match was the second test vs the Wallabies, which they lost by two scores, but they were completely outplayed in that test.

Considering three of those losses were in Australia, I suppose overall the results weren't too bad. Could just as well have been 8/10 instead of 6/10 prior to the Autumn internationals.

What is concerning though is the injuries to settled players such as PSDT, Kolbe, RG Snyman and now Faf.

There are a few new recruits that looked promising who were injured as well, so there has been limited opportunity to expose the new players.

What I find frustrating is that we play too conservatively, we have some very talented players but they play very much to the formula I describer above.

I was listening to Nick Mallett last night and he said out loud something I have been thinking for a while now.

The black players coming through are more talented and willing to play what they see in front of them, their skill levels surpass those of the white players when it comes to ball skills, stepping, etc.

And he would like to see them have more freedom within the game structure. It can only improve our attack and make it more unpredictable.

Cadiff has been bad, especially under Allister Coetzee, but we were just bad then, so our record took a nose dive in 2016, 2017.

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Post by Old Man Mon 08 Nov 2021, 5:17 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Im surprised Reinach didnt start against Wales & definitely should start against Scotland.
The difference he made when he came on was massive

I have been trying to understand Nienaber's reluctance to start Reinach for a while now, he is by far our most attacking scrumhalf, and yet he sits behind Faf and Jantjies.

There is a brother pair back in SA, Jordan Hendrickse halfback, playing in the style of Joost with a better boot and his brother Jaden Hendrickse, flyhalf, plays for the Lions.

Jordan got injured in his first test and is out for the year. His brother was a strong possibility for selection but then also got injured.

They can help with depth in the squad and should provide more options.

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Post by RDW Mon 08 Nov 2021, 9:02 pm

It staggers me that Jantjies is seen as an internal quality scrumhalf never mind the 2nd best in South Africa! He's had a few shockers this year. Reinach is such a dangerous player.

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Post by BigGee Tue 09 Nov 2021, 1:06 am

https://www.theoffsideline.com/scotland-v-south-africa-positive-prognosis-for-george-turner-could-create-selection-headache/

Looks like a clean bill of health on the injury front, even Turner looks like he could be in the frame.


Dalziel suggesting a horses for courses team for SA, which likely means beefing up the pack a bit. Could well be a 6:2 bench.


Richardson gets namechecked as well, so is he in the running?

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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 09 Nov 2021, 8:39 am

Wouldn't surprise me if they plan to namecheck Richardson to ruffle a few SA feathers considering no Scots fans (and I'm sure SA fans) even knew he was qualified or even in the running until GT announced the squad.

Bringing him in would be a bit harsh on Bayliss though who I thought looked like a man possessed for his 5 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if toonie keeps Ashman on the bench with McInally starting.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday!

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Post by RDW Tue 09 Nov 2021, 10:08 am

NeilyBroon wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if they plan to namecheck Richardson to ruffle a few SA feathers considering no Scots fans (and I'm sure SA fans) even knew he was qualified or even in the running until GT announced the squad.

Bringing him in would be a bit harsh on Bayliss though who I thought looked like a man possessed for his 5 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if toonie keeps Ashman on the bench with McInally starting.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday!

Nelly's back!

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Post by Old Man Tue 09 Nov 2021, 10:17 am

Now if we can slip a couple of South African Rands (OK, will need to be a lot) into the pockets of WP Nel, Richardson, Schoeman, VDM and Steyn, we could play a 20v10 match.

Hug

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Post by NeilyBroon Tue 09 Nov 2021, 10:48 am

RDW wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if they plan to namecheck Richardson to ruffle a few SA feathers considering no Scots fans (and I'm sure SA fans) even knew he was qualified or even in the running until GT announced the squad.

Bringing him in would be a bit harsh on Bayliss though who I thought looked like a man possessed for his 5 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if toonie keeps Ashman on the bench with McInally starting.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday!

Nelly's back!

Good to be back RDW!

Old man tbh I think Schoe would just accept biltong as payment (though that's probably worth 25million Rand right?).

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Post by Old Man Tue 09 Nov 2021, 10:55 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if they plan to namecheck Richardson to ruffle a few SA feathers considering no Scots fans (and I'm sure SA fans) even knew he was qualified or even in the running until GT announced the squad.

Bringing him in would be a bit harsh on Bayliss though who I thought looked like a man possessed for his 5 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if toonie keeps Ashman on the bench with McInally starting.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday!

Nelly's back!

Good to be back RDW!

Old man tbh I think Schoe would just accept biltong as payment (though that's probably worth 25million Rand right?).

