PGA Tour: South of the Border: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).The Tour travels south of the border this week, from Las Vegas to Mayakoba, the 6th of 7 autumn events before the "Holidays" break.
We also have the final action of the Champions Tour season, and the continuation of Stage 2 web.com Q-School.

2).A funny old finish to last week's Shriners Las Vegas Open; strong winds which were widely forecast for Sunday's play stayed away until the final few holes, by which time it looked as if the winning score from golf's young guns would be about 12 under par. Alex Cejka posted an early 9 under, then hung around as a breeze finally picked up and the leaders fell apart, leaking oil, hubcaps flying, wheels well and truly off; all of which may have caused the dozens of multiple winners in the field to wonder why their leaderboard-experience had been wasted.
Eventually Cantlay joined Whee Kim and Cejka in a yawn of a play-off, winning with the only par in, collectively, six holes.

3).Cantlay burst onto the scene six years ago with top 25 finishes in each of the first four Tour events he played, including a second round 60 at The Travelers. Playing sporadically he reached 176th in the 2013 owgr's but injuries dogged him thereafter until he returned with a vengeance last season.
He's up to 42 in the world rankings now and will continue a meteoric rise up the owgr charts, very likely to be a Top Ten golfer by the end of 2018 as his tournaments-played "divisor" is still only 14. (By comparison Rahm's divisor is 37.)
Perhaps by then he'll've learned to make it look as if he's enjoying himself.

4).Graeme McDowell registered his first Top Ten (just, T10) for fifteen months, hopefully the sign of better things to come as he returns to Mayakoba where he won in 2015.

5).robopz mentioned the apparent "futility" of Thomas Pieters' work in the Far East, no Top 25's in his first three tournaments as a PGA Tour member. But he DID register 3 starts . . . . . . all in limited field events!
So, how are the newly minted double dippers doing, as measured by FedEx Cup points in a season when 400 points (and probably a few less) will secure membership for another season?:
196 pts: Casey (in 3 tournaments)
175: Uihlein (3) (Assume he'll keep his ET card as long as it doesn't impair his ability to compete in the US.)
67: Hatton (1)
48: Fleetwood (1)
42: Pieters (3)
27: Noren (1)
6: Fisher (1)

6).San Diego natives, both getting on in years by Tour standards, won two of the last three "OHL Classics" at Mayakoba.
Charlie Hoffman & Pat Perez have both enjoyed a late-career resurgence since, including a further win apiece. Hoffman's earned over $9M in the last three years since his win, whilst Perez has banked more than $5M in the last 12 months.
The Greg Norman-designed course receives good reviews so perhaps it's a little surprising that more top players don't escape to Playa Del Carmen. But Rickie Fowler DID make the trip; perhaps in response to the requirement that pros compete in an event they don't usually play in?

7).Bernhard Langer is going for a hat-trick of Play-Off wins at Phoenix CC, site of the season-ending Charles Schwab Cup Championship. Amazingly, St.Bernhard has never anchored this particular tournament but is going for his fourth Cup, fifth in all, and each coming with a $1M annuity. He's a machine.

8).Finally, Tiger Woods is giving the game away a little as he advocates the Golf powers that be to rein in the distance achieved by the golf ball. Seems he's spent time next to Justin Thomas on the driving range, realised he can't compete for the distance that's becoming commonplace on today's PGA Tour. Can you imagine an in-his-prime Tiger suggesting such a thing? No, thought not!

Kwini wrote:

Padraig Harrington also plays the RSM - I need help here. What's the reason he's not qualified for Dubai? He's won about 640K Euros after all, yet he's ranked with 311K Euros in 117th place.

I can’t answer that question with any certainty but even if all his points counted he would still be 68th. As Pedro said it’s only top 60 available.
He’s got 640,000 points but only 311,000 euros, or something like that.

Looks like prizemoney to me:

http://www.europeantour.com/europeantour/players/playerid=293/results/index.html

Might well be he's got 311K Points but 640K Euros, but I can't find the points/euros translation. But 2 x 4th place finishes in prestigious Rolex events is pretty good . . . . . .

Kwini. On my EuropeanTour App it shows 310000 Euros and 640,000 points. The difference is that they haven’t added in his two last tournament winnings. Turkey and SA.

kwinigolfer wrote:Grayson Murray making an ass of himself on twitter again, slagging off the Champions Tour. What a moron. Good that he's getting ripped. Again.

But he has a point re the Schwab Cup. A player whose last win was in 2002 runs away with it, yet the guy with 2 playoff wins and 7 wins this season comes up short. I know it’s the whole idea about having a playoff but it doesn’t feel completely right.

pedro wrote:

kwinigolfer wrote:Grayson Murray making an ass of himself on twitter again, slagging off the Champions Tour. What a moron. Good that he's getting ripped. Again.

