Wales v South Africa Saturday 24th November 2018

First topic message reminder :

Wales v South Africa
Date: Saturday 24th November 2018

Venue: Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Kick Off: 5:20pm

Referee: Luke Pearce (England)

TV Coverage: Live on BBC Two and S4C

Wales will face South Africa at the Principality Stadium in Cardiff on Saturday 24th November during the Under Armour Series 2018. This will be the fourth and final autumn international to be played by Wales in 2018. The two teams will compete for the Prince William Cup, which was created by the WRU in 2007 to celebrate 100 years of rugby between Wales and South Africa.

Wales have beaten the Springboks in each of their last three encounters. The most recent win came during a summer tour match in Washington DC, where Wales emerged 22-20 victors.

Wales and South Africa have contested a total of 34 rugby test matches since their first meeting in 1906. Wales have won five of those matches, whilst South Africa have won 28 matches. Wales and South Africa also drew a match in 1970.

Springboks coach Erasmus expecting 'toughest test'

South Africa coach Rassie Erasmus says Wales will provide the toughest test of their tour.

The Springboks are hoping to build on victories against France and Scotland after a narrow loss against England.

Wales are on an eight-match unbeaten run and aiming to complete a first autumn clean sweep after beating Scotland, Australia and Tonga.

"We have four tough matches on this tour but are ending probably with the toughest," said Erasmus.

Wales have won their last three games against the Springboks with home victories in 2016 and 2017 and a tour triumph in Washington DC in June 2018.

"We desperately want to win and it will be a physical and tactical test," added Erasmus.

"The way they manage the game is a typical northern hemisphere side and Warren Gatland really understands the technical side.

"To keep a job like this in a rugby-mad country for so long shows his quality. What I can see from him in this specific cycle is the way he is building depth for the World Cup."

Captain Siya Kolisi is available after escaping with an official warning from World Rugby's citing commissioner for a head-butt incident in the 26-20 victory over Scotland.

Lock Eben Etzebeth also faces a fitness test on Tuesday on the leg injury that forced him off against England and resulted in him missing the wins over France and Scotland.

Erasmus says influential Sale Sharks scrum-half Faf de Klerk will miss the game because he wants to look at other nines like Embrose Papier and Ivan van Zyl.

De Klerk has been named on World Rugby's player of the year shortlist alongside fellow South African Malcolm Marx, New Zealand duo Beauden Barrett and Rieko Ioane and Ireland fly-half Johnny Sexton.

De Klerk missed the victory over Scotland and was released back to Sale, although Erasmus has insisted there are no contractual issues.

Wales are ranked third in the world behind New Zealand and Ireland who defeated the All Blacks last weekend and Erasmus rates their World Cup chances.

"It's an open race," said Erasmus.

"New Zealand and Ireland are the clear favourites but Wales are hovering there and are almost like silent assassins at this stage.

"If we manage to beat Wales this weekend the only team we have not beaten who are real contenders is Ireland.

"That gives us hope but it will not be easy."

South Africa will be a different proposition from the team that lost in Cardiff last year with Erasmus taking over at the start of 2018.

It has still proved a mixed year of results but the Springboks managed a famous away win in New Zealand and lie fifth in the world rankings.

Yes, agree, Biggar should start, especially with no 1/2p.

We need experienced heads...

Not really no.

I think it will be the same XV that started v Australia, with Williams for Halfpenny. Bench probably similar too in Dee, Evans, Lewis, Ball/Hill (I would guess Hill), Jenkins, Williams, Biggar and I’m not really sure on the last spot (it might be Amos with his ability to cover 13-15 in theory, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see Patchell on there as fullback cover).

I'd be very surprised if Biggar starts.

Why would you be surprised Lucky? I think he is the best option at 10 for Wales given what I, and others, have said on this thread.

Who do you see at 10?

Biggar has been pretty average in a stuttering Saints team this season.

If Halfpenny was fit, I would start Patchell, he is big and fast, like the South African backs, but as I reckon this will be won by the boot, like the Australia game, then I would start Biggar.

He is no stranger to SA, and he has beaten them before, the kid can put a good shift in defence, and he has an excelent kicking game.

It'll be Anscombe at 10. I think he's got the all-round game Gatland's looking for.

