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6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February

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Post by George Carlin Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:10 pm

First topic message reminder :

6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Scot_f10     6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Irelan10 
SCOTLAND IRELAND 
4 February 2017
KO: 14:25
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Referee: Romain Poite (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) and Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand

Live on BBC, RTE, DMAX, FR2, ITV (H)

A. Head to Head

132 Played 132
66 Won 61 
5 Drawn 5
61 Lost 66
1,380 Points 1,475

B. Recent Form

19 March 2016
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
35 – 25 to Ireland

15 August 2015
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 22 to Ireland

21 March 2015
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
10 – 40 to Ireland

2 February 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
28 – 6 to Ireland

24 February 2013
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
12 – 8 to Scotland

10 March 2012
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
32 – 14 to Ireland

6 August 2011
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
10 – 6 to Scotland

27 February 2011
Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
18 – 21 to Ireland

20 March 2010
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 23 to Scotland

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 
6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Scotla10
15-Stuart Hogg; 14-Sean Maitland, 13-Huw Jones, 12-Alex Dunbar, 11-Tommy Seymour; 10-Finn Russell, 9-Greig Laidlaw (capt); 1-Allan Dell, 2-Fraser Brown, 3-Zander Fagerson, 4-Richie Gray, 5-Jonny Gray, 6-Ryan Wilson, 7-Hamish Watson, 8-Josh Strauss

Replacements: 16-Ross Ford, 17-Gordon Reid, 18-Simon Berghan, 19-Tim Swinson, 20-John Barclay, 21-Ali Price, 22-Duncan Weir, 23-Mark Bennett

IRELAND
6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Irelan10
15-Rob Kearney; 14-Keith Earls, 13-Robbie Henshaw, 12-Garry Ringrose, 11-Simon Zebo; 10-Paddy Jackson, 9-Conor Murray; 1-Jack McGrath, 2-Rory Best (captain), 3-Tadhg Furlong, 4-Iain Henderson, 5-Devin Toner, 6-CJ Stander, 7-Sean O'Brien, 8-Jamie Heaslip

Replacements: 16-Niall Scannell, 17-Cian Healy, 18-John Ryan, 19-Ultan Dillane, 20-Josh van der Flier, 21-Kieran Marmion, 22-Ian Keatley, 23-Tommy Bowe.


Last edited by George Carlin on Sat 04 Feb 2017, 7:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Sin é Tue 31 Jan 2017, 11:37 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of interest what are the Irish press saying about this game? Are they expecting much resistance from Scotland?

Everyone is saying Ireland hasn't a chance. I heard someone today say that Leinster & Ulster have already lost to Scottish teams this year.

A lot of people interested to see the amount of 'legal' treatment Conor Murray will be at the receiving end, now that Sexton is out.

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Post by The Great Aukster Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:09 am

Maybe Joe should start Marms to protect Murray? Smile

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Post by IanBru Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:42 am

Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of interest what are the Irish press saying about this game? Are they expecting much resistance from Scotland?

Everyone is saying Ireland hasn't a chance. I heard someone today say that Leinster & Ulster have already lost to Scottish teams this year.

A lot of people interested to see the amount of 'legal' treatment Conor Murray will be at the receiving end, now that Sexton is out.

I hope Murray receives just enough legal treatment to get him really upset. So, one tackle and a 'yo mama' joke should suffice.
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Post by George Carlin Wed 01 Feb 2017, 6:17 am

Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of interest what are the Irish press saying about this game? Are they expecting much resistance from Scotland?

Everyone is saying Ireland hasn't a chance. I heard someone today say that Leinster & Ulster have already lost to Scottish teams this year.

A lot of people interested to see the amount of 'legal' treatment Conor Murray will be at the receiving end, now that Sexton is out.
Ah, if only that were true Sin.

Irish Times and Irish Independent are all saying that they expect a straightforward Ireland win, Sexton or not and the words 'Grand' and 'Slam' appear a few times. Most of the other reputable outlets have gone with the stock line that Ireland should have too much - their strength in depth is apparently now "renowned".

