Brexit

by **navyblueshorts** Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

First topic message reminder :

Galted wrote:It will stop foreigners praying in our mosques.

by TRUSSMAN66 Fri 19 Jan 2018, 11:44 am

Old Tony Blair desperately trying to change his legacy over Brexit is perhaps wasting his time...me thinks..

.While there is good support for his position..

When asked who out of these three they'd trust to steer the UK through Brexit ??..

May -6
Corbyn -6
Blair -42..

If he really cared about saving the UK role in Europe perhaps the best thing he could do is stay out of the argument...

He is truly toxic..

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 19 Jan 2018, 9:54 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Old Tony Blair desperately trying to change his legacy over Brexit is perhaps wasting his time...me thinks..

.While there is good support for his position..

When asked who out of these three they'd trust to steer the UK through Brexit ??..

May -6
Corbyn -6
Blair -42..

If he really cared about saving the UK role in Europe perhaps the best thing he could do is stay out of the argument...

He is truly toxic..

That's what tends to happen when one gets caught out blatantly lying and therefore being needlessly responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis etc as well as a number of your own troops. It's what happens when one's behaviour traduces and drives an honest scientist to top himself. It's what happens when you combine that with doing everything to enrich oneself. As you say, he truly is toxic. I'd like to see him in the Hague, but it'll never happen.

by lostinwales Sat 20 Jan 2018, 6:56 pm

None of them are great. There is so much hope around Corbyn, and so many people saying he's going to do this or that.

I looked up how long he's been in parliament. He's been there for 34 years. You have to ask yourself what has he achieved in that time? He's done some interesting things, like the Iranian TV show. He had a few meetings with 'interesting' people that get spun one way or the other, but in general he has done nothing, and I'd argue he's still doing nothing.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Jan 2018, 7:33 am

Yes what has Corbyn ever achieved in 34 years..

1.Won two Labour leadership contests by landslides...
2.Ge17 led Labour to the highest rise in vote share by the party in 72 years...Took Labour from 30 to 40 percent..
3. Labour has more members than anytime in the last 60 years...570k
4. Results alone became the 5th most succesful Labour leader of alltime in June.
5. As a backbencher was on the national executive of the Anti apartheid commission and was one of the first Mps to push for Transgender rights..
6. Chairman of the stop the War commission.. Iraq was a disaster..
7. Lobbied against PFI which is a very relevant topic at the moment..

8.Could be pedantic and point out Labour's performance has stopped the reintroduction of Fox hunting and the introduction of the Dementia Tax and has forced the Govt to redirect its interest in policies for the young..

9.Stopped a Hard Brexit..

10. Probably has the best social media network of any leader in the World...Which is gold when you have 90 percent of the MSM opposed to you.

All done with only 20 percent of the PLP behind him..

Doesn't look a bad record to me.

by Ent Sun 21 Jan 2018, 8:30 am

So 10 points in 34 years and a stretch to call most of them achievements.

Wonderful.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Jan 2018, 10:40 am

Ent wrote:So 10 points in 34 years and a stretch to call most of them achievements.

Wonderful.

Your reply is sarcasm and no substance.....Perhaps a better grasp of context and topic required from you... before posting on this subject again...

I'll move on..

...

by Ent Sun 21 Jan 2018, 10:57 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:So 10 points in 34 years and a stretch to call most of them achievements.

Wonderful.

Your reply is sarcasm and no substance.....Perhaps a better grasp of context and topic required from you... before posting on this subject again...

I'll move on..

...

Your post got the reply it deserved, some of the points were quite frankly nonsense.

Lobbying a great achievement for 3 decades as an mp.

by TRUSSMAN66 Sun 21 Jan 2018, 11:18 am

No substance to you...But I never give up on lost causes...

Anyway a couple more..

Probably the most successful hard left leader the UK has ever seen ..I imagine Attlee was more centrist and he is the only true leftish labour leader who can match or better Corbyn's June showing....Apparently Wilson was a moderate and Blair was more centrist than him.

