Welsh 23 to play against Scotland

1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Franics
4. Jake Ball
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ross Moriarty
9. Rhys Webb
10. Sam Davies
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Nicky Smith
17. Kristian Dacey
18. Samson Lee
19. Luke Charteris
20. Taulupe Faletau
21. Gareth Davies
22. Dan Biggar
23. Steffan Evans

No Alex Cuthbert then.

majesticimperialman wrote:No Alex Cuthbert then.

North just edged him out...

why have you dropped biggar and why if Cuthbert was 'faultless' is he out of 23?

Biggar was awsome today although Jiffy didn't think he was world class, that accolade went to Moriarty!

World class is a term that is very overused especially by Jonathan Davis.

I think Wales V Scotland is massive for Scotland. Wales have won 13 of the last 14, and Scotland haven't beaten Wales since Gareth Jenkins was Wales coach!

Yes it's true 10th of Feb 2007, was the last Welsh loss to Scotland.

While very few of those games have been close in any sense of the word.
So looking at it over the recent years, basically Scotland finish last or 5th depending on the Italy result. Last year in 2016, they did actually smash France, and Italy, and lost narrowly to Wales.

So in 2017 they beat Ireland so far, though to be fair IReland with Johnny Sexton are a much better team. If they can take out Wales then maybe, just maybe were back to the good old days of a strong Scotland, after MANY years of false dawns and disappointments.

Wales are almost Scotland's hoodoo side, they've had some shockers against them (2010?)

But they look sharper every game…tomorrow is a massive chance for them to kick on and prove what we're all thinking - and its in Edinburgh and Wales lack the ability to make the right decision under pressure, which Scots will inevitably bring down on them

That said with North, Faletau and Charteris back we look strong. Until you remember its Wales we're talking about.

For me, there is no shame to lose a game of rugby in Paris. If Scotland have REALLY turned the corner, then beat Wales in Edinburgh. That is the acid test. If they don't it's another year of talking about progress, another year of talking themselves up and falling flat on their faces, which has basically been happening every year since the turn of the century.

Sorry I am English - not here to gloat - but point out things that I thought led to us winning today.  Your backrow played well but were too easy to play against.  I think you would be better with someone at 6 with some power - Warburton is decent but he just does not hurt you.  Haskell just was able to overpower your backrow.  How about Moriarty or Thomas Young at 6 and Faletau at 8?

Cuthbert I am sorry to say was identified as a weakness before the game.  Surely you must have someone better.  And Halfpenny offers little but his kicking.  If you aren't going to use his kicking all the time, then don't bother picking him.

Wales should be really disappointed about losing that game and look at the reasons why.  It is also the reason why you lose to Australia to New Zealand all the time.  You need to set your aim higher than trying to win a tight game against England.

I was sad for Cuthbert.  He's been a kind of public enemy number one in the Welsh side in the eyes of many if not most informed Welsh fans - but today...well, he just seems to be a magnate for the most visible mistakes.  You look at the errors, you think 'that's not great', you hope it's not Cuthbert when you get a closer view - but yep, that's Cuthberts face in close-up.

I genuinely feel sorry for the man.  He started out with such promise, a real dangerous, opportunistic player - but something about his time in the Wales International set-up under Gatland drained just about anything good and exciting from him.

nlpnlp wrote:

Wales should be really disappointed about losing that game and look at the reasons why.  It is also the reason why you lose to Australia to New Zealand all the time.  You need to set your aim higher than trying to win a tight game against England.

I think that's what they are trying, nip. But that's a tough call. It ain't easy. If there was a magic lamp they could rub, I'm sure they'd use it.

SecretFly wrote:I was sad for Cuthbert.  He's been a kind of public enemy number one in the Welsh side in the eyes of many if not most informed Welsh fans - but today...well, he just seems to be a magnate for the most visible mistakes.  You look at the errors, you think 'that's not great', you hope it's not Cuthbert when you get a closer view - but yep, that's Cuthberts face in close-up.

I genuinely feel sorry for the man.  He started out with such promise, a real dangerous, opportunistic player - but something about his time in the Wales International set-up under Gatland drained just about anything good and exciting from him.

With time and space and the ball in hand he's a fantastic player. But there is little space in the modern game, it's all about not making mistakes and concentration, and having basic skills. Season after season he's making the same mistakes in the same situations. He's too fragile like Priestland sadly.

