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Scotland v Japan Saturday 20th November 2021

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demosthenes
Old Man
bsando
George Carlin
Highland Shaun
Anglobraveheart
tigertattie
Tramptastic
Collapse2005
R!skysports
Hazel Sapling
jimbopip
RDW
BigGee
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Post by BigGee Mon 15 Nov 2021, 1:07 am

Scotland v Japan
Saturday 20th November 2021

BT Murrayfield Stadium
Edinburgh

KO 13.00

Live on Amazon Prime


Well Scotland came back down to earth with a bit of a bump following our lesson from the Boks on saturday! Not much time to feel sorry for ourselves though and we quickly move on to the last game in the series against Japan, who in case anyone has forgotten, knocked us out of the world cup the last time we meet!

So lets not pretend that this one is going to be a gimme, despite the fact that the Japensese got well beaten by the Irish (who they also beat in Japan at the WC). The Japanese will be better for having had a tough game and will definitely see this as a scalp they can take.

So what kind of team do we put out for this game? Twist or stick?

I think personally that he has to mix it up a bit this week. A few players are three games in now, Price and Ritchie amongst them and a few in the squad are putting in a good case for some more game time. It would have been an easier call had we won the game against the Boks, but there is now a lot more imperative to win this game and we can't chuck to callow a team out there. It may be a question of trying some new starting combos and having our version of the bomb squad on the bench to be brought on later.

So maybe something like this:

1. Schoeman - I think he will start again as they will want him to build up his international experience prior to the 6N
2. McInally
3. Fagerson
4. Cummings - assuming he is fit and ready to go
5. Gilchrist
6. Bayliss - He deserves a start and Ritchie deserves a rest
7. Richardson - We need to try other understudies to Mish, who is maybe not completely fit himself
8. Haining
9. Price - a tricky one as he probably needs a rest as well, but not sure GH is really a starting option
10. Hastings - has not been called on to do much so far and deserves his chance
11. DVDM
12. Johnson - Scott did not make a compelling case to take over
13.Jones - would really like to see him have a start
14. Steyn - deserves his chance
15. Hogg


Subs:

Bhatti - though Hislop might be worth a shout
Turner - assuming he is fit, Ashman if not
Keeble - needs more time in the saddle at TH
Skinner - though I would like another look at Sykes
Crosbie
Dobie - needs a decent chunk of the second half this time.
Russell
Graham




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Post by BigGee Mon 15 Nov 2021, 1:09 am

I am heading up north for this one.

Can't wait to get back into a full Murrayfield again!

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Post by RDW Mon 15 Nov 2021, 1:44 am

I don't think it would be wise to go full tombola for this, but I do think we can rotate in some experienced players and rely on them to get the job done.

For me:

1 Schoeman
2 McInally
3 Kebble
4 Gilchrist
5 Cummings
6 Bayliss
7 Waton
8 Haining

9 Horne
10 Hastings
11 McLean (this type of game is ready made for him)
12 Johnson
13 Harris
14 Steyn
15 Hogg

Subs - Bhattie, Turner, Fagerson, Hodgeson, Richardson, Price, Russell, Any of the 13s

I think 7 and 13 is a position we need to start developing a bit more as for a long time it's been the same players playing most games.

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Post by jimbopip Mon 15 Nov 2021, 9:44 am

OK guys, this isn't good enough. No. Not at all.
Here's Gee single handedly fighting off the Pandemic, holding the NHS together through sheer will power AND he's got to do the match thread. steam

Meanwhile GC is eating grapes, drinking flat Lucozade and propositioning dusky nurses in the sunny emirates.
Not good enough.

I don't think too many who started against the Boks will start on Saturday. This will be a game to look at players before the cauldron of despair and elation that is the Six Nations.
1 Bhatti/Schoeman
2 Cherry/Ashman
3 Kebble/Ragnar
4 Hodgson
5 Cummings/BigBad
6 Bayliss
7 Richardson
8 Haining/Crosbie

9 Horne/Dobie
10 Hastings/Thomson
11 McLean (this type of game is ready made for him)
12 Shona
13 Seaman/Harris
14 Darcy
15 Blarehorn




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Post by Hazel Sapling Mon 15 Nov 2021, 10:38 am

Think there will be several changes. Hislop was injured in his last Wasps game though not sure how bad it was. H Jones has barely been playing for Quins. May mean they have to miss out.