But he has a point re the Schwab Cup. A player whose last win was in 2002 runs away with it, yet the guy with 2 playoff wins and 7 wins this season comes up short. I know it’s the whole idea about having a playoff but it doesn’t feel completely right.

Agree with that, pedro, but I don't think that's what he was twittering about - more about the irrelevancy of players who are ten years past their shelf date and resentment at a perception that the PGA Tour subsidises the Seniors.
The first point is a totally different issue - if fans are interested, then there's a market. No idea about the second, subsidy, point - imagine he's partly right but really have no idea.

Stupid thing is, he's biting the hand that he might want to feed him in 25 years time. I watch the Seniors on TV and quite enjoy it - great golf and shot-making even though the players are obviously not in their prime.

He's a berk.

I bet he’ll be playing in Europe or Asia in 25 years time...

pedro wrote:I bet he’ll be playing in Europe or Asia in 25 years time...

Doubt he'd qualify. Better for everyone that he stays here, with walls to keep him in.

He'd have to get a passport first.

According to Golf Digest, Shotrock's Aronimink will be awarded the 2027 PGA Championship in an announcement later Tuesday:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/report-aronimink-to-host-27-pga-championship-20-womens-pga


The PGA schedule now looks like:

2018: Bellerive, St.Louis
2019: Bethpage, NY
2020: Harding Park, San Francisco
2021: Kiawah Island, SC
2022: Bedminster Landfill, NJ
2023: Oak Hill, Rochester, NY
2024: Valhalla, Loiusville
2027: Aronimink, Philadelphia
2028: Olympic Club, San Francisco

And we know that Tulsa's Southern Hills will host the PGA sometime in the next dozen or so years.
Rather looks as if the PGA's "trial balloon" floated about an overseas venue is becoming deflated.

super_realist wrote:He'd have to get a passport first.

No Passport? My, how did he play in Malaysia and Korea last month?

Some jokes just keep getting funnier and funnier every time they are told. Even bad comedians know they have to write new material every once in awhile.

It will be interesting to see how Aronimink holds up to the uber-elite professionals next year at the BMW. The Gil Hanse led restoration work has certainly made it more playable for the members.

A late winter and early Spring could make crowd preparation a challenge for Oak Hill and even the Landfill.

I would like to see Grayson Murray take on Langer head-to-head. I think Langer would trounce him.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:He'd have to get a passport first.

No Passport?   My, how did he play in Malaysia and Korea last month?

Some jokes just keep getting funnier and funnier every time they are told.  Even bad comedians know they have to write new material every once in awhile.

I don't know what is more repetitive GPB, my jokes or your flag waving defence of moronic redneck golfers.

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:He'd have to get a passport first.

No Passport?   My, how did he play in Malaysia and Korea last month?

Some jokes just keep getting funnier and funnier every time they are told.  Even bad comedians know they have to write new material every once in awhile.

I don't know what is more repetitive GPB, my jokes or your flag waving defence of moronic redneck golfers.

There is a lot to criticize Murray about, but the same anti-American stereo-type jokes lack imagination.  Just don't understand why you are such a American xenophobe.

Unfortunately, Murray seemingly goes out of his way to reinforce his own stereotype.

On the brighter side, I see Andrew Johnston is beefing his way into RSM action - hadn't expected that but he mysteriously has a short medical extension, three tournaments to earn 253 FedEx points. Odds against I would think.

I'm not remotely a xenophobe GPB,  I'm just  not a fan of the bible thumping, right wing, half witted, uncultured big mouths like  Murray or Rev Watson.  They are hardly likeable people, so why not joke about them, even if you do consider the jokes to be lame?

There's plenty of American golfers I think are decent players and decent human beings, but there's a hard core of complete bumholes of which Murray is one.

kwinigolfer wrote:Unfortunately, Murray seemingly goes out of his way to reinforce his own stereotype.

Acknowledged. That why the same anti-American cracks about passports is lazy. I figured even Super could do better, but maybe I am giving him too much credit. Especially considering Murray was playing in Asia just a few weeks ago.

I don't make the same old cracks about (the lack of) British Dentistry because it lacks imagination.

And yes, many American don't have passports. SO FRICKING WHAT! Because we don't need them. The USA is a mighty large country, 11 of our states are bigger than the UK. I can go at least 1000 miles (North, South, East, West) and not leave the country. We have tropical beaches, and incredible ski resorts. There is really no need for many Americans to ever leave the country. I have a passport, but I haven't left the country in 10+ years.

super_realist wrote:They are hardly likeable people, so why not joke about them

Exactly, why not?

