Wales vs Ireland - Round 5

Teams TBA Thursday the 14th March

Referee Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1 Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)
Assistant 2 Karl Dickson (England)
TMO Marius Jonker (South Africa)


Wales:

L Williams (Saracens); North (Ospreys), J Davies (Scarlets), Parkes (Scarlets), Adams (Worcester); Anscombe (Cardiff Blues), G Davies (Scarlets); R Evans (Scarlets), Owens (Scarlets), Francis (Exeter Chiefs), Beard (Ospreys), AW Jones (Ospreys, capt), Navidi (Cardiff Blues), Tipuric (Ospreys), Moriarty (Dragons).

Replacements: Dee (Dragons), Smith (Ospreys), D Lewis (Cardiff Blues), Ball (Scarlets), Wainwright (Dragons), A Davies (Ospreys), Biggar (Northampton), Watkin (Ospreys).



Ireland:


Kearney; Earls, Ringrose, Aki, Stockdale; Sexton, Murray; Healy, Best (capt), Furlong, Beirne, Ryan, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Stander.

Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Porter, Roux, Conan, Marmion, Carty, Larmour.

Already?! Giv's a breather, mate!

Referee Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1 Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)

potential for a good game

SecretFly wrote:Already?!  Giv's a breather, mate!  

Sorry, we’ve all had a day off already...!

mikey_dragon wrote:Referee Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant 1 Ben O'Keeffe (New Zelaand)

potential for a good game

Definitely..!

This for me will tough to call. Both teams not playing at their best, but Wales in line for a Grand Slam. While Ireland need to finish on a high, so good game too look forward too.

If Gatland wants Wales to continue to win the aerial battle then he might have Halfpenny back in the 23. If Williams, Anscombe, Biggar and Halfpenny happen to be on the field at the same time then I can't see Ireland kicking the ball... Tomos Williams needs to take Aled Davies' place on the bench. Has Webb quit Toulon yet?

Will Liam Williams be avalible. or is he out with HIA?

We are all hopeful of Webb leaving Toulon pre-RWC but no news yet.

It will be interesting to see how Gatland and his team will look to challenge the Irish. They are stuttering but scoring good tries, have a strong set piece and strength in depth throughout their squad.

Very tight game to call. Wales haven't been exceptional this tournament, but they've played good rugby at key times, defended outstandingly well, and got into a habit of grinding out tough wins. The Irish have been underwhelming and far below the level that saw them beat the world champions in November, but still have the potential to demolish any team.

On paper, I favour Ireland. On form, I favour Wales.

mikey.

Is Halfpenny back playing for his club side yet?

majesticimperialman wrote:mikey.

Is Halfpenny back playing for his club side yet?

Shoulder injury, stinger apparently and not deemed to serious.

Duty281 wrote:Very tight game to call. Wales haven't been exceptional this tournament, but they've played good rugby at key times, defended outstandingly well, and got into a habit of grinding out tough wins. The Irish have been underwhelming and far below the level that saw them beat the world champions in November, but still have the potential to demolish any team.

On paper, I favour Ireland. On form, I favour Wales.

I think you have summed the game up well

majesticimperialman wrote:Will Liam Williams be avalible. or is he out with HIA?

HIA? With his shoulder?

RiscaGame wrote:

majesticimperialman wrote:Will Liam Williams be avalible. or is he out with HIA?

HIA? With his shoulder?

Did not realise it was a shoulder injury. Thought it was a knock on the head.

maj, yes he featured for the Scarlets against Munster.

Anyone know if the Player of the Tournament is still selected from the list of players who got a MOTM award?

You're mixing your Welsh 15s up maj. Halfpenny out for several months with concussion, two appearances for Scarlets in last few weeks. About 100 minutes in total, I think. Liam appeared to take a bang to the shoulder. Possibly a stinger, possibly something worse. Have to wait to see in the week.

Can't see Halfpenny rushed back. Welsh management have done the right thing managing him and hope they continue to do so. More important to his long term health.

I guess both sides have to approach the game with WC intensity....as if playing against the All Blacks in full pomp in a final. Wales seem to be more in that mood and with Gatland going, the energy that has been with them won't dip now. It's the last of Joe too so Ireland should have enough motivation too to push it as hard as they can to end with a Six Nations revival.
I just think Wales have more ammo primed and ready and it's Ireland that have to fully understand how much pressure Wales will be prepared to put on. They beat a still otherwise rampant England. Ireland must realise nothing they've played to date is good enough.

I said something, I tried to edit it and I ended up with this.

