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Tyson Fury - Does Heavyweight Boxing really need him ??..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:46 am

Wilder v Parker....Wilder v Whyte....Joshua v Wlad..Joshua v Wilder...Bellew v Chisora.. Whyte v Chisora 2....Parker v Chisora....Parker V Ortiz....Wilder v Ortiz....Haye v Joshua..Parker v Bellew...Wilder v Haye...Joshua v Ortiz...Parker v Whyte...

I think there are interesting fights to be made...

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:50 am

Course it does between him and Joshua for the best heavyweight in the world isn't it

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:50 am

Though Wilder has to be in the argument too at this stage

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:56 am

Heavyweights retire Herman and the sport moves on...

I think it is an exciting time......

Those matchups would be interesting me thinks.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 11:58 am

Fury doesn't interest me in the slightest and the division is better off without his self serving antics.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:00 pm

Not sure Parker's anything special so quite looking forward to his fight with Fury, don't think Bellew's big enough for heavyweight, Haye v Joshua I quite like though

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:03 pm

If Joshua batters Wlad....I imagine Fury's victory becomes less impressive also.

Tends to happen in Boxing.....Wins get diminished in hindsight.

Not sure it is fair mind.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:06 pm

Definitely the win gets diminished in my book no question will show Wlad ruled a weak one first two decent heavies he'd faced in years he couldn't hack it

Joshua /Wilder I like too

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 12:19 pm

But let's not count our chickens Wlad may still have a surprise or two up his sleeve

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Post by AdamT on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:14 pm

Why would it look diminished?

Did pacquiao flattening Hatton, take anything away from Floyd?

Hearns flattened Duran, Leonards win wasn't as comprehensive?

Lewis struggled more with Bruno than Mike.

Fury beat a guy that ruled the division for a decade. Even if AJ were to flatten Wlad in seconds, it doesn't take anything away from Fury.

Everyone was picking Wlad then and most are picking AJ now.

Wlad was beat years ago, but Fury was up against a man who believed he was the best in the business and one of the longest title reigns in heavy history. Say what you want about Wlad, or his opposition, he was a dominant world champion and undisputed.



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Post by Herman Jaeger on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:25 pm

No you're right it wouldn't diminish the win it was a good win and that's that it would put the win in perspective though

Maybe show Wlad wasn't as good as a lot of people were thinking seeing as the Wlad Joshua will be facing will probably be exactly the same one that Fury faced

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Post by catchweight on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 1:42 pm

Excellent win for Fury in context, against a backdrop of plenty of vocal opinions that he would get flattened before the first bell. Those that dont like the guy look to cheapen it simply because they dont like Fury. Its was a pretty poor fight though, which simply re-enforced my opinion that Klitschko just wasnt a great heavyweight to begin with. Fury boxed well though, and proved he wasnt the useless boxer that so many hoped. At the moment that win is about the most significant one in the division half a decade or more and put Fury at the top of the pile.

Juudgin by the recent photos I have seen of Fury he looks in horrendous condition now. Im sceptical he can successfully come back and reach the level he got to for the Klitschko fight. I think he adds something to a division that doesnt have a great deal going for it so I would like to see him back and in shape.

I think Joshua remains the brightest hope for the division (out of slim pickings it has to be said) but Im still on the fence until I see how he gets on with Kitschko. If he swats Kitschko aside with ease then it woud be hard not to view him as the best in the division with or without Fury. If he struggles with Klitschkos experience and gameplan, then it makes a Joshua v Fury fight a real tough one to call. Fury will be more quickly forgetten if Joshua dominates Klitschko I think.

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Post by AdamT on Sun 09 Apr 2017, 5:30 pm

I agree with you.

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Post by hazharrison on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 7:02 am

The real reason Fury isn't coming back is that UKAD hearing next month. Is that the real reason he's chucked it all in and eaten himself into diabetes?

If it comes back he was full of nandrolone, that would significantly dent his reputation.

I can't see him getting that weight off. He's done.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 8:45 am

I'm no chemist, but why use nandrolone?

There are drugs that work better and clear the system much faster. Apparently nandrolone metabolites stay in the system for ages.

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Post by Derbymanc on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 9:21 am

Boxing doesn't 'NEED' anyone really. There's always fights to be made and it gives us something else to moan about:-). Haven't seen the shape Fury's in now but i'm sure if he wanted to he could get back down to fighting weight. Am not entirely convinced he wants to come back. he upset the apple cart by beating the big man in the division, got very little credit or decent exposure from it (whether you agree or not, it's by the by). with his mental issue's can see how that would affect him deeply, why go through it all again.

