Italy vs Wales in Rome match 2

First topic message reminder :


Wales:

15 Liam Williams, 14 Jonah Holmes, 13 Jonathan Davies (c), 12 Owen Watkin, 11 Josh Adams, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Aled Davies, 8 Josh Navidi, 7 Thomas Young, 6 Aaron Wainwright, 5 Adam Beard, 4 Jake Ball, 3 Samson Lee, 2 Elliot Dee, 1 Nicky Smith

Replacements: 16 Ryan Elias, 17 Wyn Jones, 18 Dillon Lewis, 19 Alun Wyn Jones, 20 Ross Moriarty, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Gareth Anscombe, 23 Hallam Amos


Italy:

15 Jayden Hayward, 14 Edoardo Padovani, 13 Michele Campagnaro, 12 Luca Morisi, 11 Angelo Esposito, 10 Tommaso Allan, 9 Guglielmo Palazzani, 8 Sergio Parisse (c), 7 Abraham Steyn, 6 Sebastian Negri, 5 Dean Budd, 4 David Sisi, 3 Simone Ferrari, 2 Leonardo Ghiraldini, 1 Nicola Quaglio


Replacements: 16 Luca Bigi, 17 Cherif Traore’, 18 Tiziano Pasquali, 19 Federico Ruzza, 20 Marco Barbini, 21 Edoardo Gori, 22 Ian McKinley, 23 Tommaso Benvenuti



Date: Saturday, February 9

Venue: Stadio Olimpico, Rome
Kick-off: 17:45 local (16:45 GMT)
Referee: Mathieu Raynal (France)
Assistant referees: Wayne Barnes (England), Shuhei Kubo (Japan)
TMO: David Grashoff (England)

Wales going to have to go some to score 4 tries here. Need to concentrate on winning the game first.

Should be a good second half now Italy have got themselves into the game

It's still a long, long way from happening - but if you wanted a year where the 3 Grand Slam bonus points could decide a Championship, this could be it.

England already have the try bonus point against Ireland away, with 3 home games to go. Wales got no bonus point against France and have no apparent interest in one this week.

If this game finishes like this, England get 3 home try bonus point wins, Wales beat England at home by less than 7 and then beat Scotland and Ireland without taking the bonus point, we'll have England on 21 points and Wales on 20+3 to win the Championship and Grand Slam.

None of those individual results can be deemed unlikely, but the chances of all of them happening exactly like that makes this remote. Still, one for the historians if it comes to pass.

Get Gareth Davies on early. Not been impressed with Aled Davies at 9.

Absolutely gash.

Surely he can kick this one...

Now it is getting interesting!

Very nice from LW ...

The Oracle wrote:Get Gareth Davies on early. Not been impressed with Aled Davies at 9.

Makes you wonder why Gatland never takes me seriously? Whenever the ball is in the ruck he really looks as if he doesn’t know what to do with it, plus his kicking and decision-making is very poor. Biggar still very good on the other hand.

Hopefully we score a try soon and then gets the subs on.

The Oracle wrote:Get Gareth Davies on early. Not been impressed with Aled Davies at 9.

He has been a major speed bump in any attacking play. Ponderous in both the ruck and maul. That basketball pass to Holmes was another poor decision.

Biggar having a shocker after I bigged him up on the other thread!

Welsh players don't look confident

knock on

Jiffy would be doing his nut in on BBC

Commentator is wrong, can’t knee it forwards after losing control any more than you can from a hand.

That looked like a fair gather by Davies. I agree with Flatman, off the knee, into his hands. Never touched the ground.

Scottrf wrote:Commentator is wrong, can’t knee it forwards after losing control any more than you can from a hand.

See I disagree. If the ball goes from hand to knee to hand without being grounded it's not a knock on. I'm not sure it did hit the ground.

Wales all over this one. This could become a 40 pointer.

robbo277 wrote:That looked like a fair gather by Davies. I agree with Flatman, off the knee, into his hands. Never touched the ground.

JD2 looked as if he thought he had knocked it on.

With that Watkins try it is game over with Wales still having time for 2 more.