SA backs bar Pollard, de Allende and Kriel not big at all.

Biltong wrote:SA backs bar Pollard, de Allende and Kriel not big at all.

Not big, or are everybody else getting as big ?

I am yet to see a small rugby player, my nephew is in the Cardiff Blues academy he is 17 and built like a Greek god.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Biggar has been pretty average in a stuttering Saints team this season.

But very composed versus Tonga. Hes a test match animal and Gatland is a huge fan.

I'd be comfortable with any of our 10s starting though I wouldn't want Gareth Davies and Biggar starting together.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:It'll be Anscombe at 10. I think he's got the all-round game Gatland's looking for.

Yes I think that as well.

But I think Biggar would be the better choice.

I don't agree that he would be the better choice.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't agree that he would be the better choice.

Care to elaborate ?

Wales to win by 10. I think they have smarts to see this one home. Fingers crossed.

You can't fault his commitment, but he's a limited player. He just doesn't make a backline tick for me. If you've got a monster pack or it's p!ssing down with rain, he'll be great, but we're not going to beat the Boks playing ten-man rugby. Anscombe looked very assured against the Wallabies, a match we actually won for once, so there's no reason at all that he should lose his shirt to the man who played ten in a win over Tonga.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You can't fault his commitment, but he's a limited player. He just doesn't make a backline tick for me. If you've got a monster pack or it's p!ssing down with rain, he'll be great, but we're not going to beat the Boks playing ten-man rugby. Anscombe looked very assured against the Wallabies, a match we actually won for once, so there's no reason at all that he should lose his shirt to the man who played ten in a win over Tonga.

Good point. I did not consider that, yes we beat the Aussies, the difference this time was Anscombe playing at 10. Perhaps he is the better choice. Who is for the bench though ?

I think they'll go for Biggar on the bench, as he was against Australia. I really like Patchell, though. We're lucky to have a bit of choice at ten with the World Cup on the horizon.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think they'll go for Biggar on the bench, as he was against Australia. I really like Patchell, though. We're lucky to have a bit of choice at ten with the World Cup on the horizon.

I am starting to see a little bit of light at the end of the tunnel in this regard.

Also, have you noticed, how much experience we have in the front row, both starting and subs, and consider how young they all are ? Of all our front row, only one player is 30, Ken Owens. The rest are all mid twenties, I do not think any other nation could boast that.

We're really well stocked at lock too, all of a sudden. It's good!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:We're really well stocked at lock too, all of a sudden. It's good!

Yes, we would not have been saying that as little as two years ago.

I'm still a bit concerned with our options at midfield. One injury and we're down to just two proven Test centres. Owen Watkin and Tyler Morgan are definitely still in the 'potential' camp for me. Plus I'm not sold on Gareth Davies as our starting scrum half.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:You can't fault his commitment, but he's a limited player. He just doesn't make a backline tick for me. If you've got a monster pack or it's p!ssing down with rain, he'll be great, but we're not going to beat the Boks playing ten-man rugby. Anscombe looked very assured against the Wallabies, a match we actually won for once, so there's no reason at all that he should lose his shirt to the man who played ten in a win over Tonga.

There’s no reason for any starter from Australia to lose their starting place, to be fair. Maybe only Beard for Hill or Ball, but I am sure with Beard’s height and weight it’s a plus potentially against the Boks. We can’t use a performance against Tonga as a yardstick really, whereas one v Australia it is fair to.

Agreed. And I think we're improved by having Liam Williams at full back over Halfpenny.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I'm still a bit concerned with our options at midfield. One injury and we're down to just two proven Test centres. Owen Watkin and Tyler Morgan are definitely still in the 'potential' camp for me. Plus I'm not sold on Gareth Davies as our starting scrum half.

Lets look at the options:-

Jonathan Davies
Scott Williams
Hadley Parkes
Owen Watkin
Tyler Morgan
Jack Dixon
Cory Allen ?????


A bit thin on the ground I agree, but we have plenty to work with. I am sure there are others I am not considering as well. What troubles you with Gareth Davies ? I prefer him to Webb.

