Jeff chat

First topic message reminder :

As LT has retired his excellent pen I thought it would be useful to have a running thread to discuss the Jeff games/ rounds. Entirely self-serving of course given my undoubted preference of club over country

With Balmain it's just come down to fitness around injuries from what I've heard. He will be fine with his rehab and working on the injury but trying to get him to do non impact work and keep some fitness has been the problem. He's then been slower to find fitness again once in training. Basically just sound like a case of playing being his motivation to graft, if he isn't playing for whatever reason he struggles for that motivation.

I don't think he's anywhere near the same category as Brookes was (or still is?) but it's still been enough to make him fall down the order this season with Bateman doing well at TH and Cilliers establishing himself as a solid option. I think he will do well at Gloucester. Rapava-Ruskin signing on the other side will certainly help their scrum.

Yep, Genge is rough around the edges and will rub some people the wrong way. He does seem to have an excellent attitude to improving as a player though. Hopefully he can continue to keep a lid on the problems he had at Brizz. To his credit they are yet to be seen at Tigers either on or off the field.

The more I look at the Bath - Tigers match ups the more I get excited and worried.

The Bath back row is better than Tigers from 6-8 which is worrying. Fitz isn't a flanker. Louw and Faletau are world class IMO.

The set-piece battle Tigers should dominate though. We have more jumpers and more experienced line-out leader in Kitch. Plus our front row both starting and on the bench should get the upper hand in the scrum.

Joseph should be too much for Tait to handle on current form. Taity has struggled with his diminishing pace all season and Joseph should expose that on the big HQ pitch. I wouldn't be surprised if Mermoz lined up at 13 in defence a fair bit.

Watson vs Veainu is an exciting full back battle. Both guys that people debate whether they are better at wing or full back. Two great runners if given space.

Even after that you've got the obviously interesting battle between Ford and Burns at 10...

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Presumably BT don't have the flexibility to change televised games once they are announced? With Worcester and Sale both in the no man's land by being safe from relegation with no chance of making the top 7 it could turn in to a bit of a dud, albeit possibly a high scoring one.

I quite fancy the Falcons Gloucester  game to be something of a cracker with both teams not yet ready to throw in the towel, especially looking at the run ins for both Quins and Saints. With the battle for 4th in all likelihood being wrapped up this weekend it might be the fight over 5-7 (should Gloucester not win the Challenge cup) that provides the excitement in the remaining weeks.

Think you might have jinxed it (though you did call high scoring). Five tries in an end to end to game means they are probably very happy with their choice of game.

Falcons 7-7 Gloucester at HT.

Mostly Falcons pressure but failing to convert, bit slow in attack with the Young/Delany axis not exactly great. Good May finish late in the half. I counted about 5 Gloucester pens with in the red zone with the ref just giving a warning after the last. We do 2 and get the same warning?? Apart from that, ref having a decent game.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Presumably BT don't have the flexibility to change televised games once they are announced? With Worcester and Sale both in the no man's land by being safe from relegation with no chance of making the top 7 it could turn in to a bit of a dud, albeit possibly a high scoring one.

I quite fancy the Falcons Gloucester  game to be something of a cracker with both teams not yet ready to throw in the towel, especially looking at the run ins for both Quins and Saints. With the battle for 4th in all likelihood being wrapped up this weekend it might be the fight over 5-7 (should Gloucester not win the Challenge cup) that provides the excitement in the remaining weeks.

Think you might have jinxed it (though you did call high scoring). Five tries in an end to end to game means they are probably very happy with their choice of game.

Yeah I sometimes forget that my preference for dramatic, tight games doesn't really match the flowing, high scoring rugby that the broadcasters prefer. I thought it would be high scoring because of half hearted defending but in fairness most of the points have come from nice attacking. Not a bad game at all.