Yeah you’re right Robbo, if it didn’t touch the ground. Not sure how well I was paying attention, just used to people thinking it’s not a knock on after touching the legs and going forwards.

LondonTiger wrote:

robbo277 wrote:That looked like a fair gather by Davies. I agree with Flatman, off the knee, into his hands. Never touched the ground.

JD2 looked as if he thought he had knocked it on.

With that Watkins try it is game over with Wales still having time for 2 more.

Not only time, but also enough of a cushion that they can chance their arm a bit. At 16 points up, they can gamble.

This point of the game is why I believe Wales should go for touch not posts from minute 1. There was never any doubt in my mind Wales would win but they need the try bonus point.

We might get another try, but I think 4 is beyond us today.

Scottrf wrote:Yeah you’re right Robbo, if it didn’t touch the ground. Not sure how well I was paying attention, just used to people thinking it’s not a knock on after touching the legs and going forwards.

Ah okay. Well it looked okay to me, but then at the cricket they spend ages watching replays sometimes trying to work out if the ball hit the ground, and that's just balls, hands and the ground, not 3 big bodies all over the ball making a mess of things.

Lovely try but why leave this intensity until the last 5 every game?

Scottrf wrote:This point of the game is why I believe Wales should go for touch not posts from minute 1. There was never any doubt in my mind Wales would win but they need the try bonus point.

If they'd gambled those 4 penalties to the corner and got 2 tries and 1 conversion, they'd be on 26 points still but with the try bonus point already done.

You have to back yourself to be clinical against Italy.

If Wales beat England and lose to Ireland or Scotland, bonus points could be the difference.

Italy are definitely improving, but not quite there yet.

Wales not playing particularly well, but still winning. They may regret the BP though at the end of the Champs

Worst game of sho*ite I’ve seen in a long time.

Decent Italian kicker and it might've been 22-26. Food for thought.

That is the most a win has ever felt like a loss

And now we go into the England game off the back of two gash performances. Can’t see us challenging for the title this year. The 3 hardest games to come, yet we struggled with arguably the two easiest!

EnglishReign wrote:Decent Italian kicker and it might've been 22-26. Food for thought.

Ifs and buts. Similarly, Wales could have had 4 tries had them been allowed. But whatever!

Scottrf wrote:This point of the game is why I believe Wales should go for touch not posts from minute 1. There was never any doubt in my mind Wales would win but they need the try bonus point.

No point if the line out doesn’t work

The Oracle wrote:And now we go into the England game off the back of two gash performances. Can’t see us challenging for the title this year. The 3 hardest games to come, yet we struggled with arguably the two easiest!

2 wins nonetheless, who knows what will happen tomorrow.

Job done for Wales. Not inspiring stuff but they were never in danger. Italy pose no real threat even against a team playing badly. Is it a lost point if you don't get the bonus against Italy? Great shame for the tournament.

Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

2 tries  apiece not exactualy a master class from Wales, but they got the win in the end. So well done Wales for getting the win.

I think Italy played really well to contain Wales, is does make me think that Gatland took this game for granted and it nearly cost him the game.

But he ( Gatland) took a gamble and it paid off  so well done again Wales for the win.

The Oracle wrote:And now we go into the England game off the back of two gash performances. Can’t see us challenging for the title this year. The 3 hardest games to come, yet we struggled with arguably the two easiest!

Don't underestimate your away win in Paris. This France team will win more games than you think.

I personally don’t think it’s job done. I wouldn’t take a non-bonus point win away from home against Italy if offered it.

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Exactly and winning is a habit!

You Welsh fans are never happy!

BigGee wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Exactly and winning is a habit!

You Welsh fans are never happy!

A game and a half ago they were 16 points down. Now they're played two, won two - away from home! Can't do much better.

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Last team to win away games in Weeks 1 and 2 was England in 2016 and ended up with a Grand Slam.

We weren't convincing against Scotland and didn't take off against Italy until a second half Jonathan Joseph hattrick - turning an 9-11 half time lead into a 9-40 win. Should also say that England were full strength that day.

