SIX NATIONS OPENING MATCH - France vs Wales Stade de France - 1st February 2019

First topic message reminder :

France: Maxime Medard; Damian Penaud, Wesley Fofana, Romain Ntamack, Yohann Huget; Camille Lopez, Morgan Parra; Jefferson Poirot, Guilhem Guirado, Uini Atonio; Sébastien Vahaamahina, Paul Willemse, Wenceslas Lauret, Arthur Itturia, Louis Picamoles.

Reps: Julien Marchand, Dany Priso, Demba Bamba, Felix Lambey, Gregory Alldritt, Baptiste Serin, Gael Fickou, Geoffrey Doumayrou.



Wales: Liam Williams; George North, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Josh Adams; Gareth Anscombe, Tomos Williams; Rob Evans, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Adam Beard, Alun Wyn Jones; Josh Navidi, Justin Tipuric, Ross Moriarty.

Reps: Elliot Dee, Wyn Jones, Samson Lee, Cory Hill, Aaron Wainwright, Gareth Davies, Dan Biggar, Owen Watkin.

Big French team and some really good backs this year, but they probably don’t have much direction or leadership as per usual. Having said that I think we’ll struggle if it becomes the usual war of attrition.

mikey_dragon wrote:Big French team and some really good backs this year, but they probably don’t have much direction or leadership as per usual. Having said that I think we’ll struggle if it becomes the usual war of attrition.

I don’t think coach Brunel lacks direction

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Big French team and some really good backs this year, but they probably don’t have much direction or leadership as per usual. Having said that I think we’ll struggle if it becomes the usual war of attrition.

I don’t think coach Brunel lacks direction

Of course, which is why France beat Fiji back in the autumn

Wayne Barnes is the Ref once again.

mikey_dragon wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Big French team and some really good backs this year, but they probably don’t have much direction or leadership as per usual. Having said that I think we’ll struggle if it becomes the usual war of attrition.

I don’t think coach Brunel lacks direction

Of course, which is why France beat Fiji back in the autumn

I dont think you should blame the coach for that.

So now the squad is out what do we think the team for France will be?

Evans Owens lee
AWJ Beard
Tips Nalvidi Wainwright
Davies Anscombe
Williams Davies
Adams Williams north

maestegmafia wrote:So now the squad is out what do we think the team for France will be?

Evans Owens lee
AWJ Beard
Tips Nalvidi Wainwright
Davies Anscombe
Williams Davies
Adams Williams north

I wouldn't start Beard over Hill, is he even match fit ?

Is that Tips 7 Navidi 8 Wainwright 6 ?

munkian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So now the squad is out what do we think the team for France will be?

Evans Owens lee
AWJ Beard
Tips Nalvidi Wainwright
Davies Anscombe
Williams Davies
Adams Williams north

I wouldn't start Beard over Hill, is he even match fit ?

Is that Tips 7 Navidi 8 Wainwright 6 ?

Hill has been in good form you’re right I don’t mind either way

Yes you are right about the backrow

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So now the squad is out what do we think the team for France will be?

Evans Owens lee
AWJ Beard
Tips Nalvidi Wainwright
Davies Anscombe
Williams Davies
Adams Williams north

I wouldn't start Beard over Hill, is he even match fit ?

Is that Tips 7 Navidi 8 Wainwright 6 ?

Hill has been in good form you’re right I don’t mind either way

Yes you are right about the backrow

Ok so I've just realised I read Beard as Ball...

I'd be happy with Beard or Hill starting. Hopefully Charteris has been giving Beard tips on negating the French driving maul.

munkian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

munkian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:So now the squad is out what do we think the team for France will be?

Evans Owens lee
AWJ Beard
Tips Nalvidi Wainwright
Davies Anscombe
Williams Davies
Adams Williams north

I wouldn't start Beard over Hill, is he even match fit ?

Is that Tips 7 Navidi 8 Wainwright 6 ?

Hill has been in good form you’re right I don’t mind either way

Yes you are right about the backrow

Ok so I've just realised I read Beard as Ball...

I'd be happy with Beard or Hill starting. Hopefully Charteris has been giving Beard tips on negating the French driving maul.

I thought Charteris was superb at the Weekend

I think the likes of Charteris and Roberts, Bradley, even Priestland, won't ever get selected in the squad unless there is a plethora of injuries but are there in the background as call ups if and when necessary. They are long in the tooth known quantities who can be parachuted in to do a job if required but aren't part of the future so have been put out to grass.