So we don't have a chance. Business as usual before the tournament, really.
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Post by munkian Wed 01 Feb 2017, 10:00 am

The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Joe should start Marms to protect Murray? Smile

Read that as 'Mams to protect Murray'

6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Fawaydays1
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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 10:48 am

munkian wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:Maybe Joe should start Marms to protect Murray? Smile

Read that as 'Mams to protect Murray'

6N 2017: Scotland v Ireland, 4 February - Page 6 Fawaydays1

Laugh

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Post by tigertattie Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:17 am

IanBru wrote:
Sin é wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of interest what are the Irish press saying about this game? Are they expecting much resistance from Scotland?

Everyone is saying Ireland hasn't a chance. I heard someone today say that Leinster & Ulster have already lost to Scottish teams this year.

A lot of people interested to see the amount of 'legal' treatment Conor Murray will be at the receiving end, now that Sexton is out.

I hope Murray receives just enough legal treatment to get him really upset. So, one tackle and a 'yo mama' joke should suffice.

Just turning up will make him upset!

Murray is going to struggle this 6Ns with all the "attention" he'll be receiving from all the teams! By showing in the media that he's easily rattled he's painted a huge bullseye on his chest!

I'm giving low odds for Murray being carded at some point in the tournament for lashing out in frustration like a toddler having a temper tantrum!
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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:38 am

I doubt Murray is too concerned nor will he be any more of a target than he already is.

Most good teams focus on their own game rather than worrying too much about what individual players on other teams are doing.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:41 am

Not sure that's true given everyone has specialised defense coaches.

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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:42 am

....and the amount of analysis teams do on the opposition

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:43 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure that's true given everyone has specialised defense coaches.

What has that go to do with targeting individuals?

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:45 am

Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

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Post by IanBru Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:45 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:I doubt Murray is too concerned nor will he be any more of a target than he already is.

Most good teams focus on their own game rather than worrying too much about what individual players on other teams are doing.
Generally, I think you're right in terms of overall game execution, but if a player has a known flaw or 'special characteristic' (i.e. a short fuse), I'd be very surprised if opposition players don't notice and seek to exploit it.

In the inevitable testimonial articles for Vern Cotter that have been circulating this week, one example stands out: Vern had just left Clermont to coach Scotland, whose first match was against France. Cotter knew that Wesley Fofana was having trouble tackling with his left shoulder because of a recurring injury, so he apparently told his players to run at him to his left. That's just good team research.

It's the same reason that Ryan 'Batman' Wilson seems to get a special amount of attention in the 'afters' that inevitably go on - players know that if you rough him up there's a 50% chance he'll react. Of course, taking my Glasgow shades off for a moment, there's always the possibility that Wilson instigates these little tete-a-tetes!
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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:47 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

Id say the weaker teams might do this. The better teams like Ireland focus on their own strengths. I don't think they managed to beat New Zealand by focusing that much on what NZ were doing but rather forcing their own game on NZ.

In the greater scheme of things I cant see it being a big issue for Murray at all. At least no more of an issue than it already is.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:54 am

Fair enough. What does Farrell do again?

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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:54 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

Id say the weaker teams might do this. The better teams like Ireland focus on their own strengths. I don't think they managed to beat New Zealand by focusing that much on what NZ were doing but rather forcing their own game on NZ.

In the greater scheme of things I cant see it being a big issue for Murray at all. At least no more of an issue than it already is.

Can't agree with that  at ll- you just need to watch the Lions DVDs to see the players in the analysis suites looking at videos their opposite numbers.  JD2 and 1/2P were renowned for doing a lot of analysis into their opposite numbers on the tour. I'm assuming this isn't something they just did because they were on the Lions tour and regularly do this for Wales.

All Professional rugby teams do a lot of work looking at the opposition and individuals in the team.

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Post by the-goon Wed 01 Feb 2017, 11:59 am

Fighting talk from Greg.

http://www.the42.ie/scotland-six-nations-ireland-sexton-3215922-Feb2017/

“We watched them both, they were interesting and there was a clear difference why Ireland won the first game – because New Zealand’s error count was so high,” said Laidlaw.

“[New Zealand] made a lot of mistakes in the game, missed a lot of lineouts and didn’t give themselves a platform to launch attacks into the game.