Of course, didn't consider biltong, it is more valuable than bitcoin.

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Post by RDW Tue 09 Nov 2021, 11:04 am

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:Wouldn't surprise me if they plan to namecheck Richardson to ruffle a few SA feathers considering no Scots fans (and I'm sure SA fans) even knew he was qualified or even in the running until GT announced the squad.

Bringing him in would be a bit harsh on Bayliss though who I thought looked like a man possessed for his 5 minutes. I wouldn't be surprised if toonie keeps Ashman on the bench with McInally starting.

Either way, looking forward to Saturday!

Nelly's back!

Good to be back RDW!

Old man tbh I think Schoe would just accept biltong as payment (though that's probably worth 25million Rand right?).

Come say hi on the blue badge section Nelly - you've been missed!

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Post by Hazel Sapling Tue 09 Nov 2021, 11:40 am

South Africa team announced, edited above.

Le Roux comes in for Willemse, a major upgrade. Never understood what Willemse is good at. Not watched him enough though the few times I have, I thought he was lucky to be a club player.

Jantjies for Pollard is quite good for us. It might open up South Africa's attack a bit more but it should allows us to target Jantjies with an inside winger and force De Allende to step in creating space outside.  

Mostert for De Jager just seems like a natural rotation.


Last edited by Hazel Sapling on Tue 09 Nov 2021, 12:07 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Cleaning up language)

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Post by Old Man Tue 09 Nov 2021, 11:52 am

I would suggest Scotland must exploit the first half, with the two Jantjies at 9 and 10 there is opportunity to exploit our defensive weakness there.

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Post by bsando Tue 09 Nov 2021, 12:32 pm

Old Man wrote:I would suggest Scotland must exploit the first half, with the two Jantjies at 9 and 10 there is opportunity to exploit our defensive weakness there.

More Russell offloads could be the go. Tbh, who knows how things will pan out. Good Boks side that, big abrasive pack. Gonna be a big step up physically for Scotland.

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Post by RDW Tue 09 Nov 2021, 8:28 pm

That halfback pairing is definitely the weakest part of the Bok team, and the 10 Jantjies is not a good goal kicker. Just got the other 21 players to worry about now...!

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Post by sensisball Tue 09 Nov 2021, 10:22 pm

I agree that Jantjies has a poor record as a goal kicker. However in one of the Lions tests (cannot remember if it was 2nd or 3rd) he came on at ten and took over the goal kicking even though Pollard had moved onto the wing (maybe injured?) and I think he calmly kicked two out of two attempts. I was really impressed and you could almost see him think i've finally earnt my spurs here.
So it will be interesting to see which version of the player turns up on Saturday.

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Post by RDW Wed 10 Nov 2021, 7:57 am

sensisball wrote:I agree that Jantjies has a poor record as a goal kicker. However in one of the Lions tests (cannot remember if it was 2nd or 3rd) he came on at ten and took over the goal kicking even though Pollard had moved onto the wing (maybe injured?) and I think he calmly kicked two out of two attempts. I was really impressed and you could almost see him think i've finally earnt my spurs here.
So it will be interesting to see which version of the player turns up on Saturday.

I've just looked on ultimate rugby and I don't think he took any kicks against the Lions! Steyne famously took over from Pollard in the 3rd test.

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Post by RDW Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:25 am

RDW wrote:
sensisball wrote:I agree that Jantjies has a poor record as a goal kicker. However in one of the Lions tests (cannot remember if it was 2nd or 3rd) he came on at ten and took over the goal kicking even though Pollard had moved onto the wing (maybe injured?) and I think he calmly kicked two out of two attempts. I was really impressed and you could almost see him think i've finally earnt my spurs here.
So it will be interesting to see which version of the player turns up on Saturday.

I've just looked on ultimate rugby and I don't think he took any kicks against the Lions! Steyne famously took over from Pollard in the 3rd test.

Maybe the last 5 minutes of the last NZ game where he dropped a goal and kicked a late pen?

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Post by Old Man Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:41 am

Jantjies scored two penalties and a drop goal in the lat test vs NZ

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Post by sensisball Wed 10 Nov 2021, 10:41 am

RDW and Old Man: Thanks for identifying the game that Jantjies kicked the late goals in. I have clearly not being paying enough attention to the numerous Bok's matches I have watched this year!

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Post by tigertattie Wed 10 Nov 2021, 11:22 am

I'm really happy to see that Steyn hasn't been picked to start for SA. I think his rugby brain would have identified the gaping holes in the Scottish backfield and he'd have punted the ball there and turned us on more than one occasion.

