Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

by maestegmafia Wed 18 Sep 2019, 12:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:26 pm

5 tries for Adams, and I couldn't disagree more.

Don't let the tackles against Fiji take up too much mental space - look at how O'Connor, Hodge and all the other Australian outside backs got absolutely bumped off in the first half v Fiji. Just had to suck that one up, Adams wasn't the only one missing tackles.

In my opinion Adams looks like one of the most game-intelligent players in this team. Halfpenny, for all his positives, is tame in attack in comparison. A case to be made for coming on to the bench as if Biggar goes off, I'd fancy him kicking v France with Patchell focusing on the basics and the drop goal, but never starting. Halfpenny's not a winger anymore, he's the best backfield defensive 15 in world rugby.

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:30 pm

Sorry Afro, I do not agree.

Adams is a much better winger than 1/2p, IMO. Halfpenny himself is only really good for a few run ins. He's lost pace, goes to ground too easily and has very little by way of side step or jinking running. He's a solid defender though. And obviously a good kicker. But that's about it.

by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:30 pm

Great year for Wales so far, really motoring and look nailed on for a semi final. Clear skies ahead, fair play.

by **RiscaGame** Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:33 pm

I think the coaches reacted well to that Fiji game, to be honest. Just have to acknowledge that the Fijians have incredible athletes and are hard to stop. At least Adams did go low and not too high.

I have just seen that a Uruguay player was cited after yesterday (for what it's worth). Didn't see any foul play highlighted.

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:34 pm

Yeah, looks good Collapse.

Felt something brewing around the Lions tour. Scarlets going well, genuine depth, solid tour to the Pacific with some real fringe players, and then backed that up v Argentina. Not the finished article, and we've been unlucky with injuries, but just doing enough to keep the winning machine ticking over.

by mikey_dragon Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:37 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I think the coaches reacted well to that Fiji game, to be honest. Just have to acknowledge that the Fijians have incredible athletes and are hard to stop. At least Adams did go low and not too high.

I have just seen that a Uruguay player was cited after yesterday (for what it's worth). Didn't see any foul play highlighted.

Yeah, even Shaun Edwards wasn't upset about it - well, he at least wasn't that way during the post-game interviews. Who knows what was said behind closed doors. Fijians, and the other pacific islanders for that matter are just made for rugby.

by Collapse2005 Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:46 pm

miaow wrote:Yeah, looks good Collapse.

Felt something brewing around the Lions tour. Scarlets going well, genuine depth, solid tour to the Pacific with some real fringe players, and then backed that up v Argentina. Not the finished article, and we've been unlucky with injuries, but just doing enough to keep the winning machine ticking over.

I think in Biggar and AWJ (and maybe a couple of others) you have got two incredibly good players that are also really confident, ambitious and brave and good leaders who believe that they can beat anyone. I think that confidence and leadership is something Wales may have missed in the past. Gatland also does a great job of making them believe that they can beat anyone.

by **Afro** Mon 14 Oct 2019, 2:50 pm

miaow wrote:5 tries for Adams, and I couldn't disagree more.

Don't let the tackles against Fiji take up too much mental space - look at how O'Connor, Hodge and all the other Australian outside backs got absolutely bumped off in the first half v Fiji. Just had to suck that one up, Adams wasn't the only one missing tackles.

In my opinion Adams looks like one of the most game-intelligent players in this team. Halfpenny, for all his positives, is tame in attack in comparison. A case to be made for coming on to the bench as if Biggar goes off, I'd fancy him kicking v France with Patchell focusing on the basics and the drop goal, but never starting. Halfpenny's not a winger anymore, he's the best backfield defensive 15 in world rugby.

I wasn't even considering the defending for the Fiji tries. I might be being harsh on him as the Georgia try was a great finish, and he had to take and score the first try against Fiji, albeit that it was a great kick from Patchell that earnt it.

Maybe not Halfpenny, but I'm still not on the Adam bandwagon yet. I remain to be convinced he is good enough

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 3:06 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I think the coaches reacted well to that Fiji game, to be honest. Just have to acknowledge that the Fijians have incredible athletes and are hard to stop. At least Adams did go low and not too high.

I have just seen that a Uruguay player was cited after yesterday (for what it's worth). Didn't see any foul play highlighted.