I do think the last 30 or so minutes of the Falcons game will be more exciting than the conclusion to this though.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Presumably BT don't have the flexibility to change televised games once they are announced? With Worcester and Sale both in the no man's land by being safe from relegation with no chance of making the top 7 it could turn in to a bit of a dud, albeit possibly a high scoring one.

I quite fancy the Falcons Gloucester  game to be something of a cracker with both teams not yet ready to throw in the towel, especially looking at the run ins for both Quins and Saints. With the battle for 4th in all likelihood being wrapped up this weekend it might be the fight over 5-7 (should Gloucester not win the Challenge cup) that provides the excitement in the remaining weeks.

Think you might have jinxed it (though you did call high scoring). Five tries in an end to end to game means they are probably very happy with their choice of game.

Yeah I sometimes forget that my preference for dramatic, tight games doesn't really match the flowing, high scoring rugby that the broadcasters prefer. I thought it would be high scoring because of half hearted defending but in fairness most of the points have come from nice attacking. Not a bad game at all.

I do think the last 30 or so minutes of the Falcons game will be more exciting than the conclusion to this though.

I dunno whenever I've seen a Gloucester game recently the games have been close because Gloucester have a fair defence but litter their attack woth errors. Not a very enjoyable watch. I agree there's no real tension to the game but it's a nice starter for the big stuff in the capital.

We will get a pummeling in the scrum. Fourth choice TH and lightweight second row.

Falcons 16-14 Gloucester

Last min penalty kick from Hodgson gets us the win after winning the scrum against the head. Should have had it wrapped up in the first half tbh. Poor handling from falcons and an excellent Gloucester defence stopped us getting on the scoreboard. Happy with another win on the board despite not playing too well.

Bathite wrote:We will get a pummeling in the scrum. Fourth choice TH and lightweight second row.

I frigging hope so. If we don't take you to task up front we're in for a kicking. Your backrow is miles ahead of us and your backline looks pretty tasty. Our backrow has no caps and includes a second row no Tigers fan would select to start. Our backs include an outside centre with no pace and a flyhalf who will either be incredible or anonymous.

You could very easily query which marketing genius thought it a good idea to book both Twickenham and Wembley on the same Saturday, thereby spliting their audience. However the last I saw there was something like 50,000 & 60,000 thousand tickets sold respectively.

I wonder with the weather if that will be improved with on the day attendee's?

No way should Banahan be missing that tackle. O'Connor just strolled round him.

JP Doyle being extremely generous with Bath's early shove on every scrum.

5 scrum penalties and one free kick by Bath, 2 penalties by Tigers and both teams are on a warning? He's missed some stuff for Bath so he's not affecting the result but that's just silly.

I imagine he's had enough, Bath scrum looking the better this half.

Low quaiity game from.2 sides lacking confidence.

Although as I type.....3 class players in Falatau, JJ and Watson combine.

4-1 would've been fine but that's looking unlikely now.

I'm unsure how JP is still a Prem level ref.

Tigers error count was massive, can't expect results against top 4 teams playing like that.

Big result. Louw is so ridiculously good

JP wasn't great but Tigers were pretty woeful. Bath only slightly better and deserved the win. Bad game to watch for the neutral.

Still in Leicester's hands but we've seen over the last couple of years how they can panic and try to force things when chasing try bonus points.

Got a bit bored of the Unoffy's negative attitude towards Ford but I think he comfortably outplayed both Williams and Burns today. Whilst I really love Burns' attitude Tigers have definitely got the better end of the deal.

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Still in Leicester's hands but we've seen over the last couple of years how they can panic and try to force things when chasing try bonus points.

Got a bit bored of the Unoffy's negative attitude towards Ford but I think he comfortably outplayed both Williams and Burns today. Whilst I really love Burns' attitude Tigers have definitely got the better end of the deal.

For me Ford was the difference between Bath being out of the game a before half time and Bath being in a position to stage the second half fight back. He almost single handily created the momentum for the Bath first half try, his ability to step between tacklers and offload forced our defence to compact and leave space for his passing to exploit.

