20th Gathering of Edinburgh and Glasgow Discussion

by Hazel Sapling Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:19 am

Edinburgh Squad

LH's: Schoeman, Dell, Marfo, Sutherland
Hookers: McInally, Ford, Fenton, Cherry
TH's: Nel, Berghan, McCallum, Ceccarelli
Second Row: Gilchrist, Toolis, McKenzie, Carmichael, Hunter-Hill
Back Row: Barclay, Hamilton, Crosbie; Watson, Ritchie; Bradbury, Mata, Miller, Nayalo

SH's: Pyrgos, Fowles, Kennedy, Shiel
FH's: Hickey, VDW, McLelland, Baggott
Centres: Scott, Socino, Bennett, Dean, Johnstone, G Taylor
Back 3: Fife, VDM, Hoyland, Brown, Graham; Kinghorn

Forward Total: 26
- Internationals: 16 (14 Scots, 1 Italian, 1 Fijian)
- NSQ: 4 (1 of whom is a project)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 7 (2 capped)
Backs Total: 20
- Internationals: 8 (Socino lone non-Scot)
- NSQ: 4 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 10 (2 capped)

Total: 46

Glasgow Squad

LH's: Bhatti, Allan, Kebble
Hookers: Brown, Turner, Stewart, Bryce
TH's: Fagerson, Nuka, Rae, Nicol
Second Row: Gray, Swinson, Cummings, McDonald, Brian, Peterson, Davidson
Back-Row: M Fagerson, Harley; Gibbins, Smith, Fusaro; Wilson, Ashe, Tameilau, Flockhart

SH's: Price, G Horne,Frisby, Mata, Baletto
FH's: Horne, Hastings, Jackson
Centres: Dunbar, H Jones, Johnson, Dunbar, Grigg, P Kelly
Back 3: Seymour, VDM, L Jones, Masaga, Tagive, Hughes, Beattie, Nairn; Hogg, Thomson

Forward Total: 27
- Internationals: 15 (12 Scots, 2 Americans, 1 Tongan)
- NSQ: 6 (2 projects)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 11 (4 capped, both projects)
Backs Total: 24
- Internationals: 14 (10 Scots, 1 Fijian, 1 Kiwi, 1 Canadian, 1 Aussie)
- NSQ: 4 (No projects if Thomson is already tied to SA)
- Under 25 (as of September 1st, 2018): 8 (1 capped)

Total: 51

Overall: 97 players
- Internationals: 53 (43 Scots)
- NSQ: 19 (5 projects)
- Under 25: 36 (9 capped)

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:54 am

Thanks HS. We can add Callum Mcclelland as a standoff option for us - he scored a great try against Argentina at the weekend. He's got a good all-round game but is quite small - will be interesting to see how he develops.

Squad looks pretty good with 9 being the obvious exception!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:26 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Thanks HS. We can add Callum Mcclelland as a standoff option for us - he scored a great try against Argentina at the weekend. He's got a good all-round game but is quite small - will be interesting to see how he develops.

Squad looks pretty good with 9 being the obvious exception!

Shame the U20s set-piece seems to be letting them down but agree he definitely had a few nice touches and a couple of great kicks. He certainly couldn't do harm behind the Edinburgh pack, and it would be good to see how he interplays with Dean and Bennett.

The amount Cockers talks up Hickey, I'd be concerned about him getting any gametime to be honest. Especially with VdW doing pretty well at the moment. There's a third spot up for grabs though, has anyone watched Baggott recently?

by tigertattie Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:38 pm

Is it too early to do season predictions?

1872 Cup Winners - Edinburgh

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:40 pm

Haven't seen Baggott play but he has been a regular for Melrose - time for him to step up.

Hickey is our biggest signing but it will definitely take him a while to get up to speed - I think we need to keep realistic expectations to begin with! Hopefully we're getting him from teh start of pre-season.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:51 pm

tigertattie wrote:Is it too early to do season predictions?

1872 Cup Winners - Edinburgh

On the current trajectory of both sides, probably!

Will be interesting to see if Glasgow sans Finn are any more pragmatic and if Rennie adapts his team management, otherwise it could be a long season as I feel this year Glasgow's weaknesses have been well exposed and exploited by better sides.

I can only see Edinburgh improving but they could do with a couple of pivots if they want to hit the next level, the primary issue being at scrum-half, I feel the depth at fly-half should be much better. Maybe 2018/19 will be Sheil's breakthrough season?

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 12:58 pm

Richie Vernon has sound for London Scottish!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Richie Vernon has sound for London Scottish!

Big signing for them.

The question is where is he going to be playing on the field?