Oh I agree. It's just not the game for him - International as it's become. In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

SecretFly wrote:Oh I agree.  It's just not the game for him - International as it's become.  In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

When North is injured he's the best of whats left, in an empty pond and it shows.

nlpnlp wrote:Sorry I am English - not here to gloat - but point out things that I thought led to us winning today.  Your backrow played well but were too easy to play against.  I think you would be better with someone at 6 with some power - Warburton is decent but he just does not hurt you.  Haskell just was able to overpower your backrow.  How about Moriarty or Thomas Young at 6 and Faletau at 8?

Cuthbert I am sorry to say was identified as a weakness before the game.  Surely you must have someone better.  And Halfpenny offers little but his kicking.  If you aren't going to use his kicking all the time, then don't bother picking him.

Wales should be really disappointed about losing that game and look at the reasons why.  It is also the reason why you lose to Australia to New Zealand all the time.  You need to set your aim higher than trying to win a tight game against England.

The English supporters around me today got it spot on when they said that if Eddie Jones was coaching Wales we'd have won today.They also got it right when pointing out that Eddie J is loyal to players IF, and it's a big IF, their form matches their reputation.It's salutary to reflect that three of the Welsh backs today are not the form players in their positions in the Welsh Regions and,England were missing Kruis and the Vunipola's and Itoje was out of position.

Shifty wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I agree.  It's just not the game for him - International as it's become.  In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

When North is injured he's the best of whats left, in an empty pond and it shows.

I think Steffano Evans deserves gametime as an alternative.

maestegmafia wrote:

Shifty wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I agree.  It's just not the game for him - International as it's become.  In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

When North is injured he's the best of whats left, in an empty pond and it shows.

I think Steffano Evans deserves gametime as an alternative.

Hi Maesteg, we had a discussion on one of the other threads as to why he wasn't given a chance. Personally I think the management think he's too small.

OP: Still haven't explained why Cuthbert dropped if as you say he was faultless. And how ridiculous to drop Biggar after his performance

Now that France and Scotland are looking far more competitive this year, the real question, regardless of selecting particular individuals, is can this squad of players play at yesterday's intensity, away from home ? Recent history suggests they can't.
That is surely Howley's biggest challenge.

Recwatcher16 wrote:Now that France and Scotland are looking far more competitive this year, the real question, regardless of selecting particular individuals, is can this squad of players play at yesterday's intensity, away from home ? Recent history suggests they can't.
That is surely Howley's biggest challenge.

I thought they played at this level in two of the test matches in New Zealand last summer..

I hope they can improve on what they did on Saturday. I hope even more that thy can be more precise in attack and when defending a narrow lead with just five minutes left on the clock.

Shifty wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Shifty wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I agree.  It's just not the game for him - International as it's become.  In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

When North is injured he's the best of whats left, in an empty pond and it shows.

I think Steffano Evans deserves gametime as an alternative.

Hi Maesteg, we had a discussion on one of the other threads as to why he wasn't given a chance.  Personally I think the management think he's too small.  

They picked Shane Williams and Matthew Morgan so I doubt size is an issue.

Evans has many faults to his game, as does Cuthbert, but I really think we need to give a new guy a chance. The tackle Cuthbert missed on Daly was not impossible and he was no where to be seen for Biggars interception.

We need to work on our strength and depth and consistent selection will not benefit that criteria.

exile jack wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:Sorry I am English - not here to gloat - but point out things that I thought led to us winning today.  Your backrow played well but were too easy to play against.  I think you would be better with someone at 6 with some power - Warburton is decent but he just does not hurt you.  Haskell just was able to overpower your backrow.  How about Moriarty or Thomas Young at 6 and Faletau at 8?

Cuthbert I am sorry to say was identified as a weakness before the game.  Surely you must have someone better.  And Halfpenny offers little but his kicking.  If you aren't going to use his kicking all the time, then don't bother picking him.

Wales should be really disappointed about losing that game and look at the reasons why.  It is also the reason why you lose to Australia to New Zealand all the time.  You need to set your aim higher than trying to win a tight game against England.

The English supporters around me today got it spot on when they said that if Eddie Jones was coaching Wales we'd have won today.They also got it right when pointing out that Eddie J is loyal to players IF, and it's a big IF, their form matches their reputation.It's salutary to reflect that three of the Welsh backs today are not the form players in their positions in the Welsh Regions and,England were missing Kruis and the Vunipola's and Itoje was out of position.

Actually Itoje was not out of position for most of the match. He and Lawes swapped quite early in the game possibly because Lawes took a knock.