So Quins got a good old fashioned humping from Sarries, they're looking well set for the double this season.

yappysnap wrote:So Quins got a good old fashioned humping from Sarries, they're looking well set for the double this season.

Right now I can only see Leinster stopping them. We'll that or a monumental injury list.

Rather a long advantage and several metres made from a knock-on there before ref went back for a scrum - then a possible knock-on by Saints in the build up to that try - bit lucky with a couple of decisions there

Now he's calling knock-ons against Wasps that haven't happened - is this guy boss-eyed?

All the officials missed the ball being scooped back off the ground at the break-down before that try as well - poor showing so far

Ref has been decent, Wasps defence not so good. Seems Wasps are running out of steam a bit at the business end.

Agree Wasps defence is lacking but the officials have missed a lot - two ending in tries ...

It happens, refs arent infallible. I think you spend more time on ref watch than watching the game Heaf

Just take deep breaths and don't let them wind you up pal

this is serious stuff - I have a superbru grand slam resting on this ...

It's a nice pass from North there but surely he needs to back himself and power over to give a significantly easier shot at goal for his flyhalf. Naff tackle on Picamoles doesn't stop the offload.

phew that was close - GSP secured

Commentary said Wasps' winning try was scored by Paul Doran-Jones. He was getting quite a slagging off in this board's transfer news thread.

Why have Northamps preserved with Myler at best he is average all the teams above a superior kicking goal kicker and play maker

Rugby Fan wrote:Commentary said Wasps' winning try was scored by Paul Doran-Jones. He was getting quite a slagging off in this board's transfer news thread.

He was a fairly shocking addition by Wasps until the try. 

Rosbif, that has been discussed for years. I think the Saints management like him because his error rate is low and he's consistent in his average game play, doesn't really have a weakness other than his own average ability either. Any other flyhalf they've brought in has made a mistake at some point and been dropped. Having said that they've never chosen to spend big at 10 instead taking punts on attacking potential in Geraghty, Lamb and Hanrahan.

Rugby Fan wrote:Commentary said Wasps' winning try was scored by Paul Doran-Jones. He was getting quite a slagging off in this board's transfer news thread.

Pretty sure it was Mullen.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:Commentary said Wasps' winning try was scored by Paul Doran-Jones. He was getting quite a slagging off in this board's transfer news thread.

Pretty sure it was Mullen.

It was MM - it seems the Beeb are a bit slow to update.

The commentators initially said Mullan, but then corrected themselves and said PDJ (following teh stadium announcer I think) - so no surprise if the Beeb has it wrong.

LondonTiger wrote:The commentators initially said Mullan, but then corrected themselves and said PDJ (following teh stadium announcer I think) - so no surprise if the Beeb has it wrong.

I don't recall that probably because I was screaming with relief!
All other sites seem up to speed but Auntie ah well. I thought Saints played well & could easily have won yesterday. I can't see Wasps beating Saracens or maybe even Exeter at a neutral venue unless we tighten up our defence.
Yet another fantastic try from Wadey though - I wonder where he will be flying to?

Matt Mullan confirmed on Talksport that he was the one to score. Waters were muddied by PDJ himself, who was happy to let the confusion continue.

claim what you can Andy. You know that

https://twitter.com/PaulDoranJones/status/851174613228937216

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:The commentators initially said Mullan, but then corrected themselves and said PDJ (following teh stadium announcer I think) - so no surprise if the Beeb has it wrong.

I don't recall that probably because I was screaming with relief!
All other sites seem up to speed but Auntie ah well. I thought Saints played well & could easily have won yesterday. I can't see Wasps beating Saracens or maybe even Exeter at a neutral venue unless we tighten up our defence.
Yet another fantastic try from Wadey though - I wonder where he will be flying to?