Someone posted something about it on Twitter, a video I think, but it was taken down by the time I got there so couldn't see. Something to do with a punch on a Wales player when they (or we perhaps) were scoring a try.

by **RiscaGame** Mon 14 Oct 2019, 3:13 pm

Interesting, cheers.

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 3:17 pm

Fair enough Afro. I'm struggling to think of a tidier and more complete winger who's played for Wales since George North broke through. I can't really think of one. Adams isn't your headline star, he's not got one or two exceptional traits - like Cuthbert did - but he's just very good at most things. Reminds me of Tom Shanklin but as a winger - and no, not the actual Shanklin on the wing, just someone reliable and competent at the basics who helps tie the team together. Don't ever feel worried watching Adams - don't worry about him getting bunlded in to touch needlessly, having poor footwork and getting smashed, not having the pace and spatial awareness to finish off a gap or linebreak. He also runs nice support lines, which is a rarity in this team.

It's been 12 months of this. If it were just good form we'd have seen by now, he would have dropped off. I'd go back as far as Shane Williams and say there probably hasn't been a better winger break through - Czekaj, Tom Jones, countless others who either became full backs (Halfpenny, Byrne, Stoddart) or faded with a whimper (Harry Williams, Will Harries, Eli Walker, Tom Prydie, even Steff Evans by the looks of things). And that's not because he's world class - he's just dependable. Exactly what Wales need after Cuthbert.

by chris_501 Mon 14 Oct 2019, 4:37 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
miaow wrote:Yeah, looks good Collapse.

Felt something brewing around the Lions tour. Scarlets going well, genuine depth, solid tour to the Pacific with some real fringe players, and then backed that up v Argentina. Not the finished article, and we've been unlucky with injuries, but just doing enough to keep the winning machine ticking over.

I think in Biggar and AWJ (and maybe a couple of others) you have got two incredibly good players that are also really confident, ambitious and brave and good leaders who believe that they can beat anyone. I think that confidence and leadership is something Wales may have missed in the past. Gatland also does a great job of making them believe that they can beat anyone.

If there was an option of a fully fit and firing Warburton captaining, or AWJ, who would everyone select?

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 14 Oct 2019, 4:48 pm

I'd go with Warburton purely for how good he was with referees.

by Guest Mon 14 Oct 2019, 5:33 pm

Warburton's the better player and, as mentioned, better at dealing with refs. But AWJ is the natural leader and heartbeat and I think Wales have played better without Warburton 'there'.

One thing I think Wales get from AWJ - and with Biggar - is the mental side of it. With Warburton I never got the sense other playrs fed off how good he was. He was always quite isolated in a way, always very driven but selfishly, almost, an inner strength.

It's similar to the BOD v POC issue. BOD and Warburton are phenomenal players who were made captain, but POC and AWJ were the heart, soul, and guts of the team. However I just felt AWJ didn't really flourish as a leader until he could have real control, when Warburton left. For all Wales' and the Lions success, it was Gethin and AWJ holding the trophy in the final game as much as it was Warburton, and that probably counted against him as well - not durable enough.

It would have been interesting to see how AWJ would have captained if Warburton was properly demoted but had kept playing. Gatland wouldn't have done it, I don't think, as it just causes an issue. But AWJ had a shaky start to his captaincy in 2017, if I remember - turnng down kicks at goal against England and not delivering the goods. He's a quick learner and although he's not as good at dealing with the refs - which could haunt us in tight games - he also adds pressure on them that Warburton doesn't, so swings and roundabouts.

All in all, long way of saying I think we miss Warburton as a player - who wouldn't - but AWJ is the better 'leader' of the team. In terms of captaincy it's really hard to tell.

by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Oct 2019, 11:37 am

Back then it was Warburton, but now it's AWJ for how he's grown into the role. He's surpassed Warburtons leadership for me.

by **Afro** Tue 15 Oct 2019, 2:08 pm

I was a massive fan of Warburton, both as a player and a captain, I'd have AWJ on a par as captain now, but Warburton as the better player.

That period where the backrow was Warbuton, Lydiate and Faletau was incredible.

by **Afro** Tue 15 Oct 2019, 2:13 pm

Which gets me thinking - what would be your best Wales XV of what I call the "Wales Grand Slam era" i.e. since 2005?

Definites for me are Gethin Jenkins, AWJ, Warburton and Shane

by chris_501 Tue 15 Oct 2019, 3:17 pm

Afro wrote:Which gets me thinking - what would be your best Wales XV of what I call the "Wales Grand Slam era" i.e. since 2005?

