November tests general

First topic message reminder :


The list is below. Any predictions as to what might happen?
https://www.autumn-internationals.co.uk/2018/


WEEK 1
Saturday 3rd November 2018

-Japan v New Zealand
Ajinomoto Stadium, Tokyo
Kick off: 5:45am

-Wales v Scotland
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:45pm

-England v South Africa
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Ireland v Italy
Soldier Field, Chicago
Kick off: 8:00pm



WEEK 2
Saturday 10th November 2018

-Italy v Georgia
Stadio Artemio Franchi, Florence
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Fiji
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v New Zealand
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v Australia
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v Argentina
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v South Africa
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 3
Saturday 17th November 2018

-Italy v Australia
Stadio Euganeo, Padua
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Wales v Tonga
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Japan
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Scotland v South Africa
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v New Zealand
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 7:00pm

-France v Argentina
Stade Pierre-Mauroy, Lille
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 4
Saturday 24th November 2018

-Italy v New Zealand
Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Kick off: 2:00pm

-Scotland v Argentina
BT Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh
Kick off: 2:30pm

-England v Australia
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 3:00pm

-Wales v South Africa
Principality Stadium, Cardiff
Kick off: 5:20pm

-Ireland v USA
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
Kick off: 6:30pm

-France v Fiji
Stade de France, Paris
Kick off: 7:45pm



WEEK 5
Saturday 1st December 2018

-Barbarians v Argentina
Twickenham Stadium, London
Kick off: 2:30pm

LordDowlais wrote:It's a few more quid for another.

Hard to quibble against someone wanting to earn a few quid more isn't it? Seems like an entirely understandable emotion

No 7&1/2 wrote: there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.

That's ridiculous though isn't it.

Ronan O'Gara would be American if that was the rule.

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.

That's ridiculous though isn't it.

Ronan O'Gara would be American if that was the rule.

Apparently not.

I'm not one of the others rugby fan!

Okay................ so let's do the theory and logic.

These players have financial reasons for wanting to play International elsewhere and they have more noble reasons (wanting to test themselves at the highest levels of the sport - and International still is the highest level of our sport - plus wanting to sometimes show their home nation what that Nation is missing; a middle finger if you will)

That last bit actually suggests hurt and anger - but hurt

...and therefore, it also actually suggests that the Nation the players left is still very much in their heart and thoughts.  Playing for their adopted Nation might then be described as a poignant letter of rejected love back to their home Nation.  "Still love my country and want to prove I could'a made it if you'd given me the chance..... I could'a been a contender!"

Anyway..................the way people talk about the complexities of these players; I ask myself if everything they do is legitimate (and yes, legally it's legitimate)...if they have rights to have their own ideas about why they want to play rugby, why they want to play International rugby.................. then why the dumb rule of denying a player a chance to change his thinking half way through his career?  

Isn't that as limiting on the aspirations of a player to say "Nah, you can't go back home now and play for them because they've seen the error of their ways and now might like you to join up with them.... the Nation deep in your heart - still. You can't do that, it's unethical."

What's the big idea of curtailing a player's expectations of a career at International under the heading: "I've changed my mind and want to go home now and play for the country of my birth."

People seem to so readily accept the limits imposed on one end whilst arguing for understanding at the other end.

Pot Hale wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If we're focusing again on internationals then wanting to test themselves at the highest level would come into it.

Absolutely - particularly against the nation that didn’t consider them.   It’s a badge of pride for some of them.  

Perhaps...Shields gets to experience that but in all honesty I dont think he’ll have that ‘Im gonna git you’ feeling. That will take his mind off his task at hand. So to perform well he’ll have to have an enormous amount of self discipline because in the end, a lot of our guys will be his lifelong mates, having won titles together. Comes down to that common comraderie in the end, especially with someone like Shields whos if anything a team player.

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If we're focusing again on internationals then wanting to test themselves at the highest level would come into it.

Absolutely - particularly against the nation that didn’t consider them.   It’s a badge of pride for some of them.  

