Wales Summer Tour

First topic message reminder :

Original opening post answered, changed to tour thread...:

So Welsh summer squad has been anounced as :-

Wales squad

Forwards: Rob Evans (Scarlets) (25 Caps), Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (18 Caps), Elliot Dee (Dragons) (7 Caps), Ryan Elias (Scarlets) (2 Caps), Rhodri Jones (Ospreys) (16 Caps), Samson Lee (Scarlets) (38 Caps), Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (2 Caps), Tomas Francis (Exeter Chiefs) (31 Caps), Adam Beard (Ospreys) (2 Caps), Bradley Davies (Ospreys) (62 Caps), Seb Davies (Cardiff Blues) (4 Caps), Aaron Wainwright (Dragons) (*uncapped), Cory Hill (Dragons) (15 Caps), James Davies (Scarlets) (1 Cap), Ellis Jenkins (Cardiff Blues) (6 Caps), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester) (20 Caps), Josh Turnbull (Cardiff Blues) (8 Caps).

Backs: Aled Davies (Scarlets) (8 Caps),  Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (32 Caps), Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (*uncapped), Gareth Anscombe (Cardiff Blues) (15 Caps), Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (8 Caps), Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (6 Caps), Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (4 Caps), Scott Williams (Scarlets) (55 Caps), Josh Adams (Worcester Warriors) (2 Caps), Hallam Amos (Dragons) (15 Caps), George North (Ospreys) (73 Caps), Tom Prydie (Scarlets) (5 Caps).

Red indicated "call-up".

Withdrawn from Original Named Squad or replaced due to injury:  Luke Charteris (Bath) (74 Caps), Josh Navidi (Cardiff Blues) (11 Caps), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (17 Caps), Steff Evans (Scarlets) (9 Caps), Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (8 Caps).


2018 summer tour schedule
Saturday, 2 June KO 2200hrs BST [1700hrs local]

South Africa 20 - 22 Wales (Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium, Washington, USA)

Team details:

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Saturday, 9 June KO 2040hrs BST [1640hrs local]

Argentina 10 - 23 Wales (San Juan del Bicentenario Stadium, San Juan)

Team details:

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Saturday, 16 June KO 2040hrs BST [1640hrs local]

Argentina 12 - 30 Wales (Estadio Brigadier López, Santa Fe)

Team details:

TV Coverage reported by WOL to be Channel 4, in their first outing into Rugby coverage before they take on some European coverage next season.

So... thread open for discussion on the Wales Summer tour 2018.


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So 3 out of 3. Great Summer Tour, have we learned anything, are Wales and England "Poles apart"...

Great game, so many 606ers missed out on a classic match winning try

Well done Wales. Pity about Staff Evans injury

Again SA are their own worse enemy. Get good positions and then mess up and go back 20-30 meters

Worst game of rugby I have seen in years. Ho many errors? Knock ons, charge downs, just rubbish.

Well it improved towards the end...

Thought South Africa's replacements had sewn the game up, but a freak double chargedown gets Wales' summer off to a good start. Impressed by the Welsh 7, otherwise it was very 'meh'.

The Oracle wrote:

tigertattie wrote:It's a bit of an odd stadium with either end missing the lower tier of seats!

Just google-imaged it and the stadium is used a lot for baseball. Looks like they fill one lower tier with sponsors advertising when in baseball setup as they often film from behind the batter/towards the pitcher with a nice big wall of advertising in the background.

Wiki says they use this stadium for pretty much every sport going! Fair play!

......and The Beatles.

Was a very poor first 30mins but after that the game went well. The young Wales 9 (Tomos Williams?) looked very good. Nippy and very strong.

A well deserved victory in the end.

Fantastic thread, during the game mind.

Terrible game. Was very glad I stayed up until 03:30 my time for it.

Gatland absolutely shafted Rhodri Jones again and also the way he treated Aaron Wainwright is terrible too, leaving it too late to get him on and as a result he didn't get a cap. We can't pretend to be precious about handing them out when the whole "test" had caps rewarded. There's no reason why he couldn't have replaced either Davies or even Cory Hill who made at least a couple of mistakes. Pretty similar to what he did to Ollie Griffiths (who after that is probably now glad he did at least get on the field).

eirebilly wrote:Was a very poor first 30mins but after that the game went well. The young Wales 9 (Tomos Williams?) looked very good. Nippy and very strong.

A well deserved victory in the end.

Thought he made some pretty basic mistakes. It was a very poor game but too sides with plenty of potential.

SA seem to be the best in the world at shooting themselves in the foot. Criminal try to concede in the end.