Definites for me are Gethin Jenkins, AWJ, Warburton and Shane

Geth, Rees, Adam Jones, AWJ, Charteris, Ryan Jones, Warburton, Faletau, Peel, Jones, Shane, Henson, JD2, North, Halfpenny
Reps. Hibbard, Duncan Jones, Lee, Ian Evans, Nugget, Phillips, Biggar, Sanjay

by Guest Tue 15 Oct 2019, 3:46 pm

Best XV since 05...hmmm, tricky one.

1. Gethin - no one else really comes close, but honourable mention to Paul James who would be a starting prop in any other era.
2. Ken Owens - just more class to him than Hibbard or anyone else. More to his game. Matthew Rees a close second. Still a bit more to come from Ken as well.
3. Adam Jones - best TH in the world from 09-13ish.
4. Ian Evans - I'm really struggling with this. Bradley Davies never quite lived up to the hype, but Ian Gough was a great sevant, Charteris fantastic in patches after underachieving in the early years. Toss of a coin between Ian Evans - who was the 'best' of the lot but never achieved close to what he should through injury - and Charteris, who came good in the end and was key at 2 RWCs. Ian Evans at his best, which was too rare, gets him the nod, and it wasn't all bunched up in one period - good in the early years, but also good in 2013.
5. AWJ - like Gethin, easy enough.
6. Ryan Jones - I did have Dan Lydiate here. Then I saw the issue at 8 and picked RJ, who was just a really natural rugby player. Aside from Lydiate, woh was probably too much of a flash in the pan and one dimensional really, I'd say other honourable mentions go to Dafydd Jones, who deserved more but for injuries (and red cards...), and maybe a few of the recent boys like Shingler and Navidi as well.
7. Sam Warburton - Tipuric is basically on par with Warburton. It's so, so close. Martyn Williams now quite a distant 3rd place despite his quality.
8. Taulupe Faletau - very close with Ryan Jones and I had Lydiate at 6 before considering that RJ was a better player and deserves the 6 shirt. I've felt Faletau has been Wales' best player for years, but Tipuric is pushing him very close now.

9. Dwayne Peel - TOUGH question. Very tough. Mike Phillips, Rhys Webb, Gareth Davies all in with a shout. Peel was just a cut above at his best, and takes it because of that, but doesn't have the longevity of the others. I could be quite easily argued out of this for Phillips - or even Gareth depending on what he does over the next few years - to take his place.
10. Stephen Jones - starting Lions 10. Not perfect, nor is Biggar, which makes it a really tough call. If Biggar leads Wales to a WC trophy then he takes this as SJ ultimately refused to kick a drop goal in the dying seconds v France in 2011, which is a mark against him even if it was the tail end of his career and he was past his best and low on confidence. Hook was only good from 06-08/09 as a 10, so not part of the convo for me.
11. Shane - world class natural rugby player.
12. Gavin Henson - despite everything else Wales haven't had a creative back come close to Henson. With a healthier mental approach/culture of toughness (i.e. had be been in NZ) he would have been a world great.
13. JD2 - I actually think this is quite close despite what others might think. Shanklin was a quality player, but JD2 has the pedigree and Lions caps on his side that just puts him in front. Don't think JD2 is the complete individual.
14. North - I'm trying to think of who else comes close, but no one does, really. Not in 05, not in 08, and not since he broke through.
15. Liam Williams - some quality here. Lee Byrne is just a shade behind Liam Williams, with Halfpenny just a shade behind Byrne for me. Had Byrne not got injured in 09 he would have Lions test caps to his name ahead of Kearney. Just a majestic runner, linked amazingly with Shane. Liam Williams just has it 'all' though - a few areas where 1/2P and Byrne pip him, but can't think of a weakness for Liam.

by **LondonTiger** Tue 15 Oct 2019, 3:56 pm

Did Henson actually deliver on his potential enough to be in this kind of selection? 1/2p 2009-13 was exceptional and for me that version was a better all-rounder than Liam Williams.

Ian Evans - one of a tiny number of people (note people not rugby players) I actively dislike.

by Guest Tue 15 Oct 2019, 4:07 pm

Henson, for me, yes. Just enough. The key point is no 12 has come close, in fact no centre or midfielder in general. 2005, 2008 - two grand slames, that's enough, surely?