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Post by kingraf on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 11:31 am

If Wlad loses to AJ, especially in a blowout, of course Tyson's win gets heavily downgraded. Wladimir's overall all time rating also probably takes an absolute pasting. Needed Vitali to sort out Sanders, ruled over a weak division, and didn't even fight the one guy in the division who could challenge him (never mind that's his brother). Throw in two losses to Next Gen fighters, and it doesn't look pretty
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Post by lfc91 on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 11:42 am

Does it go the other way though? If Wlad beats Joshua does Fury get more credit as he clearly beat a Wlad that had a lot left in the tank?

Or, the more likely option is Joshua becomes the unproven hype job and Fury's win remains in the same category many see it in (Wlad was over the hill/avergae champ in poor era).

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Post by AdamT on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 11:51 am

kingraf wrote:If Wlad loses to AJ, especially in a blowout, of course Tyson's win gets heavily downgraded. Wladimir's overall all time rating also probably takes an absolute pasting. Needed Vitali to sort out Sanders, ruled over a weak division, and didn't even fight the one guy in the division who could challenge him (never mind that's his brother). Throw in two losses to Next Gen fighters, and it doesn't look pretty

Would you fight your brother??

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Post by lfc91 on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 11:57 am

AdamT wrote:
kingraf wrote:If Wlad loses to AJ, especially in a blowout, of course Tyson's win gets heavily downgraded. Wladimir's overall all time rating also probably takes an absolute pasting. Needed Vitali to sort out Sanders, ruled over a weak division, and didn't even fight the one guy in the division who could challenge him (never mind that's his brother). Throw in two losses to Next Gen fighters, and it doesn't look pretty

Would you fight your brother??

Several times yes, think im at about 0-0-5.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 12:05 pm

lol

It would be hard to beat your brother up in front of the whole world, especially if you are close. Some things are more important than money and sport.

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Post by Soldier_Of_Fortune on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 4:17 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Joshua batters Wlad....I imagine Fury's victory becomes less impressive also.

Tends to happen in Boxing.....Wins get diminished in hindsight.

Not sure it is fair mind.

If AJ batters Wlad.........

Heard a few stories now that Dubios and cruiser weight Okolie have both had him down in sparring recently. And the one thing you can say for certain is Wlad carrys lots of power.

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Post by AdamT on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 4:48 pm

I never trust sparring stories, but Wlad might do a Price on him. Imo it's not great for the Hw scene for Wlad to win. Especially after his last showing and current age.

I can't see Wlad winning, not now.

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Post by catchweight on Mon 10 Apr 2017, 10:40 pm

Fury might make a comeback but he looks so far gone now in terms of his conditioning that its hard to see him getting back to where he was. Hes something like 350lbs now. Hes been in and out of shape in his career before but never this bad.

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Post by Guest on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 2:20 am

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Joshua batters Wlad....I imagine Fury's victory becomes less impressive also.

Tends to happen in Boxing.....Wins get diminished in hindsight.

Not sure it is fair mind.

If AJ batters Wlad.........

Heard a few stories now that Dubios and cruiser weight Okolie have both had him down in sparring recently. And the one thing you can say for certain is Wlad carrys lots of power.
Apart from his fight with Dillian Whyte, Joshua hasn't been properly tested.  Rumours from sparring suggests he hasn't got a brilliant chin and will likely go down and not get back up if a big punch lands cleanly on his chin.

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Post by Derbymanc on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 8:35 am

Surely if someone like Dubious was doing as well as they alluded to on Boxnation they'd have kept AJ 100 miles from Wlad?

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Post by kingraf on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:35 am

AdamT wrote:
kingraf wrote:If Wlad loses to AJ, especially in a blowout, of course Tyson's win gets heavily downgraded. Wladimir's overall all time rating also probably takes an absolute pasting. Needed Vitali to sort out Sanders, ruled over a weak division, and didn't even fight the one guy in the division who could challenge him (never mind that's his brother). Throw in two losses to Next Gen fighters, and it doesn't look pretty

Would you fight your brother??

I don't have a brother. So yes Laugh

On a serious note, it's not a knock on him for not fighting Vitali (plus given how shy he was against Tyson, I'm pretty sure 6'8 250lbs Vitali would have walked him down), just relaying what the narrative probably will be if he loses. History is viewed in hindsight
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Post by AdamT on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:44 am

Vitali would lose to Wlad, because he would hold back and Wlad would be a bit quicker to the jab.

If both brothers went all out, Vitali imo would crush him inside 7-8 rounds.