They need all the help they can get at LS!

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:03 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Richie Vernon has sound for London Scottish!

He's started a new career installing audiovisual equipment?

by Welly Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:03 pm

McLelland only 18 so would be amazed if he was in cockers plans for this season coming up.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:06 pm

Welly wrote:McLelland only 18 so would be amazed if he was in cockers plans for this season coming up.

To be fair I think Cockers is more than happy to give players a chance if he thinks they're good enough.

Stranger things have happened!

by Hazel Sapling Mon 04 Jun 2018, 1:19 pm

In looking at the u25's in the 2 squads, there are a fair few guys who are younger than expected. The one that got me was Ritchie is still 21 until August.

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:05 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
Welly wrote:McLelland only 18 so would be amazed if he was in cockers plans for this season coming up.

To be fair I think Cockers is more than happy to give players a chance if he thinks they're good enough.

Stranger things have happened!

Cameron Redpath getting called into the England senior squad at the same age!

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:06 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:In looking at the u25's in the 2 squads, there are a fair few guys who are younger than expected. The one that got me was Ritchie is still 21 until August.

He was signed into a senior contract straight out of school!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:35 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
Welly wrote:McLelland only 18 so would be amazed if he was in cockers plans for this season coming up.

To be fair I think Cockers is more than happy to give players a chance if he thinks they're good enough.

Stranger things have happened!

Cameron Redpath getting called into the England senior squad at the same age!

Well he is a professional already, sure he won't have his debut until at least the end of this year but that's not the point. Morris Dancing Messiah angel

by tigertattie Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:44 pm

God knows that Scotland need all the help we can get at 10 so fingers crossed that McLelland can make the step up.

I'm not saying to start the boy, and I don't sign up to FES's (who is still AWOL it seems) mantra of having to play 1000 + hours of pro rugby before getting Scotland honours. I've very much "if you're good enough you're old enough". But we can't rush the boy!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:51 pm

tigertattie wrote:God knows that Scotland need all the help we can get at 10 so fingers crossed that McLelland can make the step up.

I'm not saying to start the boy, and I don't sign up to FES's (who is still AWOL it seems) mantra of having to play 1000 + hours of pro rugby before getting Scotland honours. I've very much "if you're good enough you're old enough". But we can't rush the boy!

I'm reserving judgement on our 10 situation until after summer tour. If Hastings can muscle his way into the reckoning as second choice that'd be great. If Lang proves that he's predominantly a decent 10 and not a 12, that'd be even better.

Interesting reading an interview with Simon Hickey saying playing in France improved his tactical kicking game, take note Finn.

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:53 pm

Where'd you see that interview Nelly?

As like most parts of Finn's game when he's on it his tactical kicking is actually really good. When he's not (see Wales and France a few months ago) it is bloody awful. He won't survive in the Top 14 if he carries on that maddening inconsistency.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:57 pm

https://theoffsideline.com/exclusive-kiwi-stand-off-simon-hickey-signed-edinburgh/

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:59 pm

Thanks. And he said all that before Edinburgh actually became good!

by EWT Spoons Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:09 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
Welly wrote:McLelland only 18 so would be amazed if he was in cockers plans for this season coming up.

To be fair I think Cockers is more than happy to give players a chance if he thinks they're good enough.

Stranger things have happened!

Really not sure on McLelland, he's still learning the position since moving from league. But he's on a full contract, rather than EDP, which might suggest they see him more than an academy player. BUT we also have Jaco and Hickey at 10 next season, with Baggott, and Kinghorn (if desperate) so fairly well stocked for depth

So in summary, I have no idea - I should make that my auto sig.

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:26 pm

Don't get me wrong we've only got a few under 20s games to go on so he's still got a lot of developing to do. He's certainly got swagger and confidence - matched with a good base skillset - so hopefully he gets some opportunities in the next couple of seasons. There is a good chance we're not going to see him at all in the coming season though.

by Hazel Sapling Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:28 pm

Got to think Hickey and VDW will need breaks (preferably tiredness, not injury). McLelland will get chances and Cockerill does not seem like the type who will play a big money signing for the sake of it.

Would Baggott get a loan to Stade or LS to start the season? A year away from Super Six franchises and he could do with some gametime early in the season at least.

Looking at the size of the squads, can't see there being many more signings. Maybe a LH at Glasgow, and a back-rower and scrum half at Edinburgh

by **BigGee** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:39 pm

Well Glasgow have certainly been promised a few new players and the sense of anticipation has been deafening!

Maybe it is going to have to wait until everyone is back from their holidays to get some action on that front. You would have thought though with all the bad feeling going around Glasgow about being stitched up on the away derbies, that a bit of good news on the transfer front might sweeten the pill.

