Silly Season Transfer Rumours 19/20

New year, new thread, new scuttlebutt, rumour and misdirection.

Attwood has agreed a return to Bristol for next season.

Will Daly be Fb at Saracens with Goode the god he is there?

Wont do England good to have him move and go back to 13..

Rumour is he wants the 13 shirt and he'd get that at Sarries you'd assume. Fullback and back three generally is pretty congested at Sarries with Alex Goode, Lewington and Liam Williams.

And Maitland, unless he is leaving.

But yeah, the reports indicate he wants to be playing 13 - if so it means that England need to look for another FB after the WC perhaps.

Whos potentially on the horizon regarding Full backs and England?

Watson?
Brown - Imagine he'll be gone after the WC
Daly - Will he continue at FB for England if hes playing club rugby at 13?
Johnny May - Surely just keep him as one of the best wings in the world.

Any others not in the squad yet coming through..?

England U20 Fb is Josh Hodge a falcon. But he's miles away from the Falcons team yet alone anything else.

I am really sceptical about how Watson will be once he returns from injury. Given that he's ruptured his Achilles twice, I just can't see him being the same player he once was. I really hope I am wrong!

Not sure if this was mentioned on the last thread, but just read about Brodie Retallick to Sale on £1m per season.  Owen Franks to Northampton or Toulon.

https://www.rugbypass.com/news/all-black-lock-retallick-set-to-become-one-of-worlds-highest-paid-players-as-cashed-up-premiership-club-goes-all-in?fbclid=IwAR2uiP15jPP5BMH9WiNyuFnguTgRhLs1BEH5J5VHtMDw8-jkQgZGVN1BhK4

Franks to Northampton is a done deal, I think. 

If Sale lands Retallick, that would be enormous.

I'd heard that Owen Franks wanted to stay in Christchurch and keep helping in the family gym in preparation for moving into S&C after rugby. The Franks brothers are meant to be very close so would make sense if they ended up in the same place if he did move though.

It would be a big coup for Saints. They are meant to be two of the most professional players around with regard to training standards and fitness.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whos potentially on the horizon regarding Full backs and England?

Watson?
Brown - Imagine he'll be gone after the WC
Daly - Will he continue at FB for England if hes playing club rugby at 13?
Johnny May - Surely just keep him as one of the best wings in the world.

Any others not in the squad yet coming through..?

England U20 Fb is Josh Hodge a falcon. But he's miles away from the Falcons team yet alone anything else.

Aaron Morris at Quins? I think he was an Eng u20 fb and hes ex Sarries, still not very good mind but he could get better.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whos potentially on the horizon regarding Full backs and England?

Watson?
Brown - Imagine he'll be gone after the WC
Daly - Will he continue at FB for England if hes playing club rugby at 13?
Johnny May - Surely just keep him as one of the best wings in the world.

Any others not in the squad yet coming through..?

England U20 Fb is Josh Hodge a falcon. But he's miles away from the Falcons team yet alone anything else.

Wouldn't be surprised if Max Malins settled there. Sarries and England both have plenty of flyhalf options.

Daly has been confirmed by Saracens then as harlequins are outed as having broke the cap last season.

king_carlos wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Whos potentially on the horizon regarding Full backs and England?

Watson?
Brown - Imagine he'll be gone after the WC
Daly - Will he continue at FB for England if hes playing club rugby at 13?
Johnny May - Surely just keep him as one of the best wings in the world.

Any others not in the squad yet coming through..?

England U20 Fb is Josh Hodge a falcon. But he's miles away from the Falcons team yet alone anything else.

Wouldn't be surprised if Max Malins settled there. Sarries and England both have plenty of flyhalf options.

What's happened to Harry malinder?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Daly has been confirmed by Saracens then as harlequins are outed as having broke the cap last season.

Where have you got the Quin's news from?

carpet baboon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Daly has been confirmed by Saracens then as harlequins are outed as having broke the cap last season.

