Group D Discussion

Argentina
Iceland
Nigeria
Croatia

This is a great group for me.
Hoping the super eagles can get out of the group.
Would also like to see Iceland go through. Like watching them play, and also cos they have BB.

Then Argentina with Messi.

Croatia not fussed about really

Iceland should lead, Argentina all over the place

*makes a mental note to watch all of Argentina's games*

Might have to score 4 to win games

Stunning finish from Aguero

Iceland level, Argentina again all over the place

Messi pen saved

wake up var, that should be a 2nd pen

Argentina 1-1 Iceland FT

Argentina dissapointing...based on that performance the whole Messi/Ronaldo argument may well be put to bed this summer!

Argentinas coach doing nothing tactically to influence the game. Not only was the starting XI baffling...but his subs were uninspiring at best. Icardi must have a wry smile watching somewhere.

Credir to Iceland who are surely making a case for possibly the best underdogs in Major competition history!

Great world cup so far. Iceland do it again. Argentina look way too fragile to be a contender in this world cup, might be a potential group stage casualty.

Can't wait for the latest round of Messi vs Ronaldo hot takes.

Agree. Nobody really stating that Argentina are going to be genuine contenders, they barely made it to Russia through the qualifying campaign. Average side, bailed out by Messi.

Ronaldo was anonymous in the CL final. Messi was poor today. It happens.

Victor Moses has spent more time on the floor than on his feet.
Jesus

Poor from the super eagles

Impressive from Croatia. Nigeria have work to do to avoid finishing bottom you'd suspect.

African sides looking weak. Croatia v Argentina should be mouthwatering. Winner of this group, most likely to face Denmark in the last 16.

owen10ozzy wrote:Argentina dissapointing...based on that performance the whole Messi/Ronaldo argument may well be put to bed this summer!

Argentinas coach doing nothing tactically to influence the game. Not only was the starting XI baffling...but his subs were uninspiring at best. Icardi must have a wry smile watching somewhere.

Credir to Iceland who are surely making a case for possibly the best underdogs in Major competition history!

Really? I don't like to get into the best player arguments (it's a team game) but surely it's reductionist to compare players based on one tournament when there's a consistent and comparable body of work from both players over a number of years.

If we're rating players based purely on this World Cup, then of the games I've seen, Iniesta is head and shoulders the best individual player.

*One game of one tournament.

Both teams trading big chances and shoddy passing at the back

Rebic with a studs up kick on Slavio should’ve been a straight red. It was a potential leg breaker

Willy you’ve had a mare

Excellent finish even if its a complete clanger

Not entirely sure what Argentinas plan is beyond give to Messi and hope he does something special. And Croatia are duly using multiple players to crowd him out of the game.

Also am completely not on board with all the grumpy co comms in this tournament, even if Lawro is the master of it. Been an excellent tournament and half of them sound barely bothered.

GSC wrote:Also am completely not on board with all the grumpy co comms in this tournament, even if Lawro is the master of it. Been an excellent tournament and half of them sound barely bothered.

Ally McCoist has been the best imo. He actually sounds like he's happy to be there. He spouts some pish sometimes but atleast he's trying. Lawrenson is insufferable.

I love Lawro, one of a kind and natural. Bit different, and I like bad jokes.

Argentina are a mess, which is no surprise

I liked Lawro but hes really stopped trying a few years ago.

Mandzukic does a great impression of a really good striker

Danny Murphy and Keown bring down the average massively though.

Modric

Goodnight

ball game.

Argentina not taking their dignity home

Not the end of the road for Argentina. Need a draw between Iceland v Nigeria, or a Nigeria win. Then if the Argies beat Nigeria, and hope Croatia beat Iceland

A bit embarrassing seeing the greatest player of all time surrounded by a bunch of clowns. What would make it worst is if that Portuguese ladyboy where to somehow fluke a World Cup

Not surprised to see Argentina struggling in their group. They struggled through the South American qualifiers so what made everyone think that as soon as they got to Russia, everything would turn out right for them? Still, they're not out of it yet.

They should be better than Nigeria, who I think are pretty shambolic.

It’s all a bit over the top before tomorrow

It would be comical to see Argentina go out. Hope Iceland make it through.

If Iceland beat Nigeria, it’s pretty much game over for messi and co.

Atila wrote:Hope Iceland make it through.

I don’t. It would be France v Iceland, a repeat of the Euro 2016 QF hammering.

Just John wrote:

Atila wrote:Hope Iceland make it through.

I don’t. It would be France v Iceland, a repeat of the Euro 2016 QF hammering.

If Argentina make it through it might be worse the way they are playing.

