The Undertaker vs. Roman Reigns - Singles match

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Sat 01 Apr 2017, 6:59 pm

Discuss the match in here - All pre-event spoilers (dirtsheet rumours and bookmakers odds included) to be put in spoilers boxes please.

by Fernando Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:59 am

winner:

by Fernando Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:18 am

Other stuff:

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:20 am

There'll be versions of every wrestler recreated, but I'm not sure they'll ever get another Undertaker. The character traits can be templated, but he represented something.

That's a real part of my childhood dying and it's a bit miserable, even if it looked very overdue; it wasn't the body of a man who should be wrestling

by GSC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 8:58 am

He should've gone after 30 really, looked shot around 29

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 9:48 am

Taker

I thought Roman sold it beautifully at the end in his mannerisms, and he actually carried a clearly done Taker to as good a match as you're gonna get out of him at this stage. Result was how it should've gone down, and the Taker leaving the ring and walk up the ramp was genuine lump in the throat type stuff.

by Engel Harlequin Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:18 pm

They do this all the time now with Taker, I wouldn't rule out seeing him in one last match this year, probably Survivor Series.

In fact last year he even left his gloves in the ring.

The fact is, the match was never sold as his retirement match. He might not be in ring shape but until Taker comes out and says I retire then to me this is just another of those shocking "will the deadman come back" moments, just like the end of an era match, just like after the streak just like after last years mania.

Either he comes out soon and says I retire only to be called out on it or we will never see him till next years HOF.

I personally believe that leaving the ring gear was a farewell to the deadman character (hence the kayfabe breaking kiss) but we may get the ABA or just plain Mark Calloway vs Cena at Survivor Series and as a huge Taker fan I hope to god its a better match than this atrocity.

by GSC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:31 pm

Seems the company line is hes retired, not convinced it'd have been the main event if it wasn't his last match.

Either way its time to walk away, his body can't hold up anymore and it hurts his legacy and his opponent to have to carry him through matches.

by GSC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 1:34 pm

Be a nice moment if he and Kane headlined next years HoF class though

by Engel Harlequin Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:16 pm

GSC wrote:Seems the company line is hes retired, not convinced it'd have been the main event if it wasn't his last match.

Either way its time to walk away, his body can't hold up anymore and it hurts his legacy and his opponent to have to carry him through matches.

Its his last Wrestlemania match thats for sure. But being honest i cannot see Taker being happy with that being his last match. Especially when him and Lesnar put on two clinics at Summerslam and HIAC.

Truth be told i am in denial. Taker SHOULD NOT ever set foot in a ring for match ever again. He struggled from an already shouldered position to perform a last ride (we got a basic power bomb)
He seemed too weak to help Roman with the tombstone reversal and he just looks pitiful...but...

...I would mark the f out if Roman comes out claiming his yard only for Rollin' to hit and ABA come out for Payback.

by GSC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 2:53 pm

To be honest, Takers probably content to walk away having put over a younger talent. Hes not going to come back to beat Reigns, so he'd be throwing away his WM main event farewell moment for a fairly meaningless loss.

I imagine we'll have the Ric Flair style retirement segment on tonights Raw or something.

by Paul Mac 6CW Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:02 pm

GSC wrote:To be honest, Takers probably content to walk away having put over a younger talent. Hes not going to come back to beat Reigns, so he'd be throwing away his WM main event farewell moment for a fairly meaningless loss.

I imagine we'll have the Ric Flair style retirement segment on tonights Raw or something.

I'm expecting Raw to open with a retirement segment in all honesty - I think it would be great to see the entire roster stand behind one of the most iconic performers in wrestling history and say thank you

by marty2086 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:12 pm

Paul Mac 6CW wrote:
GSC wrote:To be honest, Takers probably content to walk away having put over a younger talent. Hes not going to come back to beat Reigns, so he'd be throwing away his WM main event farewell moment for a fairly meaningless loss.

I imagine we'll have the Ric Flair style retirement segment on tonights Raw or something.