Perhaps...Shields gets to experience that but in all honesty I dont think he’ll have that ‘Im gonna git you’ feeling. That will take his mind off his task at hand. So to perform well he’ll have to have an enormous amount of self discipline because in the end, a lot of our guys will be his lifelong mates, having won titles together. Comes down to that common comraderie in the end, especially with someone like Shields whos if anything a team player.

But that's the joy of rugby: you knock lumps out of your mates on the pitch, and then the whistle goes and you're mates again.

International team mates compete with each other every week in club competition. Kids who grew up through the system as teenagers stand on opposing sides and flatten each other. Rivals from international teams pull on the same club shirt and fight in the common cause. Doesn't stop them being able to play together... or against each other.

Pop quiz: who was the first England player to get red carded at Twickenham, and what for?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Got your answer?

It was Lewis Moody. Who lamped a Samoan player after a head-high tackle. Who was the Samoan? Alesana Tuilagi. Who played with Moody for 6 years and about 90 games at Leicester.

Rugby players have no difficulty setting their prior loyalties aside between the whistles.

Shields to Eddie: "Please sir, can I not hit me mates on the other side please? We're pals and all that and..... I'm willing to run and catch balls and things but............. whadd'ya'say?"

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.

That's ridiculous though isn't it.

Ronan O'Gara would be American if that was the rule.

Exactly it's ridiculous that people just look at where players are born and then automatically think they must be from said country. I remember reading an interview with Ma Nonu and keven mealamu who both said growing up they had always dreamed of playing for Samoa, despite the fact they may have never even set foot in the country.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.

That's ridiculous though isn't it.

Ronan O'Gara would be American if that was the rule.

Exactly it's ridiculous that people just look at where players are born and then automatically think they must be from said country. I remember reading an interview with Ma Nonu and keven mealamu who both said growing up they had always dreamed of playing for Samoa, despite the fact they may have never even set foot in the country.

'May' is a very big word there.  You'd need proof to use it.

Apart from the emotional bit - ie. the two sides of the argument as it were; people who were born in a certain place ARE from that place.  They may only spend a few weeks in it and then never set foot in that place again for the rest of their lives.... but it's always going to be on their Birth Cert that they were born in [............].   It's always part of them; maybe a very small part in emotional terms but an intrinsic identity, to go along with names and eye colour and favourite music and finger prints.


And now we progress I'm sure to three more pages debating the precise meaning of 'from'.

Why do I open these cans of worms? - a masochist probably

Poorfour wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:If we're focusing again on internationals then wanting to test themselves at the highest level would come into it.

Absolutely - particularly against the nation that didn’t consider them.   It’s a badge of pride for some of them.  

Perhaps...Shields gets to experience that but in all honesty I dont think he’ll have that ‘Im gonna git you’ feeling. That will take his mind off his task at hand. So to perform well he’ll have to have an enormous amount of self discipline because in the end, a lot of our guys will be his lifelong mates, having won titles together. Comes down to that common comraderie in the end, especially with someone like Shields whos if anything a team player.

But that's the joy of rugby: you knock lumps out of your mates on the pitch, and then the whistle goes and you're mates again.

International team mates compete with each other every week in club competition. Kids who grew up through the system as teenagers stand on opposing sides and flatten each other. Rivals from international teams pull on the same club shirt and fight in the common cause. Doesn't stop them being able to play together... or against each other.

Pop quiz: who was the first England player to get red carded at Twickenham, and what for?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Got your answer?

It was Lewis Moody. Who lamped a Samoan player after a head-high tackle. Who was the Samoan? Alesana Tuilagi. Who played with Moody for 6 years and about 90 games at Leicester.

Rugby players have no difficulty setting their prior loyalties aside between the whistles.

Yep, agree with that. Probably a good thing to be onside with Alesana as well I guess

Thats why this is all a beat up. Hansens stirring the pot but match and post match especially the huge amount of respect these guys have for eachother will always be there. Hes right about the anthem and haka though. Shields wont be able to avoid mixed feelings no matter how he prepares for it. Its as real as any confirmation of where hes at in his career...and life...as it can get. Hes just gotta ride it, and enjoy it. Few get to experience what he will be.

SecretFly wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

RugbyFan100 wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote: there's others that don't like people qualifying through their parents.