TJ wrote:Worst game of rugby I have seen in years.  Ho many errors?  Knock ons, charge downs, just rubbish.

In years? Most games against France are much worse. Anyway, there’s no need for you to worry TJ as Wales will have more players back by the time your rabble show up in Cardiff for another good battering. Are Scotland playing SA soon? I think they’ll probably turn you over as well.

I’m not under any illusions regarding this match, it was poor from two scratch teams. SA used to be able to make that many changes and still look like the boks - how unfortunate to see them go backwards. On the other hand Wales are now making wholesale changes and winning. That’s good news for us. I still think we lose a lot without guys like Webb, Patchell, Shingler and Navidi - I’d love for them to all be available but ah well.

Francis and Adams added to the squad. I think this also would have been a good opportunity for the mercurial Jarrod Evans, you know just that 21 year old keeping Anscombe out of the Cardiff 10 jersey.

mikey_dragon wrote:

I’m not under any illusions regarding this match, it was poor from two scratch teams. SA used to be able to make that many changes and still look like the boks - how unfortunate to see them go backwards. On the other hand Wales are now making wholesale changes and winning. That’s good news for us. I still think we lose a lot without guys like Webb, Patchell, Shingler and Navidi - I’d love for them to all be available but ah well.

This.

A lot of people rubbish Gatland but he is an excellent coach. Over the years, under his tenure, I have seen new players come into the Welsh side and fit in seamlessly. This can only be achieved by good coaching of the fringe players. Its something that I rate highly in Schmidt as well.

There is strength in depth in Wales.

Wales put out just as inexperienced side as South Africa and yet still won.

Eirebilly -I’m really not sure how you can praise Gatland for the depth in Wales. Truth is we have been turning out w fair amount of decent players since the regional systems really kicked in (remember we went regional in 03, and now we are starting to reap those rewards).

Maybe I was not clear in what I was saying ScarletSpiderman. There is strength in depth in Wales due to the regional setup but that is not the same level as International. Gatland gets praise for working behind the scenes getting these strong players at regional level into International level in order to fit in seamlessly.

I see a major difference between strength in depth at regional/provincial level than strength in depth at International level. I think Gatland deserves a lot of credit for the strength in depth at International level.

For me Gatland has actually contributed to the lack of depth over the years. Only this year in the 6N when his hand was really forced did he bring in a load of new players and they stepped up to the plate. We've now got some good looking depth. But for years Gatland only chose his favourites, even when out of form. And his old favourite line - when a player has a stinker, or two, or three, they are "given a chance to redeem themselves" (or multiple chances) when a fit and in form player is waiting patiently in the wings to get a shot. Happened for years and meant that, when we did have injuries crises, those players were just chucked in at short notice and knew they weren't really first choice and were just covering.

Saying that, I do think Gats (and every other international coach) is in a tough position. I've seen loads of arguments on here where we've criticised Gats for putting out 2nd string sides (e.g. the 'lesser' AI game), cheapening the jersey, etc. So he can't win! However, I think it's more that over the years he hasn't always picked on form so the 15 or so favourites got all of the experience and the form guys weren't given that exposure. How often have we called for Cuthbert to be dropped for someone in form?! It was almost cruel at one stage picking him when he was so woefully out of form!

But lately (last year or so) he seems to be relaxing this a bit. Cuthbert has been dropped; he's picking Dragons players (haha!); he's changing the game plan (how anyone can say "oh look it's Warrenball again" is beyond me - we're miles away from Warrenball now). Overall, it's led to a bit more depth as we now have perhaps 2 players in each position who are comfortable at this level and where the drop off between first and 2nd choice is not as great as it once was. Only 2 or 3 years ago, if we lost one of the starting 15 we'd be resigned to failure. Now, there's good options on the bench. In the backrow we can pick about 3 different units which all have their strengths and weaknesses as a unit, which is great. Horses for courses, and all that.

From what I saw of the match the two key phases were the aftermath of the first Wales try and the lead up to the last.

In both cases Wales played smart and kept up the pressure and SA crumbled. Prior to the 1st Wales try you could argue SA were on top, just unable to score points, but it all changed very quickly.

I think Steff Evan's injury needs looking at by a citing panel - attempted trip then a possibly late tackle has ruled him out for some time. Prydie is also crocked.

munkian wrote:I think Steff Evan's injury needs looking at by a citing panel - attempted trip then a possibly late tackle has ruled him out for some time. Prydie is also crocked.

