Scotland end of season summary and awards

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:09 am

Scotland season 2017-2018

Summer tour

Argentina 15 - 44 Scotland
USA 30 - 29 Scotland
Canada 10 - 48 Scotland

6 Nations

Italy 27 - 29 Scotland
Ireland 28 - 8 Scotland
Scotland 25 - 13 England
Scotland 32 - 26 France
Wales 34 - 7 Scotland

AIs

Scotland 53 - 24 Australia
Scotland 17 - 22 New Zealand
Scotland 44 - 38 Samoa

Points for - 336

Points against - 262

Summary

Well it is probably fair to say this has been one of the most memorable seasons in recent times! Some stand out wins (England, France, Australia), some incredible performances (those three plus NZ), combined with a harrowing defeat (Wales) and an embarrassing lesson that you can’t put a bunch of kids out in international rugby and expect to win (USA).

All in all we have seen a lot of attacking rugby, some great tries, although some dodgy defence at times. Scotland have a reputation for bad defence, which has been true at times, but this season we scored 74 points more than we conceded – as long we keep that up we should be OK….

Townsend will have learnt a hell of a lot from his first season in charge. Personally I would like to see us tighten up our defence, even if that means limiting our attacking ambitions slightly (but only slightly). There’s lots fo look forward to next season with a world cup carrot at the end of the stick.

End of season awards

Player of the season
Forward of the season
Back of the season
Young player of the season
Debut of the season
‘Must do better’ award

by **BigGee** Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:40 am

Player of the season: Going to go for Stuart McInally, made the hooker shirt his own now and may end up being Scotland captain for a long time.

Forward of the season: A few contenders for this one, but I am going to plump for Simon Berghan, a bit of an unsung hero, who has slowly built himself into an international TH. Again, I think he currently owns the shirt and others are going to have to take it off him.

Back of the season: Got to be Huw Jones for the unforgettable tries he has scored in the centre, ran out of steam a bit towards the end of the season, but had plenty in the bank to win this one.

Young Player of the season: Got to be King Blairhorne, always predicted to be a star and now delivering

Debut of the season: George Horne, took to international rugby as if he had been born to it.

'Must do better' award: going to go for Finn Russell, who by his own standards had a pretty lean season, despite a few moments of brilliance. There may have been some mitigating circumstances distracting him a bit and hopefully the move to France will rejuvenate him. He also may start at long last to have a bit of competition for the shirt as well.

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:45 am

Thinking about the awards, it is difficult to view things over an entire season, mainly due to so many players being rested over the summer tour and an inexperienced squad being put out. With that in mind mine are going to be based on the games that really counted – the AIs and 6N.

Player of the season – Stuart McINally. He was outstanding in the AIs then took things to another level in the 6N, with his performance against England being one of the best in the tournament IMO. It probably isn’t hyperbole to put him in the world class bracket now, although he could do with increasing his throwing % a little bit.

Forward of the season – Grant Gilchrist. He has had a fantastic season and has established himself as a top player for Scotland. His lineout organisation is very good and his carrying has come on significantly this season. He also has a huge workrate which every modern lock needs. Ritchie Gray has got his work cut out.

Back of the season – a feature this season has been a real lack of consistency in the backs, which makes this award a difficult one. I will go for Huw Jones given his tries and standout performances, but he needs to be more consistent – as good as his tries are he often goes missing for large parts of a game.

Young player of the season – Blair Kinghorn. He’s taken to international rugby with ease and has never looked phased. He should be a regular starter leading up to the world cup if he keeps up his form.

Debut of the season – George Horne. We only saw what he could do this summer tour but he has been electric.

‘Must do better’ award – Chris Harris. It has been a debut season to forget for Harris. He was awful against Wales (although he really wasn’t helped by the rest of the team) and struggled in the other games he played. He has had a solid summer tour but hasn’t done anything to show he is up to test quality. Given our depth at centre he may find his future opportunities limited, although his versatility and defensives solidity may make him a good bench option.

by EWT Spoons Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:09 am

Player of the season
Like RDW & BigGee I’m going with McInally as well. He’s been superb this year and I think he’s got to be looking at holding on to the captaincy going forward. Some of his performances in a Scotland shirt (and Edinburgh) have been outstanding, and he played nearly every minute of the 6 nations.