Where have you got the Quin's news from?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47136112

On the Beeb and 'no suggestion that the overrun was deliberate'.

As stated in the article, overruns are factored into the regulations, have happened before and aren't dealt with as breaches. Although they do come with a hefty fine at 50p per £1 overspent.

king_carlos wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:Daly has been confirmed by Saracens then as harlequins are outed as having broke the cap last season.

Where have you got the Quin's news from?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47136112

On the Beeb and 'no suggestion that the overrun was deliberate'.

As stated in the article, overruns are factored into the regulations, have happened before and aren't dealt with as breaches. Although they do come with a hefty fine at 50p per £1 overspent.

Overruns tend to occur normally when academy/development players become part of the first team squad. I think the regulations allow players under a certain age to play a small number of games before they count towards the cap. So given the number of injuries and young lads quickly thrust into the first team as well as the rise of Marcus Smith then it's not a surprise they slipped over.

In regards to the fullback conundrum, how's Ben Loader getting on at LI? He's a big lad with pace.

Forgive my naivety, but how has that quins squad got near the cap? Doesn’t strike me as full big earners!

Retallick not happening.

There seems to be some belief on here that Daly regularly plays 15 for Wasps.

Apart from two starts this season, his last Premiership start at 15 was in 2014. Outside of the 2013-2014 season, he's barely played there.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/player/?PlayGuid=ED181409

Welly wrote: Retallick not happening.

Was it ever I wonder......

Bathite wrote:Forgive my naivety, but how has that quins squad got near the cap? Doesn’t strike me as full big earners!

You don't really need to have loads of big earners. However when you factor in the salaries of guys like Marler, Sinckler, Horwill, Robshaw, Care, and Brown it starts to add up. The likes of Visser, Tapui and the centre that came from Munster who's name escapes me would not be cheap. Then apply a London weighting to salaries.

Those 9 players could easily take out the two marquee spots and over £2m of the cap. Leaving less than £5m for the other 40 or so squad members.

Yeah, I am a bit surprised that Quins spend up to the salary cap.
Cant imagine Catrakilis came cheap either.....

More of Mickey take that it's happily pointed out they have breached whereas bath and Saracens were and perhaps are protected. But that's for another thread.

According to Fissler there's another team being investigated for a breach (that isn't an "overrun") and it's not difficult to guess who it might be...

In Quins case they identified the overrun themselves. Wasps were found to be £40k over for the 16/17 season following the Salary Cap audit - some adjustments in how some costs were assigned were made. As with Quins it was deemed not deliberate.

It should be noted that the 50p per £1 fine only applies to amounts up to £50k, it then switches to a £1 per £1 and finally £3 per £1. I am not sure if there are any other penalties for clubs who are deemed to have deliberately exceeded the cap (and tried to hide it).

In RL Wigan have just been docked points and fined.

Why don't the English go to a soft cap like some of the sports leagues in the US? Spend over the soft cap and you pay a pound for every pound and every year you exceed it, you increase that by 10p. After a decade a 100k player costs 300k. In the NBA, they split the proceeds among the teams beneath the cap.

Hazel Sapling wrote:Why don't the English go to a soft cap like some of the sports leagues in the US? Spend over the soft cap and you pay a pound for every pound and every year you exceed it, you increase that by 10p. After a decade a 100k player costs 300k. In the NBA, they split the proceeds among the teams beneath the cap.

They do not want to encourage any one with a shedload of money going crazy. However with the fine system in place it is not that dissimilar, though I do not know where the money raised from fines goes.

No 7&1/2 wrote:More of  Mickey take that it's happily pointed out they have breached whereas bath and Saracens were and perhaps are protected. But that's for another thread.

Difference being Quin's was an accident and they self declared it.
The other two did it intentionally, tried to hide it, then threatened everyone who dared suggest it should be an open and transparent process.