Evans Owens Francis
AWJ Hill
Wainwright, Tipuric, Morirarty
Garth, Anscombe
North
Parkes, JD2
Adams
Williams

Bench
? Dee, Lee
Beard
Navidi
Tomos
Scott
Biggar

Pie wrote:Evans Owens Francis
AWJ Hill
Wainwright, Tipuric, Morirarty
Garth, Anscombe
North
Parkes, JD2
Adams
Williams

Bench
? Dee, Lee
Beard
Navidi
Tomos
Scott
Biggar

Wyn Jones would be bench loose head prop.

After watching the inter regional matches of Christmas and new year I rate Scott Williams higher than Parkes at inside centre on current form. He put in some wonderful chips and passes created a lot and was often the man giving the try creating pass or kick. He works well with JD2 as well

Josh Adams May not be fit for the opener so I would be keen to see Jonah Holmes got a game. Hallam Amos would be the other obvious choice

maestegmafia wrote:

Pie wrote:Evans Owens Francis
AWJ Hill
Wainwright, Tipuric, Morirarty
Garth, Anscombe
North
Parkes, JD2
Adams
Williams

Bench
? Dee, Lee
Beard
Navidi
Tomos
Scott
Biggar

Wyn Jones would be bench loose head prop.

After watching the inter regional matches of Christmas and new year I rate Scott Williams higher than Parkes at inside centre on current form. He put in some wonderful chips and passes created a lot and was often the man giving the try creating pass or kick. He works well with JD2 as well

If Scott Williams has started passing, that's got to be a good thing.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

Pie wrote:Evans Owens Francis
AWJ Hill
Wainwright, Tipuric, Morirarty
Garth, Anscombe
North
Parkes, JD2
Adams
Williams

Bench
? Dee, Lee
Beard
Navidi
Tomos
Scott
Biggar

Wyn Jones would be bench loose head prop.

After watching the inter regional matches of Christmas and new year I rate Scott Williams higher than Parkes at inside centre on current form. He put in some wonderful chips and passes created a lot and was often the man giving the try creating pass or kick. He works well with JD2 as well

If Scott Williams has started passing, that's got to be a good thing.

If he gets the ball. Second half last week it was kicked away at ten 90% of the time

I doubt many people though Scott moving to the Ospreys would work out the way it has. Even with the injury Scott suffered, Parkes' drop in form has really opened the door for him. I think Gatland will do everything he can to allow Parkes to keep the shirt for the RWC, but he's starting games at 12 as first choice in the Pro14. That gives him a shot.

Still feel he's underrated by many, particularly outside Wales. I honestly don't think there's much between him and JD2. Just opportunities and injuries have resulted in Scott not fulfilling as much of his potential.

I'd start him at 12 and take a look at Watkin against Italy. I think the more likely option is Scott comes in against Italy as well.

I think Scott Williams has shown more creativity than Parkes and should start against France in Paris.

Clermont smashed the dragons last night, despite that good performance by the Aaron Wainwright and Hallam Amos the only players on the pitch selected for this years six nations match in Paris

From what I can read we didn’t suffer any further injuries to key players this weekend.

WHY ARE YOU SUDDENLY SHOUTING IN THE THREAD TITLE

munkian wrote:Halfpenny looks to be out for France at least so back three is up for grabs.

I'd question North being picked - he's a dirty niggly  knobber at the moment and the French love a wind up.

Is that technically a thing?

Im not super confident we will win this simply because I have spent years watching Wales start slowly and then play catch up and France, after being dire, have leveled out and are on the rise. No Half is a worry as his boot is so valuable and for that reason I favor Biggar to start Wales off. Also I think back row is an issue. Despite our much flouted strength in depth its not really clear who should be starting in any of the 6-8 berths.

Parkes or SW is another debate and I favor SW. I think Parkes rep of 'not making mistakes' is being found out. I'd like to see Holmes, North and Liam assuming Adams still crocked. Evans Owens and Lee for me with AWJ and Beard if fit, Cory otherwise. Probably Wainwright Tips and Moriarty.

A super close game and perhaps we will sneak it.

Pie I’m inclined to agree with you team wise.

Anscombe has been kicking well from the T. Both he and Biggar in great form at the moment but personally I would prefer Anscombe at ten. I think we need to take any chances we get and he creates more than Biggar

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46973900

Halfpenny out and Liam Williams a doubt. Who comes in at full back if that's the case? Amos? Holmes? Most obvious choice is Anscombe at 15 with Biggar at 10, but Gatland might give Anscombe all the minutes he can at 10, so who knows.

miaow wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/46973900

Halfpenny out and Liam Williams a doubt. Who comes in at full back if that's the case? Amos? Holmes? Most obvious choice is Anscombe at 15 with Biggar at 10, but Gatland might give Anscombe all the minutes he can at 10, so who knows.

I can see Tyler Morgan getting a call up.