Forward of the season
I mean the obvious one here is McInally, but on the basis that it can’t go with the same player, I would happily take Berghan or Gilco, as forward of the season, for the reasons posted by others. However, if I had to pick one, it would be Berghan. I’ve long been a promoter of him, when others have knocked him, so selfishly, I’m glad he’s now proving me right.

Back of the season
Huw Jones is a decent shout, but I’m going with Laidlaw, purely for coming in during the 6 nations and offered the calming head we needed and showed that the rumours of his demise were greatly exaggerated.

Young player of the season
Blair, there haven’t been many others who got a chance in games like the 6 nations. If we’re looking at the wider tours then Bradbury has come in and shown that he is a real contented for a backrow position. Turner’s loose work has been great, Horne & Hastings had really good games against Pumas (not so much USA). But in competitive rugby, Blair Kinghorn is the front runner.

Debut of the season
George Horne. Agreed, can’t add any more than what’s already been said. He’s stepped up like he was made for that level. Granted it was against weaker opposition than we will face in the 6 nations etc, but he’s done what’s been asked of him. If he continues like that, and nails down the Glasgow shirt next season then he has to be amongst the conversation for starting 9 in the 6 nations & WC.

‘Must do better’ award
Ali Price. As I have alluded to throughout these awards, Price struggled in this years 6 nations, and he is now under increasing pressure from Laidlaw and young Horne (both for club & country). On that basis I think he should be looking seriously at a move to Edinburgh, he’s got a lot of competition for the position at Glasgow whereas he would be first choice at Edin, he would also be playing behind a strong pack who can give him the time and support he needs to get his confidence back. But that’s for another thread.

by tigertattie Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:45 am

Player of the season - McInally (same reasons as mentioned)

Forward of the season - As it can't be McInally again I'll go with Berghan. If club performances were also considered I'd have gone with Toolis as he's been great for Edinburgh also. The only reason he isn't forward of the year for Scotland is purely due to him getting limited chances as Toonie seems to think Swinson is a better second rower than Ben (figure that one out)

Back of the season - Shuggie (as mentioned)

Young player of the season - There can be only one - Kinghorn

Debut of the season - Wee Horney hands down

‘Must do better’ award - Could go to just about about any of the Glasgow players recently such as Seymour, Price, Russell, Grigg but I'll plump with Harris as he's not exactly set the heather alight!

by **BigGee** Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:23 am

This thread is not really turning into anything controversial!

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:25 am

I was expecting some backlash for picking Gilchrist - might have to wait until Jimbo arrives!

by tigertattie Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:52 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:I was expecting some backlash for picking Gilchrist - might have to wait until Jimbo arrives!

Alas my good effeminate supporting luvvie you've selected a player who frankly is as useful as a unic choirboy at propagating the baron lands of the frozen north.

This reminds me of a whimsical story when I were a lad back when school masters were allowed to birch offenders for no rhyme or reason. Back then, we had to read 4 score pages of literature to enhance our vocabulary to allow us in later life to regale tales and yarns with majestic splendor.

You may think this tale has nothing to do with the point in which I am debating but then again when ale is quaffed in copious quantities sometimes sparrows think they are blackbirds.

#AlwaysLuvvies #TheBookWasBetterThanTheMovie

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:06 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I was expecting some backlash for picking Gilchrist - might have to wait until Jimbo arrives!

Alas my good effeminate supporting luvvie you've selected a player who frankly is as useful as a unic choirboy at propagating the baron lands of the frozen north.

This reminds me of a whimsical story when I were a lad back when school masters were allowed to birch offenders for no rhyme or reason. Back then, we had to read 4 score pages of literature to enhance our vocabulary to allow us in later life to regale tales and yarns with majestic splendor.

You may think this tale has nothing to do with the point in which I am debating but then again when ale is quaffed in copious quantities sometimes sparrows think they are blackbirds.

#AlwaysLuvvies #TheBookWasBetterThanTheMovie

That's a sport on Jimbo impression! clap

by **BigGee** Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:20 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I was expecting some backlash for picking Gilchrist - might have to wait until Jimbo arrives!

Alas my good effeminate supporting luvvie you've selected a player who frankly is as useful as a unic choirboy at propagating the baron lands of the frozen north.

This reminds me of a whimsical story when I were a lad back when school masters were allowed to birch offenders for no rhyme or reason. Back then, we had to read 4 score pages of literature to enhance our vocabulary to allow us in later life to regale tales and yarns with majestic splendor.