But yes that's for another thread

I only slipped it in here as I'd seen the Daly news and was being for too lazy to type the thread etc!

Joe Simpson to Glaws then. Will wasps have anyone left?

No 7&1/2 wrote:Joe Simpson to Glaws then. Will wasps have anyone left?

Wonder where Vellacott will go? Unless Glaws are losing someone else, seems pointless him hanging around as 4th choice.

Vellacott to Wasps

BamBam wrote:Vellacott to Wasps

Ah, ok.

Joe Simpson is only 30. Could be a great bit of business for Glaws if they can keep him fit.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

In regards to the fullback conundrum, how's Ben Loader getting on at LI? He's a big lad with pace.

He's doing okay and has scored a few nice tries. Has been overshadowed a little by his schoolmates though with Parton starting the season superbly at FB before doing his ACL and more recently Matt Williams putting in some excellent performances on the wing.

All three have just been handed senior contracts

BamBam wrote:Vellacott to Wasps

That's a good move for Vellacott I think. Robson is a very good scrum half to learn from and he will suit the way Dai Young likes his side to play.

Good to see him stay in the Prem from an England perspective as well. I did wonder whether Edinburgh might have a look at him given he offers something different to Pyrgos, Kennedy and Fowles.

king_carlos wrote:

BamBam wrote:Vellacott to Wasps

That's a good move for Vellacott I think. Robson is a very good scrum half to learn from and he will suit the way Dai Young likes his side to play.

Good to see him stay in the Prem from an England perspective as well. I did wonder whether Edinburgh might have a look at him given he offers something different to Pyrgos, Kennedy and Fowles.

I am not sure that Kennedy and Fowles will be there next year, neither of them seem to be trusted by Cockers. They are still short of a SH though and Vellacott would have been worth a shout. Not to be it seems.

BigGee wrote:

king_carlos wrote:

BamBam wrote:Vellacott to Wasps

That's a good move for Vellacott I think. Robson is a very good scrum half to learn from and he will suit the way Dai Young likes his side to play.

Good to see him stay in the Prem from an England perspective as well. I did wonder whether Edinburgh might have a look at him given he offers something different to Pyrgos, Kennedy and Fowles.

I am not sure that Kennedy and Fowles will be there next year, neither of them seem to be trusted by Cockers. They are still short of a SH though and Vellacott would have been worth a shout. Not to be it seems.

Scott Steele? He has the Ozzy duo of McKibbin and Meehan ahead of him at London Irish, he's known to Cockers, Scotland qualified and wouldn't cost a fortune.

Any idea what's happened to Andrew Simmers? I remember him being selected ahead of Charlie Shiel for Scotland u20s at one point but has disappeared off the SRU radar it seems.

Steele is known to Cockers for sure, but he didn't get within a million miles of any substantial (even LV cup) gametime when he was there. Not sure what the relationship was like. You never know though, 9 is looking pretty crowded at Irish next season, so expect one or two to leave. At the moment he's a pretty firm second choice behind Meehan. Next season another Scottish 9 (albeit Eng U20) Rory Brand has been handed a senior contract and Nick Phipps is coming in.

Probably the end of the line for McKibbin, Steele also going wouldn't be the biggest surprise

Margin_Walker wrote:Steele is known to Cockers for sure, but he didn't get within a million miles of any substantial (even LV cup) gametime when he was there. Not sure what the relationship was like. You never know though, 9 is looking pretty crowded at Irish next season, so expect one or two to leave. At the moment he's a pretty firm second choice behind Meehan. Next season another Scottish 9 (albeit Eng U20) Rory Brand has been handed a senior contract and Nick Phipps is coming in.

Probably the end of the line for McKibbin, Steele also going wouldn't be the biggest surprise

May sound harsh but Steele has been with us for 5 seasons (I think) now and his best season was by far and away his first. He hasn't really progressed and I would be surprised if we kept him on, despite the fact that he seems a very popular member of the squad.