Scott Williams, Adam Beard, Moriarty, Patchell, and Gareth Davies also look to be out for the first game. Then obviously Faletau as well. Jake Ball released to play for the Scarlets this weekend - depending on how long Beard's out for, might come back for the Italy game.

Good test of Wales' strength in depth here. Look light in the centres so Tyler Morgan's a definite possibility, but only just coming back from injury himself?

miaow wrote:Scott Williams, Adam Beard, Moriarty, Patchell, and Gareth Davies also look to be out for the first game. Then obviously Faletau as well. Jake Ball released to play for the Scarlets this weekend - depending on how long Beard's out for, might come back for the Italy game.

Good test of Wales' strength in depth here. Look light in the centres so Tyler Morgan's a definite possibility, but only just coming back from injury himself?

He is yup, playing against Munster this weekend. I don't think we have many other options ?

Millard, called up to the u20s, could make the move up, but obviously not ideal. Parkes, Watkin, JD2. Scott Williams presumably not far away. Perhaps it's not that bad - but there is a lack of options behind the current squad members. The back 3 is perhaps more of a worry - North will be the only first choice, with an out of form Steff Evans (who hasn't acclimatised to test rugby yet) the other obvious pick on the wing. I'd be a lot happier if Josh Adams was able to come in at 15 or even on the wing. Think he's looked really solid and also, at times, threatening with ball in hand. I like Amos, but I don't think he's ever really looked 'solid' at test level - not quite quick enough for wing, not quite strong enough for 15, and obviously height is becoming more and more important in those positions with the aerial game. Holmes still very inexperienced.

France play so 'aimlessly' by design, I'd quite like to see North, Adams, and Evans. Think that has the mix of solidity and experience, with Evans' ability to go jinking round some big, heavy French players, which is where he shines.

The sad thing is I think we're more likely to see Anscombe or perhaps even Patchell at 15 for the kicking game. That might be another reason why Adams or Amos makes it onto the wing ahead of Evans.

miaow wrote:Millard, called up to the u20s, could make the move up, but obviously not ideal. Parkes, Watkin, JD2. Scott Williams presumably not far away. Perhaps it's not that bad - but there is a lack of options behind the current squad members. The back 3 is perhaps more of a worry - North will be the only first choice, with an out of form Steff Evans (who hasn't acclimatised to test rugby yet) the other obvious pick on the wing. I'd be a lot happier if Josh Adams was able to come in at 15 or even on the wing. Think he's looked really solid and also, at times, threatening with ball in hand. I like Amos, but I don't think he's ever really looked 'solid' at test level - not quite quick enough for wing, not quite strong enough for 15, and obviously height is becoming more and more important in those positions with the aerial game. Holmes still very inexperienced.

France play so 'aimlessly' by design, I'd quite like to see North, Adams, and Evans. Think that has the mix of solidity and experience, with Evans' ability to go jinking round some big, heavy French players, which is where he shines.

The sad thing is I think we're more likely to see Anscombe or perhaps even Patchell at 15 for the kicking game. That might be another reason why Adams or Amos makes it onto the wing ahead of Evans.

I don't think either of the highlighted points are true to be fair. I've never seen him 'bullied' and he has a serious hand off.

I distinctly remember him getting skinned and easily brushed off by an All Blacks winger - Naholo maybe? Obviously that's the very highest level you can get, but it's still important. Same reason why Patchell isn't a 15 - didn't have the pace to deal with the All Blacks when he came in at short notice in 2016. Looked way out of his depth, he's definitely a 10. But Amos does lack pace for a modern test winger - so does Steff Evans. It's also true they're both on the small side and struggle when up against more powerful teams. Don't think that's that contentious.

miaow wrote:I distinctly remember him getting skinned and easily brushed off by an All Blacks winger - Naholo maybe? Obviously that's the very highest level you can get, but it's still important. Same reason why Patchell isn't a 15 - didn't have the pace to deal with the All Blacks when he came in at short notice in 2016. Looked way out of his depth, he's definitely a 10. But Amos does lack pace for a modern test winger - so does Steff Evans. It's also true they're both on the small side and struggle when up against more powerful teams. Don't think that's that contentious.

Both bigger than Halfpenny though ?

I cannot remember ever seeing Josh Adams play 15 for Worcester. Should Liam Williams be unfit would Anscombe be the most experienced squad member at 15?

It was Barrett: https://youtu.be/9-XoEF67p5k?t=91

But this wasn't the one I was thinking of. I'm sure there was a try at the MS where he's playing on the right wing and gets done.

munkian wrote:

miaow wrote:I distinctly remember him getting skinned and easily brushed off by an All Blacks winger - Naholo maybe? Obviously that's the very highest level you can get, but it's still important. Same reason why Patchell isn't a 15 - didn't have the pace to deal with the All Blacks when he came in at short notice in 2016. Looked way out of his depth, he's definitely a 10. But Amos does lack pace for a modern test winger - so does Steff Evans. It's also true they're both on the small side and struggle when up against more powerful teams. Don't think that's that contentious.

