Scotland's 2018 Summer Tour: Darien Scheme 2.0

First topic message reminder :

Sunday 10th June 2018

Canada Vs Scotland

Sunday 17th June 2018

America Vs Scotland

Saturday 23rd June 2018

Argentina Vs Scotland



With an eye on the summer tour, whilst also keeping in mind the season isn't over for either of our pro teams - who would you "rest" for the summer tour and who would you bring along in their place?

I'd leave Russell, Price, WP Nel, Hogg, Dunbar, Barclay and Huw Jones purely because those guys have had extremely long seasons, are coming back from long term injuries and/or rarely (if ever) get a full pre-season with their clubs under their belts.

Dunbar is made of glass and could probably do with a summer of conditioning, same with WP Nel

Hogg, Jones and Russell have all had long seasons (lions tours/southern hemisphere seasons) and look a bit jaded.

Price is just off form and could do with some down time.

Barclay is getting on - would not like to injure our captain against America/Canada

With a world cup next year giving all of these guys a full pre-season could pay off in the long term.

Would also allow Townsend to have a closer look at Kinghorn, SHC/Horne (ideally take both and tell Fowles to f3ck off), Grigg, Chris Dean/Johnston/Bennett, Fagerson/Berghan/Mccalum, Bradbury.

Thoughts?

Good kick from Hastings  - he's had a promising start

Argentina have been an embarrassment during these summer games.

Serious thrashings await in the four nations.

Argentina are struggling. They could get chucked out of the rugby championship championship

New Zealand are going to destroy them if they can't sort themselves out quickly, it'll be a bloodbath

England and France's World Cup pool looks much easier now

I know Argentina have been awful but horne and Hastings have been so sharp

I'd be a lot happier if we could actually catch some kick offs...

And that's showing how much Hastings has to learn - kick straight to the winger

Great scrum - shows what happens when the ref doesnt give a pen straight away

Brown is having a good game

Great to see so much confidence from Horne and Hastings!

No international side should be conceding that try, thats ridiculous

Are we going to put 50 points on the Pumas ?

Well maybe Toonie does know a thing or two about picking a rugby team!

Your lads are doing their job by beating whats in front of them (very well I might add) but by god the pumas are absolutely shocking.

On this showing George Horne and Adam Hastings may well become the international players we hoped they would. Far from the finished article yet but boy so much potential!

Edinburgh winning the try count 3 to 2

Just saying

Can't fault our attacking endeavour but would like to see a little more control - we're looking a bit loose and trying to score from first phase every time.

Probably can't blame them given we've generally been successful!

We've lost concentration now, too many daft kicks and floaty passes

Argentina were never back 10

Absolute walk in for Dougie Fife

That was far too easy! Great execution though

tigertattie wrote:Edinburgh winning the try count 3 to 2

Just saying

4-2 Edinburgh now

The Glasgow boys need to get their fingers out

Who doesn't love a good set piece move.

Also Denton would've been a good fit for Glasgow.

I'd like to see Ritchie get some decent gametime

Nick Grigg a speed bump in defence - I'm yet to be convinced he's a test class centre!

Why we taking 3? What will we learn from that?

We caught a restart!!!

tigertattie wrote:Why we taking 3? What will we learn from that?

I would have gone for corner

Lovely couple of phases there

Welly wrote: Who doesn't love a good set piece move.

Also Denton would've been a good fit for Glasgow.

Probably more so than he will be for us.

Argentina don't seem to have turned up this week. Can't imagine it's a happy camp at present.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nick Grigg a speed bump in defence - I'm yet to be convinced he's a test class centre!

He and Horne are wobbly imo. We really need Dunbar or Taylor to get fit

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote: Who doesn't love a good set piece move.

Also Denton would've been a good fit for Glasgow.

Probably more so than he will be for us.

Argentina don't seem to have turned up this week. Can't imagine it's a happy camp at present.

Disagree but we will see season starts soon enough.

Might as well give Laing a run out

tigertattie wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Nick Grigg a speed bump in defence - I'm yet to be convinced he's a test class centre!

He and Horne are wobbly imo. We really need Dunbar or Taylor to get fit

Absolutely - or Matt Scott if he finds form with Edinburgh

We've lost our shape since changing the front row.

Drop in intensity perhaps with the game won?

Chris Harris has a very odd style of tackling, he seems to just fall into people!

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Chris Harris has a very odd style of tackling, he seems to just fall into people!

He's done nothing to show me that he's international quality

We're lacking a consistent quality centre pairing and an all round no 8. Other than that, things look good

Come on let's get 50

Well the second half was pish.

