The Ashes - official thread

[Gooseberry]

First topic message reminder :

SR that's not how mental fatigue works.
Also Stokes had a long break last year ...which he came back from err ...mentaly fatigued. Buttler and Bairstow haven't had that luxury.

But anyway it's not a case of "attitude" , ask Trott and Trescothick.

[sirfredperry]

Scrub my earlier post. Of course now that Aus are two down I meant to say: Why didn't Root declare earlier? !

[alfie]

Archer with much better length today with the new ball...and reaping the rewards.

He is a quick learner

And now he's hit the Concussion Sub in the head !

[Pr4wn]

Anyone else listening on TMS? Mitchell Johnson is absolutely woeful.

Really ? He's talked good sense in the times I've heard him...not listening today so can't really comment but I'm surprised to hear that.  Thought he might turn out a reasonable comments man...

Two down !  Khawaja gone...two for Archer and the crowd is alive...

He just seems to take a really long time to say absolutely nothing.

[Pal Joey]

Very difficult situation for Australia to state the obvious.
Just under 40 overs to go... I don't think they will survive this onslaught. I'm just glad Labuschagne has lost the bubble gum... some more serious work ahead of him now.

Easy for you to stay up Alfie. Howling wind outside here now. This is all too tortuous for me!

[GSC]

time for some Woakes I think

[GSC]

need a burst after tea or this is going to peter out pretty quickly you think

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Bloody good to see an English quick who can ruffle the opposition

[Pal Joey]

Wow... some serious pace and bounce from Archer. It's almost as if he's bowling on a different pitch to Cummins and co. Starc must be feeling pretty low watching this. I'm still perplexed by his omission; especially here at Lord's. We really needed some of his aggression for this match.

[alfie]

Can't see a result unless Leach spins a real web after tea. Pity they lost that hour this morning.

Archer had them rattled early on. Bowled a better length than in the first innings...though he has reverted to slightly overdoing the short stuff since. Very smart low catch by Burns who has done well both batting and catching in this series

Will give it half an hour after tea just in case...

[alfie]

Wow... some serious pace and bounce from Archer. It's almost as if he's bowling on a different pitch to Cummins and co. Starc must be feeling pretty low watching this. I'm still perplexed by his omission; especially here at Lord's. We really needed some of his aggression for this match.

Starc to play on Thursday , surely ? Who gets the chop ? Siddle has worked his socks off and they want one workhorse ...

Suddenly it seems to be Australia with the selection problems. They are still one up though so no need to panic.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Wow... some serious pace and bounce from Archer. It's almost as if he's bowling on a different pitch to Cummins and co. Starc must be feeling pretty low watching this. I'm still perplexed by his omission; especially here at Lord's. We really needed some of his aggression for this match.

Starc to play on Thursday , surely ?  Who gets the chop ? Siddle has worked his socks off and they want one workhorse ...

Suddenly it seems to be Australia with the selection problems.  They are still one up though so no need to panic.

Still one up, but certainly feels like the introduction of Archer along with the injury to smith has given England real hope in the series, when on day 1 (well 2) here it looked very bleak. A few more wickets this evening would be lovely, would like to see Leach given a long bowl, chance for him to get a few

[alfie]

Leach strikes !

Kept low , that one. Interesting...

[Pal Joey]

Wow... some serious pace and bounce from Archer. It's almost as if he's bowling on a different pitch to Cummins and co. Starc must be feeling pretty low watching this. I'm still perplexed by his omission; especially here at Lord's. We really needed some of his aggression for this match.

Starc to play on Thursday , surely ?  Who gets the chop ? Siddle has worked his socks off and they want one workhorse ...

Suddenly it seems to be Australia with the selection problems.  They are still one up though so no need to panic.

I realise Siddle has done very well containing runs but the prospect of Starc not playing a match this series because they fear he may leak runs (a la Johnson, Lee in England) is perhaps a little paranoid behaviour from the selectors. I just read some article as to why he was left out - based on a short spell in the Worcester match.

Starc's average is around 30 there, is it not? Also the fact that he was the leading wicket taker in the World Cup and thus in pretty hot form; surely a no-brainer to have him in the mix.

Easy to say in retrospect but I would have rested Sidds and had Starc, Cummins and Hazlewood for this one.

And now Bangers just got mashed.

[GSC]

leach comes to the party

[alfie]

Wow... some serious pace and bounce from Archer. It's almost as if he's bowling on a different pitch to Cummins and co. Starc must be feeling pretty low watching this. I'm still perplexed by his omission; especially here at Lord's. We really needed some of his aggression for this match.

Starc to play on Thursday , surely ?  Who gets the chop ? Siddle has worked his socks off and they want one workhorse ...

Suddenly it seems to be Australia with the selection problems.  They are still one up though so no need to panic.