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:46 pm

BigGee wrote:Well Glasgow have certainly been promised a few new players and the sense of anticipation has been deafening!

Maybe it is going to have to wait until everyone is back from their holidays to get some action on that front. You would have thought though with all the bad feeling going around Glasgow about being stitched up on the away derbies, that a bit of good news on the transfer front might sweeten the pill.

The best signing Glasgow could make is a new forwards coach to be honest

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:49 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well Glasgow have certainly been promised a few new players and the sense of anticipation has been deafening!

Maybe it is going to have to wait until everyone is back from their holidays to get some action on that front. You would have thought though with all the bad feeling going around Glasgow about being stitched up on the away derbies, that a bit of good news on the transfer front might sweeten the pill.

The best signing Glasgow could make is a new forwards coach to be honest

This.

by tigertattie Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:00 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well Glasgow have certainly been promised a few new players and the sense of anticipation has been deafening!

Maybe it is going to have to wait until everyone is back from their holidays to get some action on that front. You would have thought though with all the bad feeling going around Glasgow about being stitched up on the away derbies, that a bit of good news on the transfer front might sweeten the pill.

The best signing Glasgow could make is a new forwards coach to be honest

This.

can't argue there!

Take Icckle Jonny out of the Glasgow pack and they really are urine poor!

in no way would I advocate this now but last year Glasgow should have taken Cockers and Edinburgh should have taken Rennie. Then both coaches would be able to work on the weaker areas of either team!

I'm not sure of the legalites of it all, but could the teams do a joint training session during preseason? Cockers taking both teams forwards adn Rennie taking both teams backs?

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:02 pm

They're all SRU employees so there wouldn't be any issue with legalities! Would certainly add a bit of spice to the sessions.

As long as they hold it at Murrayfield... Run

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
NeilyBroon wrote:
BigGee wrote:Well Glasgow have certainly been promised a few new players and the sense of anticipation has been deafening!

Maybe it is going to have to wait until everyone is back from their holidays to get some action on that front. You would have thought though with all the bad feeling going around Glasgow about being stitched up on the away derbies, that a bit of good news on the transfer front might sweeten the pill.

The best signing Glasgow could make is a new forwards coach to be honest

This.

can't argue there!

Take Icckle Jonny out of the Glasgow pack and they really are urine poor!

in no way would I advocate this now but last year Glasgow should have taken Cockers and Edinburgh should have taken Rennie. Then both coaches would be able to work on the weaker areas of either team!

I'm not sure of the legalites of it all, but could the teams do a joint training session during preseason? Cockers taking both teams forwards adn Rennie taking both teams backs?

Hard for the coffers at Murrayfield to justify such a training exercise unless it was a practice game. Why spend all that money on Humphrys when you're essentially saying he's doing a crappy job by getting Cockerill to go some way toward fixing the problems in his wake. It's frustrating to see how much he has consecutively buggered up Ospreys forwards, Scotlands set piece (now fixed thanks to McFarland), and taken Glasgow 10 steps back after the vast improvements in the forwards.

The fact Cotter brought in Richie Gray as a consultant to fix problems with the forwards says it all really. JH is like that middle manager in HR who no-one can sack.

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:34 pm

Great news - Craig Joubert has retired!

I think Glove (who is now too popular to come on here) has expressed our feelings on this the best (NSFW)

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1003659146258993152

by **NeilyBroon** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:52 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great news - Craig Joubert has retired!

I think Glove (who is now too popular to come on here) has expressed our feelings on this the best (NSFW)

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1003659146258993152

Other than THAT decision, I think there's worse.

Clancy springs to mind...

by **RDW** Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:59 pm

Wayne Barnes up to and including 2011 also springs to mind - he's not annoyed me so much since then (and having a ball kicked straight into his face was quite funny)

by tigertattie Tue 05 Jun 2018, 9:40 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great news - Craig Joubert has retired!

I think Glove (who is now too popular to come on here) has expressed our feelings on this the best (NSFW)

https://twitter.com/GLove39/status/1003659146258993152

quite tragic when fame goes to someone's head eh!

by **BigGee** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 11:36 am

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44358267

A really interesting article in the John Barclay series of BBC articles about getting through injury and rehab. Well worth a read.

by **RDW** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 1:51 pm

BigGee wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44358267

A really interesting article in the John Barclay series of BBC articles about getting through injury and rehab. Well worth a read.

Another fantastic article and interesting to hear he wants to be a defence coach. He's so well respected (now at least!) and is a great thinker so I'm sure he'll make a good coach when he retires. Hopefully he's got a few years and a World Cup left before that happens!

by **RDW** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 2:10 pm

Just to make Glasgow fans even happier we hvae announced another signing!