To me that's the difference between us and the teams truly at the top of the pecking order. If that was NZ out there in the second half they'd have put Argentina to the sword.

Disappointed we didn't get 50. Pretty poor second half tbh, obviously Argentina played a lot better but we didn't play much smart rugby in that 2nd half.

Great result though obviously, and I think we've learnt a fair amount about some of these young players. Probably mainly that we need our first choice centre options back fit!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Come on let's get 50

What the F@&k hogg? Could have kicked it up and gone for the 50

Hate to say it but the Glasgow contingent haven't pulled their weight (bar a few solo efforts from brown and Jr Horne)

Well that was a pumping! Difficult to know what to make of it given just how bad Argentina were, but we did a lot of good things out there. We massively dropped the intensity in the second half but that was to be expected so far ahead and the last game of a long season.

Plus points to Mcinally, Gilchrist, Bradbury, Denton, Horne, Hastings and Hogg. Fagerson made positive impact off the bench which was good to see.

Really not not convinced that midfield though

tigertattie wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Come on let's get 50

What the F@&k hogg? Could have kicked it up and gone for the 50

Hate to say it but the Glasgow contingent haven't pulled their weight (bar a few solo efforts from brown and Jr Horne)

It was a good decision IMO. The boys were knackered and we had a huge win to finish on. No points risking injury trying to get 50.

Well job done, more than done really and despite the USA game, that was a successful tour.

The game was over at half time and the weather was awful so not surprising that it all got loose and feel to bits a little.

The best thing though was the bounce back from last week and the way we started the game. Just what Toonie would have asked for and we would have taken that scoreline any day of the week.

Welly wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

Welly wrote: Who doesn't love a good set piece move.

Also Denton would've been a good fit for Glasgow.

Probably more so than he will be for us.

Argentina don't seem to have turned up this week. Can't imagine it's a happy camp at present.

Disagree but we will see season starts soon enough.

Well I'll be delighted if he proves me wrong and becomes a roaring success. Sadly I think it'll be a Richie Gray to Sale type of signing.

So what have we/Townsend learned from this tour? It has been a strange one - some players have definitely stepped up to the plate with others not, but the way the games have panned out make it difficult to really know what these players have. Canada and Argentina were glorified training games at times so while it was great to see attacking ambition we don't know if this can be achieved in a test of proper intensity. The one proper test against USA we lost, and Townsend will have learnt he can't put such an inexperienced team out against anyone and expect to win.

It is always difficult to judge how a summer tour will affect the next season as so much can change before the autumn tests. Saying that, in my mind it does firm up a few things in my head:

Front row


I like the Dell-Mcinally-Berghan combination and they're probably our first choice - a good combination of power and athleticism. We have an embarrassment of riches at hooker with Brown and Turner backup, but I don't think we've nailed down the reserve props yet. Bhatti has mainly fulfilled that role this season but mainly because the other candidates have been injured - I can see him losing his place if they return. Fagerson needs a big season next year as his development has definitely stalled. All going well we'll have a fully fit Nel back too.

Second row 

I think it's fair to say the much maligned Gilchrist has earned his place as a test starter. He's had a superb season and is finally showing consistent form and making an impact on games. Jonny Gray will hopefully benefit from his summer off and have a barnstorming season next season. Ritchie Gray has a lot of ground to make up having missed the entire Townsend era but we know he can do it. They are certainly our top 3 with Toolis, Swinson and the youngsters coming through competing for the last 2 spots for the world cup. 

Back row 

Bradbury IMO has cemented his place at blindside in Barclay's absence. He was great against Canada and Argentina - so physical and a great carrier. If he keeps this up Barclay may find his place under threat! Watson is still out first choice 7 but Ritchie has shown he is comfortable at this level, without really taking his chance. At 8 it has been nice to see a player in Denton that is actually able to carry and get over the gainline! Yes he has hands like t!ts but when surrounded by a skillful pack I think we can live with that. At international level you need power up front and that backrow gives you that in bucketfulls. Hamilton was a little underwhelming but he'll be right in the shop window with Edinburgh. Matt Fagerson is one for the future but this world cup is probably too soon for him.

Halfbacks 

George Horne has probably been the find of the tour. He offers so much threat from 9 and runs great lines. He's like Ali Price on speed! He's probably overtaken Price in the pecking order. SHC was solid and again looked comfortable without really standing out. At 10 Hastings showed the potential he has and I hope he gets regular gametime next season to really develpd his game. He should be Russell's backup for Scotland and hopefully is given another start in the AIs. 