You may think this tale has nothing to do with the point in which I am debating but then again when ale is quaffed in copious quantities sometimes sparrows think they are blackbirds.

#AlwaysLuvvies #TheBookWasBetterThanTheMovie

That's a sport on Jimbo impression!

He would no doubt pull you up on your spelling as well!

by Eejit Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:30 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I was expecting some backlash for picking Gilchrist - might have to wait until Jimbo arrives!

Alas my good effeminate supporting luvvie you've selected a player who frankly is as useful as a unic choirboy at propagating the baron lands of the frozen north.

This reminds me of a whimsical story when I were a lad back when school masters were allowed to birch offenders for no rhyme or reason. Back then, we had to read 4 score pages of literature to enhance our vocabulary to allow us in later life to regale tales and yarns with majestic splendor.

You may think this tale has nothing to do with the point in which I am debating but then again when ale is quaffed in copious quantities sometimes sparrows think they are blackbirds.

#AlwaysLuvvies #TheBookWasBetterThanTheMovie

That is first class.

by jimbopip Mon Jun 25, 2018 1:29 pm

See! I don't even need to be here to be here.

I'm Schroedinger's Poster.

by tigertattie Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:18 pm

jimbopip wrote:See! I don't even need to be here to be here.

I'm Schroedinger's Poster.

see, too high brow for the rest of us!

I googled Schroedinger and he was a pal of Einstein!

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:21 pm

You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

by jimbopip Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:49 pm

jimbopip wrote:See! I don't even need to be here to be here.

I'm Schroedinger's Poster.

So even when I'm not here that is me actually posting I'm actually here in the sense that you ne'erdowells miss me so much you actually try to create the comforting sense of my actuality by parodying me I think that rivals the cat in the box. But not The Cat In The Hat obviously.

Also; I'm sure we all know what Oscar Wilde said about imitation. kiss

by **RDW** Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:56 pm

Just realised it wasn't a completely accurate impression as tattie got the quote function right! (as demonstrated by jimbo quoting his own post)

by tigertattie Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:27 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Just realised it wasn't a completely accurate impression as tattie got the quote function right! (as demonstrated by jimbo quoting his own post)

Was wondering if someone would pick up on that. I did think about feccing it up but worried people wouldn't grasp the subtlety of it.

Or as jimbo would say "I mused the thought of bewildering my comrades but as Dame Barbera Cartland used to say, fuscia isn't the only shade of pink"

by Tramptastic Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:29 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

ze possibilities both exist at ze same time until one clicks "send" on a post and collapses ze wave function

Jimbo is always posting and not posting until he posts

by jimbopip Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:47 am

tigertattie wrote:Player of the season - McInally (same reasons as mentioned) Agreed

Forward of the season - As it can't be McInally again I'll go with Berghan. If club performances were also considered I'd have gone with Toolis as he's been great for Edinburgh also. The only reason he isn't forward of the year for Scotland is purely due to him getting limited chances as Toonie seems to think Swinson is a better second rower than Ben (figure that one out) As I said after the AI match against The Criminal Element, I was chatting to a couple of Aussies at the airport, the one talking most looked awfully like Bob Dwyer and he said (a) Toolis had been staying with him during the previous tour by Scotland broken hearted that he wasn't in the squad and sick to the back teeth with the fact that Big Vern wouldn't give him explicit targets to improve on or concrete reasons as to why he wasn't in the squad, (b) Toonie had been phoning Toolis regularly and telling him not to lose heart because things would change. Gray, Gray, Gilchrist, Toolis, Swinson, Cummings, Carmichael should be the long list for the World Cup second rows. The short list is anyone's guess.

Back of the season - Shuggie (as mentioned) Agreed

Young player of the season - There can be only one - Kinghorn Agreed, made almost as stunning an impact as Shuggie did when he exploded onto the scene.

Debut of the season - Wee Horney hands down One day we'll be saying, "I know because I was there." Kind of.

‘Must do better’ award - Could go to just about about any of the Glasgow players recently such as Seymour, Price, Russell, Grigg but I'll plump with Harris as he's not exactly set the heather alight! Certainly the loss of form at the business end of the season is very concerning: unless you live in Morningside and use £50 notes as firelighters.

by jimbopip Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:52 am

Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

ze possibilities both exist at ze same time until one clicks "send" on a post and collapses ze wave function

Jimbo is always posting and not posting until he posts

Tramptastic, you have touched on one of the quandaries of the Digital Age: people only feel an experience is validated once it has been selfied and posted on the twittesphere. I post therefore I am. My own personal opinion is that such people are nothing more than egocentric, onanistic, self-abusers.