Exiledinborders wrote:

exile jack wrote:

nlpnlp wrote:Sorry I am English - not here to gloat - but point out things that I thought led to us winning today.  Your backrow played well but were too easy to play against.  I think you would be better with someone at 6 with some power - Warburton is decent but he just does not hurt you.  Haskell just was able to overpower your backrow.  How about Moriarty or Thomas Young at 6 and Faletau at 8?

Cuthbert I am sorry to say was identified as a weakness before the game.  Surely you must have someone better.  And Halfpenny offers little but his kicking.  If you aren't going to use his kicking all the time, then don't bother picking him.

Wales should be really disappointed about losing that game and look at the reasons why.  It is also the reason why you lose to Australia to New Zealand all the time.  You need to set your aim higher than trying to win a tight game against England.

The English supporters around me today got it spot on when they said that if Eddie Jones was coaching Wales we'd have won today.They also got it right when pointing out that Eddie J is loyal to players IF, and it's a big IF, their form matches their reputation.It's salutary to reflect that three of the Welsh backs today are not the form players in their positions in the Welsh Regions and,England were missing Kruis and the Vunipola's and Itoje was out of position.

Actually Itoje was not out of position for most of the match. He and Lawes swapped quite early in the game possibly because Lawes took a knock.

I fear we are at cross purposes.Eddie J picked MI at 6 for the second consecutive week.Whether or not MI packed down in a few scrums is not the point.MI did not play the same ball carrying role on Saturday that he does for Sarries.The point you've reminded me to make is that playing what's in front of you and adapting your game plan as required in the match is what southern hemisphere teams,and now England,do as a matter of course but which,sadly,eludes the Welsh coaching team.

i doubt it was the coach that decided not to go for 2 easy kickable penalties in what was clearly going to be a close game.
There was no evidence that Wales had any advantage at set piece, in fact, it proved to be the contrary.
It seems that AWJ is not allowed to be criticised unlike CR & yet I would argue the same adverse result occurred.

Personally, I'm not expecting many changes, obviously North would come in for Cuthbert, Charteris might replace Ball and Faletau replace one of the backrow, yet I wouldn't drop any of them.
To show that he is prepared to change, changes have to be made on the bench, sorry to say but Baldwin has to drop out of the 23, it is a pity Amos is injured as Roberts is not an impact change, and if he is fit I would have Charteris on the bench. I also don't rate Davies at scrum half, the only point on that is IMO the best 9 will be playing this weekend for the Scarlets, Jonathon Evans is better than both Davies's.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:i doubt it was the coach that decided not to go for 2 easy kickable penalties in what was clearly going to be a close game.
There was no evidence that Wales had any advantage at set piece, in fact, it proved to be the contrary.
It seems that AWJ is not allowed to be criticised unlike CR & yet I would argue the same adverse result occurred.

Sorry,but who is CR?(coaching regime?). You make a strong point about the penalty choices taken but Wales won the 1st half 13-8 and lost the 2nd half 13-3 so the substitutions and the last exit strategy were the key factors for me along with the fact that the Welsh coaching team consistently choose players who are not the form players for their regions and clubs.A growing problem for Wales is how often they lose width in the 3/4s so Ireland and Scotland could be a real handful as they move the ball wide quickly.

Cr is chris Robshaw.

France showed how to beat Scotland at the weekend. They imposed themselves physically a way Ireland failed to do.

If Wales impose themselves physically and revert to Warrenball they'll win.

An expansive open game suits us better. I just hope our diabolical injury list shortens in a couple of weeks.

Scotland's backs could well cause Wales some problems. Especially if Cuthbert plays. I feel really sorry for him. He's getting a bit of stick for the English try that killed the game but Davis should have booted that thing into touch and bought time for the Welsh line to reset. He didn't and the exhausted Welsh defence was so narrow they had no chance of drifting out wide to get to Daly.

I'd wager the Scottish video reviewers will be looking to get Hogg, Seymour and Maitland on those wide channels all game long.

I am worried about the physicality Wales can and might bring though.

international198 wrote:1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Franics
4. Jake Ball
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ross Moriarty
9. Rhys Webb
10. Sam Davies
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. George North
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Nicky Smith
17. Kristian Dacey
18. Samson Lee
19. Luke Charteris
20. Taulupe Faletau
21. Gareth Davies
22. Dan Biggar
23. Steffan Evans

I'd like to see Owen Williams paired with Scott W,Sam D to start and on the bench i'd like to see Thornton,Hibbard and Young. Both Charteris and Faletau should have 2 full AP games under their belt before consideration for Ireland and France.It'll never happen of course and it's better than evens that Tipuric will be dropped to make way for Faletau.If Cuthbert is anywhere near the squad it'll be a tragedy to rival Oedipus.