“The key difference in the second match was they reduced their error count and were more aggressive in defence. Those were what we feel were the two main differences. We can take some stuff, some learnings out of that.”

This match is turning into a boxing match, there is so much trash talk going around. Loving it.

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Post by beshocked Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:07 pm

Has an Scotland-Ireland game ever had this much hype/build up?

It seems to be the game to watch of the 1st round IMO.

The biggest challenge facing Scotland in my opinion will be control. The Irish seem to have the stronger frontrow and Scotland will need parity in the set piece to stand any chance.

If I was Vern Cotter I'd go with the Glasgow duo in the centres to start with Taylor on the bench as a versatile option if he's fit.

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Post by R!skysports Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

Id say the weaker teams might do this. The better teams like Ireland focus on their own strengths. I don't think they managed to beat New Zealand by focusing that much on what NZ were doing but rather forcing their own game on NZ.

In the greater scheme of things I cant see it being a big issue for Murray at all. At least no more of an issue than it already is.

Every team does it. Whether it is disrupting line out, scrums, wings who are poor under the high ball etc

To say it is just ;weaker teams' comes across as incredible arrogant (I am not sure you meant it like that)


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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:11 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

Id say the weaker teams might do this. The better teams like Ireland focus on their own strengths. I don't think they managed to beat New Zealand by focusing that much on what NZ were doing but rather forcing their own game on NZ.

In the greater scheme of things I cant see it being a big issue for Murray at all. At least no more of an issue than it already is.

Can't agree with that  at ll- you just need to watch the Lions DVDs to see the players in the analysis suites looking at videos their opposite numbers.  JD2 and 1/2P were renowned for doing a lot of analysis into their opposite numbers on the tour. I'm assuming this isn't something they just did because they were on the Lions tour and regularly do this for Wales.

All Professional rugby teams do a lot of work looking at the opposition and individuals in the team.

Was the point of the analysis to injure their opposite number? I thought that was what we were talking about here.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:12 pm

Doubt anyone is talking about that bar yourself.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt anyone is talking about that bar yourself.

So what is all the talk about the the special attention that Murray is going to get? Or the target he has painted on his chest etc.

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Post by R!skysports Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:15 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Coaches will look to see where strengths are and try to negate them. That'll be in general and trying to disrupt at key moments. Murray is so good they'll almost certainly try to cut him off early, pressurise and rattle him.

Id say the weaker teams might do this. The better teams like Ireland focus on their own strengths. I don't think they managed to beat New Zealand by focusing that much on what NZ were doing but rather forcing their own game on NZ.

In the greater scheme of things I cant see it being a big issue for Murray at all. At least no more of an issue than it already is.

Can't agree with that  at ll- you just need to watch the Lions DVDs to see the players in the analysis suites looking at videos their opposite numbers.  JD2 and 1/2P were renowned for doing a lot of analysis into their opposite numbers on the tour. I'm assuming this isn't something they just did because they were on the Lions tour and regularly do this for Wales.

All Professional rugby teams do a lot of work looking at the opposition and individuals in the team.

Was the point of the analysis to injure their opposite number? I thought that was what we were talking about here.


Doh

There is no 'WE' in 'only the irish are saying it was to injure, the refs, the tmo, the citing commissioner and everyone else thought it was balls'


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Post by R!skysports Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:17 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt anyone is talking about that bar yourself.

So what is all the talk about the the special attention that Murray is going to get? Or the target he has painted on his chest etc.

For goodness sake

If he gets rattle when LEGAL TACKLES are made and you put LEGAL pressure on him and he loses it - then it is a LEGAL tatic

just like chasing a high ball to to LEGAL pressure on someone who you know is weak under the high ball

You really have to get over this conspiracy theory...

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Post by beshocked Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:18 pm

Very true riskysports. Every single side should look to negate the opposition if they can. Any sign of weakness.

Ireland look to negate the opposition with their infamous choke tackle.

It's just if you are too limited in your approach it makes you more predictable and easier to counter.

Scotland must have the answers to the questions that Ireland will inevitably ask.