That's ridiculous though isn't it.

Ronan O'Gara would be American if that was the rule.

Exactly it's ridiculous that people just look at where players are born and then automatically think they must be from said country. I remember reading an interview with Ma Nonu and keven mealamu who both said growing up they had always dreamed of playing for Samoa, despite the fact they may have never even set foot in the country.

'May' is a very big word there.  You'd need proof to use it.

Apart from the emotional bit - ie. the two sides of the argument as it were; people who were born in a certain place ARE from that place.  They may only spend a few weeks in it and then never set foot in that place again for the rest of their lives.... but it's always going to be on their Birth Cert that they were born in [............].   It's always part of them; maybe a very small part in emotional terms but an intrinsic identity, to go along with names and eye colour and favourite music and finger prints.


And now we progress I'm sure to three more pages debating the precise meaning of 'from'.

Why do I open these cans of worms? - a masochist probably

Masochism?? Here ya go.

Just so we have them, here’s some boring stats on where people were born that play in the Premiership and PRO14. (For non-Europeans and hard of hearing, this does not include France).

The numbers includes all the senior and academy/development players that I found listed. Most of the academy players don’t have a separate profile that gives their birthplace, just their union as registered with WR. 98% of them are home-grown it would appear.

Ive used the wiki pages for each of the teams which are normally accurate and up to date but I can’t swear on a bible to it:

To be clear, it is their place of birth only. We know that a good few grew up somewhere different; or some moved when they were 21 days, 21 months or 21 years and/or some have parentage, etc.
(I was amazed to find an American test player who had actuallly been born on the Aran Islands off the west coast of Ireland, studied at uni in the US, and is now playing for a club in England. He still got the shamrock stamp.)

England - Premiership

690 players total across 12 teams - average players per squad - 58
English -born: 462 - 67%
SH-born - 147 - 21%
NH-born - 81 - 12%

PRO14 - Ireland, Italy, Scotland & Wales

727 players across 12 teams - average 61 players
Home country-born - 551 - 76%
SH-born - 108 - 15%
NH-born - 68 - 9%

SH birth countries I found are - Aus, Arg, Fiji, Namibia, NZ, SA, Samoa, Tonga, Zimbabwe
NH birth countries I found are - Scot, Eng, Irl, Wal, Italy, Fra, Germany, USA, Canada, Netherlands, Georgia, Spain, Portugal, Monaco, St Lucia, Romania, Albania, Guinea, Russia, Nigeria, Hong Kong, Moldova

Birth numbers from countries
SA - 87
NZ - 69
Eng - 43
Aus - 39
Wal - 27
Sco - 22
Arg - 14
Irl - 13
Ton/Fij - 12
USA - 10
Sam/Zim - 8
Fra/Geo - 5
Nam - 4
Ita/Can/Ger - 3
Mol/Spa - 2
The rest are 1

Geez, those are massive numbers, surprised weve any left, oh, hang on, there might be a tongan schoolboy somewhere around here.
And that 108 will certainly be of higher average quality than the 551, given if they werent they woukdnt be there. So its not just about quantity, its also about quality. Any chance you know the average salaries across those numbers? Thats where the impact would really start to show.

Hats off to you, Pot. You certainly do put in a good day's work for this here 606 company.

Just not clear on that last list "Birth numbers from countries". What do those numbers signify? Apologies, I know... I'm dumb - a slow learner.

Oh wait, I get it now........... 13 Irish players swimming around in Premiership and Pro14 but outside Ireland?

Christ, we're a miserly bunch. Good going. Hope it continues

Taylorman wrote:Geez, those are massive numbers, surprised weve any left, oh, hang on, there might be a tongan schoolboy somewhere around here.
And that 108 will certainly be of higher average quality than the 551, given if they werent they woukdnt be there. So its not just about quantity, its also about quality. Any chance you know the average salaries across those numbers? Thats where the impact would really start to show.

No, not necessarily. SH players are often brought over for when international players are away.