We'll need to handle the bokke brutality to have a chance in this. I can see Toonie telling the boys to empty the tanks in this one and then they can have the day off against Japan and we'll send the fringe players out against them.
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Post by BigGee Wed 10 Nov 2021, 11:41 am

tigertattie wrote:I'm really happy to see that Steyn hasn't been picked to start for SA. I think his rugby brain would have identified the gaping holes in the Scottish backfield and he'd have punted the ball there and turned us on more than one occasion.

We'll need to handle the bokke brutality to have a chance in this. I can see Toonie telling the boys to empty the tanks in this one and then they can have the day off against Japan and we'll send the fringe players out against them.


I think Le Roux has a pretty good rugby brain as well and he will return the ball very well if we kick loosely as well.

Not so sure Steyn is an 80 minute player these days, but you can expect him to make an impact, he certainly did last weekend!

We certainly can and should rotate some players in for the Japan game, but we need to go full guns for this one!

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 10 Nov 2021, 12:18 pm

I assume Fagerson didn't get cited?

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Post by tigertattie Wed 10 Nov 2021, 1:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume Fagerson didn't get cited?

Not a peep heard. I'm assuming if he was going to be cited he would have by now.

I'm very surprised that he hasn't been as his fingers were, seemingly, very close to Hoopers eyes
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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 10 Nov 2021, 1:36 pm

Think the citing panel has gone on holiday during most of covid and bubble issues etc. Not just for this incident.

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed 10 Nov 2021, 2:03 pm

tigertattie wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume Fagerson didn't get cited?

Not a peep heard. I'm assuming if he was going to be cited he would have by now.

I'm very surprised that he hasn't been as his fingers were, seemingly, very close to Hoopers eyes

It looked over the mouth. I thought the Aussie was going to get a red and Zander a yellow. Probably a better spectacle the way it was ref'd.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 10 Nov 2021, 2:17 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume Fagerson didn't get cited?

Not a peep heard. I'm assuming if he was going to be cited he would have by now.

I'm very surprised that he hasn't been as his fingers were, seemingly, very close to Hoopers eyes

It looked over the mouth. I thought the Aussie was going to get a red and Zander a yellow. Probably a better spectacle the way it was ref'd.

You just never know these days facial contact yes, contact to eyes no.

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Post by tigertattie Wed 10 Nov 2021, 6:49 pm

Someone would need to find the footage but when I saw it it looked very very close to hoopers eyes and really worried that a red was going to be shown.

It was while the yellow card incident was being looked at and the TMO may have missed it. The tv footage director saw it though and stuck a slow Mo of it on screen while poite and Co were chatting
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Post by tigertattie Wed 10 Nov 2021, 6:56 pm

Ouch. Just watched reporting Scotland and big Gav comes out with “we have the best stand off in world rugby and I’m not taking about Adam Hastings”

That’s got to be hard for Adam to hear. Aye thanks very much dad. Yer getting a pair of socks for Christmas now.
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by RDW Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:23 pm

No idea how much truth is in it but apparently Tuipolotu has been running at 12 at training and Kinghorn on the wing.

Same source (Thistle podcast) then said Tuipolotu pulled up at training and Matt Scott (12) is now in line at 12.

I understand the rationale behind a more physical 12. I also understand not picking Graham against the Boks. I'm not sure if pick Kinghorn to replace him though!

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by jimbopip Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:43 pm

So, Saturday...World Champions, Vanquishers of The Lions ( a title they share with Gatland) and our AI series in the balance.

We beat Tonga, but then so will everyone.
We beat the Criminals...but that game could easily have gone either way. massive respect to Michael Hooper who took Mr Poitre up on his offer and visited the ref's room after the game...with a gift/souvenir for his last international match and a couple of tinnies of lager.
We will beat japan as they are woefully out of sorts.
If we beat the Boks it will be a massively successful autumn for us. If we lose then it is two easy wins and one scrappy win against the odds. we'll all be wearing sackcloth and ashes. Obviously FES will have silken sacks and the ashes of his cremated hunting cockerpoos.

Japan will be the game to look at youngsters; Ashman, Bayliss, Richardson, Titman and Dobbie should all start.

