RG - Day 11

by sirfredperry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:40 am

First topic message reminder :

Due to Tuesday's rain, all four men's Q-F are scheduled for today plus two women's quarters. Bacsinszky took out Mladenovic yesterday and will face Ostapenko in the semis after the teenager overpowered Caroline W.
Rafa, Novak, Andy and The Man to come through. Reckon Halep and Pliskova will reach the semis, with the winner of that one likely to take the title.
Should Rafa win his 10th RG he would, I think, be on course to recapture the number one spot, particularly if he did well at Wimbledon. But should Djoko upset Nadal and then have a good Wimbledon then he might dislodge Andy.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:04 pm

WOW

I had an hour meeting with my boss. I come out and Novak has been pummelled

I'll tell you what. Theim really could beat Rafa.

by slashermcguirk Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:04 pm

No Name Bertie, far from it being toys out of the pram. This has been a continuous demise for a year now. You can clearly see he is mentally all over the place. I genuinely think he has achieved all he wanted from the game and now the game is up.

He doesnt have the game or the hunger anymore. Years of competing at the very top have taken their toll and he may have other distractions off the court.

No shame in hanging up the racket now, better to bow out gracefully. He may see how the rest of the year pans out but if he backs this up with a woeful Wimbledon and us open, for me he should hang up the racket

by sirfredperry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:14 pm

Agassi dropped to 141 in the world in 1997 and decided to play two challengers. I think he won one of them and got to the final of the other. Finished the year at 122.
Next season he was back in the top 10 and in 1999 he won the French and the USO and got back to number one, aged 29. So anything's possible.
Even when Djoko was a double break down in that last set today I expected him to fight back. But he just seemed to capitulate.
I think he should try to play at least one grass court tournament before Wimbledon and hope to return to winning ways. He has little to defend at SW19 and it would be good for the competitiveness of the tour if he got back to something approaching his best.

by slashermcguirk Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:28 pm

Haddie Nuff, yes that had occurred to me. That is part of what is contributing to his lousy form. He clearly has other issues in his life and tennis is no longer the priority it once was. I am not blaming the guy, as I said I think he has achieved more than probably he or anyone else expected. Its not like the guy if he retired would look back with regret on his tennis career !!

What I am saying is if his form doesn't improve during the rest of 2017, my own opinion would be to consider calling it a day ahead of 2018. Maybe he will surprise us and come back strong but for me this has been a steady decline for a year now. He still produces some great moments but his trademark consistency is gone and he has become so passive. That comes down to confidence

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 1:53 pm

Thanks for that information Sir Fred Perry.

To slashermcguirk - Djokovic will decide. It doesn't matter what you advise or what I say. You may decide to not watch Djokovic - but it's his decision - we should respect it whatever it is.

But as I keep saying I can't get my head around Djokovic sacking his entire coaching staff this late in the day after it brought him so much success. One would think if he wanted to return to winning ways - he should just re-employ that coaching team and do everything he was doing before he had this slump.

by slashermcguirk Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:05 pm

The big surprise for me was getting rid of Marian Vajda, to me that was a big mistake. There is the guy that had seen Novak through all stages of his professional career and knew his game better than anybody. I kind of expected him to part ways with Becker as they had already achieved a lot and there is only so long a guy like Becker is going to hang around in a job like that.

I think Agassi will need to be given more of a chance but maybe if Novak takes Vajda back and he manages to get a couple of good wins against top opponents, there may yet be hope. There have been a few performances this year like the win over Murray in Doha, Thiem win in Rome, last 2 sets vs Ramos Vinolas where Novak produced some very good tennis.

However, he now really struggles to back it up in the next match. The other area I have observed is his serve, for me Novak is getting far less free points on it. The speed of his first serve seems to have dropped and he used to be able to win quite a good % on his second serve.

Maybe I am just surprised by how poor Novak was today, I thought in the his last match he was showing more encouraging signs but then it was like 1 step forward and about 5 steps back today.

Anyway time will tell, he has proved me wrong in the past so maybe he will do so again. I hope I am wrong!