Labour has the highest membership of any party in Western Europe..

by lostinwales Sun 21 Jan 2018, 2:29 pm

And most of those 'achievements' can be put down to not being the Conservative party.

People project their hopes onto him. He does nothing to dissuade them from doing so because he doesn't do anything. It is well worth remembering that the bulk of the people who do actually have to work with him up close, the labour MP's, seem to have a very low opinion of him.

I dearly want the tories out of power. I think we have the worst government in place in my memory. I keep on trying to tell myself that this version of the labour party are going to be better, but suspect they won't be, and will cause as many new problems as they solve. They won't be better because they don't have to be.

I genuinely think our political system has failed. The conservatives are done for a few years, and as their party membership shrinks the pool of people from which they pick their MP's also shrinks down to the point at which it only contains the nutters and the over privileged. Lib dems seem to have disappeared again (and isn't it bizarre that UKIP get significantly more media coverage than Lib Dems these days?), which leaves labour, a party seemingly in the hands of a bunch of activists who seem a bit devoid of actual practical ideas and can't get ahead of a failed Tory government lead by a charmless robot.

by Muscular-mouse Sun 21 Jan 2018, 9:46 pm

Well if you want to know what Corbyn has done in 34 years of being in Parliament look at his voting record, he has voted for and argued in favour of many issues such as gay rights, equal pay and workers rights among many other things.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say what has Corbyn done in 34 years of being an mp. Are you basing how successful he is or what he has done on whether he was in cabinet etc?

I would implore you to look at his voting record and topics he has argued against such as apartheid and an end to nuclear weapons and stop the war campaign etc to see the work he has done for his community.

And as Truss pointed out over the last 2 years he has had a remarkable run at leader.

I would also point out that winning your seat at every general election for nearly 40 years is a massive achievement.

by Duty281 Sun 21 Jan 2018, 10:24 pm

Muscular-mouse wrote:I would also point out that winning your seat at every general election for nearly 40 years is a massive achievement.

Not really. If you’re a Labour/Tory politician and have a safe seat, it’s easy to hold it for 40 years.

by **Hero** Sun 21 Jan 2018, 10:52 pm

My home town has been Tory for 100 years this year.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 22 Jan 2018, 7:55 am

Canterbury had been Conservative over 100 years..

Kensington had never been Labour...

by lostinwales Mon 22 Jan 2018, 1:01 pm

Muscular-mouse wrote:Well if you want to know what Corbyn has done in 34 years of being in Parliament look at his voting record, he has voted for and argued in favour of many issues such as gay rights, equal pay and workers rights among many other things.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say what has Corbyn done in 34 years of being an mp. Are you basing how successful he is or what he has done on whether he was in cabinet etc?

I would implore you to look at his voting record and topics he has argued against such as apartheid and an end to nuclear weapons and stop the war campaign etc to see the work he has done for his community.

And as Truss pointed out over the last 2 years he has had a remarkable run at leader.

I would also point out that winning your seat at every general election for nearly 40 years is a massive achievement.

Yes he's very 'right on' and as far as the wearing of hair shirts go no one wears a shirt that is hairier. But for 32 years he never got close to a shadow cabinet post. Instead he is down in history as one of the most rebellious Labour MP's of all time

He has also done some very questionable things. Talking to the IRA in itself was not a bad idea. However, doing so right after major bombing surely is.

I also appreciate the spin on the votes in the last GA. But he still didn't win. And I still feel he's not putting pressure on the government. He's OK standing on a stage and talking (and the contrast with the Maybot is huge), but he's not a leader and many in his team (of the likes of McDonnell etc) don't fill me with confidence.

Look, I do think we need a certain number of politicians in parliament like him, but not in power

by **Pr4wn** Thu 01 Feb 2018, 6:24 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/01/indias-farmed-chickens-dosed-with-worlds-strongest-antibiotics-study-finds

"Standards that are good enough for India, are good enough for us." - Jacob Rees Mogg, 2016.

by SecretFly Thu 01 Feb 2018, 6:33 pm

Who you vote for also decides what your chickens are injected with. That doesn't necessarily need an EU overlord. All that it needs is that the people concerned about standards dropping in the food industry make standards an issue during elections and demand that their representatives change any notions about Indian standards being good enough for the UK.