Your genius lies in spotting the Hamlet moment, "To post or not to post that is the question...Aye there's the rub."

by Tramptastic Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:32 am

jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

ze possibilities both exist at ze same time until one clicks "send" on a post and collapses ze wave function

Jimbo is always posting and not posting until he posts

Tramptastic, you have touched on one of the quandaries of the Digital Age: people only feel an experience is validated once it has been selfied and posted on the twittesphere. I post therefore I am. My own personal opinion is that such people are nothing more than egocentric, onanistic, self-abusers.

Your genius lies in spotting the Hamlet moment, "To post or not to post...Aye there's the rub."

Right I'm only 27 but I detest parts of this social media age, for example "Your friend, person A, has been tagged at Edinburgh Festival Fireworks", what follows is a video of said fireworks which nobody will ever watch again. The person I feel sorry for the most is the the poster because they've just watched the entire fireworks show through a lense - the most pointless waste of time ever because several thousands others will have done the same.

That and videoing a music gig - just enjoy it you idiots! You don't need video evidence that you were there!!!

Did a gig even happen if no-one was there to take a shoddy video with the worst sound quality?

Yes. Yes it did.

by jimbopip Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:38 am

by tigertattie Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:54 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

ze possibilities both exist at ze same time until one clicks "send" on a post and collapses ze wave function

Jimbo is always posting and not posting until he posts

Tramptastic, you have touched on one of the quandaries of the Digital Age: people only feel an experience is validated once it has been selfied and posted on the twittesphere. I post therefore I am. My own personal opinion is that such people are nothing more than egocentric, onanistic, self-abusers.

Your genius lies in spotting the Hamlet moment, "To post or not to post...Aye there's the rub."

Right I'm only 27 but I detest parts of this social media age, for example "Your friend, person A, has been tagged at Edinburgh Festival Fireworks", what follows is a video of said fireworks which nobody will ever watch again. The person I feel sorry for the most is the the poster because they've just watched the entire fireworks show through a lense - the most pointless waste of time ever because several thousands others will have done the same.

That and videoing a music gig - just enjoy it you idiots! You don't need video evidence that you were there!!!

Did a gig even happen if no-one was there to take a shoddy video with the worst sound quality?

Yes. Yes it did.

Old before your time.

But I fully agree with the bamboozlement of folk filming gigs. Either watch the gig or go on youtube to watch an old one!

It's a bit ironic lamenting how sad social media can be on a forum but hey ho, we're nothing if not ironic us lot eh! Happily I'm on Facebook but I only really use it to take the urine out of people. I don;t have twitter or that as I'd rather have 2 good real life friends than have 100,000 followers on twitter or whatever. (I'm not like that sad ginger boy who doesn't come on here anymore)

by **RDW** Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:56 pm

Totally agree on the gig thing. I'll take a few photos at the beginning and the odd one throughout but definitely watch the gig instead of watch it on my phone! You see people recording the whole damn thing and not actually watching the gig.

by Tramptastic Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:13 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Totally agree on the gig thing. I'll take a few photos at the beginning and the odd one throughout but definitely watch the gig instead of watch it on my phone! You see people recording the whole damn thing and not actually watching the gig.

I can understand the occasional snippet of a gig - would prefer to just buy the dvd of the tour as that will have infinitely better video and sound quality!

Its videos of fireworks that drive me bonkers - It's a fekin explosion!! why aren't you watching it live??? Who watches these videos again?! Madness. Absolute Madness.

by tigertattie Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:23 pm

You know what really gets on my goat? Russell Brand!

just saying

Regards
Victor Meldrew

by jimbopip Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:38 pm

tigertattie wrote:You know what really gets on my goat? Russell Brand!

just saying

Regards
Victor Meldrew

He gets on your goat? call the RSPCA.

by tigertattie Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:59 pm

jimbopip wrote:
tigertattie wrote:You know what really gets on my goat? Russell Brand!

just saying

Regards
Victor Meldrew

He gets on your goat? call the RSPCA.