Bhatti - Ashman - Kebble (Schoeman - Turner - McCallum)
Cummings - Gilchrist (Skinner)
Bayliss - M Fagerson - Watson (Richardson)

G Horne - Hastings (Dobie - Thompson)
S Johnson - Shona
VDM - Hogg - Steyn (McLean)

If Jones is fit, he can bench. Think Hogg or Ritchie has to play otherwise I am not sure who is captain. Z Fagerson and Ritchie could do with breaks whilst Lions Harris, Russell and Price can have a quiet week to allow understudies a chance.

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Post by R!skysports Mon 15 Nov 2021, 3:21 pm

I am going to put it out there. I think Hogg should be dropped

He can not catch a ball, and for the last few games, can not even pass. He was throwing the ball all over the place

He has never been great with his hands (or passes), but recently he seems to have fallen off a cliff and seems to have almost no hand subtilty at all


I know he won't be dropped, but he (IMO) was our worst player last weekend and needs to have a chance to re-assess

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Post by BigGee Mon 15 Nov 2021, 3:53 pm

R!skysports wrote:I am going to put it out there. I  think Hogg should be dropped

He can not catch a ball, and for the last few games, can not even pass. He was throwing the ball all over the place

He has never been great with his hands (or passes), but recently he seems to have fallen off a cliff and seems to have almost no hand subtilty at all


I know he won't be dropped, but he (IMO) was our worst player last weekend and needs to have a chance to re-assess


There is a case for that, but who would you play at FB

Blairhorn is equally flaky.

Huw Jones looked decent last year - but woefully short of game time this season, though he did play 80 mins for quins last weekend.

Graham - Probably a bit weak under the high ball as well.


In the absence of anyone really putting up their hand, I expect Hogg will start. I also think the polemic that would be unleashed by dropping him would just disrupt the whole week and might be counter productive to the team as a whole.

If Hogg is to be be moved on, the first step will be to quietly remove him as captain prior to the 6N, he will be a lot easier to drop then.

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Post by jimbopip Mon 15 Nov 2021, 3:58 pm

Titman can play full back. This would allow Duhan and ADHD Kid to play wings and then Shona and Seaman at 12 & 13.

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Post by Collapse2005 Mon 15 Nov 2021, 4:33 pm

Nice opportunity for Scotland to exact revenge on Japan for the world cup. Expecting a fairly comfortable Scotland win.

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Post by Tramptastic Mon 15 Nov 2021, 4:36 pm

I dunno if Hogg was that bad or if the Bok kicking strategy is just excellent. The same questions arose during the lions tour after the 1st two tests, this idea that Hogg is terrible under the high ball. Our welsh comrades were yelling for Williams who proudly boasted he was the best fullback under the high ball and subsequently, in the 3rd test, he got mullered and dropped just about everything.

So a few conclusions from this:

1) The Bok kicking plan involves dropping bombs that are far enough for the defending fullback to claim but short enough for the fullback to have to sprint out of position to claim it. This results in incredibly difficult bombs to defuse as the fullback is working harder, focusing on timing of jumping, positioning, pace, onrushing defence, his own blockers etc. Hogg got mullered on the lions tour with it, Williams got wrecked in the 3rd test, Hogg got handed his own @rse at the weekend. This leads to point 2;

2) Hogg isnt terrible under the high ball. He isn't, if he was terrible he wouldnt have so many counter attacking tries under his belt because he wouldnt have caught anything in the 1st place.

3) Who do we even replace him with? Blairhorn is flakey, Hastings is barely qualified at 10 let alone fullback, Graham is a less good Hogg, Mclean is unproven and was out of place for 2 of the boks tries, Shug canni get a game

4) The best way to defuse the boks kicking game is to make sure they dont have a ball to kick away. We turned over so much possession under zero pressure it was equivalent to Odysseus spitting in the poseidons eye and yelling "suck it gods, i'll be just fine without you". whatever happened at our set piece directly contributed to the boks being able to execute an astute tactical kicking game.

We lost against the world champions, it should have been closer but an inability to retain possession in the correct parts of the field resulted in an under pressure back 3, significant territorial losses and bok tries from scottish errors.

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Post by tigertattie Mon 15 Nov 2021, 6:31 pm

Hogg was one of the few players who I think could be classed as “trying” last weekend.

