Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Need to get Stokes out of the attack here he's bowling utter tripe

[alfie]

But not before he gets the wicket of Finch , eh , Olly

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

But not before he gets the wicket of Finch , eh , Olly

Just call me Trebs

[alfie]

Understating it to say England needed that wicket...

I give some credit to Rashid for that wicket - he's worried Finch so much over the last few overs that he's gone for a big shot when he didn't really need to. In fact Rashid has been excellent so far.

But I think I would get Stokes off now : try a bit of Moeen perhaps ?

Australia scoring freely and look on for 350 ; but I'm not sure their later order is as solid as it might be so wickets could change things around quickly...

[alfie]

Henriques was looking good ...but he gives Rashid the wicket he deserved (albeit rather softly)

163/3 after 28 still suggests a huge total ; but the wickets are giving England a possible way back into this...

[VTR]

Sounds like our bowling has mainly been bowocks this morning. Clearly getting the bad performance out of the way before the knock outs. Good strategy

[Dolphin Ziggler]

BYE BYE SMITHY!

[alfie]

Good move from Morgan to bring back Wood ...

Big wicket

Next patch will be decisive : Head , Maxwell , Wade...more wickets now and the chase might not be so high : but if these two get going...

[KP_fan]

Looks like a talent, shame he will probably never get many chances to test himself at a higher level. How bad for the Windies though, not in the CT so instead playing and getting pummelled by Afghanistan. Arguably a new low for them

 
they are world cup champions in T20

that the "market segment" that they focus on.....and are good in it.
Their Principles are clear


Meanwhile on the game.....Smith gone....one wicket too many at this stage and this will pull Aaus back from a 330 aspiration to a somehow get past 300
unless Maxwell plays one his blinders

[alfie]

Sounds like our bowling has mainly been bowocks this morning. Clearly getting the bad performance out of the way before the knock outs. Good strategy

Nothing wrong with the bowling of Wood - he's been excellent ; and Rashid and Plunkett have been all right too. Ball and Stokes have been expensive , but I think it has been more the fact that they've come up against a strong top order who have taken advantage of good batting conditions. We always knew the bowling was England's weaker suit...hopefully the batting will make up for it again.

[KP_fan]

Ball is nibbling off the pitch and also climbing a bit and hitting the splice for those who can bend the back and dig it in....

300 would not be a bad total

[alfie]

Ball is nibbling off the pitch and also climbing a bit and hitting the splice for those who can bend the back and dig it in....

300 would not be a bad total

True. Couple keeping low too from the spinners : don't think England will relish chasing anything over 300 . Really need to get another wicket or two soon or they'll be looking at more than that.

Australia definitely on top again here.

[KP_fan]

Maxwell has seen himself in......gauged the pace of pitch and attack...now time for him to pay back

To aus's credit...every one of their batsman has scored some runs....preventing even a mini collpase


head is using the forehand cross-court to good effect

[Dolphin Ziggler]

GONE! Could have been a big drop, ended up not at all a worry

[alfie]

Wow !

For a moment I thought Plunkett had just "dropped the Champions Trophy" ... and then Roy pulls off a great boundary catch

Maybe that's why they kept him in the team

Not job done yet : Wade can bat too ; but nice to rid of Maxwell.

[KP_fan]

that was fielding / catching brilliance of the modern era ......Maxwell goes without paying back the time he ate for get set

[KP_fan]

they should get to 300...the 320 has gone out of grasp with the fall of Maxwell

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Now Wade, Rashid ties him up. 245-6

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Full toss sliced up into the air, and held. Starc gone for 0. That 300 not looking so likely now!

[KP_fan]

Head is technically a slogger......hitting across the line.....ugly batting.....but effective so far.....he has to marshal the lower order to whatever they can muster now

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Rashid gets another! 4-41 as he finishes up. 253-8, Cummins gone.

[alfie]

Ah the wonderful miracle that is wrist-spin ...even the rubbish balls get wickets

Not that Rashid has bowled much rubbish today : he's been excellent ...and as I type he has another

Eight down ! Australia collapsing...

[alfie]

And four for the excellent Wood too...

