The Future for the PRO14 - Part 5 - How are the Unions doing?

First topic message reminder :

Some of the Irish provinces seem to be doing fine.  Munster might be able to pay back a few shillings to Landsdowne HQ this season.  Leinster have finally started sharing. Connacht have survived Mr Grumpy and have managed another Challenge Cup quarter.  Could they make the final?
Ulster need a separate topic to cover all their issues.  Oh - and they have one.  

Italy.  Treviso are now Benetton and improving to the point of it being grudgingly admitted outside of Italy.  Zebre?  See Ulster above.  The FIR continue to fiddle the other unions while Rome burns.  

Scarlets on the other hand continue to see Byrne roam.  And sidestep.  The WRU must be grinning from ear to ear as Scarlets are simply steaming.   Who needs union monies when you can assemble a squad like this?  Top of their conference and finishing top of their pool in front of a packed house to gain a home quarterfinal in the Champions Cup. What more could you ask for?  Possibly a sneaky Welsh cap for Tadgh Beirne but little else to complain about.  If Gatland can harness the Scarlets, a la Leinster and Glasgow, and get Wales moving to the top in the Six Nations, the WRU might need to send a little more love (hard cash) over Llanelli way to encourage them further.  

Dragons got bought by the WRU.  And then hired an Irish coach. And then fixed their pitch.  And then things went so so.  And the jury went out on Jackman.  And then they started losing. A lot.  And then they had lots of announcements about new players for next season. And then they got knocked out of the Challenge Cup.  
And now it’s a wait for another season.  Not sure if the jury has come back in yet but Jackman has a battle on his hands.  

Ospreys continue to plumb new depths and eventually decided to fire their coach after failing in the Champions Cup once again.  Will they be in the Challenge Cup next season?

Cardiff have at least made the knockouts of the Challenge Cup but they’re still batting eyes at the WRU some say.  Will they succumb to the union’s clutches?

All the way down to Port Elizabeth for the new entrants.

The Southern Kings? See Zebre.  X 100.   Massive squad revamp needed and SARU investment.

Cheetahs?   Just when they’d notched another triumph on their league bedpost, came the news that another of their players had been nicked for another SR side. Their top try scorer is leaving too.  They’ve 8 wins in the bag, can they get a few more to make it into the playoffs?  

And finally the Scots.  Cockerill is definitely making inroads and if it doesn’t happen this season, they’ll be making life difficult in 2018/19 for a few of the higher up clubs. Their sassy and classy neighbours look strong prospects for the Championship title with a single loss so far.   Not too long ago, the SRU was making plaintive noises about the costs of running the two clubs and seeking private investors.  Then they went quiet.  Then they announced a profit for the first time in a long while.  And investment in academy is starting to pay off.  And the Test team isn’t doing too shabby either.  SRU CEO, Mark Dodson, says long term objective is to secure external investment to ensure the future of the game.  

We’ve had the first inkling of a change and expected increase in TV revenues for the Championship with EirSport announced as the new broadcaster for games in the Irish territory.  Anayi & Co still have to deliver a substantial increase on previous revenues.  The SARU/SuperSport deal has ensured part of that with a reported 36m six-year agreement.   What will GB deliver?

Private investment and Union control/money.  Will a happy marriage eventually be reached?

Oracle, you do make me laugh on here, you really do. You are so self righteous.

go on then, tell us, are all these fans now going to pay for Premier Sports to watch the Pro14 ? Do you reckon they will ?

I live in the valleys, have done all my life, and trust me, where we used to have people always watching the rugby on the BBC on a Friday night, we will now have people NOT watching it.

People here though do spend money on Sky Sports. They all ware their Liverpool and Man UTD tops. But they followed the regions on the BBC as well. Trust me they will not be paying to do both, and I would imagine, that the scenario is quite similar in your neck of the woods as well, but it does not suit you to agree.

Why do people just give a red bar instead of having the guts to just reply ?

There you go LD, I've balanced that out for ya

Cheers Pete. Your a star.