I think he dropped one high ball and that was with the low sun right in he apple pies.

If anyone needs dropped its Russell. He was utterly honking. But wouldn’t you rather give him a shot a redemption? He’s a confidence player.

If we’d played really well and lost then this game would see wholesale changes to rest boys but I think Toonie may need to go mostly unchanged now to give the players a chance to show what they can do.

There may be some tinkering but that’s about it
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Post by jimbopip Mon 15 Nov 2021, 6:45 pm

Tramptastic wrote:I dunno if Hogg was that bad or if the Bok kicking strategy is just excellent. The same questions arose during the lions tour after the 1st two tests, this idea that Hogg is terrible under the high ball. Our welsh comrades were yelling for Williams who proudly boasted he was the best fullback under the high ball and subsequently, in the 3rd test, he got mullered and dropped just about everything.

So a few conclusions from this:

1) The Bok kicking plan involves dropping bombs that are far enough for the defending fullback to claim but short enough for the fullback to have to sprint out of position to claim it. This results in incredibly difficult bombs to defuse as the fullback is working harder, focusing on timing of jumping, positioning, pace, onrushing defence, his own blockers etc. Hogg got mullered on the lions tour with it, Williams got wrecked in the 3rd test, Hogg got handed his own @rse at the weekend. This leads to point 2;

2) Hogg isnt terrible under the high ball. He isn't, if he was terrible he wouldnt have so many counter attacking tries under his belt because he wouldnt have caught anything in the 1st place.

3) Who do we even replace him with? Blairhorn is flakey, Hastings is barely qualified at 10 let alone fullback, Graham is a less good Hogg, Mclean is unproven and was out of place for 2 of the boks tries, Shug canni get a game

4) The best way to defuse the boks kicking game is to make sure they dont have a ball to kick away. We turned over so much possession under zero pressure it was equivalent to Odysseus spitting in the poseidons eye and yelling "suck it gods, i'll be just fine without you". whatever happened at our set piece directly contributed to the boks being able to execute an astute tactical kicking game.

We lost against the world champions, it should have been closer but an inability to retain possession in the correct parts of the field resulted in an under pressure back 3, significant territorial losses and bok tries from scottish errors.

Some good points here Tramptastic. Don't agree with them all though.
Scotland defend narrow and if the winger gets caught with a 2 on 1 then that's a systems fault more often than not. Scotland tend to defend narrow and drift/scramble across; Harris is excellent at managing this which is one of the big advantages he brings over Huw Jones. Both the tries scored in Titman's corner were from turnover ball which is difficult to defend as the line hasn't had time to get back in shape. The Boks bring Willie Le Roux into first rceiver if they get quick turnover ball. He is a double threat as he has pace to attack a la Hogg or he can distribute like a decent 10 (not a Blarehorn 10). The running threat means that the defenders closest to the breakdown get drawn to him thus shortening the line and leaving the winger exposed. The fact that they targeted the debutant just shows how smart they are. I think Toonie should stick with Titman as he has the potential to be a special player (not in a Phil Goodgodman way).

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Post by jimbopip Mon 15 Nov 2021, 7:16 pm

It may sound unsporting, BUT....

the highlight of the weekend for me was the ref giving Sexton a talking to along the lines of, "I don't tell you how to organize your team: you don't tell me how to organize my officials. Got it?" As the ref turned to give the mark for the scrum the All Blacks hooker said to him, "Frak me, he's a mouthy Kumquat isn't he sir."
Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh clap clap clap

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Post by Anglobraveheart Mon 15 Nov 2021, 10:21 pm

Given that the players based outside of Scotland missed the first AI fixture, I would hope that we will get to see as many of them as possible in the last game. With this in mind, and a need for continuity/partnerships, I think that we should go for:
Shoeman/Mcinally/Kebble (Bhatti/Turner/Fagerson)
Hodgson/Skinner (Sykes)
Crosbie/Haining/Watson (Bayliss)
Horne (Dobie)
Russell (Thompson)
VdM
Johnson
Jones
Steyn (Mclean)
Hogg

It would have been good to have Gray junior, Sutherland, Brown, Darge and Redpath as options, but it's not to be.
I think Gilchrist, Price and Harris need a rest.