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:13 pm

Mentally is where his mind is mashed. His thought processes have gone AWOL as well as a few other things. Axing the coaches (many of whom had worked with him for many years was highly questionable). Now I may be barking totally up the wrong tree here but things seem to have gotten worse from shortly after he brought this guru on board. Anyone have any info on him? Novak seems to have put a lot of stock in his value, more even than people who had been with him many years and yet he sticks with him. What has he given to Novak in terms of improvement? I think quite the opposite is evident. My instinct says the guru should have been axed and not the coaches.

by Guest82 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:35 pm

Really pleased for Thiem. He's probably my favourite player so I really hope he can go on and win the title.

I'd love a Thiem v Wawrinka final...that would be a shot making dream.

by Guest82 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:37 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:The big surprise for me was getting rid of Marian Vajda, to me that was a big mistake. There is the guy that had seen Novak through all stages of his professional career and knew his game better than anybody. I kind of expected him to part ways with Becker as they had already achieved a lot and there is only so long a guy like Becker is going to hang around in a job like that.

I think Agassi will need to be given more of a chance but maybe if Novak takes Vajda back and he manages to get a couple of good wins against top opponents, there may yet be hope. There have been a few performances this year like the win over Murray in Doha, Thiem win in Rome, last 2 sets vs Ramos Vinolas where Novak produced some very good tennis.

However, he now really struggles to back it up in the next match. The other area I have observed is his serve, for me Novak is getting far less free points on it. The speed of his first serve seems to have dropped and he used to be able to win quite a good % on his second serve.

Maybe I am just surprised by how poor Novak was today, I thought in the his last match he was showing more encouraging signs but then it was like 1 step forward and about 5 steps back today.

Anyway time will tell, he has proved me wrong in the past so maybe he will do so again. I hope I am wrong!

I listened to a podcast the other day and they said Djokovic's backhand was the problem. He was making something like 10% more errors on standard shots and 20% more errors when out wide on the backhand. Also his mph and spin rate was 10-20% down on last year.

That's a massive difference to what was probably the most secure shot in tennis.

by sirfredperry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 2:56 pm

Andy M and Nishi are going to have to wait to come on as Svitolina wasted a 5-1 second set lead to be taken to a final set by Halep.
I see that Djoko, in his post-match interview, was saying the top guys had had lean spells which they had come out of and he was going to have to try to do the same.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 3:05 pm

Sorry got wrong court there. You are correct SirFred.

by Jermaine2015 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 3:07 pm

Was I really watching Djokovic earlier? I mean he embarrassed Thiem 6-0 6-1 not that long ago. Thiem essentially just tries to hit the ball as hard as he can all the time. The type of match up Djokovic dines out on. Djokovic seemed to capitulate after giving away the first set. I'm not Djokovic's biggest fan but he shouldn't go from from being unbeatable to this within a year.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:02 pm

Nish on the warpath. That first set last round really was an odd one. He's been on fire since

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:19 pm

Last years finalists and the current 1 and 2 ranked players in world could be both out in straight sets in the quarter-finals.

In the Australian Open 2017 neither reached the quarter finals. So I suppose that represents some progress.

by **JuliusHMarx** Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:36 pm

Carlos Ramos gave Murray a time violation.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:36 pm

Now Murray has found his battle standard and storming to the second

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:36 pm

And Murray didn't sound too pleased about it

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 4:49 pm

This fo is looking more open today. Stan, theim and Rafa are all in fine fettle

These 2 are fighting hard too

by Guest82 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:12 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Carlos Ramos gave Murray a time violation.

Murray should not have him umpiring any more of his matches. He's clearly picking on Murray here.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:23 pm

So Stan looking just as impressive as Rafa tbh. It will be a dogfight these semis i reckon

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:29 pm

Topsy turvy set

This is like when muzz used to play ferrer. Lots of breaks

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:34 pm

A less topsy turvy tiebreak...

by Haddie-nuff Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:42 pm

Guest82 wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Carlos Ramos gave Murray a time violation.

Murray should not have him umpiring any more of his matches. He's clearly picking on Murray here.

Don't be petty Guest it doesn't suit you.. Rolling Eyes

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:56 pm

Is anyone actually watching the tennis?

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:56 pm

temporary21 wrote:Is anyone actually watching the tennis?