Why are you so desperate to look out for the best interests of the entitled, want everything for nothing wasters?

LordDowlais wrote:Oracle, you do make me laugh on here, you really do. You are so self righteous.

go on then, tell us, are all these fans now going to pay for Premier Sports to watch the Pro14 ? Do you reckon they will ?

I live in the valleys, have done all my life, and trust me, where we used to have people always watching the rugby on the BBC on a Friday night, we will now have people NOT watching it.

People here though do spend money on Sky Sports. They all ware their Liverpool and Man UTD tops. But they followed the regions on the BBC as well. Trust me they will not be paying to do both, and I would imagine, that the scenario is quite similar in your neck of the woods as well, but it does not suit you to agree.

You said most of the people in Wales are on the dole or benefits. So about 1.5 million people? Absolute rubbish. Stop making stuff up.

And my point from earlier still stands - we are going from 2 televised games per week to 1. How on earth is that going to be the death of the Pro14 in Wales? I never said they should or would start paying for it. I just said that going from 2 games per week to 1 would not make any difference. Why would it?! Take you or me as examples, LD. Are you telling me that Lord Dowlais and The Oracle are going to turn their backs on rugby, take up lawn bowls, get on the hard drugs, because of 1 less game per week being televised? I certainly won't. It'll make no difference to me. Tell us what it is going to do to you?

You should work for the Daily Mail with your fake news headlines!

The Oracle wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:Oracle, you do make me laugh on here, you really do. You are so self righteous.

go on then, tell us, are all these fans now going to pay for Premier Sports to watch the Pro14 ? Do you reckon they will ?

I live in the valleys, have done all my life, and trust me, where we used to have people always watching the rugby on the BBC on a Friday night, we will now have people NOT watching it.

People here though do spend money on Sky Sports. They all ware their Liverpool and Man UTD tops. But they followed the regions on the BBC as well. Trust me they will not be paying to do both, and I would imagine, that the scenario is quite similar in your neck of the woods as well, but it does not suit you to agree.

You said most of the people in Wales are on the dole or benefits.  So about 1.5 million people?  Absolute rubbish.  Stop making stuff up.  

And my point from earlier still stands - we are going from 2 televised games per week to 1.  How on earth is that going to be the death of the Pro14 in Wales?  I never said they should or would start paying for it.  I just said that going from 2 games per week to 1 would not make any difference.  Why would it?!  Take you or me as examples, LD.  Are you telling me that Lord Dowlais and The Oracle are going to turn their backs on rugby, take up lawn bowls, get on the hard drugs, because of 1 less game per week being televised?  I certainly won't.  It'll make no difference to me.  Tell us what it is going to do to you?

You should work for the Daily Mail with your fake news headlines!

Just to add, that one game per week will be shown on freesports as well, which is their free sports channel (clue is in the name) I would imagine some weeks this will include a welsh team, maybe even two welsh teams.

Anyway not going to comment on if the pro14/rugby/etc will die in Wales as a result of the broadcast move, just wanted to add that little bit of info.

I'll leave you to it now.

The Oracle wrote:You said most of the people in Wales are on the dole or benefits. So about 1.5 million people? Absolute rubbish. Stop making stuff up.

Take a look and enlighten yourself.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/how-many-people-benefits-you-11210175

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/revealed-the-uks-top-10-benefits-hotspots-a6884466.html

The Oracle wrote:And my point from earlier still stands - we are going from 2 televised games per week to 1. How on earth is that going to be the death of the Pro14 in Wales? I never said they should or would start paying for it. I just said that going from 2 games per week to 1 would not make any difference. Why would it?! Take you or me as examples, LD. Are you telling me that Lord Dowlais and The Oracle are going to turn their backs on rugby, take up lawn bowls, get on the hard drugs, because of 1 less game per week being televised? I certainly won't. It'll make no difference to me. Tell us what it is going to do to you?