I don't think he offers the control from scrum half that you need, regardless of who your outside half is. The problem is I'm not sure Tomos Williams is the answer either. They're both players you'd want to bring off the bench, IMO. Maybe give Williams a couple of starts in the Six Nations.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't think he offers the control from scrum half that you need, regardless of who your outside half is. The problem is I'm not sure Tomos Williams is the answer either. They're both players you'd want to bring off the bench, IMO. Maybe give Williams a couple of starts in the Six Nations.

He is a bit of a maverick isn't he ? He will tap and go one minute and get isolated, and he will be sublime the next minute, I think he is our best option though, even when you consider Williams, Aled Davies, Rhys Webb.

there was a young scrum half playing for Dragons last season who impressed me, I have forgotten his name now though, but they are out there.

Dan Babos, Dowlais? Every Dragons supporter I've spoken to really liked the look of him too, but he hasn't had a look in this season. I'm sure Bernard knows best....

I thought Rhodri Williams might end up being a dark horse for the World Cup squad, but it really hasn't happened for him so far.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dan Babos, Dowlais? Every Dragons supporter I've spoken to really liked the look of him too, but he hasn't had a look in this season. I'm sure Bernard knows best....

I thought Rhodri Williams might end up being a dark horse for the World Cup squad, but it really hasn't happened for him so far.

Dan Babos. Thats him.

I will not comment on BJ.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Dan Babos, Dowlais? Every Dragons supporter I've spoken to really liked the look of him too, but he hasn't had a look in this season. I'm sure Bernard knows best....

I thought Rhodri Williams might end up being a dark horse for the World Cup squad, but it really hasn't happened for him so far.

It’s clearly coaching with Rhodri. You can’t go from being as electric as he was at Bristol, to being as pragmatic as he is now.

Babos has been a little mistreated, going from near first choice to fourth mind.

At Bristol he'd have always been on the front foot, playing against teams well below the standard of his own.

Now the boot is on the other foot.

Well there is that it was championship, but I wouldn’t say he was so much on the back foot with us. Our pack does tend to have parity. It’s just we have no idea what to do with any ball

It probably will be almost identical to the team that took on Australia. Shifting Anscombe to 15 and starting Biggar at 10 wouldn’t be a bad option. Or it could be Williams to 15 if North is fit, with Adams on the other wing - Gatland will like the physicality. I’m still for swapping Parkes for Watkin, the former looking out of place thus far in the campaign - not sure why though.

The team I would go for is

1. Evans
2. Owens
3. Francis
4. Ball
5. AWJ
6. Jenkins
7. Tipuric
8. Moriarty

9. Davies
10. Biggar
11. North
12. Parkes
13. Davies
14. Adams
15. Williams

16. Dee
17. Jones
18. Lewis
19. Hill
20. Wainwright
21. Williams
22. Patchell
23. Watkin

I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

That was a dire match, can'ttake too much out of that match apart from the result.

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

For me, Smith, Beard and Lydiate would be the big changes I'd make. Rob Evans is top class, I know he's on the bench, but he'll have a bigger impact starting. Ball was brilliant, and I like his added grunt that we don't always seem to have in the forwards. Lydiate is effective, but to me he brings similar attributes to Moriarty, Wainwright is unlucky.

chris_501 wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

For me, Smith, Beard and Lydiate would be the big changes I'd make. Rob Evans is top class, I know he's on the bench, but he'll have a bigger impact starting. Ball was brilliant, and I like his added grunt that we don't always seem to have in the forwards. Lydiate is effective, but to me he brings similar attributes to Moriarty, Wainwright is unlucky.

I agree. Rob Evans would start for me. And I think I'd agree on Ball for Beard.

I might have been tempted to go for Patchell at 10 to link up with his Scarlets 9 and centres, with Anscombe on the bench. That sort of understanding developed over a few years of club play might buy us some important speed and time at this level. But Anscombe has been playing well so no real issue for me. I just don't think Liam Williams is in great form and wonder if he'll boil over against a physical boks team and spend time off the field. Others might have cooler heads for such an encounter. If not LW then who at FB? Which is why I wondered about Anscombe.

Kind of pointless calling Amos up officially in the week.

Team as expected for me. I didn’t think he would go Watkin as number 23 mind.

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

That was a dire match, can'ttake too much out of that match apart from the result.