The Oracle wrote:

Taylorman wrote:Geez, those are massive numbers, surprised weve any left, oh, hang on, there might be a tongan schoolboy somewhere around here.
And that 108 will certainly be of higher average quality than the 551, given if they werent they woukdnt be there. So its not just about quantity, its also about quality. Any chance you know the average salaries across those numbers? Thats where the impact would really start to show.

No, not necessarily. SH players are often brought over for when international players are away.

Hence the question re the salaries. And its actually 255 is it, those are mutually exclusive numbers? and does this not count France, the grand daddy of them all. Then of course we have big numbers in Japan.

Geez, they may as well just hand the teamsheets over to us to fill in

Kidding by the way. Clearly getting pros in from around the globe is big business.

Taylorman wrote:Geez, those are massive numbers, surprised we've any left, oh, hang on, there might be a tongan schoolboy somewhere around here.
And that 108 will certainly be of higher average quality than the 551, given if they werent they woukdnt be there. So its not just about quantity, its also about quality. Any chance you know the average salaries across those numbers? Thats where the impact would really start to show.

I'm slightly lost, T-man.  What are you comparing the 108 SH-born players in PRO14 with?

The 108 would include senior and junior players ranging from Rodney Ah You, Joey Carbery, Louis Ludik and David Horwitz and Kenyan Knox.   They all vary in quality completely.   Some of the players left where they were born and didn't necessarily grow up in a SANZAR country at all.    I couldn't give you an average salary - don't know enough data about them all.  SH-born players in Connacht would be on a lot less than ones in Leinster - ditto if they're in Dragons or say Zebre.

The breakdown of that 108 by individual union is IRFU 31; WRU 31; SRU 26 and FIR 20.

Yes - it is 255 SH-born in total out of 1,417 players in Premiership and PRO14.    

The Top14 figures in France are

597 players - mainly senior squads only - CDF (academy) players are not listed bar one team.
French-born - 361 - 61%
SH-born - 188
NH-born - 48

SH birth-countries expanded to include Tahiti, Trinidad & Tobago, Wallis & Fortuna, Uruguay, Colombia
NH birth countries expanded to include Cameroon, Burka Fasino, Ghana

So cumulatively that's 443 SH-born players out of 2,014 players - 22% of the total.

Next up the PROD2 in France

Top 12 birth countries

SA - 137
NZ - 117
AUS - 63
ENG - 47
FIJ - 39
TON - 27
WAL - 28
SCO - 25
ARG - 25
GEO - 24
IRL - 21
SAM - 18

Oh - and France has 6.

The PROD2 figures for SH-born players is 123 in total.

So the country totals for professional players born in SH playing in Six Nations is:

Total 567

France has 311 - 55%
Home Unions have 235 = 41%

England 147 - 26%
Ireland 31 - 5.5%
Wales 31 - 5.5%
Scotland 26 - 4.6%

Italy 20 - 3.5%

Geez, thanks Pot, France then England, then the reasonables

Italy v Georgia about to kick off.

Pity there's so many games overlapping.

profitius wrote:Italy v Georgia about to kick off.

Pity there's so many games overlapping.

Hopefully this is the start of a good rivalry between them. There's no reason why Georgia can't host Italy for a summer series, Georgia would sell out their national stadium with ease.

Italy beat them fair and square.

Delighted for them. Might stop the usual whines from the usual suspects come the 6N.

Pot Hale wrote:Italy beat them fair and square.  

Did anyone really expect Italy to Lose? Georgia's team is still mostly made up of semi pros. They have plenty of props but still struggle to produce top quality 2nd and backrows let alone backs.

They still have a long way to go and I think Haig, who has done a fantastic job has taken them as far as he can. His tactics are a bit negative and with this new exciting generation of Georgians (see their underage results) coming through, they may need a new coach to get the best out of them.

Saturday 17th - fixtures

Italy vs Australia
KO 2pm

Wales vs Tonga
KO 2:30pm

England vs Japan
KO 3pm

Scotland vs South Africa
KO 5:20pm

Ireland vs New Zealand
KO 7pm

France vs Argentina
KO 8:05pm

---

Highlights

Ireland vs New Zealand promises to be the must-see match of the weekend, with second in the world hosting first in the world. New Zealand didn't have it all their own way in the Rugby Championship (for the first time in 3 years) and looked vulnerable against England. Ireland have looked quite impressive, winning a Grand Slam and an away series in Australia this year.