I'm expecting Raw to open with a retirement segment in all honesty - I think it would be great to see the entire roster stand behind one of the most iconic performers in wrestling history and say thank you

I don't think you'll see Taker doing a retirement segment ala Ric Flair

I saw they left his gear in the ring even as the set was being taken down, my money is Raw will open with it in the middle of the ring and some sort of acknowledgement of it all

by marty2086 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:23 pm

The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

by **Good Golly I'm Olly** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:45 pm

marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

Because I'm sure the 52 year old, barely standing up Undertaker was well up for "trying some new moves" in his last ever match.............

Roman is a genuinely very good wrestler and exceptional athlete. It's not his fault he's booked like cr@p by WWE

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 3:52 pm

marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:02 pm

I don't really feel too bothered for Undertaker's retirement to be honest, he's never been someone I've ever overly enjoyed, I loved early heel Taker and Ministry Undertaker, there has been times I've enjoyed him but over the entire piece I've felt an air of predictability about him, he's had an incredible run and I think he'll forever be unique to WWE and his WrestleMania record will never be beaten, that'll be his Legacy but the time was long overdue, he looked like an old man with a broken body last night, not even selling but his leg movement was poor and it's just not a job he could keep doing.

He's a legend to most wrestling fans, even though he held off too long I still think he went out the right way, he lost to the guy WWE want as their next big thing

by marty2086 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:06 pm

Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

by Ché Guerrero Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:16 pm

We have too many threads. Overall thoughts on the show:

Dont really care about Roman going over. Taker looked shot but still told the story like the pro he is.

Taker retiring and saying goodbye as he did was very sad.

Hardys return was fecking amazing!!!

Shane vs AJ and Brock vs Golberg were way better than i thought they would be.

Most disappointing match was probably the mixed tag because Miz got buried

Enjoyed seeing Steph go through a table

by **Crimey** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:34 pm

This was really depressing. I don't think it was the right decision to have Reigns retire The Undertaker, he doesn't need more reasons for the fans to be against him and at this point I'm not sure Roman Reigns as the top face of the company is even an achievable dream anymore. He'd have to have a pretty lengthy heel run for people to forget the way he has been pushed since 2014. I used to like Reigns and I still think he's capable of putting on matches but the way he has been booked makes it really hard to like him.

He's main evented three Wrestlemania's in a row, I suspect by the end of his career he'll have overtaken Hogan's record of 8 Wrestlemania main events because if WWE hasn't learnt yet, they're just not going to.

I didn't think it at the time but Undertaker should have retired when the Streak ended. That match told a much better story than this one, the end of the Streak is a much stronger moment to end his career on. Wrestlemania 31, 32 and 33 have seen really poor Undertaker matches and have done nothing for his legacy or his opponents. The only good reason for Undertaker sticking around was the program he had with Lesnar after the Streak ending.

He looked very old tonight and incapable of putting on even half the level of quality he was achieving from Wrestlemania 23-29. The failure to reverse the Tombstone was sad and I think to go out so poorly is a real shame. Especially when you compare to Shawn Michaels, who went out when he was arguably still the best in-ring performer in the company. I hope this is the end because I don't think his body can take it and every time he brings himself out I feel it really taints how fantastic of a performer he was.

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:36 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

You're blaming Roman Reigns for the lay out of the PPV, the Spear is his finishing move, anyone who's watched a Taker match at WrestleMania in the last 10 years knows it's kick out central with finishers, Reigns was always going to have to hit 3 or 4 to put him away, it's probably about the only realistic bump The Undertaker could take

by marty2086 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:41 pm

Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

You're blaming Roman Reigns for the lay out of the PPV, the Spear is his finishing move, anyone who's watched a Taker match at WrestleMania in the last 10 years knows it's kick out central with finishers, Reigns was always going to have to hit 3 or 4 to put him away, it's probably about the only realistic bump The Undertaker could take

Any worker with a bit of imagination considers what went earlier in the card, if you are a main eventer its one of the challenges