I'd not put it passed that fella to mount my goat! He's just the kind of unpredictable weirdo

remember, this is the man who tells people not to vote as not voting for politicians will change politics quicker than anything else. then he went and stood to be a politician!

by yappysnap Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:57 am

Congrats on the good season gents!

How have James Lang and and Daryl Marfo gone for you guys? As a Quin and ex Quin always nice to see them doing well.

by yappysnap Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:58 am

And prepare for the misery to restart when you come to Twickers next year!

by **RDW** Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:33 am

yappysnap wrote:And prepare for the misery to restart when you come to Twickers next year!

Aye I can see how this is going to pan out - England continue to stutter through the AIs and Scotland put in some good performances, leading to Scotland being talked up as dark horses more so than ever. The championship will be wide open going into the last weekend with Scotland mathematically in with a chance of winning, if only we can beat England at Twickenham in the first time in donkeys years....

....but we once again get pumped and the long wait continues! Sad

by TJ Mon Jul 02, 2018 9:34 am

Having watched the Argentina game now I feel Scots rugby is in a decent place

Front row loads of options now none who will let us down and a couple who look very good.

Second row - again some choice if everyone is fit. Still don't rate Gilcrest tho

Back row - difficult to find the balance we need especially with Barclay broken but nice to see Denton back in some form which helps

SH - Horne jr looks the real deal - plenty of choice for us at 9

10 - still an issue but Hastings looked the part and IMO Peter Horne can still do a job at 10

Centres - we need some folk back from injury / back to form but hopefully we should have them back

Back 3 - talent to spare.

Overall a good season with decent results bar the odd blip, more talent blooded on the tour and discovering depth in most positions.

Next year we beat the world!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:07 am

I share your optimism, though winning the world cup would be slightly beyond where we are at the moment! Minimum quarter final, if we were to make the semis I'd be delighted, final I probably would have won the Euromillions and been struck by lightning in the same week.

Improvement in away record is a must next season, though I am hopeful with the new coaches coming in that we will improve and get back some of the gnarly edge that was showing under Cotter but seems to be less prevalent this season.

Summer tour was okay. I don't think I'd give it much more than that as two of the teams we played were and are currently atrocious. I'd argue we actually learnt the most from the USA game and it wasn't just a blip.

Bad as it sounds I'm glad other players will now get a chance over Swinson, as I said before, Carmichael does all that he does but better and he's about 8/9 years younger.

Our backrow situation is okay but we're still lacking go forward and are a couple of injuries away from trouble. I think we'll see Blade Thomson get a run out at 8 sooner rather than later, he must be on the radar by now. If Hardie can get a club/run of games under his belt he'd be a handy option. I wasn't overly convinced on Fagerson Jr but he is so young that it's hardly surprising he struggled a little to make an impact, especially against the older forwards. Unlike the backs I think age matters, with a couple of rare exceptions.

Horne Jr has surely usurped Price now. Price needs to take the summer to rediscover why he enjoys the game. Laidlaw will probably remain first choice, though Sam H-C hasn't harmed his prospects. Pyrgos will remain back-up back-up.

Hastings is a funny one. I don't feel like he did that much to say that he's a back-up to Finn but he's not a very flash style player. I'll wait and see how he gets on at Glasgow next season but I think a lot of us are trying to make out he was better than he actually was because we're that desperate for him to do well. We know Horne and Jacko can still do a job at 10 so that's at least some comfort. I hope Lang gets a run-out at 10 for Quins as I think he could potentially do well in that position. I'll also be watching Jason Bagott at Edinburgh with interest to see if he lives up to his hype, hopefully he'll get a run out.

Centres, I think we've got used to having great centres but like a lot of great players they get injured. A lot. Mark Bennett seems to be getting there, which is nice to see, especially as he's still young. Dunbar I think is finished and I don't know why people on this forum still say he'd be first choice if he wasn't injured. To me when he's played he's shown no recent form and not been able to string any games together. Sadly it's one of those things. I'm worried the same fate awaits SuperDunc, which would be a crying shame but I'd rather that than him get brain damage for the sake of a sport.