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Post by BigGee Mon 15 Nov 2021, 10:37 pm

I suspect that is probably a few to many changes for this game, which while we do need to experiment a little bit. we also very much need to win.

Japan don't look the same team as played in the home WC, but we would be mad to underestimate them to much.

They did beat us last time out remember!

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Post by RDW Mon 15 Nov 2021, 10:39 pm

Japan had a fairly underwhelming 38-25 win over Portugal, who are very much in the minnow category.

We certainly shouldn't underestimate them, but I also think we really should be targeting a healthy win over them - it's not the same Japan that we faced in the WC.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Mon 15 Nov 2021, 11:14 pm

BigGee wrote:I suspect that is probably a few to many changes for this game, which while we do need to experiment a little bit. we also very much need to win.

Japan don't look the same team as played in the home WC, but we would be mad to underestimate them to much.

They did beat us last time out remember!
I was just trying to find some workable combos Gee. I forgot to add that maybe Ritchie needs a rest too, but maybe there is also a debate around allowing those that played last week the opportunity to redeem themselves. Which I also understand. And on reflection now, maybe it would also be the chance to give those that aydin years fixture 2 years ago, the opportunity yo get one over on the opposition to make amends. I recall Ritchie in particular being very fired up.
So maybe keep first choice front and back rows, but keep the second rows of Hodgson, Skinner and Sykes on the bench?
If we are hoping to stick with Price, Russell, Johnson and Harris, it would be good to have Jones to vote on and prove a point, with VdM, Hogg and any one of Graham/McLean/Steyn making ip the back 3.
Who ever plays, we need to be aiming to smash the opposition.

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Post by Highland Shaun Mon 15 Nov 2021, 11:53 pm

Looking forward to the team announcement for this Smile, hopefully it's a strong a team as is possible.

Did we see enough from Saturday to be confident Smile?

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Post by BigGee Tue 16 Nov 2021, 12:18 am

Anglobraveheart wrote:
BigGee wrote:I suspect that is probably a few to many changes for this game, which while we do need to experiment a little bit. we also very much need to win.

Japan don't look the same team as played in the home WC, but we would be mad to underestimate them to much.

They did beat us last time out remember!
I was just trying to find some workable combos Gee. I forgot to add that maybe Ritchie needs a rest too, but maybe there is also a debate around allowing those that played last week the opportunity to redeem themselves. Which I also understand. And on reflection now, maybe it would also be the chance to give those that aydin years fixture 2 years ago, the opportunity yo get one over on the opposition to make amends. I recall Ritchie in particular being very fired up.
So maybe keep first choice front and back rows, but keep the second rows of Hodgson, Skinner and Sykes on the bench?
If we are hoping to stick with Price, Russell, Johnson and Harris, it would be good to have Jones to vote on and prove a point, with VdM, Hogg and any one of Graham/McLean/Steyn making ip the back 3.
Who ever plays, we need to be aiming to smash the opposition.

The players that should be sitting this one out are the ones who have played all three games so far, or at least big chunks of them.

Ritchie may well come into that category and in Baylis, who had a decent debut and looks ready for more as a pretty direct replacement at 6.

Is Watson fit or not is another questions? If there is any doubt about that, he should be sitting this one out as well. Crosby could go again or if i am honest, I would probably like to see Richardson.

Ali Price has done the larger part of all three games but do we risk George Horne starting? The braver selection would be to let Dobie start and have Price on the bench.

Gilchrist has played all three games so far and I don't think has even been subbed. Skinner had the better game of the two locks last weekend I think and Cummings should be back for this one.

Zander and the Showman, trouble is we drop off a lot after these two. Will Keeble improve with more time in the saddle at TH?


Goodness knows where Toonie will go with this one, I would like to see a few changes, but I suspect the team will look largely similar to last week.


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Post by George Carlin Tue 16 Nov 2021, 6:27 am

jimbopip wrote:OK guys, this isn't good enough. No. Not at all.
Here's Gee single handedly fighting off the Pandemic, holding the NHS together through sheer will power AND he's got to do the match thread. steam

Scotland v Japan Saturday 20th November 2021 1347041234 Nearly back to full typing fitness Gee. Thanks for the match thread.
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Post by George Carlin Tue 16 Nov 2021, 6:35 am

Let's not forget that the purpose of these AIs is to see new players.

There's no need whatsoever to play Price, Hogg, Mbawsa, etc.