SirBurger wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:Steele is known to Cockers for sure, but he didn't get within a million miles of any substantial (even LV cup) gametime when he was there. Not sure what the relationship was like. You never know though, 9 is looking pretty crowded at Irish next season, so expect one or two to leave. At the moment he's a pretty firm second choice behind Meehan. Next season another Scottish 9 (albeit Eng U20) Rory Brand has been handed a senior contract and Nick Phipps is coming in.

Probably the end of the line for McKibbin, Steele also going wouldn't be the biggest surprise

May sound harsh but Steele has been with us for 5 seasons (I think) now and his best season was by far and away his first. He hasn't really progressed and I would be surprised if we kept him on, despite the fact that he seems a very popular member of the squad.

I agree, he's a decent enough player (and very popular around the place), but If I look at next season I'm not sure how he fits. There's been clear water between him and Meehan this season and Phipps is coming in. Add in Brand for potential and Englefield still in the academy and we've probably got enough there. If we kept him it would only really reduce the opportunities Brand gets and I think he has a higher ceiling

I didn't actually realise Vellacott was Scottish! Think he may well get game time at Wasps with Robson looking like he's in the England picture

Scottish through his mother.

Margin_Walker wrote:

SirBurger wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:Steele is known to Cockers for sure, but he didn't get within a million miles of any substantial (even LV cup) gametime when he was there. Not sure what the relationship was like. You never know though, 9 is looking pretty crowded at Irish next season, so expect one or two to leave. At the moment he's a pretty firm second choice behind Meehan. Next season another Scottish 9 (albeit Eng U20) Rory Brand has been handed a senior contract and Nick Phipps is coming in.

Probably the end of the line for McKibbin, Steele also going wouldn't be the biggest surprise

May sound harsh but Steele has been with us for 5 seasons (I think) now and his best season was by far and away his first. He hasn't really progressed and I would be surprised if we kept him on, despite the fact that he seems a very popular member of the squad.

I agree, he's a decent enough player (and very popular around the place), but If I look at next season I'm not sure how he fits. There's been clear water between him and Meehan this season and Phipps is coming in. Add in Brand for potential and Englefield still in the academy and we've probably got enough there. If we kept him it would only really reduce the opportunities Brand gets and I think he has a higher ceiling

Yes, Meehan has been great this season and has really pushed on. I thought his performance against Jersey was one of the best scrum half performances I have seen since the days of Dodge. Phipps will be on a decent packet and so we should be looking to get our money's worth and so I think we can afford to go with those two with Brand backing them up, especially as he now has a senior contract. I therefore think we can afford to let Steele and McKibbin go.

Margin_Walker wrote:Steele is known to Cockers for sure, but he didn't get within a million miles of any substantial (even LV cup) gametime when he was there. Not sure what the relationship was like. You never know though, 9 is looking pretty crowded at Irish next season, so expect one or two to leave. At the moment he's a pretty firm second choice behind Meehan. Next season another Scottish 9 (albeit Eng U20) Rory Brand has been handed a senior contract and Nick Phipps is coming in.

Probably the end of the line for McKibbin, Steele also going wouldn't be the biggest surprise

Very few young 9s have got a lot of game time at Tigers whilst Youngs and Harrison have been incumbent.

Julien Dupuy and David Mele made a brief impacts but since then not many have broken through until Ben White and Harry Simmons have recently impressed. Jono Kitto came in as a Mauger recommendation but was released at the end of his contract.

I was just thinking out loud about SQP scrum-halves that would be cost effective squad players though. Nothing more than speculation on my part that he may be moving on with Meehan firmly in the starting shirt.

Sean o'brien to Irish apparently on a 3 year deal worth 450k. Hell of a risk

Tigers sign Jordan Taufua.

Both could be great signings, I've always thought Taufua should have been more in the mix for NZ caps

Welly wrote: Tigers sign Jordan Taufua.

Where does he play?