Halfpenny played on the wing in 09/10, and only won the 15 shirt at the 2011 RWC as Byrne got injured. Many of his early tries were just neat finishes off the good work Shane, and Byrne, were doing inside him.

Halfpenny was an excellent servant and has been a great player in his own right, but I just think Liam and Byrne have been better. Liam has the 2017 Lions were Halfpenny had 2013. Byrne would have had 09. It's really close between the lot of them. Halfpenny's attacking ability and instincts are what let him down, basically.

Interesting - any specifics on why you dislike him? He does look like your stereotypical 'banter' rugby player, but haven't met him in person let alone for any length of time. There's a story here, surely...

by **Afro** Tue 15 Oct 2019, 4:21 pm

I'm torn on so many.

1. Geth
2. Ken Owens
3 Adam Jones
4 & 5 AWJ gets in, but then can't pick between a long list of Cockbain, Sidoli and Ian Evans
6 Ryan Jones
7 Warburton
8 Faletau
9 Phillips - agree with others at how close a pick it is though
10 Biggar
11 Shane
12 Jamie Roberts
13 JD2
14 Halfpenny
15 Gareth Thomas

Honourable mentions for a few I was tempted by, namely Jonathan Thomas, Shanklin, Sonny Parker and Lee Byrne

by maestegmafia Tue 15 Oct 2019, 7:15 pm

Luke Chatteris in the second row

by Pie Tue 15 Oct 2019, 7:20 pm

Gav is the only truly world class back Wales have ever had since JPR and Edwards. Shane nearly.

Just a shame he was mismanaged and so prone to injury. Over trained IMO.

Had he been a bit more mature, spent less time in Church and had the right team around him he would have been Wales' greatest player up there with JPR and Edwards. Dreadful, dreadful waste.

by Guest Tue 15 Oct 2019, 7:45 pm

If Rob Sidoli is the best Welsh lock in the last 15 years we're really struggling...

by maestegmafia Tue 15 Oct 2019, 10:26 pm

Gethin
Owens
Adam
AWJ
Charteris
Navidi
Sam
Toby
Dwayne
Wellies
Shane
Gav
JD2
Josh
Sanjay

by maestegmafia Tue 15 Oct 2019, 10:29 pm

Tough calls there, I really rate Tips and Nugget as open sides but Warburton in his pomp was epic. Scrum half is really hard, Dwayne pips Rhys, Mike Phillips and just edges it past Aled Davies

by mikey_dragon Tue 15 Oct 2019, 11:37 pm

Gethin Jenkins
Richard Hibbard
Adam Jones
AWJ
Luke Charteris
Ryan Jones
Sam Warburton
Taulupe Faletau

Mike Phillips
Dan Biggar
Shane Williams
Gavin Henson
Jonathan Davies
Liam Williams
Lee Byrne

Almost put Lydiate at 6. Phillips and Byrne were two of the most effective (positively) in the backline during their day. Webb and Davies close behind Phillips. Couldn't put North in as he's had a few too many drop-offs.

by maestegmafia Wed 16 Oct 2019, 9:37 pm

I would love to see a Henson type centre alongside a JD2 type centre for wales, pace power and skill.

by Luckless Pedestrian Thu 17 Oct 2019, 12:25 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Gethin Jenkins
Richard Hibbard
Adam Jones
AWJ
Luke Charteris
Ryan Jones
Sam Warburton
Taulupe Faletau

Mike Phillips
Dan Biggar
Shane Williams
Gavin Henson
Jonathan Davies
Liam Williams
Lee Byrne

Almost put Lydiate at 6. Phillips and Byrne were two of the most effective (positively) in the backline during their day. Webb and Davies close behind Phillips. Couldn't put North in as he's had a few too many drop-offs.

Mike Phillips was one of the best scrum halves (halfs?) we've ever had. He suffers maybe from having been our scrum half when we were a bit too rigid in our 'typewriter' style of play, which was hardly his fault, but he had it all. I remember his debut (or maybe it was his Six Nations debut) against France, and they couldn't handle him. It was as if they'd never come across a scrum half that strong before. He was making breaks for fun, and it didn't matter that they weren't clean breaks. And just think of the tries he scored in big games, not least Twickenham 2008 and at the 2011 World Cup. Throw in a Lions tour to South Africa where he played every minute of all three Tests (I'm sure that's right) and you've got a hell of a player.

by Guest Thu 17 Oct 2019, 6:45 pm

He was very effective but he had some fundamental flaws almost from his first game through to the last. Peel had a different spark and was better at the basics, for me. Webb's probably the most well rounded, Gareth Davies the most electric. Tomos Williams has the potential to be better than all of them, looks like he has the full skillset. Hopeful for Kieran Hardy as well, should have a long test career ahead of him.

by Guest Sun 20 Oct 2019, 9:35 pm

Well, we're in the semi finals, which I think is what we all hoped for pre-tournament.