Instead of rolling out tired stereotypes.

For goodness sake GPB, why do Americans' have to be so literal? It's a well known statistic that Americans have a LOW passport ownership, it's only a MYTH that British have poor teeth. In fact, a recent survey showed British teeth to be better than Americans. I was being SATIRICAL.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/12054216/Americans-do-not-have-better-teeth-than-the-British-study-concludes.html



The size of your country means nothing, do you know why? Because people from Canada and Australia which are also very big countries, travel extensively.  Travel is about more than how big your country is, it's about "broadening the mind" to envoke another cliché, though it probably explains why Americans know so little about the rest of the world, because they have the same insular attitude to the world as you do.  Tons of countries could say the same as America for the things they have at home, but if I meet someone with a North American accent in Europe, I'll first assume they are Canadian.

If you think travel is just about getting things you don't already have at home, then I pity you, although I will grant you that your country is especially niggardly when it comes to giving a humane amount of holidays, and that would be a legitimate reason for not travelling so much, but not your tropical beaches or your ski resorts.

super_realist wrote: if I meet someone with a North American accent in Europe, I'll first assume they are Canadian.

Unless you’re at McD’s..

I’d also say if you live in the US you normally have to travel really really far to go somewhere where a passport is needed, Mexico excluded. AFAIK US citizens don’t need a passport to go to Canada and half of the Caribbean islands.

Of course there is an element of insular thinking but combined with 2 weeks of annual vacation it explains most of it.

And mind you, how many Brits have actually been to America or Africa, despite having loads of vacation (and a passport)? Which for Americans would be comparable to Latin America or Europe, where a passport is needed.

If you wanted to a go to a tropical beach for a summer vacation, just where would Canadians go without a passport?

And FWIW, Adult Americans do need a passport to go to Canada (or a Nexus Card, whatever that is).

And FWIW, I think you are over-estimating the passport ownership of Canadians. and probably a lot Aussies too.

Argentine Open being played this week. It does have an impressive list of former champions

Furyk
Weiskopf
Stadler (both of them)
O'Meara
Calcavecchia

====
(some legends from WAYBACK)

Mangrum
Picard
Runyan
Demeret

Its somewhat ironic that you categorize a "North American" accent.

Half my family are Canadian, and they have a much different accent from the people in the midwest who are much different than people from the deep south which is much different from New York which is different from New England which is different from Texas.

Thats like saying that a English Accent is the same as Scottish and Irish accents.

Whoa Doggy, talk about insular.

Fortunately Canada and the US and Europe are all great places - suppose I have the best of lots of worlds, just 50 miles from the Quebec border with a cultural difference you can feel immediately, enjoying much of the very best of the US while ignoring the ghastly worst, and in touch with family and friends thru'out Europe and Oz on an almost daily basis.
Would love to get to know parts of South America, Chile and Argentina especially, would love to drive the Motorcycle Diaries route. Bucket list stuff.

I tried to fly into Montreal last month and hadn't realised I needed an ETA to enter Oh Canada by air, but not by car - who knew!? Not moi.
Bl00dy Canada. Which I love!

GPB wrote:If you wanted to a go to a tropical beach for a summer vacation, just where would Canadians go without a passport?

And FWIW, Adult Americans do need a passport to go to Canada (or a Nexus Card, whatever that is).

And FWIW, I think you are over-estimating the passport ownership of Canadians.  and probably a lot Aussies too.

An American "Tropical" beach is hardly Barbados, Bermuda or the Seychelles is it, unless you're talking about Hawaii, which is about much as real America as Bermuda is part of Britain? It's a bit like saying, why would you have a BMW, Porsche or Mercedes when you can have a Ford or Cadillac. It's a bit short on ambition and imagination if you just settle for whatever your own country has isn't it? That's why I laugh at Americans for not travelling, because other than a lack of holiday dished out by the parsimonious holiday entitlement, Americans have no excuse.

Not having much holiday time is a pretty good excuse though, I say excuse I probably mean reason.

Brits that "travel" have probably 15 different countries/cultures to experience within 3 hours flight and that's as far as the majority of them will go (and I'd guess most of them to Spain, Portugal, France, Italy). Not many will do a 3/4 day city break to North America, which is less than a quarter of our holiday entitlement, and I'd guess that the bulk of benidormers are hardly immersing themselves in the culture of ancient Spain.