Both bigger than Halfpenny though ?

This is true in terms of height. But 1/2P's a lot stockier and stronger than both and obviously puts his body on the line (why he's having concussion problems now). Also mitigates that by having incredible positioning. But yeah, I agree, the way rugby has gone being small is now generally a disadvantage unless you're very, very quick and also play in a team that will attack more than you defend. Which not many teams do anymore - even with the ball, they tend to play defensively etc.

miaow wrote:

munkian wrote:

miaow wrote:I distinctly remember him getting skinned and easily brushed off by an All Blacks winger - Naholo maybe? Obviously that's the very highest level you can get, but it's still important. Same reason why Patchell isn't a 15 - didn't have the pace to deal with the All Blacks when he came in at short notice in 2016. Looked way out of his depth, he's definitely a 10. But Amos does lack pace for a modern test winger - so does Steff Evans. It's also true they're both on the small side and struggle when up against more powerful teams. Don't think that's that contentious.

Both bigger than Halfpenny though ?

This is true in terms of height. But 1/2P's a lot stockier and stronger than both and obviously puts his body on the line (why he's having concussion problems now). Also mitigates that by having incredible positioning. But yeah, I agree, the way rugby has gone being small is now generally a disadvantage unless you're very, very quick and also play in a team that will attack more than you defend. Which not many teams do anymore - even with the ball, they tend to play defensively etc.

Amos is at least 10kg heavier than Halfpenny.

He's not weak either, ask Piernaar https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI3Qr-tWKFU

Maybe it wasn't against NZ after all. I've found this and there are a few obvious defensive brush offs on Amos the lead to tries. But Steff Evans looking more culpable in the 'useless defending' stakes here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-IgVIQCO3g

Great hand-off, fair play. But also, a hand off isn't a great indicator of all round strength - I'm talking about defensively here, at test level, hence providing the examples I did.

James Hook had a monster hand-off as well. Absolutely useless defensively as a 15: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVsYgA5XrEY

Do we think Thomassinni Youngerola might make the match day squad at all?

If Moriarty's out, then it's likely going to be:

6. Wainwright 8. Navidi 7. Tipuric (vice captain)

That leaves Turnbull or Young for the bench. I'd say it's a 50:50 between the two - depends if Cory Hill is on the bench as #19 or, if Beard and Ball are out, Hill probably starts, with Seb Davies on the bench. More likely to see Turnbull in that instance I'd suggest?

I think Moriarty might be rushed back for this one though. Italy is where to look out for the likes of Watkin and Yong.

SW out?....Time to call up big Gav

Is this match not a bit of a dead rubber? Two non-contenders?

Collapse2005 wrote:Is this match not a bit of a dead rubber? Two non-contenders?

If Scotland get a token thread then so do we

haha

So were now looking at Evans Owens Francis/Lee, Beard AWJ, Wainwright, Tipuric Moriarty, Tomos, Anscombe, Amos, Parkes JD2, North, Liam

Pie wrote:So were now looking at Evans Owens Francis/Lee, Beard AWJ, Wainwright, Tipuric Moriarty, Tomos, Anscombe, Amos, Parkes JD2, North, Liam

Personally I wouldn't rush Moriarty back and have Navidi at 8 plus Hill will start over Beard but we'll see.

Amos more likely to be bench cover for wing/fb ?

Liam Williams, Moriarty, and Beard all injury doubts Pie.

Pie wrote:SW out?....Time to call up big Gav

Didn’t think SW would make the match day squad over Watkin anyway. Not so sure about Gav, however i think most folk around here would be happy if;

1. Rhys Webb was to get a recall.
2. A certain someone around here stopped talking utter BS whilst calling it ‘good debate.’

munkian wrote:

Pie wrote:So were now looking at Evans Owens Francis/Lee, Beard AWJ, Wainwright, Tipuric Moriarty, Tomos, Anscombe, Amos, Parkes JD2, North, Liam

Personally I wouldn't rush Moriarty back and have Navidi at 8 plus Hill will start over Beard but we'll see.

Amos more likely to be bench cover for wing/fb ?

It’s beginning to look grim but we do have options. Gats can either select the Blues pair as halfbacks, or put Anscombe to 15 with Biggar starting at 10. I think his focus will be on size for this match, which would mean he’s sweating on Beard and Ball, and will start with Francis. Maybe we could see Hill at 6 too?

I would be happy to see Jonah Holmes at 15 for the first game. He is the form fullback in the squad at the moment.