Yup.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:57 pm

Thank god

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:58 pm

I'll be delighted if Murray wins here and reaches the semis temp. Considering expectations were so low coming in this was all about rediscovering some form and I'd certainly say he'd done that going into the grass court season.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 5:59 pm

Of course it also protects a fair chunk of the points he won here last year as well.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:00 pm

He also has no competition from Novak now.

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:01 pm

I am now listening on Roland Garros radio - this seems to be a good effort from Murray.

The third set seems to have been the crucial set.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:01 pm

temporary21 wrote:He also has no competition from Novak now.

At present the real threat on the rankings front has now become Rafa Nadal.

by slashermcguirk Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:01 pm

Nishikori has to be the worst server ever. For me he is one of the most talented players on tour, has every shot in the book and yet cannot serve. How does his coach not see this and think, this is the area for improvement in his game. Every year the same story.......he seems to never get free points. He has broken Murray countless times and then keeps getting broken straight back.

I am convinced if Nishikori learned to serve properly he would definitely win a slam or more. I just find it amazing that year after year his serve remains so poor

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:04 pm

To be fair he's too short to have a really good one

Actually the best serve from a short player I've seen was Justine Henin

That had gas

I miss Justine...

by banbrotam Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:07 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:I hear what you are saying CC but to me Djokovics problems run deeper. He looks so passive on the court, he goes mentally walkabouts all the time. His game has become so passive, when I think of the level he was at playing Oz open last year when he utterly destroyed Federer and then beat Murray in the final. Even the US open final performance against Federer, there was so much conviction in all his shots and he just never gave up.

Now he to me looks like a guy that wants to be anywhere but the court. I genuinely believe his passion is gone and he has now turned 30. I know Federer is a freak but how many players seem to decline at that magic number. Even look at Murray this year all of a sudden.

I am happy for Thiem as he is a great player to watch and he seems a nice bloke. I really struggle to see a way back for Novak and for a great player like that, its not about playing to make up the numbers. If he genuinely believes he cannot win, you know its time to leave the stage.

To me he doesn't look willing to put the hours in on the practise court, he could probably have gotten away with it in the past but now his level has really dropped.

Its a shame as I thought in his 4th round match he played some good tennis in the last 2 sets but today it was like watching a hacker in your local club. Really sad to watch

The worrying thing is that Novak didn't even seem bothered. One thing I've loved about the last ten years of Tennis is his and Murray's 'up yours' snarling brand of Tennis, which Novak has excelled at. Their mission to shake up the cozy world of Fedal was one of the best things about this great sport

But I don't see much of a comeback. I said that I didn't think he'd win a slam this year - he has to go back to that 'mean spirited' (I mean in a good way) and I simply don't see it. Problem is, unlike any of the other four - his game was all about that

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:08 pm

Well done to Andy Murray. After losing the first set 6-2 and then having a tough third set - he has done well. Next up Wawrinka. This semi-final line up seems strong. Thiem has really stepped up from the other challengers during this clay court season. Something seems to have clicked with him.

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:08 pm

Murray marches on to Stan the man, who i fancy to make the final and make it very tough for Rafa maybe

Great comeback win from Andy. Grinding his way back and showing he's worthy of his seed

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:10 pm

Andy Murray through to his 21st slam semi-final. Very Happy

Considering his form coming in then he's done excellently to get this far. For me anything else would be a huge bonus.

by slashermcguirk Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:14 pm

I kind of hope Thiem wins the tournament now. Still cannot see past Nadal though..........unless Wawrinka produces tennis from the Gods. As much as Thiem has improved (Which is a lot!) I just don't see him taking three sets off Nadal and I can see Nadal grinding him down. I think Thiem will give him a tough time for a couple of sets but will then fade.

Wawrinka has the fire power (like Soderling) to beat Nadal on this court but he blows so hot and cold and again it comes down to winning 3 sets against Rafa on this court. Just so difficult to do, what are the odds if stan reaches the final of doing that for such a sustained period. he would need a performance like the one he had against Novak to win that French final.