Looks like an Ibiza kind of guy to me.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:So Quins got a good old fashioned humping from Sarries, they're looking well set for the double this season.

Right now I can only see Leinster stopping them. We'll that or a monumental injury list.

Really? I think Munster are a bigger threat.

Their mean defence will cause us more problems I think than teams that have been leaking tries for fun.

Current Table

Pos	Team	_P_	_W_	_D_	_L_	Diff	Pts
1	Wasps	19	15	1	3	175	74
2	Exeter Chiefs	19	12	3	4	164	69
3	Saracens	19	14	1	4	234	68
4	Leicester Tigers	19	11	0	8	67	52
5	Bath	19	11	0	8	31	52

Top 5 fixtures

Wasps
Bristol (A)
Harlequins (A)
Saracens (H)

Chiefs
Harlequins (A)
Northampton (H)
Gloucester (A)

Saracens
Northampton (A)
Bristol (H)
Wasps (A)

Leicester Tigers
Newcastle (H)
Sale (H)
Worcester (A)

Bath
Worcester (A)
Gloucester (H)
Sale (A)


Round 19 brought with it more questions than answers. With Saracens at the Aviva the following week they might send a weakened squad to Saints as a fight for a home semi could be futile even if they win all their remaining matches.

The battle for 4th is incredibly tight now and Bath's capitulation in the final 20 minutes against Saracens could be the decider. 2 home matches for Tigers and 1 for Bath is an advantage but crucially both teams have what should be their toughest match at home. A few Tigers fans have said they would be happy to take 14 points now and gamble on Bath slipping up at least once, probably the smart option but I'm far too pessimistic and sadly can't help but feel that Tigers will need the full 15.

Gloucester have won 6 games and have a points difference of +25 with 50 tries conceded, Newcastle have 8 wins, -138 points difference with 63 tries against. Falcons perhaps more likely to pick up the win, but also more likely to concede points in defeat. Firmly in Leicester's hands but in all honesty both teams are fighting for the honour of being humped away in the semi final.

beshocked wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

yappysnap wrote:So Quins got a good old fashioned humping from Sarries, they're looking well set for the double this season.

Right now I can only see Leinster stopping them. We'll that or a monumental injury list.

Really? I think Munster are a bigger threat.

Their mean defence will cause us more problems I think than teams that have been leaking tries for fun.

Munster are an excellent team and no game against them will be easy. They have similar strengths to Sarries though and I can't see Munster bullying Sarries up front enough to control territory and the Munster stand by of kicking to compete is unlikely to pay dividends against Sarries who are likely to name a back three comfortable under an aerial bombardment.

If Munster can get some decision at the scrum and the lineout then they might be able to apply pressure significantly for the win. Those decisions are influenced by the referee though and we saw how at Twickenham on Saturday how a sympathetic referee can benefit an under pressure scrum.

Sarries with the Vunipola boys and Farrell's boot should edge it. Leinster are a whole different kettle of fish with very good set piece, breakdown disruption and an encyclopedia of attacking threats.

Sarries with the Vunipola boys and Farrell's boot should edge it. Leinster are a whole different kettle of fish with very good set piece,breakdown disruption and an encyclopedia of attacking threats.

By this you mean the Sexton loop around?

Sam I think a team that has similar strengths to Saracens is more lethal because Saracens likes playing teams like Quins,Wasps and Glasgow generally.

Teams that like to attack are more vulnerable to the counter.

Now perhaps you might argue Leinster are the best, I'd rather face them than Clermont.

Saracens-Clermont have been very tough affairs. We haven't faced Leinster in a while but we are much stronger than them.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Sarries with the Vunipola boys and Farrell's boot should edge it. Leinster are a whole different kettle of fish with very good set piece,breakdown disruption and an encyclopedia of attacking threats.

By this you mean the Sexton loop around?