Team v Boks
Props The four from Saturday will be there again. Shoe and Ragnar have been "radge" as they say in Wester Hailes. Bhati and Kebble have been solid when they have come on, although they may have to be more than solid against the Boks.
Hooker Turner/Rambo. If they are both fit. Start with Turner (a) he is better around the field and we really want to play as fast as we did on Saturday. I don't think the Boks will want to play at that pace and (b) Rambo will be more of a help in the scrum for our weaker prop pairing.
second row I'll say this just once: Gilchrist must start. Skinner looked very good until he was injured. Deja vu? Is Hodgson too inexperienced? Is Cummings fit enough to play? I think Cummings starts and Hodgson benches.
Back row. Mbawza and Hamish but who is in the middle? Toonie obviously believes Matt F is the 8 he wants. I think Fagerson starts and we have Haining/Skinner/Crosby on the bench. possibly two of them if it's a 6-2 split.
Half backs Aldi and Dancer then Hornito and Haircut....or maybe not.
Back Three Duhan-Hogg-Seaman
6-2 bench with Hodgson, Haining, Crosby.

centres Sam Johnson had a very good game on Saturday. Chris Harris not so much. My worry is Johnson runs straight into De Allende and Harris has to try and outwit Am on his own.
One way to negate De Allende, who is the Boks defensive leader a la G-Dog, is to have someone run straight into him off first phase ball and then recycle quick ball while he's still at the bottom of a ruck. if it's your 12 who runs into De Allende then we need a 13 who has an outside break and can distribute well. I can't help thinking that Shona, Seaman and Not A Pony all have a slight edge on Harris there. But, but, but...games are won by defences and Harris is possibly the best defensive 13 in the northern hemisphere.

Some people say that if our pack front up and gain parity we'll win...I think if we play the game at the cocaine on your cornflakes tempo that both sides played at on Saturday then the Boks will fall off the pace and their defence will unravel. However, if the ref tolerates water breaks very three minutes, boots being tied at every lineout, more injury stoppages than the Normandy landings then the Boks will control the tempo of the game. And win.

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by jimbopip Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:56 pm

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fsport%2Frugby-union%2F59233294%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3j0Ev5lOL1SO0eJm5SkjahqIKKbsKEbsBjRHREBdXAIJyNMNhQeSRjBcA&h=AT3qXX-7z_pY4SQA1bK7-QELsFbxV1zfwdlgG5ZGEeQv0DsW2X1c-a2r1leonF_NEaQAtSEtdEVH1EDY0TYt0KLms0YFp5R6VXTePA5F61DygLL7wt_1xlf1FEr56Ac0AGqxFseqiSTstp7MbnzB&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT0pqzMi9RuzWmacQJa30GdhnHIvHHyyPQaXu0tfYQg3764tAmbcMaLyogt8LoRdMwYu8otDC1wwdvatejGfU1r5iWGF_hQvj9yd75eJBgtUcRXA9EKPmrAB3NJtJUjKRNr_kUTtqHjGJx6DbCL6rNiMHhaXt0nEOahewLJKWV9b68aGcSWZLaGVtDve0eWupEHNzErEEm8DWbyNbDcgeTtG

Well worth a read.

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by Old Man Wed 10 Nov 2021, 8:56 pm

Some people say that if our pack front up and gain parity we'll win...I think if we play the game at the cocaine on your cornflakes tempo that both sides played at on Saturday then the Boks will fall off the pace and their defence will unravel. However, if the ref tolerates water breaks very three minutes, boots being tied at every lineout, more injury stoppages than the Normandy landings then the Boks will control the tempo of the game. And win.

Hmmm, heard that at least a million times this year

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by tigertattie Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:02 pm

SA do employ every trick in the book to dictate the pace of the game.

And yes, every team does it, SA are just better at it (other than the blackness maybe)
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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by RDW Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:08 pm

Jimbo Laugh

Excellent post, although it's been proven that playing at pace against the Boks is helpful but not a guarantee to success. We need to be absolutely on it across all facets of play.

Given the much vaunted bomb squad I wonder if he'll mix up the props a bit - i.e. start Bhatti and tell him just to survive for 45 minutes then bring on the Schoe.

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by sensisball Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:17 pm

Well that would be one way of showing that wing is one back position that Blarehorn shouldn't play again. That just leaves fly half, full back and centre ( if Toonie is to be believed) to try him out in to see of he is the new Messiah.

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by BigGee Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:18 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59233294


The story of Kyle Steyn and his father's involvement in the Mandela story has been told before but probably not quite as eloquently as Tom English has done here. Sometimes it takes a wordsmith to really bring it out in a form that you can believe in.

That picture of young Kyle shaking Mandela's hand, what a moment and you just do wonder what he feels about that now? Then again, it may have been quite normal for him!