Do I think it would "benefit" (apologies to statesiders if that sounds patronising) them to go long haul out of the US? Yes. Would I use a huge chunk of my 10 business days of holiday time taking a 8-15 hour flight each way, each year to do something for recreation that I could do just as well in my own country? No. That's not to say that if I wanted to broaden my experiences of other cultures I wouldn't do it, but I would hazard that for most people a "holiday" is simple R&R and takes priority over horizon expanding.

Unusual for Americans with any sort of career-type job to be stuck on 2 wks holiday, at least after a year or so; much more likely to find 3 or 4 weeks with "personal" days on top of that.
Plus, plenty more lovely beaches here than Barbados, for instance.

Good point Kwin ... I don't know how this only 2 weeks vacation only generalization persists. In my company new hires start out with vacation and personal days that total 22. And it only goes up from there.

Do the 22 days include public holidays?

No ... not in my company.

Roller_Coaster wrote:
Brits that "travel" have probably 15 different countries/cultures to experience within 3 hours flight and that's as far as the majority of them will go (and I'd guess most of them to Spain, Portugal, France, Italy). Not many will do a 3/4 day city break to North America, which is less than a quarter of our holiday entitlement, and I'd guess that the bulk of benidormers are hardly immersing themselves in the culture of ancient Spain.

15 countries / cultures? I would say 3 times that amount within 3 hours.

But let's be honest most Brits are more interested in sun and beer than exploring a different culture. The closest a resort can get to being like "home" the more popular it becomes. I think the growth of Dubai as a holiday destination has been helped by the lack of its own culture.

That's pretty fab Shotrock. Not too far off from what we have over here.

Shotrock wrote:Good point Kwin ... I don't know how this only 2 weeks vacation only generalization persists. In my company new hires start out with vacation and personal days that total 22. And it only goes up from there.

What is the difference between vacation and personal days?

In the US, my firm offers 15 days for new junior staff which increases to 22 days after 2 years. All management are on 22 days. Plus 10 days public holidays, so 32 all in.

For comparison, in the UK the firm allows you to choose (up front at the start of the year) a number from 20 to 30 days. Let's say 25 is the norm. Obviously your salary is adjusted to reflect the choice. Plus 8 days public holidays, so 33 days all in... not materially different from the US.

raycastleunited wrote:
15 countries / cultures? I would say 3 times that amount within 3 hours.

You just have to go to places like Newcastle to get the cultural experience of your life.

raycastleunited wrote:
I think the growth of Dubai as a holiday destination has been helped by the lack of its own culture.

I rather think it’s down to:
1) warm in winter, unlike Spain/canaries/Greece etc.
2) not too far away and easily accessible by direct flight
3) very civilised compared to other places that would otherwise tick 1) and 2)

Everyone I know who has been to Dubai has said they wouldn't go back unless a very good golf deal could be had. I tend to know those at the more cultured end of the spectrum though.

Ray - I honestly don't know. In my company, personal days I'm pretty sure are used for illness, family emergencies, "mental health" days, etc. Bottom line, everyone in the company takes them and you are not allowed to carry them over from year to year.

I should know this stuff!

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:If you wanted to a go to a tropical beach for a summer vacation, just where would Canadians go without a passport?

And FWIW, Adult Americans do need a passport to go to Canada (or a Nexus Card, whatever that is).

And FWIW, I think you are over-estimating the passport ownership of Canadians.  and probably a lot Aussies too.

An American "Tropical" beach is hardly Barbados, Bermuda or the Seychelles is it, unless you're talking about Hawaii, which is about much as real America as Bermuda is part of Britain? It's a bit like saying, why would you have a BMW, Porsche or Mercedes when you can have a Ford or Cadillac. It's a bit short on ambition and imagination if you just settle for whatever your own country has isn't it? That's why I laugh at Americans for not travelling, because other than a lack of holiday dished out by the parsimonious holiday entitlement, Americans have no excuse.

An American would not need a passport to go to Hawaii, or Puerto Rico, or US Virgin Islands, or Guam, or Samoa. In addition, I consider the beaches of South Florida as Tropical.

WTF does Real America mean anyways? A Strawman Argument? The beaches there are definitely tropical and it is a REAL UNITED STATE. For almost 60 years. The argument is "passport need" between Canadians and Americans and if Canadians want to vacation someplace warm, they need a passport. Americans do not.

and FTR, I have never been overseas. Never really had a desire. I have been to Mexico, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, and the Bahamas. Shortish trips comparatively. There is nothing I like about flying. Its a three hour trip to a major airport. I don't like the parking hassle. I don't like waiting in lines at check-on, security, and boarding. I am little claustrophobic, so being in the plane is problematic for me.