The tackle was not late, contact had been made before he kicked the ball (imo). Did look like an attempted trip, though not the first in the game. This is something that has crept into the game in general I feel - so far without comment. Often seen when players are wrong footed.

LondonTiger wrote:

munkian wrote:I think Steff Evan's injury needs looking at by a citing panel - attempted trip then a possibly late tackle has ruled him out for some time. Prydie is also crocked.

The tackle was not late, contact had been made before he kicked the ball (imo). Did look like an attempted trip, though not the first in the game. This is something that has crept into the game in general I feel - so far without comment. Often seen when players are wrong footed.

Fairy enough, I had drunk quite a lot by then, who puts a match on at 2200 ?

Warren Gatland: Politics stopped players being released for South Africa game - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44349637

Bit of feedback from gatland on international windows and people who thought this test was a waste of time.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Warren Gatland: Politics stopped players being released for South Africa game - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44349637

Bit of feedback from gatland on international windows and people who thought this test was a waste of time.

While the main reason that PRL clubs will not release players outside of the windows is to protect the monies they get from RFU for doing the same thing biennially, there is also the issue of insurance. I believe that WRU will not pay for the players released to be insured for these games (as that is too close to agreeing payment for release). However the clubs own insurance does not cover them for injuries occurring outside of the club's control. Thus if Josh Adams had been playing instead of Steff Evans and incurred a significant injury either him or Worcester would be seriously out of pocket for the entire recovery period.

LondonTiger wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Warren Gatland: Politics stopped players being released for South Africa game - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44349637

Bit of feedback from gatland on international windows and people who thought this test was a waste of time.

While the main reason that PRL clubs will not release players outside of the windows is to protect the monies they get from RFU for doing the same thing biennially, there is also the issue of insurance. I believe that WRU will not pay for the players released to be insured for these games (as that is too close to agreeing payment for release). However the clubs own insurance does not cover them for injuries occurring outside of the club's control. Thus if Josh Adams had been playing instead of Steff Evans and incurred a significant injury either him or Worcester would be seriously out of pocket for the entire recovery period.

Is that really right about the insurance bit? Do you just mean for English based players? Or were the whole Wales squad in Washington not insured either?!

I'd imagine as soon as a player goes into Wales camp he is insured by Wales under Wales' own policy. But I only base this on my own guesswork so could be miles off.

Just the English based players afaik.

The situation may have changed, but previously Welsh based players had a WRU backed policy while ploicies were only put in place during International Windows for expats

tigertattie wrote:Great camera shot there of the back of the Welsh tighthead during that penalty kick

Highlight of the match.

Who is likely to feature against Argentina?

LondonTiger wrote:Who is likely to feature against Argentina?

All the turks will be back. Will quite possibly be a new front row if Samson is fit.

I'd have Patchel at 10, Anscombe at 15, G Davies at 9.

Start Parkes in the centre with SW or Watkins.

Wings I'd have North and Amos.

EDIT

Actually, forgot Josh Adams has been called up, keep Amos at 15, Adams on the Wing, Patch at 10 and Anscombe on the bench.

The fail said something like

Amos, Adams, Williams, Parkes, North, Patchell, G Davies;
Evans, Elias, Lee/Francis, Bradley Davies, Turnbull, Cubby, Moriarty

Due to the ‘everyone will play’ stuff Gats has come out with.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The fail said something like

Amos, Adams, Williams, Parkes, North, Patchell, G Davies;
Evans, Elias, Lee/Francis, Bradley Davies, Turnbull, Cubby, Moriarty

Due to the ‘everyone will play’ stuff Gats has come out with.

So neither captain is starting then? I really hope it isn’t Turnbull. Seb Davies plays well enough at 6, plus is smarter and quicker. Otherwise it’s not such a bad team. I’d be happy for Elias to get a start, he’s a very talented player.

mikey_dragon wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The fail said something like

Amos, Adams, Williams, Parkes, North, Patchell, G Davies;
Evans, Elias, Lee/Francis, Bradley Davies, Turnbull, Cubby, Moriarty

Due to the ‘everyone will play’ stuff Gats has come out with.

So neither captain is starting then? I really hope it isn’t Turnbull. Seb Davies plays well enough at 6, plus is smarter and quicker. Otherwise it’s not such a bad team. I’d be happy for Elias to get a start, he’s a very talented player.

If you look I missed a lock, that’d be Hill. Sorry.

Not my team, but the dude the fail said would be playing.

Bolox to the fail is what I say. Anyway I think the best team we can put out, as Lee is inured is:

Amos, Adams, Williams, Parkes, North, Patchell, Davies, Moriarty, Jenkins, Seb Davies, Bradley Davies, Hill, Francis, Dee, Evans.
Bench: Elias, Smith, Rh Jones, Beard, Cubby, Tomos Williams, Anscombe, Watkin.