Wales will be up for a home game against England, and if they win that then their belief will be sky high going into the last 2 gamedays.

robbo277 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Last team to win away games in Weeks 1 and 2 was England in 2016 and ended up with a Grand Slam.

We weren't convincing against Scotland and didn't take off against Italy until a second half Jonathan Joseph hattrick - turning an 9-11 half time lead into a 9-40 win. Should also say that England were full strength that day.

Wales will be up for a home game against England, and if they win that then their belief will be sky high going into the last 2 gamedays.

Alright, that's enough. Now you're scaring me!

I would have thought Wales, if they had played there first team players they would have won with 4 tries. 

But they did not play there first team players today from the off i mean. So a win but no bonus point win.

I think what robbo is trying to say is, in reality, you'll probably lose the last 3 games

EnglishReign wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Last team to win away games in Weeks 1 and 2 was England in 2016 and ended up with a Grand Slam.

We weren't convincing against Scotland and didn't take off against Italy until a second half Jonathan Joseph hattrick - turning an 9-11 half time lead into a 9-40 win. Should also say that England were full strength that day.

Wales will be up for a home game against England, and if they win that then their belief will be sky high going into the last 2 gamedays.

Alright, that's enough. Now you're scaring me!

The three remaining games are definitely going to be tough...

Kind of hoping like most Welshman that the French roughen up the boys in white tomorrow to make the task a bit easier.

maestegmafia wrote:

EnglishReign wrote:

robbo277 wrote:

LondonTiger wrote:Two away wins never to be sniffed at.

Last team to win away games in Weeks 1 and 2 was England in 2016 and ended up with a Grand Slam.

We weren't convincing against Scotland and didn't take off against Italy until a second half Jonathan Joseph hattrick - turning an 9-11 half time lead into a 9-40 win. Should also say that England were full strength that day.

Wales will be up for a home game against England, and if they win that then their belief will be sky high going into the last 2 gamedays.

Alright, that's enough. Now you're scaring me!

The three remaining games are definitely going to be tough...

Kind of hoping like most Welshman that the French roughen up the boys in white tomorrow to make the task a bit easier.

Typical Welsh man always hoping some one will help you out.

mikey_dragon wrote:Too many changes for me, I think some of them are unnecessary at this stage; however I stil expect a bonus point win. Also expecting Italy to take advantage of slow players like Aled Davies and engage in some boring and cynical play.

Well I was right about all this, except for the bonus point win of course . A load of fr*kin* s**t! Italy played negative and our 9 just played right into their hands - for this player to have international caps is a joke. Why do we always get TMO-happy refs? They ALWAYS rule out legit tries. This one did effect the score and flow of the game.

Scottrf wrote:Kicking is pointless imo. Chase the bonus point from the start.

Incredible decision to go for the kick when 9-0 up, Italy camped on their line for 2 minutes, with a penalty. As it proved, that hard worn lead was whittled away easily just before half-time and suddenly it became an arm wrestle.

Wales' consistent lack of clinicality - should have scored in that phase play prior to the penalty anyway - is a huge issue. It's not just a performance issue, it's also a leadership/decision making issue. Never looked like scoring with Aled feeding the backline. Never looked like breaking the line bar Jonah Holmes finding an inside shoulder in that move. And to then go for the points instead - shocking.

It's up there with Ireland's decision last week to go for the 3 points against England when 10-17 down but even more inexcusable. It's not about 'chasing' bonus points, it's about getting used to winning games by scoring tries. As ever, if Wales concede 2+ tries, or 20 points, they're likely to lose. Even against poor teams.

Mitigating circumstances considering the lineup and you could see how clunky things were. But this poor decision making is not a new thing.

Mikey, are you saying the ref was against you today.

maestegmafia wrote:That is the most a win has ever felt like a loss

Not sure about that. The games against Tonga, Japan, Georgia etc. have been dog do. Even previous games against Italy in the 6Ns have felt worse, particularly when playing the 1st Welsh team. This, whilst poor, never felt in doubt - just sloppy and blunt in attack.