Yea, I agree. It was a return to stodgy, edgy and tense play and squeezing teams out (Gatlandball, anyone?!). I was half expecting Jamie Roberts to trot out and smash it up the middle

If we base this on the presumption that the Boks are better than Aus at the moment (which they perhaps have not always been in the past few years when we've been able to beat them) then we'll need to do a lot more in the Boks game than we did in the Aus game. I'm hoping we can be more competitive in the contact area and rucks than Scotland were but we also need a bit of invention (like Scotland did) to get points on the board. I just hope that the team picked, and the gameplan chosen, is one of variation where we don't just do the same thing over and over and hope it eventually works or tires the opposition out! We need some sneaky lineout moves (like Scotland), dinks over the top, grubbers through, kicks to the wings, etc. The Boks will just soak up the 'drift attack' all day if we don't vary things.

The Springbok team to face Wales in Cardiff (in order of name, surname, Test caps, Test points):
15. Willie le Roux (52, 60 – 12 tries)
14. Sbu Nkosi (6, 20 - 4t)
13. Jesse Kriel (39, 55 – 11t)
12. Damian de Allende (36, 20 – 4t)
11. Aphiwe Dyantyi (12, 30 – 6t)
10. Handré Pollard (38, 336 – 4t, 59c, 63p, 3d)
9. Embrose Papier (6, 0)
8 Duane Vermeulen (45, 15 – 3t)
7. Pieter-Steph du Toit (45, 20 – 4t)
6. Siya Kolisi (captain, 40, 25 – 5t)
5. Franco Mostert (28, 5 – 1t)
4. RG Snyman (11, 0)
3. Frans Malherbe (28, 0)
2. Malcolm Marx (23, 20 – 4t)
1. Steven Kitshoff (36, 5 – 1t)
Replacements:
16. Bongi Mbonambi (25, 15 – 3t)
17. Thomas du Toit (8, 0)
18. Vincent Koch (12, 0)
19. Eben Etzebeth (74, 15 – 3t)
20. Francois Louw (64, 45 – 9t)
21. Ivan van Zyl (5, 0)
22. Elton Jantjies (32, 226 – 2t, 42c, 44p)
23. Cheslin Kolbe (6, 10 – 2t)

http://www.sarugby.co.za/article.aspx?category=sarugby/springboks&id=4431724

At least Rassie is keeping the continuity.

What do you reckon then, Biltong? Will you be ending the tour with a win?

I can only hope, we have played terrible rugby against Wales the last number of years.

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

That was a dire match, can'ttake too much out of that match apart from the result.

Maybe for a neutral. It was a very hard fought test match, and in test match rugby its only the result that matters.

Are you going to claim moral victory by scoring more tries but still losing by a point ?

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

That was a dire match, can'ttake too much out of that match apart from the result.

Maybe for a neutral. It was a very hard fought test match, and in test match rugby its only the result that matters.

Are you going to claim moral victory by scoring more tries but still losing by a point ?  

For me when it comes to the Springboks the result is only half the equation. I have seen the Springboks lose to the Lions scoring three tries to nil, I have seen the Boks beat New Zealand scoring less tries.

It is the control, the intensity, the execution that is important for me.

Tight fought test matches are brilliant, this past weekend the Ireland vs All Blacks was an enthralling contest.

Can't say that about Wales vs Australia, it was nowhere near the quality of Ireland vs All Blacks.

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

Biltong wrote:

munkian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I guess it's a strong team, but for some reason it doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.  

It beat Australia

That was a dire match, can'ttake too much out of that match apart from the result.

Maybe for a neutral. It was a very hard fought test match, and in test match rugby its only the result that matters.

Are you going to claim moral victory by scoring more tries but still losing by a point ?  

For me when it comes to the Springboks the result is only half the equation. I have seen the Springboks lose to the Lions scoring three tries to nil, I have seen the Boks beat New Zealand scoring less tries.

It is the control, the intensity, the execution that is important for me.

Tight fought test matches are brilliant, this past weekend the Ireland vs All Blacks was an enthralling contest.

Can't say that about Wales vs Australia, it was nowhere near the quality of Ireland vs All Blacks.

Each to their own, it was much better than Eng v SA though.

England SA was very frustrating to watch.