Scotland vs South Africa also looks like a good match-up. Scotland have been good at home for the past few seasons and South Africa have shown they're on the rise since June. It will be a test that both teams really expect to win, which always makes for compulsive viewing.

France vs Argentina is the third game of note for me. Both teams are in the same World Cup pool with England, and this game in 10 months time could end up acting as a direct eliminator. It's one France will expect to win with Argentina's recent form, but France have had some indifferent results themselves.

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Italy beat them fair and square.  

Did anyone really expect Italy to Lose? Georgia's team is still mostly made up of semi pros. They have plenty of props but still struggle to produce top quality 2nd and backrows let alone backs.

They still have a long way to go and I think Haig, who has done a fantastic job has taken them as far as he can. His tactics are a bit negative and with this new exciting generation of Georgians (see their underage results) coming through, they may need a new coach to get the best out of them.

The problem is the middle of the rankings kind of lie and so people assume Georgia is the equal of Italy. To be fair though Georgia were missing key plsyers. Fiji, and Georgia generally win their annual tournament which results in big point gains. Italy lose theirs so there is a big shift in points.

Currently Fiji, Japan, Italy and possibly USA (who beat a poor Scoland team that Italy would have beaten off the pitch)are the ones fighting it out for automatic quailifcation at the world Cup. For the Cost to WR I think 3-4 in the WC should also have knockout for the Sheild/Plate and have the four semi finalist get auto qualification.

Brendan wrote:

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:Italy beat them fair and square.  

Did anyone really expect Italy to Lose? Georgia's team is still mostly made up of semi pros. They have plenty of props but still struggle to produce top quality 2nd and backrows let alone backs.

They still have a long way to go and I think Haig, who has done a fantastic job has taken them as far as he can. His tactics are a bit negative and with this new exciting generation of Georgians (see their underage results) coming through, they may need a new coach to get the best out of them.

The problem is the middle of the rankings kind of lie and so people assume Georgia is the equal of Italy.  To be fair though Georgia were missing key plsyers. Fiji, and Georgia generally win their annual tournament which results in big point gains.  Italy lose theirs so there is a big shift in points.

Currently Fiji, Japan, Italy and possibly USA (who beat a poor Scoland team that Italy would have beaten off the pitch)are the ones fighting it out for automatic quailifcation at the world Cup.  For the Cost to WR I think 3-4 in the WC should also have knockout for the Sheild/Plate and have the four semi finalist get auto qualification.

Looking at the likely world cup -
Group A: Ireland and Scotland to qualify. Japan and Samoa to "play-off" for 3rd and auto-qualification. Russia to also take part.
Group B: New Zealand and South Africa to qualify. Italy to secure 3rd against Namibia and Repechage Winner.
Group C: England, France and Argentina competing for qualification, with the loser at least securing qualification. Tonga and USA also in pool.
Group D: Australia and Wales to qualify. Georgia and Fiji to "play-off" for 3rd and auto-qualification. Uruguay also at the tournament.

Barring any shocks, we're probably going to get two competitive third placed play-offs to secure qualification with Japan, Samoa, Fiji and Georgia. Italy will walk 3rd on the back of an easy 4/5 combo in their pool. Tonga and USA will almost certainly miss out due to having the strongest third seed (Argentina) in the pool).

In terms of a plate, you would have a competition involving (probably):
Cup QFs:
Japan vs Namibia
Italy vs Samoa
Argentina vs Georgia
Fiji vs Tonga/USA

Cup SFs:
Japan vs Fiji
Italy vs Argentina

I think there would be definite interest in that, especially if the first round doubled up as your qualification game. You could play the games midweek in the smaller, regional stadium used in the pool stages (e.g. in 2015 the knock-outs were primarily in London with a couple of games in Cardiff. The shield games could have continued to use places basically anywhere outside of London).