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/06/05/fijian-star-nayalo-signs-edinburgh

Not really got any pedigree of note so is probably a squad filler signing. He's Fijian so I'm sure he'll be a great athlete!

by tigertattie Tue 05 Jun 2018, 2:28 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just to make Glasgow fans even happier we hvae announced another signing!

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/06/05/fijian-star-nayalo-signs-edinburgh

Not really got any pedigree of note so is probably a squad filler signing. He's Fijian so I'm sure he'll be a great athlete!

I thought Glasgow had fist dibs on Fijians? Has Bill Mata broke the trend? The unwashed will not be happy!

by **BigGee** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:21 pm

Just wait until you see our signings (he says hopefully)!

by **BigGee** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:25 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just to make Glasgow fans even happier we hvae announced another signing!

http://www.edinburghrugby.org/news/18/06/05/fijian-star-nayalo-signs-edinburgh

Not really got any pedigree of note so is probably a squad filler signing. He's Fijian so I'm sure he'll be a great athlete!

Despite what John Petrie said the other day about not replacing JB, he is likely to be missing most of the season, with back for the 6N, the best case scenario. I am sure his injury has been a factor in this signing, they would not have needed it otherwise.

by **RDW** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:34 pm

Petrie said last week they had a couple of signings still to be announced, and their signing policy wasn't going to change based on Barclay's injury, so this bloke was maybe always a planned signing.

Looking at his playing history the season just passed has no information - wonder where he's been!

by **George Carlin** Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:25 pm

Has everyone seen this classy piece of merchandise?
https://shop.scottishrugby.org/gb/edinburgh/bawbags-er-logo.html

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:38 pm

Putting your Christmas list together already GC?

by SirBurger Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:51 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Petrie said last week they had a couple of signings still to be announced, and their signing policy wasn't going to change based on Barclay's injury, so this bloke was maybe always a planned signing.

Looking at his playing history the season just passed has no information - wonder where he's been!

Injured all of last season sadly. Bit of an unknown quantity - never looked more than reasonable for Irish but there is clearly some potential there.

by **RDW** Wed 06 Jun 2018, 8:20 am

Thanks Burger.

by jimbopip Thu 07 Jun 2018, 10:12 am

Morning men, and Luvvies Hug

Time for our eastern brethren to spit their Choco hoops back into the bowl: there is a rumour going around the Muppet that young Bradbury is heading to Scotstoun.

It may well be that he was the price for a 9 heading in the opposite direction. If he is the price for a Price, especially if it is an Aldi Price, you got a good price there.

by **RDW** Thu 07 Jun 2018, 10:21 am

As much as we need a decent 9 I don't want to lose Bradbury. After a difficult start to the season (to say the least) he has come into great form and at 22 has plenty development left.

It would also leave Mata as our only real big bruiser left - no point just shifting the problem from Glasgow to Edinburgh!

by tigertattie Thu 07 Jun 2018, 10:51 am

concerning.

I wonder if this is a ploy to have a Glasgow backrow of

6. Bradbury
7. MulletMan
8. Wilson

with an Edinburgh backrow of

6. Ritchie
7. Mish
8. Mata

I no likely!

by **BigGee** Thu 07 Jun 2018, 11:20 am

That would certainly even up the score and stop all the winging about Edinburgh getting a free run on all of Glasgows players. It might also explain the signing of the new Fijian backrow by Edinburgh.

Would have thought that would have been a more likely and plausible scenario had JB not got injured and likely to miss the great bulk of the season.

Edinburgh are back in pre season next week and Glasgow the week after, maybe we will hear a bit more then.

by **BigGee** Thu 07 Jun 2018, 11:29 am

and on the subject of Glasgow signings, they have just announced that Robbie Nairn and Bruce Flockhart get one year deals with the club.

Nairn is a big, fast winger, who probably still needs to develop his ball skills a bit but has lots of promise. Might have got a chance last year but for injury.

Flockhart was sent off to France to play for Nice last season to develop him a bit more physically. He has come back at 109 kg so sounds like he is ready for pro rugby from that point of view.

Not the big signing we were hoping for, but you have always got to be happy for some Scottish lads to get their chance to show that they can mix it at the top level. They have got a year to show us their wares.

by Hazel Sapling Thu 07 Jun 2018, 11:40 am

Where does Flockhart play in the backrow?

Nairn is the 8th wing in the Glasgow squad at the moment though. Is he a guy who will largely play 7s or are we going to see Masaga and/or Tagive leave?

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