254/9 not what it looked like being half an hour ago !

[Dolphin Ziggler]

Plunkett hates catches

[alfie]

Head salvaging a score here for Australia...two sixes , two missed catches ...added vital runs , will be 280 rather than 260

Might be crucial later ?

OK , 277.

England will be delighted to have pegged them back after that position at thirty overs or so. But this isn't a complete road so nothing can be guaranteed. Good batting probably gets it ; but it will need to be good as Australia's bowling is pretty handy.

[KP_fan]

the 90mph hit the deck hard mixed with yorkers.....and the leggie gets you wickets in all forms and all pitches

Aus have a fighting total on the board.....

per my wish script if they lose ...will set up BD-Ind semis potentially 

[alfie]

the 90mph hit the deck hard mixed with yorkers.....and the leggie gets you wickets in all forms and all pitches

Aus have a fighting total on the board.....

per my wish script if they lose ...will set up BD-Ind semis potentially 

Assuming India can beat SA

Hope you're right though , KP_f

[robbo277]

Very good by England, especially Rashid and Wood. Will we see either feature in the test team over the summer?

[alfie]

Got out of the shower in time to see Roy out and wasting the review ...

Sorry : but keeping him in the side is damned silly , stubborn and may yet cost England the trophy. Great catch today ; but otherwise he's been a complete waste of space.

[jimbohammers]

Getting hard to watch now

[alfie]

Very good by England, especially Rashid and Wood. Will we see either feature in the test team over the summer?

Certainly Wood ; possibly Rashid for some games - depends a lot on the pitches.

[KP_fan]

6-2....ouch

[alfie]

This is going to test England's depth of batting...

[alfie]

Root gone now...

Australia just about have this one in the bag. I hope this is just England having an off day in a game they don't have to win...because it is looking like that third match against SA all over again

Rain : will there be enough to save the home team ?

[KP_fan]

what if the game is rained out?
 Aus and BD would be at 3 points each

and if it is played...how many runs does Aus need to beat Eng by to top the table

[VTR]

Agree with Alfie on Roy. He has got to go from the side, it's a free wicket for the opposition. He will be back in the future but now it's just painful and wasting a review in the process today

[alfie]

what if the game is rained out?
 Aus and BD would be at 3 points each

and if it is played...how many runs does Aus need to beat Eng by to top the table

I understand that the rather odd rules for this tournament dictate that if Aus and BD are both on three points , Bangladesh would advance because they have one win to Australia's none.
And if Australia win this , England stay top for the same reason (2 wins against one ) regardless of run rates.

A little odd , as I say.

[alfie]

Morgan has got his six hitting working well today...that one was a monster !

England getting a bit of a cushion over the Duckworth-Lewis target at the moment...though we may well see the rain hold off long enough for this to go the distance.
Not counting chickens yet : we've seen NZ and Australia fold from this sort of position in the last week ...but this has been a tremendous partnership .

Worthy of Shakib and Mamadulla

[alfie]

Aargh...

Silly run out

Just when they had Australia on the ropes...

That was probably the only way they were going to be separated. Good throw , mind. Zampa better with that than his bowling.

Buttler in now. Hope he can carry on from the other day...

[Gooseberry]

No worries in the end. Likely the Aussies will bitch about rain but they were well behind in their first game and England were way ahead of dl on that.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

No worries in the end. Likely the Aussies will bitch about rain but they were well behind in their first game and England were way ahead of dl on that.

The rain has saved them the embarrassment of being knocked out on completed games most likely - England needed 38 off 9.4 overs with their two most explosive batsmen set, one with a century to his name. Picking Henriques at 4 instead of Chris Lynn an utterly, utterly baffling selection from the Aussies

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

As for England, they motor on - Wood and Rashid magnificent, Rashid in particular today was bowling beautifully from ball one - troubled all the batsmen with his wrong uns.

The Roy question remains - I see both sides of the argument. Do you want to change an undefeated, unbeaten side that has dominated the world ODI scene since the past world cup? Or do you give the guy woefully out of nick a break? Has Bairstow now sat on the sidelines for too long to come in (ie. has he lost some batting rhythm?).