Logistically, it could work. Currently, every pool has their last game on Sunday 13th October (and just 1 game). If you had two of the pools finish on the Saturday (e.g. A and B), you could then play the first two fixtures on the Thursday, and the second two fixtures on the Friday. This would ensure everyone gets at least 4 off days before their play-off game, and it wouldn't interfere with the cup quarters on the Saturday and Sunday. You could then play semis on Thursday and Friday and the final on a Friday.

I think it may be worth a trial.

On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

alanmackie6 wrote:On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

Answer: they weren't.

The Oracle wrote:

alanmackie6 wrote:On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

Answer: they weren't.  

Ireland played Italy in Chicago for money. Same story for the Scotland Wales fixture. It generated extra revenue Id imagine was the only reason and they probably couldn't get any of the other sides to play them

Collapse2005 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

alanmackie6 wrote:On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

Answer: they weren't.  

Ireland played Italy in Chicago for money. Same story for the Scotland Wales fixture. It generated extra revenue Id imagine was the only reason and they probably couldn't get any of the other sides to play them

Same as NZ playing Australia in Japan.  

and presumably NZ playing Japan in Japan.

I was being pedantic to be honest! They were not '6N games' as they were not part of the 6N tournament. Just happened to involve some of the 6N teams. More of it coming up too as we warm up for the world cup.

alanmackie6 wrote:On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

Forgive me if I'm wrong wasn't the best hand off comment about Jonathan Davies whilst the elbow across the throat comment was about AW Jones?

I think WR should do the plate competition before they expand to 24 teams. If they added 4 teams (taking that Rominia should be in the WC instead of Russia but had problems) it would between the following teams
Americas - Canada, (USA & Uruguay auto quailied)
Europe - Spain, Russia, Germany (Portugal dropped out of the top division and similar level to Belgium)
Africa - Keyna
Aisa - Hong Kong

If they were added in most would be like Japan in 1995. Better to bring up current 20 than open it up to more for the moment.

Europe has by far the most compeditive second tier of any region.
WC apperances outside of the 6 Nations and number of time and last apperance
Georgia 4 2015 (last 4)
Rominia 8 2015 (all 8)
Spain 1 1999
Portugal 1 2007
Russia 1 2011 (2019)
Germany are hoping to be the 6th team but will need to get past Canada. In 2015 Russia missed out to Uruguay on points after both won their home game. In 2003 Spain lost to the USA in their final.

Pot Hale wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:

alanmackie6 wrote:On Saturday last,we had a tremendous game of rugby,England lost just,but proved
they are still a force despite recent run of games.
Ireland won despite playing badly,SA last play of the game more or less,Wales won
which frankly was all you could say for the game.Loved the comment player x has
best fend/hand off in the business.YES an elbow across the throat works wonders!!
EJ`s summing up was excellent praising his side who played well without blaming
the officials[face it they see/miss/acton]for both sides.
Just a question why were 6Ns games being played during AI`s?
Nz/Ireland MAY have believed the hype at first then had to scrap to win.
Next 2 weeks bring them on England should give any squad members a game
v Japan who haven't yet played.
This time next year it will be all over SA orAus?winners NZ surely not again?

Answer: they weren't.  

Ireland played Italy in Chicago for money. Same story for the Scotland Wales fixture. It generated extra revenue Id imagine was the only reason and they probably couldn't get any of the other sides to play them

Same as NZ playing Australia in Japan.  

No, NZ in chicago was about money. Yokohama vs oz wasnt about making money, it was a home match for NZ who if they wanted money would have had it at Eden park, but instead wanted to play at the world cup venue. The match was underwritten by Japan for any losses.

Japan vs NZ financials arent clear but NZ had apparently arranged it so they did ok regardless of tickets sold.

So it was for financial reasons then.

Collapse2005 wrote:So it was for financial reasons then.

Chicago? Definitely. Result was secondary. Paid for the RC flights.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So it was for financial reasons then.

Chicago? Definitely. Result was secondary. Paid for the RC flights.

You are obsessed with that game. Have you managed to convince yourself the result was meaningless?

Are you really saying that nz pull on that famed back jersey and sometimes don't care as long as they get the money? Wow.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So it was for financial reasons then.

Chicago? Definitely. Result was secondary. Paid for the RC flights.