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:47 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

You're blaming Roman Reigns for the lay out of the PPV, the Spear is his finishing move, anyone who's watched a Taker match at WrestleMania in the last 10 years knows it's kick out central with finishers, Reigns was always going to have to hit 3 or 4 to put him away, it's probably about the only realistic bump The Undertaker could take

Any worker with a bit of imagination considers what went earlier in the card, if you are a main eventer its one of the challenges

Again, I don't think The Undertaker looked capable of taking a better bump, that's the real issue here, why you're choosing to place the blame of that on Roman Reigns is beyond me.

by marty2086 Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:55 pm

Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

You're blaming Roman Reigns for the lay out of the PPV, the Spear is his finishing move, anyone who's watched a Taker match at WrestleMania in the last 10 years knows it's kick out central with finishers, Reigns was always going to have to hit 3 or 4 to put him away, it's probably about the only realistic bump The Undertaker could take

Any worker with a bit of imagination considers what went earlier in the card, if you are a main eventer its one of the challenges

Again, I don't think The Undertaker looked capable of taking a better bump, that's the real issue here, why you're choosing to place the blame of that on Roman Reigns is beyond me.

Who said it had to be bigger? All I said was there should be something special, now that could be a Superman punch with brass knucks

You are right though about just blaming Reigns, the agents for the match deserve a good slap that's part of their job but then again its likely Vince has had plenty of input into it

by GSC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 4:57 pm

Eh, as much as Reigns isn't booked well, the same group that still chant CM Punk weekly will always boo him regardless of what he does.

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 5:06 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Kay Fabe wrote:
marty2086 wrote:The match itself highlighted Roman Reigns faults, he's so f#@king boring, he used all of 4 moves in the match

This is maybe the most iconic Superstar ever and he pulls nothing special out to retire him, if that was a Rollins or someone of that ilk you would have seen something new or variation of something to make it special

I'm not entirely sure what you were expecting, Reigns is a powerhouse, he's also extremely athletic but he isn't technically skilled, pulling "something new" out on an old broken man who is also an icon to most fans in the arena and at home wouldn't be the way to go, you just wouldn't take the risk, Roman is around 250lbs, it was quite obvious Taker couldn't bump so in that sense Reigns' hands were tied.

Im not saying he needs to hit a shooting star press but something different would be good to see, we already had a match just before it loaded with spears, did we really need another spearfest?

You're blaming Roman Reigns for the lay out of the PPV, the Spear is his finishing move, anyone who's watched a Taker match at WrestleMania in the last 10 years knows it's kick out central with finishers, Reigns was always going to have to hit 3 or 4 to put him away, it's probably about the only realistic bump The Undertaker could take

Any worker with a bit of imagination considers what went earlier in the card, if you are a main eventer its one of the challenges

Again, I don't think The Undertaker looked capable of taking a better bump, that's the real issue here, why you're choosing to place the blame of that on Roman Reigns is beyond me.

Who said it had to be bigger? All I said was there should be something special, now that could be a Superman punch with brass knucks

You are right though about just blaming Reigns, the agents for the match deserve a good slap that's part of their job but then again its likely Vince has had plenty of input into it

I'm glad he didn't use brass knuckles, the story wasn't much but it was all about ego, Roman Reigns is a tough guy, sells himself as that too, he beat him on his own, when he goes with Lesnar for the Title both can say they beat him, at least this way Heyman can't diminish his victory by claiming he needed weapons to get the job done.

At this stage there is very little you can do with The Undertaker, gimmick matches would tend to hide his flaws, I think most guys just try to wrestle their own match with him because no-one wants to be the guy in the back who breaks the last straw holding him together.

by Samo Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:13 pm

I think its the right guy, at the right place at the wrong time. This will put Reigns over massively and they NEED to start booking him as a heel proper. Felt like a proper retirement match like HBK's and Ric Flairs where it takes a herculean effort to put them down.