I keep hearing about an on-going debate - who is the best of all time Lionel Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo.  It seems to me that Messi is a great player - but he has only been a great player for one team Barcelona.  In his national team he is not so great.  With Argentina he has played in three finals - 2xCopa America and 1xWorld Cup.  He had his opportunity to "do something" but failed and they lost all three finals.  This suggests to me that Messi is not the "all time great".  He is Barcelona's greatest player but he is not "footballs" greatest player.  He needs certain things around him, he gets that with Barcelona - but he hasn't shown he is able to do that elsewhere.  I think Maradona was better than him - someone who was a similar type player.  He was someone who was able to shine in many different teams - and transformed a side Napoli when he moved to them.

I think Ronaldo is a different type of player to Messi - so can't really be compared.  But Ronaldo has shown he is equally as special in any side - Man Utd, Real Madrid,  Portugal - which shows he has something about him to influence and shine in whatever team he plays for.  This is exactly what Alex Ferguson said a few years ago - he said Ronaldo would shine in any team - a Watford, a Burnley, a Millwall.  Ronaldo is more adaptable to pitches, weather conditions, playing styles, teams.  Messi less so.

The Argentine Manager Jorge Sampaoli claimed he was building a team around Messi.   Not sure how well that worked or even whether Messi was informed about that.  It could be said Sampaoli has performed poorly at Argentina - but he had a great managerial cv coming into the Argentina job.

As for the tournament, looks pretty much a Spain v Croatia QF.

Maradona was better than Messi. Doesn’t have the club trophies but as far as national team is concerned there is no contest. His teammates in the 1990 WC were way worst than what Messi has around him (except the GK who was excellent ) but they made it to the final thanks to grit and some Maradona magic against Brazil .

whocares wrote:Maradona was better than Messi. Doesn’t have the club trophies but as far as national team is concerned there is no contest. His teammates in the 1990 WC were way worst than what Messi has around him (except the GK who was excellent ) but they made it to the final thanks to grit and some Maradona magic against Brazil .

The 1990 team had a much better keeper and defenders (and the fact that keepers could pick up pass-backs aided their defensive and cynical approach) and I'd argue that man for man, other than Messi and Aguero, the 1990 side were individually and collectively better that the team that started last night and were set up well by an intelligent manager.  They have a much better squad now, but it's not being used in the right way.  

It might have been better for Argentina and Messi if Messi had stayed retired.  His team mates are paralysed by his presence and are just hoping that Messi can turn it on like a tap and produce some magic to win the game.  That's not realistic and no other player in history has had that relentless exposure and expectation to always be brilliant.  It's his remarkable consistency over the years which has made the magical seem mundane and now we always expect him to pick up the ball on the halfway line, beat 6 players and curl it into the far corner.  Those types of goal used to be considered once in a career moments, we expect it of Messi in every match.  C Ronaldo is being judged on numbers, Messi is being judged on aesthetics and numbers.    

How many full 90 minutes did any one us see Maradona play?  Certainly very few at club level and World Cups only come around every four years.  I think I've seen about 10-12 of his games and in some of those games he was great and in others he did nothing.  

Messi has done nothing in the two games so far, but I think he has considerable credit in the bank when looking back at his career.

It's recency bias. Messi won player of the tournament in 2014 while Portugal went out in the group stages. Teams win tournaments, not players.

Agreed. Individual players can make a difference in certain matches, but generally the team that wins the World Cup is well balanced and set up to make the most of its best players.

I also think there is a certain bias towards Maradona amongst English football fans because of what happened in '86. They want to believe that they lost out to a never bettered moment of genius by the greatest player who ever lived. As a result, the goal is overrated and the rest of the Argentinian team is underestimated.

Eusebio was immense in 66. Didn’t win it though. Does it mean e played worse?

GSC wrote:It's recency bias. Messi won player of the tournament in 2014 while Portugal went out in the group stages. Teams win tournaments, not players.

How on earth Messi won POTT in 2014 I have no idea. Robben and Rodriguez were far better.

Argentina’s issue is the loss of key players prior to the World Cup. Sergio Romero was a huge loss, Romero doesn’t get much credit in European circles but he’s been outstanding for Argentina. The three keepers at the World Cup are terrible. Secondly their experience players are coming back from injury such as Rojo, also Mascherano was finished when he left Barcelona and therefore he’s not really worthy of a place in the side.

The decision to omit Mauro Icardi, as he’s not pals with Messi is beyond idiotic. Higuaín is a proven flop at international level.

They need to revert to a 4/3/3 or 4/4/2. This 5/3/1/1 is clearly not working with this squad. They need to get Dybala, Di María, Messi and Agüero into the side

Hero wrote:

GSC wrote:It's recency bias. Messi won player of the tournament in 2014 while Portugal went out in the group stages. Teams win tournaments, not players.

How on earth Messi won POTT in 2014 I have no idea. Robben and Rodriguez were far better.

Don't disagree but even then he was in the running

Nigeria 1-0 Iceland - Musa (good result for the argies)