For myself, I would have been start struck. I had the privilege of seeing and hearing Mandela speak in 1990 at Wembley stadium when he made his first Uk visit following his release from prison. It was the night before i started my nursing career and one that I will never forget, I truly thought I was a part of history that night.

Kyle, as his father alludes to, admirably just wants to concentrate on his rugby and seems happy to make his own history.

I also love how his South African father will support his son playing for a different country, which I suppose illustrates the complex nature of nationality and allegiance that occupies a lot of space on these boards and elsewhere.

I don't suppose he will be the first father to have been placed in this position and I imagine that most, if not all, will chose the way that Rory has reacted to this dilemma.


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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by BigGee Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:33 pm

Sorry Jimbo, did not realise that complex link to the book of face took us to the same place.

It is a well written article that a student of the written word, such as yourself, would appreciate.

The back story itself is incredible without any embellishment.


People like myself (and probably you) who became politically aware in the 1980s will remember the anti apartheid movement, Mandela's release and subsequent rise to President, as a metaphor what what may be possible in the world, that once seemed unreachable.

A lot has changed since then and South Africa has not become a utopia overnight or will do any time soon. nor have our own politics this country given us a lot to be proud about in the interim period.

I still prefer to be an optimist however, having seen what can be achieved.


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Post by jimbopip Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:34 pm

Old Man wrote:Some people say that if our pack front up and gain parity we'll win...I think if we play the game at the cocaine on your cornflakes tempo that both sides played at on Saturday then the Boks will fall off the pace and their defence will unravel. However, if the ref tolerates water breaks very three minutes, boots being tied at every lineout, more injury stoppages than the Normandy landings then the Boks will control the tempo of the game. And win.

Hmmm, heard that at least a million times this year

It's a bit like people saying Alexander Boris De Pfeffer Johnson is a lying sack of self obsessed Poopie. The reason you've heard it millions of times is because millions of people can see that it is self evidently true.

On a more serious note....I'm hearing that at the Scotland training camp Shona was running out at 12. Then he was "rested", slight strain, and Matt Scott 12 took over at...12.

I'm not 100% certain but I believe that after seeing what happened to the Tongan Thor the Boks refused to travel to Luvvietoon unless they received assurances that Johnson would not be playing.

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Post by BigGee Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:38 pm

If I remember correctly. Matt Scott had a very good game against the Boks when we ran them close down south a few years back.

I have a feeling that we then got murdered in the second test, but I will choose to leave that as a more hazy memory!

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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by jimbopip Wed 10 Nov 2021, 9:57 pm

There are a few things Matt Scott is very good at. Unfortunately, being Alex Dunbar was not one of them. This probably explains why very few people west of Corstorphine could ever see him as an international 12.

In my rather addled brain this is what I think the Boks have wet dreams about; playing against sides with a big, strong direct running 12 and a defensively sound but uncreative 13 outside him. This allows De Allende to play high speed Sumo, which he is utterly brilliant at, while Am shoots out of the line like a Tory backbencher looking for a non-executive directorship to hit the 13 just as the ball arrives thereby making the opposition back three as superfluous as Pritti Patel's conscience.

There is a good argument for Toonie gong Haircut-Dancer at 10-12, or 12-10 even. It would be one way to move the ball beyond Allende. However, it still puts a lot of trust in Harris' attacking nous.


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Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021 Empty Re: Scotland vs South Africa, 13th November 2021

Post by Highland Shaun Thu 11 Nov 2021, 12:08 am

Jimbo, I would say that 3 wins from 4 would definitely be seen as a positive autumn, especially if you take into account that we are strengthening our squad/strength in depth, ahead of the world cup.

I heard (via YouTuber @RugbyAnalyst) that Japan were awful on Saturday, especially their attempts at putting the ball into touch but I also noted that they ran Australia very close just last week and surely won't be as poor as they were v Ireland, for a long time!

Anyway, looking forward to seeing the team announcement because it will be very tough to drop anyone from last week :O.

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Post by RDW Thu 11 Nov 2021, 1:26 am

"My wife's dad was a very proud Scot and I said to him one day when Kyle was playing, 'You know Pa, if he takes this forward, he might play for Scotland and he said, 'Och, no, he doesn't want to play for Scotland'.

"They weren't very good at the time. They are now. One of the great regrets my wife and I have is he never saw his grandson play at Murrayfield. My own dad didn't see him either. It would have been a source of tremendous pride for them.

"For the family, it's an unmitigated pleasure to watch him. My blood is green, but you always support your son. We're all Scotland fans now."

Love this

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