And the Australia argument? Australia is a big country but most of it is relatively not habitable. A high percentage of the of the population live within 50 km of the coast. There is really not many places to go.

McLaren wrote:Everyone I know who has been to Dubai has said they wouldn't go back unless a very good golf deal could be had.  I tend to know those at the more cultured end of the spectrum though.  

That's quite possibly your best ever post Mac.

Oh and I want to go back to Dubai, I enjoyed it - despite that putting me where it has on the spectrum

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:

GPB wrote:If you wanted to a go to a tropical beach for a summer vacation, just where would Canadians go without a passport?

And FWIW, Adult Americans do need a passport to go to Canada (or a Nexus Card, whatever that is).

And FWIW, I think you are over-estimating the passport ownership of Canadians.  and probably a lot Aussies too.

An American "Tropical" beach is hardly Barbados, Bermuda or the Seychelles is it, unless you're talking about Hawaii, which is about much as real America as Bermuda is part of Britain? It's a bit like saying, why would you have a BMW, Porsche or Mercedes when you can have a Ford or Cadillac. It's a bit short on ambition and imagination if you just settle for whatever your own country has isn't it? That's why I laugh at Americans for not travelling, because other than a lack of holiday dished out by the parsimonious holiday entitlement, Americans have no excuse.

An American would not need a passport to go to Hawaii, or Puerto Rico, or US Virgin Islands, or Guam, or Samoa.  In addition, I consider the beaches of South Florida as Tropical.  

WTF does Real America mean anyways?  A Strawman Argument?  The beaches there are definitely tropical and it is a REAL UNITED STATE.  For almost 60 years.  The argument is "passport need" between Canadians and Americans and if Canadians want to vacation someplace warm, they need a passport.  Americans do not.

and FTR, I have never been overseas.  Never really had a desire.  I have been to Mexico, Cayman Islands, Jamaica, and the Bahamas.  Shortish trips comparatively.  There is nothing I like about flying.  Its a three hour trip to a major airport. I don't like the parking hassle.  I don't like waiting in lines at check-on, security, and boarding.  I am little claustrophobic, so being in the plane is problematic for me.

And the Australia argument?  Australia is a big country but most of it is relatively not habitable.  A high percentage of the of the population live within 50 km of the coast.  There is really not many places to go.

Mainland America is what I would mean by "real America". Not remotely a strawman. I still think your reasoning to stay at home is complete rubbish. Your holidays are your only reason for staying at home and the difference in time at an airport isn't that much different to flying in America, plus if you want to avoid the "lines" then check in online.

Most of America isn't habitable either and many Americans also live close to the coast. New York, Houston, San Fran, San Diego, Seattle, New Orleans etc are all coastal cities.

"Most of America isn't inhabitable either ..."

I learned something today!

Shotrock wrote:"Most of America isn't inhabitable either ..."

I learned something today!

I meant habitable.

Super - I made the mistake ... not you.

Still "most of America isn't habitable"? I question that!

I think he's talking Red States . . . . . . . (Hilton Head Island always excepted).

Well, there's an answer ... but as we know Kwin, the state itself does not define the entire population. You should see some of the political signage on Route 28 heading north from our beloved Utica in the very blue state of NY!

Shotrock wrote:Well, there's an answer ... but as we know Kwin, the state itself does not define the entire population. You should see some of the political signage on Route 28 heading north from our beloved Utica in the very blue state of NY!

Agreed on that. Not to mention so many of my dear wife's FB "friends" - no questioning her credentials however.

Quite apart from all the joshing on this subject (not Mexico), I find it difficult to imagine that anyone doesn't gain from travelling to different countries, seeing how different social philosophies apply, different cultures, scenic beauty and the rest.
Incredible the number of Vermonters that don't ever travel to Quebec, just an hour from my armchair. I often say to the locals that the best thing about Burlington is proximity to Montreal - exaggeration perhaps, but not much of one.

Another benefit of travel is that it frequently challenges sweeping stereotypes that are all too pervasive.

Agreed kwini. And speaking of. Here’s one US golfer not wanting to be typecast

http://www.golfchannel.com/article/doug-ferguson/notes-private-teacher-keeps-kuchar-family-road-together

Roller_Coaster wrote:

McLaren wrote:Everyone I know who has been to Dubai has said they wouldn't go back unless a very good golf deal could be had.  I tend to know those at the more cultured end of the spectrum though.  

That's quite possibly your best ever post Mac.

Oh and I want to go back to Dubai, I enjoyed it - despite that putting me where it has on the spectrum

We’ve been to Dubai 3 or 4 times and planning to go back this winter. We really enjoy it. Only negative is the amount of Russians.