We need to keep the spine of the team but if Richardson, Steyn, McLean and Bayliss don't play, it will seem like a waste. Ritchie got found out in that last test and he needs to have a sit down and wonder if his Jane Fonda aerobic headband isn't too tight. I would absolutely love to see what Mish could do with Richardson next to him.

In terms of the back 3, there's no need to play Hogg whatsoever. Either the gangling speedster Blairhorn needs to get some regular gametime there or we need to accept that Graham or Styen is our number 2 in that position and play them. That's it. England have all kinds of problems in certain position because Eddie can't move from his favourites.

Would love to see at least Cummings back too.
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Post by bsando Tue 16 Nov 2021, 12:54 pm

Looking back on SA game I wish we’d had Maitland for that one. Would Mpimpi have skinned him on the outside like he did McLean? Somehow I don’t think so. Just one of a few things that have frustrated me this autumn so far with Scotland.

Japan should be another entertaining match. Going Scotland’s matches so far it’s going to be fast and wild with not a lot of structured play in the middle of the park. Hopefully it’ll be a strong finish for Scotland, but not just the scoreline, also the manner in which it is achieved.

Schoemann, McInally, Kebble
Cummings, Gilchrist
Ritchie, Watson
Bayliss
Horne, Hastings
Johnson, Scott
McLean, Steyn
Hogg

Turner, Bhatti, Z Fagerson, Skinner, M Fagerson, Price, Russell, Graham

Something like that anyway..

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Post by Hazel Sapling Tue 16 Nov 2021, 2:35 pm

bsando wrote:Looking back on SA game I wish we’d had Maitland for that one. Would Mpimpi have skinned him on the outside like he did McLean? Somehow I don’t think so. Just one of a few things that have frustrated me this autumn so far with Scotland.

Japan should be another entertaining match. Going Scotland’s matches so far it’s going to be fast and wild with not a lot of structured play in the middle of the park. Hopefully it’ll be a strong finish for Scotland, but not just the scoreline, also the manner in which it is achieved.

Schoemann, McInally, Kebble
Cummings, Gilchrist
Ritchie, Watson
Bayliss
Horne, Hastings
Johnson, Scott
McLean, Steyn
Hogg

Turner, Bhatti, Z Fagerson, Skinner, M Fagerson, Price, Russell, Graham

Something like that anyway..

McLean is still learning his trade. Maitland is the better player but I view the move away from Nel and Maitland as us moving into the 2 year window looking at the RWC2023. McClean could become a starter for the rest of the 2020's the way he has looked and this is his growing pains though I would have preferred Steyn to have had a shot at SA.

Like the side but think Bayliss is too lightweight for 8, think he is smaller than M Fagerson.

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Post by Old Man Tue 16 Nov 2021, 3:41 pm

Do you guys rate Steyn highly?

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Post by BigGee Tue 16 Nov 2021, 3:47 pm

Old Man wrote:Do you guys rate Steyn highly?

Yes, whilst he is not an x factor player, he just does the basics and the hard yards very very well and whilst not an out and out speedster he is no slouch either.

He actually played in the centre at 13 for Glasgow two seasons ago before he picked up his serious hamstring injury which kept him out pretty much the whole of the following year and was very effective there, it may actually be his better position but there seems to be more demand for him as a winger atm.

The Scottish player he reminds me most of is Sean Maitland, in terms of his consistency and work rate and he has not had a bad career.

I would expect him to win plenty more caps.

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Post by George Carlin Tue 16 Nov 2021, 3:47 pm

Old Man wrote:Do you guys rate Steyn highly?
Yes, strong all round game and very good judgement - very low error count.
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Post by Old Man Tue 16 Nov 2021, 4:05 pm

Cheers

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Post by tigertattie Tue 16 Nov 2021, 7:10 pm

I mean no disrespect to Japan when I say this but they are not the same team they were at the World Cup. They had 12 months to prepare. Look at Tonga and co, they say they get a few days with their team and it’s not enough compared to the couple of weeks the NH teams get and this then pales to the couple of months that SA, NZ and OZ get

Scotland should be putting 20 points on Japan at least this time round.

My prediction, even before the team is announced is Scotland 42 Japan 14
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Post by bsando Tue 16 Nov 2021, 7:47 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
bsando wrote:Looking back on SA game I wish we’d had Maitland for that one. Would Mpimpi have skinned him on the outside like he did McLean? Somehow I don’t think so. Just one of a few things that have frustrated me this autumn so far with Scotland.