Voters decide everything.... as we all know only too well.

by Duty281 Thu 01 Feb 2018, 8:47 pm

Pr4wn wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/feb/01/indias-farmed-chickens-dosed-with-worlds-strongest-antibiotics-study-finds

"Standards that are good enough for India, are good enough for us." - Jacob Rees Mogg, 2016.

What Rees Mogg actually said:
“We could, if we wanted, accept emissions standards from India, America, and Europe. There’d be no contradiction with that,” Mr Rees-Mogg said.
“We could say, if it’s good enough in India, it’s good enough for here. There’s nothing to stop that.”

by **Pr4wn** Thu 01 Feb 2018, 8:52 pm

Doesn't really make it sound much better, does it?

by Scottrf Thu 01 Feb 2018, 9:46 pm

Well, his quote has context and a completely different meaning. Discussing one option not stating his preference.

Yours deliberately removes the context to change the meaning for effect.

by Duty281 Thu 01 Feb 2018, 11:14 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Doesn't really make it sound much better, does it?

It’s an entirely different meaning.

by **navyblueshorts** Fri 02 Feb 2018, 9:07 am

Points taken Scottrf/Duty, but I'm not sure I'd trust people like Rees-Moog to make sure we don't get saturated with Indian antibiotics. To be fair to him, he's in no way unique and I suspect many, of both political colours, would rather have lots of trade with India, even if does mean we're OK with poor animal husbandry and the risks of increased antibiotic resistance in the bacterial flora we're exposed to.

by **Pr4wn** Fri 02 Feb 2018, 2:24 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Doesn't really make it sound much better, does it?

It’s an entirely different meaning.

That doesn't answer my question, lad.

by Scottrf Fri 02 Feb 2018, 2:38 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Points taken Scottrf/Duty, but I'm not sure I'd trust people like Rees-Moog to make sure we don't get saturated with Indian antibiotics. To be fair to him, he's in no way unique and I suspect many, of both political colours, would rather have lots of trade with India, even if does mean we're OK with poor animal husbandry and the risks of increased antibiotic resistance in the bacterial flora we're exposed to.

I would agree. Not sure I'd trust chicken from the US either. All pumped full of drugs, fed crap, not allowed to move. You have the chlorine washed ones. Dead birds left with the others. All of ours contains camplylobacter. I don't eat chicken. People aren't willing to pay enough for meat for it to be good.

by Steffan Fri 02 Feb 2018, 7:40 pm

All this talk of chicken pumped full of drugs and unhealthy etc. Makes me glad I am a vegetarian nowadays

by **navyblueshorts** Sat 03 Feb 2018, 5:09 pm

Steffan wrote:All this talk of chicken pumped full of drugs and unhealthy etc. Makes me glad I am a vegetarian nowadays

No worries. The Rees-Mogg etc crowd model will no doubt have you eating GM veg before you know it! Perfectly safe and environmentally friendly don't you know? Tests? What tests? We don't need to do no stinking tests.

by Scottrf Sat 03 Feb 2018, 6:00 pm

We do anyway?

by Samo Sat 03 Feb 2018, 7:07 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Steffan wrote:All this talk of chicken pumped full of drugs and unhealthy etc. Makes me glad I am a vegetarian nowadays
No worries. The Rees-Mogg etc crowd model will no doubt have you eating GM veg before you know it! Perfectly safe and environmentally friendly don't you know? Tests? What tests? We don't need to do no stinking tests.

Pretty sure we already eat plenty of GM food already.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 05 Feb 2018, 9:31 am

Nope. I don't think you'll find we do. It's not the human health angle that p!sses me off with GM, it's the environmental risks with a lot of it and the longitudinal studies just haven't been done.

by Scottrf Mon 05 Feb 2018, 9:38 am

navyblueshorts wrote:Nope. I don't think you'll find we do. It's not the human health angle that p!sses me off with GM, it's the environmental risks with a lot of it and the longitudinal studies just haven't been done.