That's one I wouldn't be trying until second half against a Sarries side. A fresh Brad Barritt will spot that and be out of the line rearranging your ribs.

beshocked wrote:Sam I think a team that has similar strengths to Saracens is more lethal because Saracens likes playing teams like Quins,Wasps and Glasgow generally.

Teams that like to attack are more vulnerable to the counter.

Now perhaps you might argue Leinster are the best, I'd rather face them than Clermont.

Saracens-Clermont have been very tough affairs. We haven't faced Leinster in a while but we are much stronger than them.

Sarries do struggle against hard packs. Leinster have one of those. Second row isn't the biggest strength but they have a very good front row (two thirds of which are favourites to star the first Lions test) and an awesome backrow, Conan I really rate at 8 also Heaslip and SOB are big names and rightly so.

Leicester's team to face Newcastle

15 Telusa Veainu, 14 Adam Thompstone, 13 Jack Roberts, 12 Maxime Mermoz, 11 JP Pietersen, 10 Freddie Burns, 9 Ben Youngs (c), 1 Ellis Genge, 2 George McGuigan, 3 Dan Cole, 4 Dom Barrow, 5 Graham Kitchener, 6 Mike Williams, 7 Brendon O'Connor, 8 Luke Hamilton

Replacements

16 Tom Youngs, 17 Greg Bateman, 18 Fraser Balmain, 19 Mike Fitzgerald, 20 Harry Thacker, 21 Sam Harrison, 22 Owen Williams, 23 Mathew Tait


Newcastle

15 Marcus Watson, 14 Vereniki Goneva, 13 Chris Harris, 12 Juan Pablo Socino, 11 Sinoti Sinoti, 10 Joel Hodgson, 9 Micheal Young, 1 Rob Vickers, 2 Kyle Cooper, 3 David Wilson, 4 Calum Green, 5 Evan Olmsted, 6 Mark Wilson, 7 Will Welch (C), 8 Nili Latu,

Replacements

16 Ben Sowrey, 17 Ben Harris, 18 Jon Welsh, 19 Will Witty, 20 Callum Chick, 21 Sam Egerton, 22 Craig Willis, 23 Zach Kibirige

Northampton's team to face Saracens

15 Ahsee Tuala, 14 Ken Pisi, 13 Luther Burrell, 12 Harry Mallinder, 11 Ben Foden, 10 Stephen Myler, 9 Nic Groom, 1 Alex Waller, 2 Dylan Hartley, 3 Kieran Brookes, 4 Courtney Lawes, 5 David Ribbans, 6 Jamie Gibson, 7 Tom Wood, 8 Louis Picamoles

Replacements

16 Mikey Haywood, 17 Ethan Waller, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Api Ratuniyarawa, 20 Teimana Harrison, 21 Lee Dickson, 22 Rory Hutchinson, 23 Juan Pablo Estelles

Saracens

15 Alex Goode, 14 Nathan Earle, 13 Marcelo Bosch, 12 Duncan Taylor, 11 Sean Maitland, 10 Alex Lozowski, 9 Ben Spencer, 1 Titi Lamositele, 2 Jamie George (c), 3 Vincent Koch, 4 Nick Isiekwe, 5 George Kruis, 6 Joel Conlon, 7 Schalk Burger, 8 Jackson Wray

Replacements

16 Schalk Brits, 17 Hayden Thompson-Stringer, 18 Petrus Du Plessis, 19 Michael Rhodes, 20 Billy Vunipola, 21 Henry Taylor, 22 Nick Tompkins, 23 Chris Ashton,

Early signs that O'Connor doesn't share Mauger's enthusiasm for Fitzgerald at 6. Looking back I can't recall seeing Williams, Hamilton and O'Connor all lining up together to start since Cockerill's departure, but my memory is poor. (E: was used against Bristol in the 50-17 victory.)

Great to see Harrison back, the rumours led me to believe we wouldn't be seeing until next season. Again Rizzo and Cilliers missing, presumably injured but as far as I know nothing has been said.