This is not about the die hard fans like me or you though is it ? It is about the casual fans, the potential fans. These people are going to be lost to the Pro14 in Wales, and if you can be honest, just for once, you will admit that the league is struggling here.

The Oracle wrote:You should work for the Daily Mail with your fake news headlines!

Grow up.

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

LordDowlais wrote:
This is not about the die hard fans like me or you though is it ? It is about the casual fans, the potential fans. These people are going to be lost to the Pro14 in Wales, and if you can be honest, just for once, you will admit that the league is struggling here.

The league will always struggle in Wales. And in Scotland. Always.

Why? No away fans.

LordDowlais wrote:

You honestly think that the hundreds of thousands of people who watched it on the BBC

Hang on, is this per game or have you added up all of the games together?

PhilBB wrote:The league will always struggle in Wales. And in Scotland. Always.

Why? No away fans.

For once I agree with you Phil. Also, the no away fans really effects the atmosphere at games, because the banter between fans is not there. I used to love the banter between the fans on a match day at Sardis back in the day, and down in Cardiff. Also, especially the Cardiff and Swansea fans, they used to travel on their droves a lot of Turks from the west as well.

Used to see a lot of Newport and Neath fans as well, ah, the good old days. The thing is, people only had to travel short distances back then.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

You honestly think that the hundreds of thousands of people who watched it on the BBC

Hang on, is this per game or have you added up all of the games together?

Somebody posted the figures on here a while back. Check this link out:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-43302261


Notice this bit:-

""Pro14 matches get audiences of 100,000 people and more in Wales. Satellite channels just don't get that for ordinary club matches."

LordDowlais wrote:

People will not pay. Not here in Wales, where most of the people are either on benefits or the dole.

I appreciate that this is 7 year old data, but the Assembly noted 19% of the working age population received some type of benefit (which would include Job Seekers Allowance) http://www.assembly.wales/Research%20Documents/Welfare%20in%20Wales%20series%20Welfare%20statistics%20-%20Quick%20guide-22092011-224068/qg11-0033-English.pdf

350,640 people "claiming all types of benefits".

18% of the population were over 65 in 2008 http://www.assembly.wales/NAfW%20Documents/ki-020.pdf%20-%2003112011/ki-020-English.pdf

We really are struggling to prove "most of the people are either on benefits (including pensions) or the dole", aren't we?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

Care to elaborate ?

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

You honestly think that the hundreds of thousands of people who watched it on the BBC

Hang on, is this per game or have you added up all of the games together?

Somebody posted the figures on here a while back. Check this link out:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-43302261


Notice this bit:-

""Pro14 matches get audiences of 100,000 people and more in Wales. Satellite channels just don't get that for ordinary club matches."

Ah, so Peter Jackson claimed it.

BBC Two Wales BARB figures used to be in the tens of thousands for most PrO'14 games. The derbies, obviously, used to attract higher.

S4C would get about half the viewers, which says a lot.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

Care to elaborate ?

Happy to.

You're insular, poorly researched, heavily reliant on prejudice over fact, prone to make comments using absolute language that lacks nuance and unaware of the approach taken by those outside of a 5 square mile radius of your home.

It's a very Valleys life.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

Care to elaborate ?

Happy to.

You're insular, poorly researched, heavily reliant on prejudice over fact, prone to make comments using absolute language that lacks nuance and unaware of the approach taken by those outside of a 5 square mile radius of your home.

It's a very Valleys life.

A typical arrogant city retort. Well done.

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

Care to elaborate ?

Happy to.

You're insular, poorly researched, heavily reliant on prejudice over fact, prone to make comments using absolute language that lacks nuance and unaware of the approach taken by those outside of a 5 square mile radius of your home.

It's a very Valleys life.

A typical arrogant city retort. Well done.

I know. Fancy researching an opinion, fancy reading, fancy social mobility, fancy nuance, fancy travelling. Over rated.

Butt.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

People will not pay. Not here in Wales, where most of the people are either on benefits or the dole.