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Tue 11 Apr 2017, 10:24 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:Definitely the win gets diminished in my book no question will show Wlad ruled a weak one first two decent heavies he'd faced in years he couldn't hack it

Joshua /Wilder I like too

Wlad lost to fury when wlad was nearly 40 years old. He is now 41 and been out of the ring for nearly 2 years so him losing to Joshua does nothing to suggest that he was only the champ because the HW scene was weak.

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Post by Herman Jaeger on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 9:58 am

Musclular-mouse wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Definitely the win gets diminished in my book no question will show Wlad ruled a weak one first two decent heavies he'd faced in years he couldn't hack it

Joshua /Wilder I like too

Wlad lost to fury when wlad was nearly 40 years old. He is now 41 and been out of the ring for nearly 2 years so him losing to Joshua does nothing to suggest that he was only the champ because the HW scene was weak.


Losing to Fury and Joshua doesn't definitively prove Wlad ruled a weak division that's true maybe he was just old and past his best his fans might argue

But to be honest I saw no deterioration prior to his loss to Fury and he looked very ordinary in that fight despite everyone predicting he would beat Fury comfortably..

I also believe Fury and Joshua would beat everything Wlad beat during his reign

I'm very ok with anyone calling it a weak division but were Wlad to beat Joshua it'll do wonders for his legacy and how he will be remembered coz people will then be able to say he had longevity and it wasn't such a weak division after all was weak for the most part but got tougher during the latter part of his reign Fury was just his bogeyman

Can't see Wlad beating Joshua though not without a dodgy canvas anyway just too slow

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Post by Muscular-mouse on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 12:51 pm

Herman Jaeger wrote:
Musclular-mouse wrote:
Herman Jaeger wrote:Definitely the win gets diminished in my book no question will show Wlad ruled a weak one first two decent heavies he'd faced in years he couldn't hack it

Joshua /Wilder I like too

Wlad lost to fury when wlad was nearly 40 years old. He is now 41 and been out of the ring for nearly 2 years so him losing to Joshua does nothing to suggest that he was only the champ because the HW scene was weak.


Losing to Fury and Joshua doesn't definitively prove Wlad ruled a weak division that's true maybe he was just old and past his best his fans might argue

But to be honest I saw no deterioration prior to his loss to Fury and he looked very ordinary in that fight despite everyone predicting he would beat Fury comfortably..

I also believe Fury and Joshua would beat everything Wlad beat during his reign

I'm very ok with anyone calling it a weak division but were Wlad to beat Joshua it'll do wonders for his legacy and how he will be remembered coz people will then be able to say he had longevity and it wasn't such a weak division after all was weak for the most part but got tougher during the latter part of his reign Fury was just his bogeyman

Can't see Wlad beating Joshua though not without a dodgy canvas anyway just too slow

I think klitschko started to show his age against Jennings. He looked very slow.

I don't think fury or Joshua would beat anything wlad beat. I think an in form 2011 david haye beats a 2017 Joshua. I also think pulev and povetkin would be very close.

Me personally I am going to bet money on klitschko to beat Joshua. Even though I think Joshua is the favourite due to wlad being out of the ring for 2 years and being 41, getting odds of 3-1 for a wlad victory is too good considering the level of opposition Joshua has faced and the dominance of wlad.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 3:46 pm

Soldier_Of_Fortune wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:If Joshua batters Wlad....I imagine Fury's victory becomes less impressive also.

Tends to happen in Boxing.....Wins get diminished in hindsight.

Not sure it is fair mind.

If AJ batters Wlad.........

Heard a few stories now that Dubios and cruiser weight Okolie have both had him down in sparring recently. And the one thing you can say for certain is Wlad carrys lots of power.

There's a Bruno like quality to Joshua...When he got caught by Whyte he staggered like big Frank to the ropes and was there for a more clinical operator. He didn't spoil like a Holmes..Always thought Holmes had a wonderful survival instinct...You can't teach survival instinct as Amir has found out.

Back to Joshua he showed decent speed against Whyte...

I'd love Wlad to test him but he seems made for Joshua..

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Post by AdamT on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 4:47 pm

Sure you don't watch boxing?

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 5:02 pm

In all seriousness, what are your predictions for this fight?

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Post by AdamT on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 5:10 pm

Me?

I think Joshua, but it will be cagey.

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Post by mobilemaster8 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:18 pm

Yeh I'm on the fence. Can either see Klitschko late stoppage or wide points.....But can see a blowout in 3 from AJ.

I'm going Klitschko if i had to bet

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Post by AdamT on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:58 pm

I'm edging to Joshua. I was on the Aj blow out train, but he's too green to win easy.

I think this fight will have a low out put and Joshua being a bit more hungry.

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