I think it's deeply unfair on Scotland that we don't get to play Tommy Seymour against Alex Cuthbert.

I think the OP has got the team about right. I do wonder whether Faletau might not come back in for a start, with Tipuric moving to the bench and coming on for impact, but otherwise North (failing whom a rotten leek) for Cuthbert seems a rather sensible and worrying switch.

I'm nervous from a Scotland perspective. Such a great start against Ireland, and I hope we can follow-up here and get a much overdue win against Wales.

Starting line up would be pretty much the same.

North will come back in if fit and against the Grey boys I wonder do we need Charteris starting though Ball has had two very good games.

The bench is where I'd make most changes, if Charteris and Faletau don't start then they'd be on the bench and for me Roberts offers nothing off the bench so I'd put O Williams, Evans or Hewitt there.

bedfordwelsh wrote:Starting line up would be pretty much the same.

North will come back in if fit and against the Grey boys I wonder do we need Charteris starting though Ball has had two very good games.

The bench is where I'd make most changes, if Charteris and Faletau don't start then they'd be on the bench and for me Roberts offers nothing off the bench so I'd put O Williams, Evans or Hewitt there.

Roberts power game in the centre might be useful in the final stages vs Scotland but I don't disagree with what you are saying

Roberts power game is two years out of date.

This will cheer you up.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/alex-cuthbert-outstanding-player-neil-12602620

Gwlad wrote:why have you dropped biggar and why if Cuthbert was 'faultless' is he out of 23?

I have dropped Biggar because I think he worked so hard against England he deserves a rest. The Ospreys are always interchanging Dan Biggar and Sam Davies. Sometimes Biggar starts, sometimes Davies start. Look how successful the Ospreys are. Wales should do the same, IMO.

Cuthbert should go as 24th or 25th man, IMO.

Nonsense. You don't drop a player in the form of his life because he "deserves a rest" and another because his last performance was - in your words - "faultless"

Wales have so many good wingers, it's a real selection headache. A Cuthbert is a fantastic player, however I would start with G North and L Williams and put S Evans on the bench for the Scottish game because they're showing some real talent at the moment.

Ok, Gwlad, you've made me change my mind. I would start with Dan Biggar at 10 instead of Sam Davies and I would start with Alex Cuthbert on the right wing instead of George North. George North has been injured so it's unfair to throw him straight in.

Shifty wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Oh I agree.  It's just not the game for him - International as it's become.  In less physical games where there is space he's a real and present danger.

But on a personal level, I felt for him today because we all know what the reaction will be during the week when more people discuss it all.

When North is injured he's the best of whats left, in an empty pond and it shows.

no he isn't there are numerous better but inexperienced options

The reason Moriarty was taken off has been made clear now, he's was being rested for Gloucester against Sarries tomorrow night. I hope they don't break him....

After watching the regions in action this weekend this is the squad I would go for now:

1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Jake Ball
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Sam Warburton
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Ross Moriarty
9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Liam Williams
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Alex Cuthbert
15. Leigh Halfpenny

16. Nicky Smith
17. Kristian Dacey
18. Samson Lee
19. Luke Charteris
20. Taulupe Faletau
21. Gareth Davies
22. Sam Davies
23. George North

Also, would it be possible to play Taulupe Faletau in the second row? Ryan Jones played in the second row for Wales.

international198 wrote:Also, would it be possible to play Taulupe Faletau in the second row? Ryan Jones played in the second row for Wales.

Faletau and Jones are two different people. They have different skill sets. Faletau is 6 foot 2. Jones is 6 foot 5.

I'm convinced this guy is a parody of some sort.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

international198 wrote:Also, would it be possible to play Taulupe Faletau in the second row? Ryan Jones played in the second row for Wales.

Faletau and Jones are two different people. They have different skill sets. Faletau is 6 foot 2. Jones is 6 foot 5.

I'm convinced this guy is a parody of some sort.

Parody is one word for it. He is clearly attempting to WUM but is confusing that with being a large pair of hairy plums.

Normally I'd start Faletau all day every day but in this instance I'd leave pack as it was and put him and Charteris on the bench.

I'd start S Davies at 10 and I'd also put O Williams and/or Steff Evans on the bench depending on Norths fitness