Japan should be another entertaining match. Going Scotland’s matches so far it’s going to be fast and wild with not a lot of structured play in the middle of the park. Hopefully it’ll be a strong finish for Scotland, but not just the scoreline, also the manner in which it is achieved.

Schoemann, McInally, Kebble
Cummings, Gilchrist
Ritchie, Watson
Bayliss
Horne, Hastings
Johnson, Scott
McLean, Steyn
Hogg

Turner, Bhatti, Z Fagerson, Skinner, M Fagerson, Price, Russell, Graham

Something like that anyway..

McLean is still learning his trade. Maitland is the better player but I view the move away from Nel and Maitland as us moving into the 2 year window looking at the RWC2023. McClean could become a starter for the rest of the 2020's the way he has looked and this is his growing pains though I would have preferred Steyn to have had a shot at SA.

Like the side but think Bayliss is too lightweight for 8, think he is smaller than M Fagerson.

Yeah and I guess it depends on what camp you sit in. I’m more of the squeeze every last bit out of your best players type of fan rather than someone who wants the next big sensation on the pitch ASAP to replace them. Balance is key I guess and god knows what is going on behind closed doors in terms of player coaches relationships etc. Having an experienced operator like Maitland would surely have been beneficial last weekend. Even dropping Nel as you say is perhaps a surprise considering how good a scrummager he is, but Kebble and Fagerson are both doing a good job so far despite some errors and penalties.

I don’t know much about Bayliss but he looks a handy player to have, I was under the impression he’d been playing 8 at Bath so thought he might be able to slot in against Japan. M Fagerson has been solid overall and especially at restarts! Feels like an age since Scotland have totally botched multiple restarts during a match.

Steyn surely starts this match, he deserves it. I’m a big fan of his, reliable and physical with a good rugby brain.

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Post by bsando Tue 16 Nov 2021, 7:51 pm

tigertattie wrote:I mean no disrespect to Japan when I say this but they are not the same team they were at the World Cup. They had 12 months to prepare. Look at Tonga and co, they say they get a few days with their team and it’s not enough compared to the couple of weeks the NH teams get and this then pales to the couple of months that SA, NZ and OZ get

Scotland should be putting 20 points on Japan at least this time round.

My prediction, even before the team is announced is Scotland 42 Japan 14

When Ireland took them down with ease I was quite surprised. Considering how good Ireland have been this autumn I’m being cautious about this weekend. Japan will probably want to break up Scotland’s play and hope to punish mistakes. You’d hope Scotland can finish on a high and head into the 6N with continued confidence (not too much though!)

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Post by RDW Tue 16 Nov 2021, 7:54 pm

Bayliss and Fagerson are completely different builds. The former is tall and lean like a Luke Crosbie (who we're all forgetting about here). The latter is shorter and more compact.

We seen to be applying the 'plsys outside of Scotland so must be good' filter with Bayliss here. If anything, Crosbie has more earned his shot.

I don't see Bayliss or Crosbie as international 8s though


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Post by jimbopip Tue 16 Nov 2021, 8:01 pm

Bsando, you have Matt Scott12 at 13. He's slightly more ineffectual there than at 12.
I think I'd go with Seaman at 13 and Shona at 12. Or vice versa. Shona has played in the J League and will be famliar with their style so should play. Seaman is a very good player, who IMHO is better at 13 than he is on the wing.
Toonie knows that Harris is the 13 of his dreams. He also knows that the defensive structure collapses like Boris' lead in the opinion polls is about to if he plays Huw Jones so needs to start looking at other 13's in case Harris gets injured just before the world cup.
We know Johnson is the first choice 12 but I am scratching my bald pate wondering who else is making a serious case for the jersey. So play Shona or Seaman there and see what happens.

The All Blacks believe that a player needs 17 or 18 caps before he's really firing on all cylinders as an international. How many games do we have before the world cup? Whoever Toonie sees as his third choice 9, or 10, needs to start playing now. Similarly, the back ups for Johnson-Harris need to stat getting some game time. I would suggest that matches like this are where they should be playing.

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Post by RDW Tue 16 Nov 2021, 8:34 pm

Well based on a very short bibs v non-bibs video, Horne, Hastings, Johnson and Kinghorn are either starting or on the bench!