You're right. Didn't realise how strict it was.

by SecretFly Mon 05 Feb 2018, 10:38 am

One of the issues with GM food is the continuing lobbying to ensure that GM food is not treated differently to other food - ie. the arguments used to make sure there is no labelling present that lets consumers make their own decisions.

If they tell you where your beef has come from and here in Ireland a relatively local crisps making company gives you the sat nav details of which field your bloody potatoes have come from - then I hope reasonable people wherever this GM debate takes place firmly say NO to non-labelling of GM food. Conscientious objectors have a right to make their own decision on eating this stuff. Nobody owes any of these companies that would use such products a living. If the customer makes their research and investment go down the tubes by virtue of the choices they make in what they put in their shopping basket, then so be it.

by **superflyweight** Mon 05 Feb 2018, 10:44 am

Under Brexit we can eat Soylent Green. If it's good enough for a fictional dystopian future then it's good enough for us.

by **Galted** Mon 05 Feb 2018, 11:19 am

I ate some charcoal once.

by SecretFly Mon 05 Feb 2018, 11:34 am

Galted wrote:I ate some charcoal once.

Did it have horse genes in it? The stuff with the horse genes is nice. Less salty than the Sardines charcoal.

by **navyblueshorts** Mon 05 Feb 2018, 1:09 pm

Galted wrote:I ate some charcoal once.

I'm actually surprised that Gwyneth Paltrow hasn't advocated that (inserted up the backside as some form of enema, of course), but then again, activated charcoal might actually really detoxify (whatever the **** that means) your bowels, so that's no use to her form of quackery.

by Samo Mon 05 Feb 2018, 4:03 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Galted wrote:I ate some charcoal once.
I'm actually surprised that Gwyneth Paltrow hasn't advocated that (inserted up the backside as some form of enema, of course), but then again, activated charcoal might actually really detoxify (whatever the **** that means) your bowels, so that's no use to her form of quackery.

Isnt charcoal meant to be amazing for your teeth?

by **navyblueshorts** Tue 06 Feb 2018, 12:56 pm

Samo wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Galted wrote:I ate some charcoal once.
I'm actually surprised that Gwyneth Paltrow hasn't advocated that (inserted up the backside as some form of enema, of course), but then again, activated charcoal might actually really detoxify (whatever the **** that means) your bowels, so that's no use to her form of quackery.

Isnt charcoal meant to be amazing for your teeth?

Dunno. Maybe Gillian McKeith would recommend it...

by lostinwales Sat 10 Feb 2018, 3:33 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Steffan wrote:All this talk of chicken pumped full of drugs and unhealthy etc. Makes me glad I am a vegetarian nowadays
No worries. The Rees-Mogg etc crowd model will no doubt have you eating GM veg before you know it! Perfectly safe and environmentally friendly don't you know? Tests? What tests? We don't need to do no stinking tests.

The thing that gets me is that GM just isn't one thing. There are of course lots of 'questionable' uses of the technology, but there are positives all.

It's not a one size (or one attitude) fits all situation

by **Pr4wn** Mon 12 Feb 2018, 1:52 pm

lostinwales wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
Steffan wrote:All this talk of chicken pumped full of drugs and unhealthy etc. Makes me glad I am a vegetarian nowadays
No worries. The Rees-Mogg etc crowd model will no doubt have you eating GM veg before you know it! Perfectly safe and environmentally friendly don't you know? Tests? What tests? We don't need to do no stinking tests.

The thing that gets me is that GM just isn't one thing. There are of course lots of 'questionable' uses of the technology, but there are positives all.

It's not a one size (or one attitude) fits all situation

Quite! Which is why we need tight regulations surrounding this sort of thing. I hear Rees-Mogg is all about regulations.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 12 Feb 2018, 7:03 pm

I hope Rees Mogg becomes PM...

Mogg v Corbyn....Be like a parallel universe..