Scotland managed to win in 2013 because of the incredible defence but I think this game will hinge much more on different things.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:18 pm

Looking to rattle him run at him block him. His paper talk is fine by me but let everyone know it was upsetting him. It's piling the pressure on him.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:21 pm

Riskysports wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt anyone is talking about that bar yourself.

So what is all the talk about the the special attention that Murray is going to get? Or the target he has painted on his chest etc.

For goodness sake

If he gets rattle when LEGAL TACKLES are made and you put LEGAL pressure on him and he loses it - then it is a LEGAL tatic

just like chasing a high ball to to LEGAL pressure on someone who you know is weak under the high ball

You really have to get over this conspiracy theory...

Being obsessed with opposition players is a waste of time. Loser talk.

What conspiracy theory? As you said hitting a player hard is legal. Surely an expected outcome of hitting someone really hard is that they might get injured. Sounds like a favourable outcome if you are so obsessed with an individual.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Looking to rattle him run at him block him. His paper talk is fine by me but let everyone know it was upsetting him. It's piling the pressure on him.

Maybe in your head it is.

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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

beshocked wrote:Very true riskysports. Every single side should look to negate the opposition if they can. Any sign of weakness.

Ireland look to negate the opposition with their infamous choke tackle.

It's just if you are too limited in your approach it makes you more predictable and easier to counter.

Scotland must have the answers to the questions that Ireland will inevitably ask.

Scotland managed to win in 2013 because of the incredible defence but I think this game will hinge much more on different things.

To be fair we were also helped by Jackson having a complete nightmare with the kicking tee and O'Gara doing that hilarious kick-pass that just didn't work!

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Post by Mad for Chelsea Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:24 pm

yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser" Whistle

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:25 pm

He certainly sounds rattled guns.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:26 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:yep, when France through Betsen deliberately targeted Wilkinson all game in 02, leading to France winning a game most thought they'd be thrashed in, that was clearly the tactic of a "loser" Whistle

Are you saying that he intentionally tried to injure Wilkinson?

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Post by bsando Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:27 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
beshocked wrote:Very true riskysports. Every single side should look to negate the opposition if they can. Any sign of weakness.

Ireland look to negate the opposition with their infamous choke tackle.

It's just if you are too limited in your approach it makes you more predictable and easier to counter.

Scotland must have the answers to the questions that Ireland will inevitably ask.

Scotland managed to win in 2013 because of the incredible defence but I think this game will hinge much more on different things.

To be fair we were also helped by Jackson having a complete nightmare with the kicking tee and O'Gara doing that hilarious kick-pass that just didn't work!

It was almost laughable that we didn't score a try off that kick, probably the worst kick I have ever witnessed at a rugby match.

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Post by IanBru Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:27 pm

Yeah, Murray is clearly upset by the whole thing. Poor guy.
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Post by R!skysports Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:28 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Riskysports wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt anyone is talking about that bar yourself.

So what is all the talk about the the special attention that Murray is going to get? Or the target he has painted on his chest etc.

For goodness sake

If he gets rattle when LEGAL TACKLES are made and you put LEGAL pressure on him and he loses it - then it is a LEGAL tatic

just like chasing a high ball to to LEGAL pressure on someone who you know is weak under the high ball

You really have to get over this conspiracy theory...

Being obsessed with opposition players is a waste of time. Loser talk.

What conspiracy theory? As you said hitting a player hard is legal. Surely an expected outcome of hitting someone really hard is that they might get injured. Sounds like a favourable outcome if you are so obsessed with an individual.

I really do not think you get it do you. the conspiracy theory which you keep bringing up is the plan to injury -as a tactic

No-one in the right mind goes with that tactic. It happens of course, it is a tough game.

No-one is saying they are obsessed with an individual and the players will be looking at their strengths and the opposition weaknesses across the board (as will Ireland)

I now think you are just trying to be a wind up merchant, so I will stop feeding you on this topic

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:29 pm

IanBru wrote:Yeah, Murray is clearly upset by the whole thing. Poor guy.

I'd say he just doesn't want to get injured by a cheap shot with the Lions tour coming up. Seems logical to me.

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Post by beshocked Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:30 pm

no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:32 pm

Riskysports wrote:

I really do not think you get it do you. the conspiracy theory which you keep bringing up is the plan to injury -as a tactic

No-one in the right mind goes with that tactic. It happens of course, it is a tough game.