Given Johnson is in that mix I reckon it could be starting...

It could of course have just been a training drill.

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Post by jimbopip Tue 16 Nov 2021, 8:44 pm

Fecc me Flounder! Could you pick my lottery numbers this week?

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Post by George Carlin Wed 17 Nov 2021, 7:28 am

Let's have a reality check and slimline tonic for a second here:

23 October: Japan 23–32 Australia
06 November: Ireland 60 - 5 Japan
13 November: Portugal 25 - 38 Japan
20 November: Nicola's Republic of Jockistan 1,825 - 9 Japan
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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed 17 Nov 2021, 9:32 am

RDW wrote:Bayliss and Fagerson are completely different builds. The former is tall and lean like a Luke Crosbie (who we're all forgetting about here). The latter is shorter and more compact.

We seen to be applying the 'plays outside of Scotland so must be good' filter with Bayliss here. If anything, Crosbie has more earned his shot.

I don't see Bayliss or Crosbie as international 8s though

Bayliss is listed at 6'3, 106kg
M Fagerson at 6'1, 110kg
Crosbie at 6'5, 112kg

I agree Crosbie deserved a shot and he has the build of an 8 however, with Mata and Bradbury (at the time) blocking the way at 8, he became a 6.5 type flanker. Wouldn't mind having him instead of Haining at 6 and seeing how he gets on.

The only problem is Crosbie's form has dropped off, whilst Bayliss is playing well in a poor Bath team (the reason he is playing 8 is Faletau's injuries and Mercer realising picking England was a mistake so went for the money in France leaving Bath with no one of note). I don't think we will be experimental enough to have Bayliss, Richardson and Crosbie take up 3 of the 4 back row spots.

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Post by RDW Wed 17 Nov 2021, 9:53 am

I think Crosbie had had a good start to the season with Edinburgh, with a standout game in the last one against the Saffer team.

Not sure I'd agreed that his form has dropped off!

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Post by Hazel Sapling Wed 17 Nov 2021, 12:23 pm

Fair enough RDW, in which case we could see either Crosbie or Bayliss.

I think we have to cap Richardson right? Can't have all that mess over bringing him into the squad and then let him go without a cap.

It really will depend how we view Japan. I do think the Tombola will be out but we also have managed to lose quite poorly in 2019.


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Post by Old Man Wed 17 Nov 2021, 1:11 pm

Maybe the Boks should call him up for this weekend, We can turn McRichardsom into Van der Merwe Yahoo

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Post by demosthenes Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:10 pm

I think the Tombola is broke.

Teams out :

Scotland team to face Japan in the 2021 Autumn Nations Series at BT Murrayfield, live on Amazon Prime – kick-off 1pm.

15. Stuart Hogg – Exeter Chiefs - (Captain) – 87 caps

14. Darcy Graham – Edinburgh Rugby – 21 caps
13. Chris Harris – Gloucester Rugby – 30 caps
12. Sam Johnson – Glasgow Warriors – 20 caps
11. Duhan van der Merwe – Worcester Warriors – 12 caps

10. Finn Russell – Racing 92 - (Vice-Captain) – 57 caps
9. Ali Price – Glasgow Warriors – 45 caps

1. Jamie Bhatti – Glasgow Warriors – 21 caps
2. George Turner – Glasgow Warriors - 19 caps
3. Zander Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 41 caps
4. Scott Cummings – Glasgow Warriors – 20 caps
5. Grant Gilchrist – Edinburgh Rugby – 47 caps
6. Jamie Ritchie – Edinburgh Rugby - (Vice-Captain) – 30 caps
7. Hamish Watson – Edinburgh Rugby – 44 caps
8. Josh Bayliss – Bath Rugby – 1 cap

Replacements
16. Stuart McInally – Edinburgh Rugby 42 caps
17. Pierre Schoeman – Edinburgh Rugby – 3 caps
18. Javan Sebastian – Scarlets – Uncapped
19. Sam Skinner – Exeter Chiefs – 14 caps
20. Dylan Richardson – Cell C Sharks - Uncapped
21. Matt Fagerson – Glasgow Warriors – 16 caps
22. George Horne – Glasgow Warriors – 16 caps
23. Blair Kinghorn – Edinburgh Rugby – 27 caps