I appreciate that this is 7 year old data, but the Assembly noted 19% of the working age population received some type of benefit (which would include Job Seekers Allowance) http://www.assembly.wales/Research%20Documents/Welfare%20in%20Wales%20series%20Welfare%20statistics%20-%20Quick%20guide-22092011-224068/qg11-0033-English.pdf

350,640 people "claiming all types of benefits".

18% of the population were over 65 in 2008 http://www.assembly.wales/NAfW%20Documents/ki-020.pdf%20-%2003112011/ki-020-English.pdf

We really are struggling to prove "most of the people are either on benefits (including pensions) or the dole", aren't we?

Andy - I take it that you're backtracking from your "most" comment.

Am I arrogantly right?

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

You honestly think that the hundreds of thousands of people who watched it on the BBC

Hang on, is this per game or have you added up all of the games together?

Somebody posted the figures on here a while back. Check this link out:-

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-43302261


Notice this bit:-

""Pro14 matches get audiences of 100,000 people and more in Wales. Satellite channels just don't get that for ordinary club matches."

Ah, so Peter Jackson claimed it.

BBC Two Wales BARB figures used to be in the tens of thousands for most PrO'14 games. The derbies, obviously, used to attract higher.

S4C would get about half the viewers, which says a lot.

So what are you saying then ? He's wrong ?

Funny how you are never wrong though Phil, even when you were trying to convince me that Cardiff Blues owned the clubhouse and arms park.

LordDowlais wrote:

So what are you saying then ? He's wrong ?

Funny how you are never wrong though Phil, even when you were trying to convince me that Cardiff Blues owned the clubhouse and arms park.

Ah, you've turned to telling blatant lies. I see.

For the third time, Cardiff Athletic Club own the clubhouse and the Arms Park. I know this as I am a member of CAC and, thus, I am a part owner.

What your thick skull couldn't understand was that the terms of the lease of the Arms Park means that Cardiff Blues gain all income from it. God knows why you couldn't understand that, but this is now the third time I've explained it to you (as a minimum) and the second time you've written an outright lie about it.

Are you a serial liar?

As for Jackson, he's hammed up the point. BBC Wales games regular got viewing figures shy of six figures.

The only liar on here phil is you.

LordDowlais wrote:The only liar on here phil is you.

So give me the link that proves your claim. Can you? Go for it.

Here's one for you on S4C's viewing figures:

https://twitter.com/rugbyPhilBB/status/671952481652490240

And I've schooled you on the benefits claimants in Wales. But you keep being a stereotypical Valleys boy, although Andy Howell is from Gwent....

https://twitter.com/rugbyPhilBB/status/684403957129674752

Here's another on S4C viewing figures.

https://www.606v2.com/t67385-cardiff-blues-hope-for-the-future#3696204

There's me going through the same thing when you lied about last it, Dowlais.

Not really up to playing this game, are you Champ?

https://www.606v2.com/t63846-cardiff-blues-2016-2017#3423334

And here when you tried this trick before.

This seems to be a serial problem with you, Dowlais.

PhilBB wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t67385-cardiff-blues-hope-for-the-future#3696204

There's me going through the same thing when you lied about last it, Dowlais.

Not really up to playing this game, are you Champ?

Bulsh1t phil.

And you know it.

We were having a debate on one of the threads a while ago, you were claiming that you had driven to the Wern, for a look or something. When all you were doing was describing pictures from Google earth. I told you at least we own our own ground and you went off on one saying otherwise.

You changed your tune on that thread. Why don't you look for the original one. Go on.

PhilBB wrote:https://www.606v2.com/t63846-cardiff-blues-2016-2017#3423334

And here when you tried this trick before.

This seems to be a serial problem with you, Dowlais.

Nothing on that thread either, suck it in phillip. Stop lying.

LordDowlais wrote:

The Oracle wrote:You said most of the people in Wales are on the dole or benefits. So about 1.5 million people? Absolute rubbish. Stop making stuff up.