So looks like Lang may have to step up at inside centre which would be no bad thing as I think he has a good skillset on him, but needs gametime. Horne can do a job at inside centre but like others I think he's more of a back-up option than first choice, though going forward for lack of other options he may have to be for a while. I like Grigg but he didn't exactly set the heather alight this summer. Interestingly as Scott is now back at Edinburgh we could be looking at the pairing we had a few years back, with Scott at 12 and Bennett at 13, a combination I like the sound of if both can find a run of form. Scott always looked good when he played for Gloucester and was unlucky to stay on the fringes in my opinion, which from what I understand is why he's moved back to Edinburgh to make himself more visible. This is all before we add Huw Jones into the mix of course but good to know what our options are.

Harris, no, not unless everyone is injured. I just don't think he can cut it at the moment. Maybe he'll hit a purple patch next season but we have better options at the moment.

Back three kind of select themselves. Hopefully now Tommy Seymour will have some competition in Blair, and I think Fife didn't do his chances any harm, I think he's needed that this season but I really want the Seymour of old to come back. I'm hoping it was just a blip and he has a strong start to the 2018/19 season. Hogg selects himself, but again, healthy competition from Kinghorn and we know Maitland can do a job there. We look like we're in a better place than before but are one or two injuries away from a crisis. D'Arcy Graham has an opportunity to kick on, Cockers clearly rates him, he just needs to force himself into selection and get a few games off the bench. VdM is a sure starter but other wing is up for grabs.

2018/19 looks like it'll be interesting, for me it has to be the breakthrough season for: Hastings, D'Arcy Graham, Bagott, Crosbie, A N Other (centre) - Paddy Kelly?

by tigertattie Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:08 am

Don't want to burst your bubble TJ but take the Argentina game with a pinch of salt. That was the worse performance I've seen from the Pumas ever.

by Hazel Sapling Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:07 pm

yappysnap wrote:Congrats on the good season gents!

How have James Lang and and Daryl Marfo gone for you guys? As a Quin and ex Quin always nice to see them doing well.

Lang started against Canada (came off on 44 minutes) and came on against Argentina with 10 minutes to go (garbage time). Did not look out of place though neither game says anything. Less than an hour of international rugby against a team that would struggle to win in the Pro 14 and a team that had given up on it's coach (Jaguares won this past weekend under Ledesma) was not informative. If he can be P Horne, that has use but, barring a Toonie surprise, he will need to really impress at Quins to be playing against South Africa or in the 6 nations.

Marfo has been coming back from being long term injured (back if memory serves). His main competition all play at the same club (Dell, Dickinson and Sutherland). Hopefully he can get and keep himself fit to stay in with a shout of Scotland.

by TJ Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:16 pm

tigertattie wrote:Don't want to burst your bubble TJ but take the Argentina game with a pinch of salt. That was the worse performance I've seen from the Pumas ever.

Not sure it was. they were pretty poor all summer and you can only play whats in front of you and Scotland blew them away in 25 mins

by **RDW** Mon Jul 02, 2018 1:51 pm

Good summary Nelly. On the backrow I think Bradbury showed he can mix it at international level as a big lump that gives go forward. If he carries that on he should start in place of Barclay in the AIs and use it has a chance to cement his place in the team.

It is a good point on the centres - Dunbar in particular cannot be relied upon these days, and Taylor is a big unknown. One of the biggest disappointments for me from this tour is that we didn't really come close to answering the question about centre, as none of them really stood out as anything special. Grigg just looks like a good club player at best and was shown up defensively a few times. As you say hopefully the Scott-Bennett combo gets a run at Edinburgh and stranger things have happened with player's injuries - we may see Dunbar back to his best yet!

by **NeilyBroon** Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:50 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good summary Nelly. On the backrow I think Bradbury showed he can mix it at international level as a big lump that gives go forward. If he carries that on he should start in place of Barclay in the AIs and use it has a chance to cement his place in the team.

It is a good point on the centres - Dunbar in particular cannot be relied upon these days, and Taylor is a big unknown. One of the biggest disappointments for me from this tour is that we didn't really come close to answering the question about centre, as none of them really stood out as anything special. Grigg just looks like a good club player at best and was shown up defensively a few times. As you say hopefully the Scott-Bennett combo gets a run at Edinburgh and stranger things have happened with player's injuries - we may see Dunbar back to his best yet!

Something I didn't mention which I just remembered is that Johnson becomes SQ soon of course. I'm not sure if he could make the step up to international as first choice but a good back up for sure. Dean has acquitted himself well recently too and is probably in the same box. We just seem to be lacking in a great, balanced, inside centre. I think the closest we had was Matt Scott on peak form, if he's addressed his defensive frailties he could be a really good option as he's not a small lad and has good distribution skills.