No-one is saying they are obsessed with an individual and the players will be looking at their strengths and the opposition weaknesses across the board (as will Ireland)

I now think you are just trying to be a wind up merchant, so I will stop feeding you on this topic

I didnt bring it up. If you are talking about targeting someone it generally means take them out of the game because otherwise you are just tackling someone. If not what is the difference between targeting someone and just tackling them?

You seem really naive.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:33 pm

There's pressure on every game at this level beshocked. You feel that Murray s comment portray a relaxed guy? Not sure I do tbh and I'm sure other teams will notice.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:35 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

Best way to shut anyone down is as a team play better than their team. Its team game. If Scotland dont get the ball then Hogg and Russell wont get the ball.

I certainly wouldnt expect Ireland to be dishing out cheap shots on Russell and Hogg to target them that way.

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Post by IanBru Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:35 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
IanBru wrote:Yeah, Murray is clearly upset by the whole thing. Poor guy.

I'd say he just doesn't want to get injured by a cheap shot with the Lions tour coming up. Seems logical to me.
I guess he'd better make sure he's not in a position in which he'll be legally tackled. It's a perfectly reasonable decision - he just has to realise that playing for Ireland isn't important enough to him to risk being injured.
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Post by EWT Spoons Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:38 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 I would say there's a lot of pressure on both sides because the anticipation and hype has been built up.

Murray is an experienced player though and any pressure he can take off Jackson is good.

RDW Scotland indeed you bring up a good point, Jackson will not have happy memories of Murrayfield and that could work in Scotland's advantage.

I know Irish fans think highly of Jackson but he lacks the experience of Sexton.


Disagree gunsgerms. I think it's important to be wary of dangerous opposition players and if you can nullify them it's useful.

As for Ireland I'd certainly look to shut down Russell and Hogg.

To be fair, if you shut down Russell it's unlikely Hogg will see much of the ball other than what's kicked at him.

Keep the ball in hand and shut down Russell, and Ireland will have the beating of us...that said don't do those things and they'll probably still have the beating of us.

Also if they put laidlaw under pressure he will likely resort to box kicking so that would remove any risk from Russell as well.

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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:46 pm

In terms of tactics Ireland have an excellent kicking game, but then again one of Scotlan'd greatest strengths is counter-attacking spearheaded by Hogg.

If Ireland's kicking game is slightly off then we could punish them - see Hogg's fantastic try last year.

Laidlaw has spoken in the press about the aerial battle and has said that players have been doing lots of 'extras' before an after training to hone their skills in anticipation of the bombardment they are going to receive.

This will certainly be a key battle ground!


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Post by eirebilly Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:55 pm

Personally, I think what Glasgow did against Munster and Murray was not a problem, a bit sketchy at times but legal. What it has done is given Scotland an advantage around the rucks as Ireland will now put an extra blocker in place to protect Murray. I think it is an excellent tactic myself.

Sure if Munster did the same approach, I would not have an issue either.
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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:56 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:In terms of tactics Ireland have an excellent kicking game, but then again one of Scotlan'd greatest strengths is counter-attacking spearheaded by Hogg.

If Ireland's kicking game is slightly off then we could punish them - see Hogg's fantastic try last year.

Laidlaw has spoken in the press about the aerial battle and has said that players have been doing lots of 'extras' before an after training to hone their skills in anticipation of the bombardment they are going to receive.

This will certainly be a key battle ground!


The kick itself was fine the issue was that Ireland had three front row players in the back line when Hogg scored. it was a badly organised exit strategy from Ireland.

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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 12:59 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:In terms of tactics Ireland have an excellent kicking game, but then again one of Scotlan'd greatest strengths is counter-attacking spearheaded by Hogg.

If Ireland's kicking game is slightly off then we could punish them - see Hogg's fantastic try last year.

Laidlaw has spoken in the press about the aerial battle and has said that players have been doing lots of 'extras' before an after training to hone their skills in anticipation of the bombardment they are going to receive.

This will certainly be a key battle ground!