As for Murray, he has shown really big improvement over the past week or so. However Nadal has always been a bad match up for him and their previous matches at the French I think were both straight sets. I think Murray has the most patience of the three remaining players but he doesn't have the same fire power.

by banbrotam Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:17 pm

Even if Andy gets beaten by Stan and Rafa wins the event, provided Andy matches Rafa's performances at Queen's he'll still be No.1 after Wimbledon

Could be one of the lowest points ever for No.1 and I sure some will comment on that Rolling Eyes

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:18 pm

Tbf. Stan must be second favourite. He's playing more than well enough

by banbrotam Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:19 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:I kind of hope Thiem wins the tournament now. Still cannot see past Nadal though..........unless Wawrinka produces tennis from the Gods. As much as Thiem has improved (Which is a lot!) I just don't see him taking three sets off Nadal and I can see Nadal grinding him down. I think Thiem will give him a tough time for a couple of sets but will then fade.

Wawrinka has the fire power (like Soderling) to beat Nadal on this court but he blows so hot and cold and again it comes down to winning 3 sets against Rafa on this court. Just so difficult to do, what are the odds if stan reaches the final of doing that for such a sustained period. he would need a performance like the one he had against Novak to win that French final.

As for Murray, he has shown really big improvement over the past week or so. However Nadal has always been a bad match up for him and their previous matches at the French I think were both straight sets. I think Murray has the most patience of the three remaining players but he doesn't have the same fire power.

Very difficult to see beyond Rafa, but Andy is probably at his most capable he's ever been at taking him on

by banbrotam Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:21 pm

temporary21 wrote:Tbf. Stan must be second favourite. He's playing more than well enough

Same thing was said last year

It's about match up's and when Andy's on his game, it's a bad one for Stan as he's the best player in the world at withstanding a battering from players with power

I think Andy will win on Friday

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:21 pm

banbrotam wrote:Even if Andy gets beaten by Stan and Rafa wins the event, provided Andy matches Rafa's performances at Queen's he'll still be No.1 after Wimbledon

Could be one of the lowest points ever for No.1 and I sure some will comment on that

Well they would be very much wrong. Hewitt remained at No 1 for 75 weeks (I think it was) with hardly a plethora of tournament wins and career stats that don't match up to Andy but hey ho some will try and comment as you say banbro. thumbsup

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:23 pm

If Murray keeps playing strong over the next three years he could win the Australian Open and the French Open and so complete the set.

by CaledonianCraig Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:24 pm

The key for the tournament now is how Rafa responds when he is truly pressurised in a set and if he drops a set how he will respond. That little doubt aside I stand by my forecast from a couple or three months ago that Rafa would win the French Open.

by Haddie-nuff Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:25 pm

I wish I could say I cant see beyond Rafa it takes Thiem to produce his A Game and he could , do it imo: shock:

by Guest Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:27 pm

Thinking about it, apart from disappointment at the US Open 2016 and Aus Open 2017, Murray has had an astonishing past two and a half years - winning the Davis Cup, another Olympic Gold, Wimbledon, the end of year ATP event, getting to number 1, getting to the final of the French Open. It has been quite astonishing. It is so easy to forget all this.

by banbrotam Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:30 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:The key for the tournament now is how Rafa responds when he is truly pressurised in a set and if he drops a set how he will respond. That little doubt aside I stand by my forecast from a couple or three months ago that Rafa would win the French Open.

Good point. It's a while since Rafa won a slam and that's bound to raise a slight question mark on the day

Amazing to think that Stan or Andy, will be players more used to winning recent slams than Rafa - but there you have it

by temporary21 Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:34 pm

He has had a phenomenal few years

Not that he gets any credit for it

by sirfredperry Wed 07 Jun 2017, 6:40 pm

A good win by Andy, especially as he went a set down. He and Umpire Ramos rarely see eye to eye but the first-serve penalty for slow play early in the second set seemed to galvanise Andy and depress Kei who started to spray UEs around.
It must be very difficult to play Nishi. He can seemingly hit winners from anywhere. But as has rightly been said above, his serve is a liability. He got 25% of first serves in in one of the sets today.
Most will have The Man as favourite in the semi. Murray was magnificent in beating the Swiss at RG last year, but Wawrinka looks good this year. Still been a good French for the Scot, whatever happens on Friday, with the 720 points particularly welcome after a slow start to the season.

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