A movie too unbelievable it would never get made..

by CaledonianCraig Sun 25 Feb 2018, 9:18 pm

Hmm the Tory government at it again.

They are desperate for a power grab but they know they are legally not allowed. All devolved EU matters goes straight to Scotland otherwise it is a clear breach of the devolution bill. Therefore the desperate Tories feel the need to try to apply pressure to the Scottish government by claiming that it will be the fault of the SNP if they don't get a good deal from Brexit. A bit rich that considering Scots voted for devolution but did not vote for Brexit.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 26 Feb 2018, 9:54 am

Corbyn and a Custom's Union means Scotland is the least of May's problems..

by CaledonianCraig Mon 26 Feb 2018, 2:47 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Corbyn and a Custom's Union means Scotland is the least of May's problems..

I cannot see what that has got to do with the Westminster government trying to break a devolution agreement.

Just reminds me of all that stinks to high heaven about Westminster and the Tories.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 26 Feb 2018, 6:36 pm

It is my way of saying I couldn't give a crap..

Theresa is now 10/11 to go this year..Odds on now.

Not looking good...London voted remain. Plenty of Tory seats saying take me in May..

by CaledonianCraig Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:16 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It is my way of saying I couldn't give a crap..

Theresa is now 10/11 to go this year..Odds on now.

Not looking good...London voted remain. Plenty of Tory seats saying take me in May..

Fair enough.

The whole population of Scotland can and do give a crap though and it is just another piece of proof of how pathetic Westminster is.

I just find it truly bizarre that in opinion polls outwith Scotland the Tories still rank so highly. Are people brain dead?

by Ent Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:25 pm

If it breaches the devolution bill can the courts not confirm this and give the returning EU legislative powers to the devolved administrations?

Corbyns proposed custom union doesn't work; no tariffs, not in eu or single market but a say in trade negotiations? Pull the other one. Closest to that is turkey apparently and they've no say.

Again promising/saying we will do this when they aren't going to have to negotiate/implement the eu exit.

Wonder what staunch leave labour voters think...

by Ent Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:27 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It is my way of saying I couldn't give a crap..

Theresa is now 10/11 to go this year..Odds on now.

Not looking good...London voted remain. Plenty of Tory seats saying take me in May..

Fair enough.

The whole population of Scotland can and do give a crap though and it is just another piece of proof of how pathetic Westminster is.

I just find it truly bizarre that in opinion polls outwith Scotland the Tories still rank so highly. Are people brain dead?

People also think snp voters, corbyn supporters are brain dead - that's tribal party politics for you.

by CaledonianCraig Mon 26 Feb 2018, 7:53 pm

Yes that is largely true outwith Scotland. However, on the issue I refer to all parties in Scotland are in agreement - all devokved powers must return to its rightful place - the Scottish Government.

by TRUSSMAN66 Mon 26 Feb 2018, 11:03 pm

Ent wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:It is my way of saying I couldn't give a crap..

Theresa is now 10/11 to go this year..Odds on now.

Not looking good...London voted remain. Plenty of Tory seats saying take me in May..

Fair enough.

The whole population of Scotland can and do give a crap though and it is just another piece of proof of how pathetic Westminster is.

I just find it truly bizarre that in opinion polls outwith Scotland the Tories still rank so highly. Are people brain dead?

People also think snp voters, corbyn supporters are brain dead - that's tribal party politics for you.

Interesting...

Yougov..

Lab 42
Con 40

IPsos

Lab 42
Coin 39

Survation

Lab 43
Con 40

Whenever you want to back up your shallow arguments break it to me gently..

I don't want to die of shock..

by CaledonianCraig Tue 27 Feb 2018, 12:16 am

All I know is that this Tory government jumped into bed with DUP - a party with history in terrorism just to hold onto power.

Secondly, they have backtracked and sidestepped the agreements with the DUP.

Thirdly, they are angling to try to deprive Scotland of the devolved powers from the EU.

In short they cannot be trusted and that is putting it politely.

by TRUSSMAN66 Wed 28 Feb 2018, 9:30 am

Boris Johnson isn't a good advertisement for Eton.

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