He went out on his back, at WrestleMania with JR calling the match. Thats what he wanted, hes definitely retired.

Should have retired with the streak, but hindsight is perfect.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:19 pm

For all the complaints about Reigns, he was basically pawn in a match entirely about the undertaker. Every part of it was about Taker

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:26 pm

I'm glad he didn't retire with the streak, I loved seeing it broken, I'm also glad Reigns beat him too, he's the one guy I think can actually do something with it, I always felt two beating him was better than one, this way Lesnar and Reigns have an extra adage to their feud, the only guys who could put The Undertaker down.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Mon 03 Apr 2017, 7:32 pm

And I also love watching Reigns and Lesnar fight. It feels like two people who fight, real sluggers knocking shades out of each other. Few matches in current WWE I'd prefer to see for the title than Lesnar vs Reigns

by Kay Fabe Mon 03 Apr 2017, 9:30 pm

I think you're right, Reigns (like Goldberg) is the only guy in the WWE right now who'll be presented as an equal to Lesnar, only he is in his prime, I'd like to see him defend against Joe and Seth before he takes on Roman at SummerSlam.

I think they have a strong back story from two years ago too, Roman brought his A game that night but Brock mostly toyed with him, I think him conquering Brock would do more for him than anything he's done since The Shield split.

by NickisBHAFC Mon 03 Apr 2017, 10:22 pm

That's taker done for sure Sad

Please turn Reigns full blown heel on Raw tonight now!

by Kay Fabe Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:36 am

Does Reigns need to officially turn heel? he's probably the biggest heel in the company right now, he doesn't act like a face or try and get cheers anymore, if anything his moveset is now designed to deliberately antagonise the fans, or at least those who won't ever like him.

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:39 am

I think he's brilliantly and uniquely tweener. Cena was always a face that adults hated, but never played on it. Reigns is a bit of a badass, but they don't find him cool, and that seems to also fuel him. When Cena used to say he didn't mind people hating him it just came across as someone being too nice to everyone. Reigns, it seems, just doesn't give a s*** about them

by Kay Fabe Tue 04 Apr 2017, 11:29 am

I think you're spot on with that analysis and I think ultimately that will be the thing that'll eventually makes him the most popular guy in the company.

by Samo Tue 04 Apr 2017, 11:41 am

I dont think he needs to change how he acts or anything like that, but WWE need to start booking him like a heel. Its all well and good behaving like a heel but when you're being booked to go over guys like Strowman and Owens clean it doesnt help you any.

He needs to start facing guys like Sami Zayn who are super over as faces to keep getting the good kind of heel heat, because right now he's just the target to voice displeasure at the product as a whole, not because he's doing anything to get heat.

by NickisBHAFC Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:38 pm

Don't view if you are sensitive:

by marty2086 Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:41 pm

NickisBHAFC wrote:Something Nick said that was too full of content

Ever hear of a spoiler?

by Samo Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:43 pm

Can you really spoil something that didnt happen?

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:44 pm

I'd have avoided a thread about Taker and Raw related stars, especially if something that innocuous causes witty sarcasm

by marty2086 Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:48 pm

How very welcoming you are, stay away if someone can't use a spoiler warning Rolling Eyes

by **Dolphin Ziggler** Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:50 pm

It's just common sense though. I will spoiler it now, but I'd have been more annoyed at myself than Nick if I'd logged in to this thread and then seen that. Especially for something that doesn't really spoil anything.

by Samo Tue 04 Apr 2017, 12:53 pm

They didnt mention Stings retirement either. Hope I didnt spoil that for you.

by NickisBHAFC Tue 04 Apr 2017, 11:53 pm

Apologies if I caused offence! Really didn't think I was spoiling anything though. That being said, why would you go into a forum and more importantly into a thread that could potentially contain spoilers?!

by GSC Wed 05 Apr 2017, 9:36 am

It's a topic devoted to 1 match, if you don't want anything about that one topic spoiled, don't enter?

People are going to use it to discuss the match and outcome after all

by Sponsored content