Centre 

Probably our weakest unit on the tour. I think it's fair to say that if our only  centre options available are Horne, Grigg, Laing and Harris then we are really going to struggle in the 6N and world cup. This tour has shown that we need at least one of Taylor or Dunbar for their physicality and defensive ability. Hopefully Matt Scott can come back into the mix with regular gametime at Edinburgh. Huw Jones will probably remain our top 13 with Bennett an option too after a good pre-season and more gametime. So on the face of it we have a lot of depth but we are relient on a few key players being available.

Back 3 

2 positions are easy - Kinghorn and Hogg! Kinghorn has adapted to test rugby with ease and looks so comfortable. Seymour and Maitland would add good balance to the combo, with Jones, Mcguigan and Fife fighting for the best of the rest, without truly being test class.

So here's my team for the AIs assuming everyone bar Barclay is fit (a big assumption for Taylor and Dunbar!)

1 Dell
2 Mcinally
3 Berghan
4 Gray
5 Gilchrist
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Denton

9 Horne
10 Russell
11 Kinghorn
12 Taylor
13 Jones
14 Maitland
15 Hogg

Subs - Marfo, Brown, Nel, Gray, Wilson, Laidlaw, Hastings, Dunbar

That's a pretty good summary RDW.

If George Horne was the find of the tour though, I'd say George Turner was not so far behind him. He showed up well in all three games he played and is now definitely in the hooker mix. Given how fragile Frazer Brown seems to be, that is no bad thing. Hastings as well will surely get a decent run at 10 now and will be a much better player in a years time, just look how Georgie has come on with regular game time.

Bennett showed signs of his old form on tour and will hopefully come back into the picture for the 13 shirt, which will be a battle between him and Huw Jones. Chris Harris did not play badly and may be better defensively that both of them, but does not seem to possess the x factor that they do.

James Lang showed a bit of promise and skill but did not get to many chances. He really needs to nail down a starting spot at Quins at 12 to come into the picture. In time he may do that, he looks like he may well have the tools.

Kinghorn has now surely nailed down a wing spot and Seymour and Maitland are going to have to fight for the other. We are starting to put together a little bit of depth in the back three as well now.

All in all a very positive tour, despite the loss in Houston. I think the newer players and the coaches will take a lot away from it.

They all need to go and have a long rest now, next year is going to be a very long season.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44593506

Decent sum up from Tom English

Argentina are genuinely woeful, for the first time in living memory it would be plausible to say they're position as the dominant Rugby force in the Americas is under threat. Hopefully, the USA's victory over us will be the catalyst Rugby needs in the country. Especially with Pro Rugby finally taking off over there.

With Scotland in mind, I don't think the Tour told us much at all, two of the teams were utterly dreadful. The biggest loser from the tour is Ali Price, in my mind now he's third choice but his issue is that at Glasgow he may well have slipped behind Horne too, and as a similar player to Horne himself he may find it difficult to get ahead of Pyrgos who offers something different. Hidalgo-Clyne is coming back to form and it may be that his move to Scarlets is enough to take him back to and even above his previous best. In effect Ali Price needs to fix himself up or risk missing the world cup (something unthinkable twelve months ago).

Hastings hasn't done enough to cement himself as second choice but he's certainly on his way there. With regard to our centres there is a massive drop off from our first choices and the squad players, I do think the prospect of Taylor and Jones playing in the centre with an in form Russell and Hogg is frightening. Horne I am still not convinced about defensively. Grigg I think has struggled when playing in Internationals, the Champions Cup and play-offs. If Bennett gets back to his best I think ideally we'd take Taylor, Jones, Horne, Dunbar and Bennett to the World Cup.

Again I'm not sure that over the last 12 months Seymour has been at his best and I think it's him, not Maitland, that should be worried about his place. That said he'll get a break this summer which should rejuvenate him.

I don't think much has changed in terms of our forwards. Denton perhaps being the major beneficiary, although I think his difficulty in getting picked for Scotland may be not his form but the type of player he is. His hands simply aren't good enough however he provides a bit of grunt that we have been lacking at points.

As things stand and if all were fit and firing this would be the team I'd be taking looking into next year and beyond

1. Dell
2. MacInally
3. Nel
4. Gray
5. Gray
6. Bradbury (Barclay when he's fit)
7. Watson
8. Denton
9. Horne
10. Russell
11. Kinghorn
12. Taylor
13. Jones
14. Maitland
15. Hogg

16. Marfo
17. Brown
18. Berghan
19. Gilchrist
20. Wilson
21. Laidlaw
22. Hastings
23. Seymour