Could this tournament have gone better? 5 wins, beating Australia, in the SF.

Well, yes. Seemingly looking tired and a little bit out of ideas v France - either not starting wll, or not finishing well, also. No 80 or even 60 minute performances.

Pre-tournament injuries to Anscombe, Faletau, Ellis Jenkins, Cory Hill, and Rhys Webb and Warburton ruled out, has left us thin where we were hoping to be well stocked 18 months ago. If we're also struggling with Navidi and JD2 looking a bit ropey, that gives almost no wiggle room to anyone suffering with knocks, like Parkes.

The lack of rotation in the team, having seemingly built both depth and a sense of jeopardy for underperforming, is perhaps hurting us. The first team has now effectively played 4 games in 4 weeks, with 2 more in 2 to come. Some even doubled up for an effort against Uruguay, which will make it hurt even more. Genuine depth - if we could rely on the likes of Hallam Amos, Aled Davies, Bradley Davies etc. to perform to test level standard - would have helped us out a lot with rotation v Georgia and Fiji, but sadly we've had to flog some players, and it doesn't even appear that the first team is fully firing.

It's hard to see us getting to the final based on performances alone, but the Boks aren't infallible. I imagine another heroic effort where we match their standards is in the offing, rather than going out and dominating.

But it does feel like we're due something special this world cup. In fact, this season/year. I'm not sure we've played better than the England game, and that was hardly top level stuff. If that games was 4th gear, as was Australia, then today felt like 1st gear in attack and third gear up front.

We need to be in 4th and even 5th to beat the Boks - they might lose, as has happened in the past, but just think they have enough threats in the likes of Mapimpi etc. who can open up and cause havoc from half chances. But it's more their bulk up front that looks the difference.

Anyway, Grand Slam, SF of the RWC - it does feel the missing ingredient to this side is there. But when you consider the rugby played domestically in Wales - just look at all 4 regions and compare it to the Super Rugby franchises, or even the English Premiership - then you have to say we're overachieving. And although I'd like to see a few more athletes in the team - Scott Williams and Aaron Shingler spring to mind - we can't be too unhappy if we miss out on the final, all things considered.

But, another week, another game. There's always a chance.

by Taylorman Mon 21 Oct 2019, 8:34 am

’But when you consider the rugby played domestically in Wales - just look at all 4 regions and compare it to the Super Rugby franchises, or even the English Premiership - then you have to say we're overachieving.’

We’ve only got five. Not a big difference.

by maestegmafia Mon 21 Oct 2019, 8:47 am

miaow wrote:
Anyway, Grand Slam, SF of the RWC - it does feel the missing ingredient to this side is there.

I don’t think england, SA or the AB fan care about how they win so why should we. Not losing is all that counts.

The regional game in wales is a different entity to the national side. Wales haven’t developed the infrastructure other nations have, how can e we don’t have the wealth of the nations we are competing against.

Compare Leicester to Swansea, both have top rugby and football teams! In Leicester there are enough sports fans to be able to fill both home teams games and more. Most equivalent fans in Wales couldn’t afford either.

by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Oct 2019, 10:43 am

Taylorman wrote:’But when you consider the rugby played domestically in Wales - just look at all 4 regions and compare it to the Super Rugby franchises, or even the English Premiership - then you have to say we're overachieving.’

We’ve only got five. Not a big difference.

Don't be daft. The 5 franchises are equivalent to some international teams. Then there's the provincial set-up below that, Canterbury, Auckland, Southland, etc. Those are all geared towards the franchise teams which compete in Super Rugby so they don't really compare to that. Add in NZ has more players, some great athletes (albeit not all of them from NZ), and some naturally gifted football players; even the Kiwi's I played with at senior level were always very knowledgeable and very good players.