LT, it was edited. I wouldn't say that about O'Keefe after the recent Aus game

SecretFly wrote:I guess both sides have to approach the game with WC intensity....as if playing against the All Blacks in full pomp in a final.  Wales seem to be more in that mood and with Gatland going, the energy that has been with them won't dip now.  It's the last of Joe too so Ireland should have enough motivation too to push it as hard as they can to end with a Six Nations revival.
I just think Wales have more ammo primed and ready and it's Ireland that have to fully understand how much pressure Wales will be prepared to put on.  They beat a still otherwise rampant England.  Ireland must realise nothing they've played to date is good enough.

Hopefully

Be great to see what should be an incredibly intense match. Both coaches are great tacticians.

“Every team that wins a grand slam looks back on games and you’ll know you had a little bit of luck,” Gatland said. “Just think about Ireland last year and Johnny Sexton’s drop goal against France.”

Wales have not won that grand slam yet and they will need to be better than they were in the second half here if they are going to beat Ireland next week but still Gatland clearly feels his team just caught their lucky break.


I think Wales just may have used up that bit of good luck & next weekend is Paddy’s Day so time for a bit of ‘ luck of the Oirish’

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: “Every team that wins a grand slam looks back on games and you’ll know you had a little bit of luck,” Gatland said. “Just think about Ireland last year and Johnny Sexton’s drop goal against France.”

Wales have not won that grand slam yet and they will need to be better than they were in the second half here if they are going to beat Ireland next week but still Gatland clearly feels his team just caught their lucky break.


I think Wales just may have used up that  bit of good luck & next weekend is Paddy’s Day so time for a bit of ‘ luck of the Oirish’

The bounce of the ball is luck, what you do with it is not. You can’t honestly say that Wales are only where they are at the top of the Six Nations Championship table, 13 matches unbeaten because of luck...?

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: “Every team that wins a grand slam looks back on games and you’ll know you had a little bit of luck,” Gatland said. “Just think about Ireland last year and Johnny Sexton’s drop goal against France.”

Wales have not won that grand slam yet and they will need to be better than they were in the second half here if they are going to beat Ireland next week but still Gatland clearly feels his team just caught their lucky break.


I think Wales just may have used up that  bit of good luck & next weekend is Paddy’s Day so time for a bit of ‘ luck of the Oirish’

The bounce of the ball is luck, what you do with it is not. You can’t honestly say that Wales are only where they are at the top of the Six Nations Championship table, 13 matches unbeaten because of luck...?

I’m quoting Gats and agree you need a bit of luck to win the close games - France and Scotland included.

Massive game for ireland and here is why.

1 wales playing at home on the last weekend going for the gs. They don’t lose (it’s not England)

2 this is not some meaningless win in a friendly against the abs or even winning a series agains aus away. This actually means something

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

BigTrevsbigmac wrote: “Every team that wins a grand slam looks back on games and you’ll know you had a little bit of luck,” Gatland said. “Just think about Ireland last year and Johnny Sexton’s drop goal against France.”

Wales have not won that grand slam yet and they will need to be better than they were in the second half here if they are going to beat Ireland next week but still Gatland clearly feels his team just caught their lucky break.


I think Wales just may have used up that  bit of good luck & next weekend is Paddy’s Day so time for a bit of ‘ luck of the Oirish’

The bounce of the ball is luck, what you do with it is not. You can’t honestly say that Wales are only where they are at the top of the Six Nations Championship table, 13 matches unbeaten because of luck...?

I’m quoting Gats and agree you need a bit of luck to win the close games - France and Scotland included.

Actually I think you are mis-quoting Gats, in order to say Wales have been lucky...

Wales are more than capable of winning the Slam, but agree, we can’t play a one half game as we’ve been doing.

You can if you play the right half. Ireland, until today, haven't even been a one half team. Today (or yesterday!) they were maybe a first half team, but still less convincingly than Wales so far. The surprise possibly was that it was the first half as we tend to leave the killer blows for the second half...as does Wales mostly. So that'll be a bit of a cat and mouse game coaching-wise between the two sides - which half to devote most energy to.

Actually you could say he's misrepresenting what Gatland was trying to say (and i dont think he has) but that's a direct quote from the man himself.

SecretFly wrote:You can if you play the right half.  Ireland, until today, haven't even been a one half team.  Today (or yesterday!) they were maybe a first half team, but still less convincingly than Wales so far.  The surprise possibly was that it was the first half as we tend to leave the killer blows for the second half...as does Wales mostly.  So that'll be a bit of a cat and mouse game coaching-wise between the two sides - which half to devote most energy to.

Neither wales or Ireland look like they have reached top gear, they look like they have more to offer. As you say, there have only been periods of performances that look like the team are at their best.