Really looking forward to another exciting game from Wales. Will Gatland unleash a game-plan of hell and fury on the Argies?

Wow the fail were miles off with the team they expected.

Wales: Hallam Amos; Josh Adams, Scott Williams, Hadleigh Parkes, George North; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Adam Beard, Cory Hill (capt), Seb Davies, James Davies, Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Josh Turnbull, Aaron Wainwright, Aled Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wales: Hallam Amos; Josh Adams, Scott Williams, Hadleigh Parkes, George North; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies; Wyn Jones, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Adam Beard, Cory Hill (capt), Seb Davies, James Davies, Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Josh Turnbull, Aaron Wainwright, Aled Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin.

Like the backs.
Worried our pack will be bullied in the loose and in the scrum.
Should be Seb and Hill in the boiler room and Wainwright,Moriarty and Ellis in the backrow for me.

I’m guessing a bit as it haven’t been watching them, but I imagine the Argies will be very strong up front in the set piece, etc. Our tight five immediately jumps out at me and says ‘under powered’, but perhaps some more knowledgable posters can put my mind at rest. Is Beard a powerhouse lock? Is Wyn Jones a strong scrummager? What about Dillon Lewis? Back row - good carrying options? Moriarty likes a scrap but not sure he carries too far? Haven’t seen much of Seb Davies, but is he a carrying option at 6? Cubby can run in space and on the wing, but in the tight?

Looks to me like they might go for a Scarlets-type open field game plan and try to run the Argies around. Think the Argies will be a match for that too though. Going to be tough.

Cross posted there Munk. Agree re worries about the pack.

The Oracle wrote:Cross posted there Munk. Agree re worries about the pack.

Dee is usually a fairly strong scrumager - I'm not sure what happened last week.

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Cross posted there Munk. Agree re worries about the pack.

Dee is usually a fairly strong scrumager - I'm not sure what happened last week.

Lack of a decent set of props doesn’t help him.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Cross posted there Munk. Agree re worries about the pack.

Dee is usually a fairly strong scrumager - I'm not sure what happened last week.

Lack of a decent set of props doesn’t help him.

Agreed. Put Dee alongside Evans and Lee and it would be fine. I would worry about Lewis' inexperience, but then again I can't pretend to be Francis' biggest fan, so maybe Lewis is a better option.

RiscaGame wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:Cross posted there Munk. Agree re worries about the pack.

Dee is usually a fairly strong scrumager - I'm not sure what happened last week.

Lack of a decent set of props doesn’t help him.

Agreed. Put Dee alongside Evans and Lee and it would be fine. I would worry about Lewis' inexperience, but then again I can't pretend to be Francis' biggest fan, so maybe Lewis is a better option.

I don’t rate Lewis. I think he’s going to end up another Hobbs/Andrews propelled into the shirt due to lack of other options, and end up being badly exposed. However, we are meant to be looking to try and build depth, so it’s onlt fair to give him a run in the position to see if he grows into it. We know what Francis can do, so I hope Brown gets a start with Rob and Dee/Ellias next week too.

I didn't think Brown was touring?

He's not.

Injured

Yeah total brain fart there, I mean Lewis for next week. God knows why I typed Brown. Lewis is poor, but hopefully come good. Brown is good and will hopefully have an uninsured spell to prove it.

You typed Brown because you know he's the better prospect

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You typed Brown because you know he's the better prospect

I think it must’ve been an “if brown were fit this wouldn’t be an issue” thought

Posted team selections.

Have to say, I don't know the Pumas well, so not really sure if this is their first string side or not. But I hope its a better game than last week...

No9 wrote:Posted team selections.

Have to say, I don't know the Pumas well, so not really sure if this is their first string side or not. But I hope its a better game than last week...

It will be, sides are much more settled, crowd will be well up for it and the conditions are much better - mid teens and dry.

Good to see an ex Dragons player on the Argie line up - good old Tetaz Chaparro! Another player that the Dragons couldn’t get the best out of yet seems good enough for the international front row!

The Oracle wrote:Good to see an ex Dragons player on the Argie line up - good old Tetaz Chaparro! Another player that the Dragons couldn’t get the best out of yet seems good enough for the international front row!

He played like 4 games then got a long red card lay off from what I remember.

Those poor Argies don't stand a chance in this game as the Ref was born in Cardiff!

World Rugby is a Farce for allowing this to happen.