You are obsessed with that game. Have you managed to convince yourself the result was meaningless?

Not as obsessed as scoring five tries v england. Who does that?

Oh, and I noticed you went missing when nz started clawing back into the england game. Ive seen that a lot from chirpers. They disappear when the heats on. Be interesting how ‘present’ you are during and after the irish match. On one site an english supporter disappeared for an entire year after world cup 15 after months of putting oz rugby down before it. Hope youre not gonna be like that.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Are you really saying that nz pull on that famed back jersey and sometimes don't care as long as they get the money? Wow.

Sometimes you just gotta bring the money in. You think we’d actually choose to play that jersey in chicago is your real question. No. We wouldnt. Gotta pay the bills sunshine.

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So it was for financial reasons then.

Chicago? Definitely. Result was secondary. Paid for the RC flights.

You are obsessed with that game. Have you managed to convince yourself the result was meaningless?

Not as obsessed as scoring five tries v england. Who does that?

Oh, and I noticed you went missing when nz started clawing back into the england game. Ive seen that a lot from chirpers. They disappear when the heats on. Be interesting how ‘present’ you are during and after the irish match. On one site an english supporter disappeared for an entire year after world cup 15 after months of putting oz rugby down before it. Hope youre not gonna be like that.

I didn't go missing I went to the Ireland v Argentina match. You obviously have an unhealthy obsession with my movements.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:So it was for financial reasons then.

Chicago? Definitely. Result was secondary. Paid for the RC flights.

You are obsessed with that game. Have you managed to convince yourself the result was meaningless?

Not as obsessed as scoring five tries v england. Who does that?

Oh, and I noticed you went missing when nz started clawing back into the england game. Ive seen that a lot from chirpers. They disappear when the heats on. Be interesting how ‘present’ you are during and after the irish match. On one site an english supporter disappeared for an entire year after world cup 15 after months of putting oz rugby down before it. Hope youre not gonna be like that.

I didn't go missing I went to the Ireland v Argentina match. You obviously have an unhealthy obsession with my movements.

All good, leave you to it before the complaints start coming in. Been a bore, but I expected less anyway.

Do you want me to check in with you first before I go offline?

Like I said I'm surprised you think that taylor. Don't belive you either though!

Brendan wrote:I think WR should do the plate competition before they expand to 24 teams.  If they added 4 teams (taking that Rominia should be in the WC instead of Russia but had problems) it would between the following teams
Americas - Canada, (USA & Uruguay auto quailied)
Europe - Spain, Russia, Germany (Portugal dropped out of the top division and similar level to Belgium)
Africa - Keyna
Aisa - Hong Kong

If they were added in most would be like Japan in 1995.  Better to bring up current 20 than open it up to more for the moment.

Europe has by far the most compeditive second tier of any region.
WC apperances outside of the 6 Nations and number of time and last apperance
Georgia 4 2015 (last 4)
Rominia 8 2015 (all 8)
Spain 1 1999
Portugal 1 2007
Russia 1 2011 (2019)
Germany are hoping to be the 6th team but will need to get past Canada.  In 2015 Russia missed out to Uruguay on points after both won their home game. In 2003 Spain lost to the USA in their final.

I don't think rugby is quite ready to go to 24 teams, yet. Although the likes of Georgia, Japan and the USA are starting to really come good, Canada's form has fallen off a cliff and they look like they could be in a close game with Germany, which really would have been unthinkable a couple of years ago. Other emerging nations such as Kenya, who looked like they might stop Namibia's dominance have completely failed to live up to promise.

It’s a tricky one. I’d say the gap between the ‘top’ nations and the rest is as strong as ever. The four SH Nations + the top 5 NH nations (Italy are going backwards) are a big leap above everyone else. Gone are the days when the likes of Fiji and Samoa are going to cause upsets in the World Cup now that Wales, Scotland and Ireland have got their act together. Georgia, for all their promise, are weaker than Italy. USA and Canada haven’t come good. Japan had their moment with Eddie but are on a downward trend. It’s business as usual.

We could put our U20's, NZ maori and Womens teams in if it helps, perhaps even our Sevens now young 'Ice cube' Nico Jones has a contract there.