There is absolute class throughout the current Irish team man for man Ireland have a better team on paper.

mikey_dragon wrote:

Tomos Williams needs to take Aled Davies' place on the bench.

We were talking about Aled Davies, I said I hope Tomos is back next week, my Irish mate said he thinks Aled Davies is the best game closing scrum half around, if you are winning and trying to run down the clock he is world class...! Because he take so blwdi long to do the basics..! Ha ha ha

"Meaningless win in a friendly against the ABs". Dod is a master wummer. Good stuff. Joe's record could be doing without the two meaningless wins against the ABs and the crud series win in Australia. As that wise lady said on YouTube some years ago: "ain't nobody got time for that".
This game of meaning next week means that we have a chance of coming second (which would be very nice but not sensational) and handing the championship to strutting angry eye/happy eye Jones. What a bloody guagmire to be in for us. Joe will have sleepless nights trying to figure out what he should do.... give Gats his final big party with Wales or hand the party over to the Big Lads in London? Choices choices.....

Have to say I was hoping Scotland would do us a favour and burst the Welsh bubble but we'll just have to do it ourselves....

Seriously this will be huge game, Ireland are out of the title race realistically but from the RWC perspective need to finish the campaign with a big performance. We've been improving game by game but need our biggest performance since November to have any chance of winning.

I actually don't think Wales have played particularly well, bar the England game but have shown a real ability to win without doing very much and just look like they don't know how to lose.

I did fancy Wales before the tournament, if they beat France away but I'm backing Ireland to spoil the party here and hand the title, begrudgingly, to England....

As long as the ref is stronger than the one we had on Saturday I will be happy. On Saturday the officials started listening to the crowd too much, and the ref allowed Scotland to do whatever they liked at the breakdown, an area where Ireland are notorious for targeting.

He allowed both sides to get away with the breakdown to be fair.

Really hoping Ireland don't pick Tadhg Beirne for this one. Although Henderson and Ryan are brilliant as well. In fact, I'm hoping something might befall all Irish players 6'5" and above between now and Saturday...

No 7&1/2 wrote:He allowed both sides to get away with the breakdown to be fair.

Really? I'd say the opposite. Definitely the fussiest referee Wales have had so far at ruck time. Wales had some harsh penalties given against them at the breakdown. Heavily favoured the team in possession though, hence getting stung second half in defence. But don't think he was lenient at all.

Referee in this one is Angus Gardner. Best ref in the world, apparently. Hope neither team has cause to bemoan that at the end of the game.

He wasn't overly consistent or that bothered by the actual laws miaow! Don't think either team benefit from that sort of approach.

It will be interesting to see what Schmidt does. Dillane is playing well but I have a feeling he'll bring Beirne in to the bench or start alongside Ryan with Henderson on the bench. Henderson was superb against France but with the 6 day turn around I think we will see changes.

I predict we will see -

15 Kearney
14 Earls
13 Ringrose
12 Aki
11 Stockdale
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Stander
7 O'Brien
6 O'Mahoney
5 Beirne/Henderson
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Best
1 Healy

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ryan, Henderson/Beirne, Conan, Cooney, Carbury, Larmour.

rodders wrote:It will be interesting to see what Schmidt does. Dillane is playing well but I have a feeling he'll bring Beirne in to the bench or start alongside Ryan with Henderson on the bench. Henderson was superb against France but with the 6 day turn around I think we will see changes.

I predict we will see -

15 Kearney
14 Earls
13 Ringrose
12 Aki
11 Stockdale
10 Sexton
9 Murray
8 Stander
7 O'Brien
6 O'Mahoney
5 Beirne/Henderson
4 Ryan
3 Furlong
2 Best
1 Healy

Kilcoyne, Cronin, Ryan, Henderson/Beirne, Conan, Cooney, Carbury, Larmour.

That is a hell of a team. Gatland and AWJ were heaping their respect on to Ireland post match. Rightly so, the players know each other well and the Irish have achieved provincial and international successes that outway the Welsh over a long period, most of Gatlands tenure.

Wales can certainly beat Ireland. We are a very good side ourselves, we are confident, consistent and currently on a good run of games.

This will be a great finale..!

No 7&1/2 wrote:He wasn't overly consistent or that bothered by the actual laws miaow! Don't think either team benefit from that sort of approach.

Which ref is true to the laws at the breakdown these days? I think he allowed less of a contest, particularly first half, than any other ref I've seen this tournament and had little time for the 'dark arts' like lying on, not rolling away, illegal hands to slow it down etc. for a split second. Perhaps a little less tight in the second half than the first, so inconsistent, but I'd say he reffed closer to the laws than most refs do.