Still one up, but certainly feels like the introduction of Archer along with the injury to smith has given England real hope in the series, when on day 1 (well 2) here it looked very bleak. A few more wickets this evening would be lovely, would like to see Leach given a long bowl, chance for him to get a few

Actually , I wasn't all that pessimistic on that first day...always felt a decent second innings was possible and Australia had to bat last. But yes , Smith going down...and the knock-on effect (not a pun !) of the other bats getting rattled has changed the general look of the contest.
Archer has certainly seemed to get faster and more dangerous as the game has progressed. It is not just his actual pace , I think , so much as the way he can crank it up with no discernible change in action. Still like to see him pitch more balls up ...keep them looking for the short one...

Leach looking dangerous.

[GSC]

not entire sure where head's head is at

[Pal Joey]

not entire sure where head's head is at

Yeah. He wants to go down swinging it seems. But who's going to tap him on the shoulder and tell him to pull his head in?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

You’ll all be shocked to hear James Vince has nicked off outside off stump when he has a start, against surrey

[JDizzle]

Time for a break for Jofra. Woakes or Broad need to do something special.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Time for a break for Jofra. Woakes or Broad need to do something special.

Agree, 10 on the spin for Archer now, time for a rest. Least he’s answered any questions about his fitness or ability to bowl long spells!

[Pal Joey]

I hear those police sirens in the background. Coming for Warner (and Bancroft) obviously.

[alfie]

Time for a break for Jofra. Woakes or Broad need to do something special.

Agree, 10 on the spin for Archer now, time for a rest. Least he’s answered any questions about his fitness or ability to bowl long spells!

Yeah I think it's safe to say he's recovered from the side strain

Think Root has maybe overused him a bit today ..tempting I know , and he's obviously keen to get at 'em ; but Woakes has been a bit wasted despite his excellent record on this ground. All academic anyway as it looks as if this will fizzle out tamely enough now...Labuschagne has done well to steady the ship

A good Test Match .. In so far as the rotten weather has allowed. See you all at Headingley...

[Pal Joey]

There's Rachel Johnson... so presumably a no deal draw is on the cards.

[GSC]

tend to think these 2 have seen it off now

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Is Woakes carrying an injury or Root just not bowling him? Woakes averages 9 at Lords with the ball.

[GSC]

Smith's replacement worth a look at headingley? been a resilient knock

suggesting light might end this soonish

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Fair to say Jason Roy has not had a good game

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Do Australia have the courage to axe Warner, potentially ending his Test career? Bancroft equally as bad but he tries to at least fight as long as he possibly can.

If Smith is unfit Warner might get a stay of execution. If Smith is fit do they axe both Bancroft and Warner - pushing khawaja up to open with Harris?

[Duty281]

Well we're getting the result that was likeliest - a tame draw. It's a good result for England, though not enough to make up for the debacle at Edgbaston. Buttler and Bairstow got some time out in the middle and, though overbowled, Archer added to his reputation. Unsure what changes, if any, England will be making for Leeds.

If Smith is out of Thursday's test it leaves a yawning chasm in the Australian batting line-up, and England simply have to win that game as you'd expect Smith to return for games four and five. And surely, surely Starc will come into the Aussie line-up.

[Nathaniel Jacobs]

Smith said 'he's got a mild concussion' and wants to play in Leeds.

[No name Bertie]

I assume Woakes must be carrying an injury and he is going to miss the third test? It wouldn't surprise me if Archer doesn't develop an injury the way Root has been using him.

[No name Bertie]

Ps Who is next in line for England Captaincy if it is decided Root is not a very good Captain and it is affecting his batting and his mind?

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Think we should shake hands here and save the legs a bit for Thursday

[Pal Joey]

Yeah, 3:36am here.
I was in bed at the fall of those first 2 wickets. Had to get up again... put warm clothes on and come down to watch on the PC... not the TV.
Seems to have worked. Until that catch?

[robbo277]

Need a wicket every other over from here, or more if the light goes.

It’s given us more of a hope, but it’s still a long shot.

[Gooseberry]

At what point will folk admit that leach is England's best spinner and test class?

[robbo277]

Leach has bowled very nicely this test. Not just with the wickets in this innings but the control in the first as well. He probably had the whole summer anyway but if he keeps bowling like this it might be his spot for a longer while.

The thing about his control going forward is that if he can provide that option as Lyon does for Australia it would mean we can play a 4 man attack (with Stokes as a batter) or we could use Archer as more of a shock bowler in shorter spells.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

My word what a catch!

Great effort here, just running out of time...if only we hadn’t lost that hours play this morning!

[robbo277]

You feel Australia will squeeze home from here. 4 wickets in hand, 4 overs to go, a set batsman and Cummins is no mug. An extra hour would have made it interesting.

[robbo277]

Archer can’t bowl because of the light. Denly to spin us to victory?