Don't get me wrong, we're not in the doldrums of Graeme Morrison or having to play Sean Lamont at 12 but we've not really had anything special there for a couple of seasons now due to injuries and dips in form and no-one new really coming through.

by Hazel Sapling Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:07 pm

NeilyBroon wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Good summary Nelly. On the backrow I think Bradbury showed he can mix it at international level as a big lump that gives go forward. If he carries that on he should start in place of Barclay in the AIs and use it has a chance to cement his place in the team.

It is a good point on the centres - Dunbar in particular cannot be relied upon these days, and Taylor is a big unknown. One of the biggest disappointments for me from this tour is that we didn't really come close to answering the question about centre, as none of them really stood out as anything special. Grigg just looks like a good club player at best and was shown up defensively a few times. As you say hopefully the Scott-Bennett combo gets a run at Edinburgh and stranger things have happened with player's injuries - we may see Dunbar back to his best yet!

Something I didn't mention which I just remembered is that Johnson becomes SQ soon of course. I'm not sure if he could make the step up to international as first choice but a good back up for sure. Dean has acquitted himself well recently too and is probably in the same box. We just seem to be lacking in a great, balanced, inside centre. I think the closest we had was Matt Scott on peak form, if he's addressed his defensive frailties he could be a really good option as he's not a small lad and has good distribution skills.

Don't get me wrong, we're not in the doldrums of Graeme Morrison or having to play Sean Lamont at 12 but we've not really had anything special there for a couple of seasons now due to injuries and dips in form and no-one new really coming through.

S Johnson was pushing an in-form Dunbar into 13 and Bennett onto the bench for European games as a 23 year old for Toonie. As a just turned 25 year old, he is certainly worth a shout as a potential starter. Toonie is a big fan and that is what matters.

Dean, I tend to agree is unlikely to be more than a good back-up. He is still only 24 though and is finally putting together his early promise. Moving from 13 where he was overmatched to 12 has invigorated his career. He will have Scott and Bennett around him/to compete with. Cockerill will not play someone he does not rate so if he can play himself into the conversation of being the starter in big matches, who knows.

Dunbar is ahead of Taylor on the injury front. Taylor needs to start the season and get to the new year without injury before considering him. He could have become world class considering how good he is without even playing. Reminds me of Ledley King from football (Wendyball in Jimboan) fame.

H Jones is the new name in the last couple of seasons. His defensive frailties have been found out and hopefully they get properly worked on this off-season.

by **RDW** Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:11 pm

Johnson would have been the form pick this season but he's got very little time to force himself into the WC squad. If Dunbar, Scott, Taylor etc are fit for the AIs I can see Toonie sticking with them given their extra international experience.

Again though if he's got good form next season he could force himself into contention.

by Hazel Sapling Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:30 pm

Don't know how Toonie will approach the AI's.

Wales are playing Scotland A according to wiki. Guess it is due to the lack of overseas players that it is the A side.

Fiji are a good side though it depends who they have got for it.

South Africa have got their mojo back without relying on a huge pack (would put Ireland and France ahead of them for physicality). Can see the first team there.

Argentina are going to be coming off a long season where they are finally having some success at club level. They will want revenge, but what standard does Toonie think they are at.

Looking at that, young players may get a shot at Wales and Fiji before coalescing around a starting 23 for the last two games.

by **RDW** Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:35 pm

There's no way in hell we should be putting out a young team against Fiji - they've got more than enough power and skill to cause us real problems.

We will probably put an A team out against Wales then play the strongest possible team for the next 3 games - or at least I hope we do.

by tigertattie Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:40 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:There's no way in hell we should be putting out a young team against Fiji - they've got more than enough power and skill to cause us real problems.

We will probably put an A team out against Wales then play the strongest possible team for the next 3 games - or at least I hope we do.

I'm not sure we'll put an "A" team out against Wales as it's the inaugural "Doddie" cup. It's down as being a full cap so if we put an "A" team out then we'll get humped by Wales

by **RDW** Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:43 pm

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:There's no way in hell we should be putting out a young team against Fiji - they've got more than enough power and skill to cause us real problems.

We will probably put an A team out against Wales then play the strongest possible team for the next 3 games - or at least I hope we do.