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Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:22 pm

Well that is a surprise! Not sure I see what we gain with this selection, sure if we go hard and win we can say we won 3/4 of the series but surely we'd have got more value out of giving game time to some of the fringe players? Is Hastings injured? We could do with keeping him warm in the 10 shirt for the next time Finn has a howler and needs to be hooked. I'd have definitely made more changes in the backline to keep building squad depth

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Post by jimbopip Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:28 pm

Well! That's a Tombola lite selection.
Cummings in the second row should give more dynamism in the loose and reliability in the line out
6-2 split means Blarehorn is covering 10 and 11 and 14 and 15.
If Harris pulls a hammy in the 10th minute we are well and truly Donald Ducked.

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Post by George Carlin Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:36 pm

That is a gluten-free, unsalted cracker of a Townsend selection.

I was looking forward to George Horne starting at tighthead.
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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:37 pm

I don't understand keeping Kinghorn and not Hastings.
It also feels a bit like we are potentially capping Sebastian and Richardson for the sake of it (almost in the style of EJ).
I get the sense in playing the strong, settled and familiar back line, we don't want to be torn to shreds again but, but think we should have had either Steyn or McLean on the bench for more match experience at international level.
Up front, it is good to have Cummings back, but we should have had either Hodgeson or Sykes on the bench, again for more international experience.
If Japan play like they did against Ireland, we should have a comfortable victory.

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Post by Anglobraveheart Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:40 pm

jimbopip wrote:Well! That's a Tombola lite selection.
Cummings in the second row should give more dynamism in the loose and reliability in the line out
6-2 split means Blarehorn is covering 10 and 11 and 14 and 15.
If Harris pulls a hammy in the 10th minute we are well and truly Donald Ducked.
Hogg to 13, Kinghorn to 15  Jimbo?

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Post by George Carlin Thu 18 Nov 2021, 1:40 pm

Anglobraveheart wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Well! That's a Tombola lite selection.
Cummings in the second row should give more dynamism in the loose and reliability in the line out
6-2 split means Blarehorn is covering 10 and 11 and 14 and 15.
If Harris pulls a hammy in the 10th minute we are well and truly Donald Ducked.
Hogg to 13, Kinghorn to 15  Jimbo?
Jim would cover all positions in the backline.
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Post by jimbopip Thu 18 Nov 2021, 2:06 pm

I would indeed but I would make Flippers Di Rollo look like Dan Carter.
If anything happens to our 12 or 13 then we can shuffle players around and have the requisite number of backs but you know that if the Sons Of Nippon did anything more complicated than the 12 taking crash ball off 10 then we would be struggling to keep our defence intact.
Mind, the Japanese never have any intricate moves up their silen sleeves so why worry needlessly?

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Post by sensisball Thu 18 Nov 2021, 2:16 pm

It would be interesting to see Blairhorn on for longer than 5 minutes to work his "magic". By "magic" I mean throwing the ball to his imaginary friend, Clarence. I find it touching that an International rugby player of such a high standard (able to play 10, 11, 13, 14 and 15 with ease ) has, unlike the actress in the current Crimbo Mcdonald's advert, decided to keep Clarence fully in his life, including taking him/ her/ it onto the field of play during Scotland matches.
It was touching to see him throw the ball to Clarence during the closing stages of last week's game, and reminds all adults to try to keep our inner child alive, even if it means looking like a rabbit in the headlights during a rugby match against the world champions.

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Post by bsando Thu 18 Nov 2021, 6:20 pm

I just had a feeling Bayliss would be starting at 8 for this one. I’m guessing Kinghorn is benching so Toonie can give him more hours at FH to ensure we have theee valid options during the six nations. I also think he must just have a really enormous man crush for his skillset. How many times does he use the word outstanding when talking about him after what we deem on here to be so-so performances? Who knows..

Great lineup though! Looking forward to being in the lower East Stand for this one. Hope we can get the win and avenge Tokyo 2019.


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Post by tigertattie Thu 18 Nov 2021, 8:03 pm

Well the big surprise is the lack of surprise

I can only think the Toonie is feart of the Japanese. He must be wanting to really make sure we beat them.

I wasn’t expecting a B team to be rolled out but I’d have thought rufus or steyn would have got another canter.

Oh well. We really need to put a good score on here or there’ll be some proper soul searching being required.
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