I personally think we've reached a point where we stick with the undefeated side, and whatever will be will be. Ultimately, we should be good enough to beat either SL or Pakistan in Cardiff whoever plays.

India-South Africa tomorrow is going to be a heck of a tasty affair. If I were India I would be slightly worried neither De Kock or ABDV have fired yet...neither has barren spells for too long....

[Gooseberry]

Just popping by to gloat.

Roys place surely has to be questioned. Bairstow has a right to be aggreived

[GSC]

Still feel for Aus to an extent, rain is a lottery, and Bangla the big winners of it.

Imagine you won't change the team now

[KP_fan]

BD was in my list to watch out for for a s.f slot.....extremely improved side.......with a much improved ODI win percentage over their last 30 games 

and have won tests vs Eng at home and vs NZ in NZ this season

my wish-script

BD win today
Eng beat Aus
Ind beats SA
Lanka beats Pak

India beats BD in semis
Lanka beats Eng in semis

India beats Lanka, wins the cup and avenges the defeat 

So far the first two wishes have gone to script....

Red Hot Eng blast Aus out .....on a day when leg-spinning  Rashid(s) picked 11 wickets in 19 overs of leg spin for only 59 runs

Is it only my perception that Stokes is focusing more on his batting and much less on his bowling and doesn't look that threatening....although he bowled great spells in 2 or 3 of IPL games.

 an India-BD semi-final on cards should India get past SA tomm
there are many indications that India might play Ashwin tomm....how will they fit him in...we'll have to wait and see

[KO-KING]

Stokes is not a 10 over bowler, he's a 5 over wicket taking partnership breaker...

Hope India get knocked out, that'll make England firm favourites

[alfie]

Great batting recovery to win that

Aussies no complaints as it was clear England were winning that rain or no ...38 more runs with six in hand and part time bowlers due to bowl some of the remaining overs. On balance the right two teams progress from the group : both Australia and NZ paid for picking bits and pieces players instead of a proper batting lineup.

On selection : Morgan may still say "keep a winning team " ; but that is sentimental rubbish my view and negates the whole point of having a squad. Was worth giving Roy every chance to regain some form but enough is enough...the argument that he might come good and play a match winning innings is flawed : he might ; but by winning consistently the team is showing such a contribution isn't needed - the batting has enough firepower ; so surely the insurance against a rare collapse that might be provided by the in-form Bairstow is a far more useful asset ?

Besides : after this most recent example of The Power of the Ginger , adding Bairstow to the mix will surely render England invincible

[guildfordbat]

Despite my being labelled (understandably) a ''Roy boy'' in the past, I agree with Alfie. Support for Roy is one thing but any further declarations of faith in the Surrey opener now from Morgan will come mighty close to being seen as ''we have no confidence in Bairstow''.

Purely as an aside, I loved watching Roy's catch yesterday on the highlights programme. Lot of work went into that. I've seen him practice that sort of juggling take quite a bit at the Oval.

[Gooseberry]

All I can do is look back to my previous posts regarding Moeen and him hitting a big score off the back of it.
He's reverted to passenger since mind.

But as we said before Roys recent form is a different thing to his long term ability. In a limited tournament when you have a guy of equal potential on the bench who has shown recent world class form it seems insane not to use him. Almost disrespectful to the opposition to say we only need 10 men to win....even if it's true.


Regarding Stokes....hes always been a hit and miss player with bat and ball. For every match winning performance there's several where he adds little. But he's become good enough with all 3 disciplines to be more than a luxury player.
I'm not sure he is focussing on one over the other personally, certainly in IPL he did more with ball than bat. That said in ODIs his position in the batting order and tendency to be 4th seamer does suggest the side relies on his batting more than his bowling. But don't forget he's used as an impact player both as a bowler and a fielder.
He's certainly more than a 5 over bowler, it's Moeen who's in that space on home pitches with Rashid in the side.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Will be interesting to see if India go with Ashwin instead of a seamer as KP_F mentions above - South Africa struggled against the Pakistani spinners, and the Indian seamers got carted by Sri Lanka at this ground a few days ago - I'd imagine he would come in for Bumrah if he did play?

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