[GSC]

good effort but just a bit short

plenty to build on after the collapse of edgbaston

[robbo277]

Burns drops a very tight chance off Cummins at silly point. He was basically in the edge of the pitch and it came off the face and couldn’t cling on.

[Pal Joey]

Phew... too close for comfort. Off to bed at 04:24. What a tense finish that was!

[KP_fan]

My Observations on a Hectic Day-5

-Eng walks away with credits and a boosted morale ( more on this later)

-As I wrote yesterday of Eng had to declare they would bat too long and hence leave too little time to bowl Aus out.
Won't blame them...their strategy was...Don't lose at any cost first of all and stay in the series.
Bat to 110% safety and then put Aus under pressure and walk away with at least boosted morale / momentum, knowing that there may be no Smith in next game.

And I don't think Smith will play next game...I remember Gambhir was hit on the neck / helmet in Eng and he went worse or a week before recovering to play in the tour.
I think Smith will be back for T4...and Labuschagne's form will give them confidence to Aus to rest Smith and get him fresh for last 2 tests.

-Inspite of his "fiery" spells Archer ain't running through the sides...taking barely a wicket or two.....because his length is still half a yard short, and often too wide....and he is bowling more to intimidate then to blow away sides with wickets.
He must watch Waqar, Steyn, Akhtar & Johnson's videos and learn from their lengths.

-Eng did not use their spinner as well as they should have...Leach seems very capable and should have pretty much bowled from one end given the assistance and should have come round the wicket all the time to bring more modes of dismissals into play…..at least to all Right handers.

-Laburschagne and Head got confidence building time in the middle....and Labuschagne's footwork & reflexes have looked very good.
And he can bowl very handy leg spin from what I remember of him in UAE.

To win the next test Eng should implement as many of following:
1- Win the toss & bat first( not in their control)
2-Get Root to go back to No.4 ( How? its Eng selectors problem)
3-Get Archer to bowl shorter spells ( 3 over spells) and fuller lengths.
4-Give longer spells to Leach and largely round the wicket to right handers


For next test Aus must:

1-bring Starc in to match the intimidatory pace and fire.....its ridiculous to keep a bowler of his pace and quality out for Siddle

2-Lyon needs to try less hard and bowl tight consistent lengths...that's how his wickets come.

3-Warner needs to step up and get some runs.

4-Win the toss and without an iota of hesitation bat first. They dodged the bullet today here due to a rains……and the pressures of batting 4th were amply clear

PS* Root picked Laburscagne’s catch off the ground

[robbo277]

Head sees Australia home, assisted by Cummins. 1 more win now retains them the urn. England need two wins and a draw (or better) from 3 tests.

In other news, Sibley and Crawley both failed for their counties. Questions remain over the batting line up.

I’d go with: Burns, Denly, Roy, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Bairstow, Woakes, Archer, Broad, Leach. Or potentially replace Denly with someone from outside the group. I’d potentially swap Roy and Stokes as well.

[robbo277]

KP_fan

Re: Archer, he took 5 wickets on debut and you could probably credit him with an assist on some of the wickets at the other end - definitely Smith in the first innings.

There are learning points for him, but that he can play like that and still get better should be a worry for our opponents.

[No name Bertie]

So why was Woakes hardly used in the second innings and maybe underused in the first innings. Not sure Archer will last if he is used so intensively. Three tests to go and Australia one up. The ball strike to Steve Smith looked awful - he seemed to duck and turn his head into it - he just didn't look to see where the ball was going - I guess the speed and bounce was just too much for him. You have to hope he recovers quickly.

[KP_fan]

KP_fan

Re: Archer, he took 5 wickets on debut and you could probably credit him with an assist on some of the wickets at the other end - definitely Smith in the first innings.

There are learning points for him, but that he can play like that and still get better should be a worry for our opponents.

No one is doubting Archer's potential or impact.....and yet we must look at the fact he bowled  34 out of 140 overs that's a fourth of the overs and he's not even " the spinner holding one end"

a-He should be bowled less....or else it's a  matter of time he will breakdown
b-He must learn that when he is on a roll he must pluck out 5 or 6 or 7 wickets in an inning....and I think he will...by bowling fuller and making the batsman play a lot more

[Steffan]

I think we will lose the third test. England have picked up momentum and would have won if it had not been for the rain

Third test will be exciting though. Hope Smith is back

[KP_fan]

I think we will lose the third test. England have picked up momentum and would have won if it had not been for the rain

Third test will be exciting though. Hope Smith is back

I think Eng got close because:
a-Aus gifted them the chance to bat first...and as i wrote earlier they dd so trying to force a win in 3.5 innings. If there was no rain Aus would have surely batted first.
b-Lyon had one switched off inning....for if he had bowled his normal self....Eng could have been dismissed with 200ish and then the game could have gone either way

I think the 3rd test will be a well fought one....50-50....toss will have an impact as will Starc if Aus bring him in.

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