The kick itself was fine the issue was that Ireland had three front row players in the back line when Hogg scored. it was a badly organised exit strategy from Ireland.

It all links together though - your kicking game isn't just about the kicker as you say.

Also, the kick was too long / not high enough - Russell caught the kick under no pressure and was able to feed Hogg early who had acres of space ahead of him to spot that he had two fat boys ahead of him. If the kick had been shorter or higher Russell would have been under a lot more pressure and Hogg would have had much less time to react and play what was in front of him.

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Post by tigertattie Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:01 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Riskysports wrote:

I really do not think you get it do you. the conspiracy theory which you keep bringing up is the plan to injury -as a tactic

No-one in the right mind goes with that tactic. It happens of course, it is a tough game.

No-one is saying they are obsessed with an individual and the players will be looking at their strengths and the opposition weaknesses across the board (as will Ireland)

I now think you are just trying to be a wind up merchant, so I will stop feeding you on this topic

I didnt bring it up. If you are talking about targeting someone it generally means take them out of the game because otherwise you are just tackling someone. If not what is the difference between targeting someone and just tackling them?

You seem really naive.

nonsense! You can target someone without intending to injure them!

If you have a tall winger and you are playing against a small winger, you can target the opposition winger by firing high balls at him
If you have a really fast winger and you are playing against a big bulky winger who turns like an oil tanker, you target the opposition winger by pinging balls over his head!

Johnny Wilkinson was a 10 who stood quite deep and liked time to control a game. France targeted this area by having Betson fly up at Wilko as often as he could.
David Denton in his first year for Scotland was a devastating ball carrier. Teams then worked out that he would never pass the ball or offload in the tackle so they targeted him by charging out the line and hitting him low. They could target him like this as they knew his strength was building up a head of steam and breaking through a chest high tackle. Not having to worry about the dog leg created by flying out the line as he'd never pass, Denton's strongest part of his game was negated!
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Post by RDW Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:In terms of tactics Ireland have an excellent kicking game, but then again one of Scotlan'd greatest strengths is counter-attacking spearheaded by Hogg.

If Ireland's kicking game is slightly off then we could punish them - see Hogg's fantastic try last year.

Laidlaw has spoken in the press about the aerial battle and has said that players have been doing lots of 'extras' before an after training to hone their skills in anticipation of the bombardment they are going to receive.

This will certainly be a key battle ground!


The kick itself was fine the issue was that Ireland had three front row players in the back line when Hogg scored. it was a badly organised exit strategy from Ireland.

It all links together though - your kicking game isn't just about the kicker as you say.

Also, the kick was too long / not high enough - Russell caught the kick under no pressure and was able to feed Hogg early who had acres of space ahead of him to spot that he had two fat boys ahead of him.  If the kick had been shorter or higher Russell would have been under a lot more pressure and Hogg would have had much less time to react and play what was in front of him.

Apologies just watched it again and Hogg caught the kick - the same point still stands about it not being high/short enough though.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:07 pm

tigertattie wrote:

nonsense! You can target someone without intending to injure them!

If you have a tall winger and you are playing against a small winger, you can target the opposition winger by firing high balls at him
If you have a really fast winger and you are playing against a big bulky winger who turns like an oil tanker, you target the opposition winger by pinging balls over his head!

Johnny Wilkinson was a 10 who stood quite deep and liked time to control a game. France targeted this area by having Betson fly up at Wilko as often as he could.
David Denton in his first year for Scotland was a devastating ball carrier. Teams then worked out that he would never pass the ball or offload in the tackle so they targeted him by charging out the line and hitting him low. They could target him like this as they knew his strength was building up a head of steam and breaking through a chest high tackle. Not having to worry about the dog leg created by flying out the line as he'd never pass, Denton's strongest part of his game was negated!

How are Scotland going to "target" Murray then and how will it be any different to any other six nations/test match game he has ever played in?

Not sure what all the fuss is about.


Last edited by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by eirebilly Wed 01 Feb 2017, 1:08 pm

Am I correct in assuming that the weather will be bad in Murrayfield, making the ground slow and stodgy?

If so, I expect a very low scoring game with Ireland slightly edging it due to a barging CJ or Heaslip run. thumbsup
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