Take a look and enlighten yourself.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/how-many-people-benefits-you-11210175

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/revealed-the-uks-top-10-benefits-hotspots-a6884466.html

The Oracle wrote:And my point from earlier still stands - we are going from 2 televised games per week to 1. How on earth is that going to be the death of the Pro14 in Wales? I never said they should or would start paying for it. I just said that going from 2 games per week to 1 would not make any difference. Why would it?! Take you or me as examples, LD. Are you telling me that Lord Dowlais and The Oracle are going to turn their backs on rugby, take up lawn bowls, get on the hard drugs, because of 1 less game per week being televised? I certainly won't. It'll make no difference to me. Tell us what it is going to do to you?

This is not about the die hard fans like me or you though is it ? It is about the casual fans, the potential fans. These people are going to be lost to the Pro14 in Wales, and if you can be honest, just for once, you will admit that the league is struggling here.

The Oracle wrote:You should work for the Daily Mail with your fake news headlines!

Grow up.

I don’t need to enlighten myself because I already know the figures, roughly. But I took a look anyway. The link says 1 in 7 people claimed benefits in the last 4 years. Now, even if they were ALL on benefits at the same time for that 4 year period (unlikely), 1 in 7 is only around 15%. Not ideal, but miles away from the over 50% (or ‘most’) that your claimed. More fake news.

Anyway, apologies to the other posters. I’ll leave it there for now and will put LD back on ignore, as per moderator advice.

Oops, sorry just noticed that link only refers to 1 county borough in Wales (one of the most deprived where you’d expect the benefits claimants to be higher). So across Wales the rate would be much lower.

I think we’ll be fine dropping 1 televised game on terrestrial TV. No need to run for the doomsday bunker just yet

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

I live in the valleys, have done all my life,

It shows.

Care to elaborate ?

Happy to.

You're insular, poorly researched, heavily reliant on prejudice over fact, prone to make comments using absolute language that lacks nuance and unaware of the approach taken by those outside of a 5 square mile radius of your home.

It's a very Valleys life.

Hence why I call him Lord Bluster, as that is all he is capable of guffing all over the internet

“Most people in Wales are on benefits.”

Jeez what tripe, only some jumped up carpet fitter would claim his hometown is representative for all of Wales. People up that Merthyr way should get out a bit more.

LordDowlais wrote:

Bulsh1t phil.

And you know it.

We were having a debate on one of the threads a while ago, you were claiming that you had driven to the Wern, for a look or something.  When all you were doing was describing pictures from Google earth. I told you at least we own our own ground and you went off on one saying otherwise.

You changed your tune on that thread. Why don't you look for the original one. Go on.

You want to claim it, you prove it. I've already posted the links that proved you to be a liar.

And I go to Merthyr quite often. I don't live that far away from the place. I know it pretty well. I don't need Google earth.

BamBam wrote:

Hence why I call him Lord Bluster, as that is all he is capable of guffing all over the internet

Does he not realise how monumentally stupid he is making himself look?

https://www.606v2.com/t59264p950-merthyr-rfc-set-to-become-new-force-in-welsh-rugby#3423496

This one is a beauty.

LordDowlais wrote:
Funny how you are never wrong though Phil, even when you were trying to convince me that Cardiff Blues owned the clubhouse and arms park.

https://www.606v2.com/t59264p750-merthyr-rfc-set-to-become-new-force-in-welsh-rugby#3271624

Just fundamental proof that you're a bare faced liar.

https://www.606v2.com/t59264p750-merthyr-rfc-set-to-become-new-force-in-welsh-rugby#3271705

Maybe we should post pictures of what happened at CAP for the Champions League final, or for the World Cup fan zone, or for when Danny Boyle was filming at the MS.

Etc.
Etc.

Or maybe I've done enough to prove you to be an idiot and a bare faced liar.

Cracking stuff lads. Full of humour and wit. Pity I'm on my extended holidays away from this nut house or I would have joined in.

You kinda miss the cuffs when they've been off for a while. Have I become institutionalised??? NO!!!!!!!