He penalised a lot for not rolling away but was allowing a few times for simply slowing the ball to be gotten away with. Jones was pushing his luck quite a lot of the time. You can pick put a few instances where it was the wrong decision which of course you can in the majority of games but it wasn't worse for either side.

I hope Ireland don't pick Beirne either. We still have two more games against Wales after next weekend. Give him the warmup games and let his hunger get him a plane ticket if he impresses.

From a Welsh point of view my biggest concern is that Ireland's strong points - Lineout and Driving Maul is Wales weakest in this 6 Nations.- Can't see Ireland wanting to play it expansive and their keep ball is probably better than any other side at the moment. Its been an odd six nations so far - despite Wales beating England , England look the best balanced and most threatening side in the tournament at the moment and lets be honest no one is giving Scotland a hope next weekend so its Grand slam or nothing for us.

I don't think I've seen a 6 Nations where sides have had the upper hand and dominated in one half only to see the whole game turned on its head in the second - think France V Wales, Scotland V Wales and even England V Wales - see where I'm going with Wales- there's a pattern emerging.

But I think that's more tactics than chance though, Steve. I know others disagree but I see Gatland and his coaches deciding when Wales truly attack a game. I've been very impressed by them, especially that first half against Scotland - slick stuff. But then the second half ( the defending bit) was possibly even better. Were they being assaulted by Scotland or did they get a very good defending session in in advance of the Ireland game? Gatland truly is the most savvy of coaches....

It really will be a coaching battle of wills as Joe will suspect that Wales might be set up to suck up all the attacking energy of a rejuvenated Ireland in the first half, much as they did against England. And Gats will probably guess that Joe might be thinking that's how it might go so instead try to do most damage to Ireland in that first half, much as England did in Dublin.

But Joe is probably conscious that Gats is thinking that Joe is thinking that Gats is thinking that Joe is thinking........

You get the drift. I think Joe and Gats love dogfighting each other on tactics.

miaow wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:He wasn't overly consistent or that bothered by the actual laws miaow! Don't think either team benefit from that sort of approach.

Which ref is true to the laws at the breakdown these days? I think he allowed less of a contest, particularly first half, than any other ref I've seen this tournament and had little time for the 'dark arts' like lying on, not rolling away, illegal hands to slow it down etc. for a split second. Perhaps a little less tight in the second half than the first, so inconsistent, but I'd say he reffed closer to the laws than most refs do.

He was allowing Scotland to hold onto the ball for too long at the rucks and mauls, Scotland were also taking players out beyond the ruck and from the sides, they were also taking players out before they had the chance to join the rucks and mauls, I lost count of the amount of times a Welsh player was calling to the officials as they were being man handled nowhere near the rucks and mauls, and do not get me started on high tackles, the officials started listening to the crowd.

Just a thought, Lord, but do you ever seriously take some time out to assess how your own team might be getting the benefit of the doubt in reffing decisions through games both in this and in other contests down through the years? It just seems you are so blinkered in thinking Wales always the victim of reffing decisions rather than other sides perhaps getting purple patches in games, finding a rhythm of their own etc. You seem unwilling to accept that Wales can be as smart at the infringing and getting away with it as other teams.
When fans acknowledge that their own side can benefit from reffing decisions not being made against them, they kinda go easier on always blaming refs for what the opposition does in a game.

SecretFly wrote: Just a thought, Lord, but do you ever seriously take some time out to assess how your own team might be getting the benefit of the doubt in reffing decisions through games both in this and in other contests down through the years? It just seems you are so blinkered in thinking Wales always the victim of reffing decisions rather than other sides perhaps getting purple patches in games, finding a rhythm of their own etc.  You seem unwilling to accept that Wales can be as smart at the infringing and getting away with it as other teams.  
When fans acknowledge that their own side can benefit from reffing decisions not being made against them, they kinda go easier on always blaming refs for what the opposition does in a game.

Whatever.

AWJ got away with a lot at the breakdown.

But Wales target rucks and mauls as parts of their tactics, they have players like Tuperic and Navidi, Rob Evans, Ken Owens, all these players like a good steal at the rucks and mauls, when it's part of your game, and you cannot use it as the ref is turning a blind eye, then yes, you will notice it a lot more against you.

So Wales can get away with iffy stuff because it's part of how they play/tactics?

So be it. That's a pragmatic reading of reality. That's how a game balances out. Judge the game, judge the ref and act accordingly to the edge of what is legal IF the ref has blind spots on just what is legal or otherwise. That's the game as you've acknowledged. So back to Scotland, they played the game in the same spirit as Wales and didn't have enough to get over the line.