I'm not sure we'll put an "A" team out against Wales as it's the inaugural "Doddie" cup. It's down as being a full cap so if we put an "A" team out then we'll get humped by Wales

The chat at the time seemed to be that both teams were seeing at as a game to play fringe players as a warm up to the main AI games. I don’t see the point in Wales and Scotland putting full strength teams out against each other in what is meant to be a rest week before the AIs. I’m not sure either will have access to non-domestic players too as it is outside the international window.

by **George Carlin** Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:41 am

tigertattie wrote:You know what really gets on my goat? Russell Brand!

just saying

Regards
Victor Meldrew

Russell Brand is a great example of someone who confuses 'speaking intelligently' with 'saying a large number of words'.

by EWT Spoons Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:55 am

Scott - 12 or 13? He plays 12 for Scotland (or did last time out) and at Edinburgh (1st time round) but Gloucester played him at 13, I believe. So it'll be interesting to see how he lines up for Edinburgh this season, as I think that will dictate his chances of getting in the Scotland team. At 13, Jones has that shirt nailed on, currently, but 12 is up for grabs due to injuries and form.

I assume RC plans to use him at 12, but we have Dean, Socino (think he plays 12) and him all gunning for the 12 shirt, at 13 we have Bennett and Johnstone, so it's possible Cockers sees Matt as a 13 rather than a 12.

by **RDW** Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:59 am

It has been a while since we've said this, but his full title is Matt Scott (12).

I quite liked seeing him at 13 for Gloucester as he was really destructive in the wider channels. It did expose his defencive positioning a bit though. He has the attributes for 12 and is certainly physical enough.

At Edinburgh we have:

12 - Scott, Dean, Socino,
13 - Bennett, JJ

With both Scott and Dean able to play 12 or 13. I reckon our first choice pairing will be

12 Scott
13 Bennett

But he may end up playing 13 at times too.

by tigertattie Tue Jul 03, 2018 11:19 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:You never watched Big Bang Theory tattie? They taught millions of people worldwide about Schroedinger's cat!

I'm not sure jimbo's metaphor really works as it is all to do with two distinct realities being possible at the same time as far as I know, but I ain't no philosopher...

ze possibilities both exist at ze same time until one clicks "send" on a post and collapses ze wave function

Jimbo is always posting and not posting until he posts

Tramptastic, you have touched on one of the quandaries of the Digital Age: people only feel an experience is validated once it has been selfied and posted on the twittesphere. I post therefore I am. My own personal opinion is that such people are nothing more than egocentric, onanistic, self-abusers.

Your genius lies in spotting the Hamlet moment, "To post or not to post...Aye there's the rub."

Right I'm only 27 but I detest parts of this social media age, for example "Your friend, person A, has been tagged at Edinburgh Festival Fireworks", what follows is a video of said fireworks which nobody will ever watch again. The person I feel sorry for the most is the the poster because they've just watched the entire fireworks show through a lense - the most pointless waste of time ever because several thousands others will have done the same.

That and videoing a music gig - just enjoy it you idiots! You don't need video evidence that you were there!!!

Did a gig even happen if no-one was there to take a shoddy video with the worst sound quality?

Yes. Yes it did.

What the actual F.......

Watching the news and they are showing footage of engurlund fans watching the game on a big screen and at least two rockets were filming the big screen. Mind boggles

by **George Carlin** Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:00 am

BigGee wrote:This thread is not really turning into anything controversial!

Player of the season: Me

Forward of the season: Radge

Back of the season: Me

Young player of the season: George Horne

Debut of the season: Daisy Ridley

‘Must do better’ award: FES for not posting anything any more

by jimbopip Wed Jul 04, 2018 2:52 pm

Hazel Sapling wrote:
He could have become world class considering how good he is without even playing. Reminds me of Ledley King from football (Wendyball in Jimboan) fame.

It's not quite "Wildean" but I have officially begat an adjective. Yahoo

You guys

Also I have got tickets for the Sooth Effrikka game in November. Yahoo

I shall be with Bru and Caz the quiet Bokkie. One behaves like Niles Crane and the other is a six foot four ex-Springbok's Under 18's.

Also warning

let's have no more silly talk of Matt Scott ever playing 12 for Scotland again. The two most inept defensive displays in recent memory were him at 12 against England at Twickers four years ago and him at 12 versus Samoa at St James' in the World Cup. Thankfully Toonie (for all his flakiness ) only picks players who can defend.

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