Ireland's set-up might be more similar to that of NZ.

by **RiscaGame** Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:07 am

Josh Navidi ruled out of the last two games. Replacement is probably going to be a back.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:10 am

That's a blow. Any news on Wainwright? Seemed to be struggling with his ankle.

by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:15 am

Has to be a centre surely. Possibly a winger if they see North at 13 - which isn't a bad shout because he's been fairly ordinary to sometimes useless on the wing in this tournament.

by maestegmafia Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:39 am

My money is on Scott Williams being called out. Or Gav

by **Afro** Mon 21 Oct 2019, 11:42 am

Scott Gibbs

by maestegmafia Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:17 pm

Afro wrote:Scott Gibbs

Would work!

Alan Bateman’s still playing a decent game too.

by **Afro** Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:20 pm

What's Paul Thorburn's boot like these days?

I always tag the Springboks as likely to give away more than the average number of penalties. probably completely unfair, but anyway, Thorburn's long range kicking could be useful

by maestegmafia Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:27 pm

Afro wrote:What's Paul Thorburn's boot like these days?

I always tag the Springboks as likely to give away more than the average number of penalties. probably completely unfair, but anyway, Thorburn's long range kicking could be useful

Apparently only nine penalties a piece vs Japan, though it seemed like they gave away triple that yesterday. They conceded 9 to New Zealand’s 5 in their opening game.

I thought discipline seemed to be an issue with the Boks yesterday.

by **Afro** Mon 21 Oct 2019, 12:31 pm

In my mind I have them as a giving away a lot of penalties, but never actually looked at the stats to back it up/disprove it.

9 against Wales, get Thorburn in, that's a 27 point headstart

by maestegmafia Mon 21 Oct 2019, 2:10 pm

Afro wrote:In my mind I have them as a giving away a lot of penalties, but never actually looked at the stats to back it up/disprove it.

9 against Wales, get Thorburn in, that's a 27 point headstart

Thorburns on the back burner in case Halfpenny can’t make it and Jenks can’t get his baddie ankle fixed.

by Old Man Mon 21 Oct 2019, 2:15 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
Afro wrote:What's Paul Thorburn's boot like these days?

I always tag the Springboks as likely to give away more than the average number of penalties. probably completely unfair, but anyway, Thorburn's long range kicking could be useful

Apparently only nine penalties a piece vs Japan, though it seemed like they gave away triple that yesterday. They conceded 9 to New Zealand’s 5 in their opening game.

I thought discipline seemed to be an issue with the Boks yesterday.

Most of those penalties were when SA was on attack. Not kickable opportunities.

by **Afro** Mon 21 Oct 2019, 2:21 pm

Old Man wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
Afro wrote:What's Paul Thorburn's boot like these days?

I always tag the Springboks as likely to give away more than the average number of penalties. probably completely unfair, but anyway, Thorburn's long range kicking could be useful

Apparently only nine penalties a piece vs Japan, though it seemed like they gave away triple that yesterday. They conceded 9 to New Zealand’s 5 in their opening game.

I thought discipline seemed to be an issue with the Boks yesterday.

Most of those penalties were when SA was on attack. Not kickable opportunities.

Unless you're Paul Thorburn

by mikey_dragon Mon 21 Oct 2019, 3:03 pm

So what should the back-row be now? Navidi is irreplaceable, exceptional flanker that can fill in at 6,7,8. You could put Wainwright to 8 again I guess, if you rate his control on the back of the scrum? It's probably as good as Moriarty's right now but his isn't great. Another thing, Moriarty shouldn't be in the starting team for me. There's still the inconsistent performances plus that YC. I think Shingler should come back in to the starting XV. Either have Wainwright on the bench as the super-back-row sub or start him at 8.

Also tempted to shift North somewhere, infield or on the bench. Halfpenny at 15 with Adams and Williams on the wings, wingers who actually look for work.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 21 Oct 2019, 3:06 pm

I'm a big fan of Aaron Shingler, but I'm not sure the coaches would to bring him into the starting XV for a World Cup semi final. Having said that, he would add some footballing ability to our back row that we've lacked in Faletau's absence.

by Guest Mon 21 Oct 2019, 3:09 pm

Taylorman wrote:’But when you consider the rugby played domestically in Wales - just look at all 4 regions and compare it to the Super Rugby franchises, or even the English Premiership - then you have to say we're overachieving.’

We’ve only got five. Not a big difference.

Genuinely, can you stay away from just ONE thread that isn't about NZ. Literally don't want to discuss NZ. At all. It's a Welsh thread. Given your posting history, and why you're here - go away please. Thank you.

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