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Wales RWC 2019 thread Number II

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Post by maestegmafia on Wed Sep 18, 2019 12:46 pm

First topic message reminder :

WALES’ 2019 RWC SQUAD:

Forwards: Jake Ball, Adam Beard, Rhys Carre, James Davies, Elliot Dee, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Wyn Jones, Dillon Lewis, Ross Moriarty, Josh Navidi, Ken Owens, Aaron Shingler, Nicky Smith, Justin Tipuric, Aaron Wainwright.

Backs: Josh Adams, Hallam Amos, Dan Biggar, Aled Davies, Gareth Davies, Jonathan Davies, Leigh Halfpenny, George North, Hadleigh Parkes, Rhys Patchell, Owen Watkin, Liam Williams, Tomos Williams.

Pool D

AUSTRALIA, WALES, GEORGIA, FIJI, URUGUAY

Match 1

Australia vs Fiji... Sapporo Dome... Saturday, September 21... 5.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 2

Wales vs Georgia... City of Toyota Stadium... Monday, September 23... 11.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 3

Fiji vs Uruguay... Kamaishi Recovery Memorial Stadium... Wednesday, September 25... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 4

Georgia vs Uruguay... Kumagaya Rugby Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 5

Australia vs Wales... Tokyo Stadium... Sunday, September 29... 8.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 6

Georgia vs Fiji... Hanazono Rugby Stadium... Thursday, October 3... 6.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 7

Australia vs Uruguay... Oita Stadium... Saturday, October 5... 6.15am BST... (ITV)

Match 8

Wales vs Fiji... Oita Stadium... Wednesday, October 9... 10.45am BST... (ITV)

Match 9

Australia vs Georgia... Shizuoka Stadium Ecopa... Friday, October 11... 11.15am BST... (ITV 4)

Match 10

Wales vs Uruguay... Kumamoto Stadium... Sunday, October 13... 9.15am BST... (ITV)


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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:32 pm

I left Scott Williams out as he looks gash, but he'll probably be in contention for selection. I'll add him to "Other bets".

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:35 pm

For the pack I have a feeling that Pivac could bring back the Scarlets boyo's in the front-row, assuming that he rests the top players. I'd definitely use this game for returning injured players too though.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:09 pm

Awful for both players.

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:06 pm

bsando wrote:Shame about JD2, he'll be a big loss for Wales in the 6N. Who is likely to replace him?

Scott Williams is the obvious choice but 13 is a big weakness for Wales.

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:08 pm

lol, 'gash'.

remember when tipuric was gash as well? remember when jonathan evans, nic cudd, lewis evans, and ashton hewitt were all welsh stars cruelly overlooked?

not sure there's a worse 'serious' judge of rugby on this forum, still, than meici.

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 5:11 pm

If Pivac wants to really test out the youth, other options are Millard - who played on the wing last week - and Corey Baldwin who at 21 looks a real prospect, but maybe a bit too soon for him.

I wonder if Pivac will use Jonah Holmes at all or whether he'll just be a Gatland stop gap. He could end up becoming useful to Wales over the next few years. I don't see him as any worse than Amos tbh, and following the RWC, Amos has probably played himself out of the 6Ns squad.

Might be worth another look at Luke Morgan and Steff Evans again. Morgan has the blistering pace you need at this level, and Steff Evans is obviously the kind of tricky player we lack.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:15 pm

Coaching England was a prospect that enticed him, he says, during his spell at Wasps (2002-2005): “Definitely at that stage, at some time it would have appealed to me. I went through an exercise in my mind and looked at the two squads at this World Cup and thought - how many of our players would make the England squad, and I thought - maybe eight or nine.

“How many would have started? I’m not too sure. Our guys gave us everything, yet there’s probably 10 or 15 England players who didn’t make the England squad who would possibly be good enough for our squad as well. That’s a testament to the Welsh boys in how much they gave.

Taken from an interview Gatland did for the Telegraph. Some saying that he is downplaying the abilities of Welsh players to puff up his coaching abilities. Others that this was a fair reflection and that it just shows that Wales have punched above their weight under him.

I am nervous about posting this in case it causes a cross border bun fight, but what do you think? (Please, please, please debate this politely).

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:20 pm

Scott Williams is playing gash right now, just like his team. Miaow must have some big crush on him. I don't ever recall saying Tipuric was gash, nor the rest of what you're saying in that context right there. I do remember saying Priestland and James Davies were gash though, something you still throw your toys over.


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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:23 pm

I think it's fair but also, in hindsight, I'm disappointed at the media campaign Gatland seemed to play over the RWC, and now in the aftermath. His comments after the France game indicate he was something of a passive observer when, with Howley gone, I would have hoped he'd step in to the breach.

You can't be too critical as I do believe Gatland was pinning all his hopes on throwing the book at the opposition in the final - rather than SF like England did - but SA just did a better job of grinding through the SF than Wales did. In hindsight - and even with the injuries - there just wasn't very much to Wales' gameplan at all, and ofc it didn't help not having Anscombe or a proper 12 option other than Parkes, but I thought this RWC was probably some of the worst attacking rugby Wales played between the 22s. Their pick and go game in the 22 was excellent, though, and McBryde has really come on as a coach.

But yeah, I do think Gatland was both happy to just reach the final and lose, whereas someone like Eddie Jones had put all his hopes on winning the RWC.

I think you could also see that in the warm up games with Gatland doubling up for the England game at home instead of rotating after beating them at HQ (which was the plan). He gets to say 'I got Wales to #1 in the world' rather than really preparing Wales well for the WC. I think back to 2011 and the tournament Wales went on then, and I feel this one paled in comparison in terms of freshness, heart, and desire, and that includes Gatland as well as the players.

But I do think that's picking at small weaknesses. I don't see a coach who could bring all those things as well as everything else Gatland brought to Wales. Just the nature of the beast if you look overseas: there will always be a 'bigger fish' if their heart isn't in it. I believe the same for the players, too - particularly someone like Ben Te'o, for instance. Those little bits of national pride still matter, I think, but as Dai Young doesn't want the job, there's no outstanding Welsh coaching candidate to take charge of the national team, sadly.

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:24 pm

"trumpy_dragon in shocking rugby call: no one surprised"

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:28 pm

miaow why do you continue to try and dominate the forum, and then post snide and petty remakrs at those that disagree with you? I'm sure you'll just repeat this back to me like a little child. Isn't it quite noticeable how miaow comes here to puff up his cheeks and bicker with a number of people? I also thought you were retiring, it's a shame the mods didn't retire you sooner because you continue to ruin the sensible discussion on this forum and tend to bring out the worst in people.

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:45 pm

if you feel dominated, i can only apologise.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:00 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Coaching England was a prospect that enticed him, he says, during his spell at Wasps (2002-2005): “Definitely at that stage, at some time it would have appealed to me. I went through an exercise in my mind and looked at the two squads at this World Cup and thought - how many of our players would make the England squad, and I thought - maybe eight or nine.

“How many would have started? I’m not too sure. Our guys gave us everything, yet there’s probably 10 or 15 England players who didn’t make the England squad who would possibly be good enough for our squad as well. That’s a testament to the Welsh boys in how much they gave.

Taken from an interview Gatland did for the Telegraph. Some saying that he is downplaying the abilities of Welsh players to puff up his coaching abilities. Others that this was a fair reflection and that it just shows that Wales have punched above their weight under him.

I am nervous about posting this in case it causes a cross border bun fight, but what do you think? (Please, please, please debate this politely).

So is he talking about now, or back in 2005?

It's something that has been mentioned before. It could be that Gatland (and others) believe that some Welsh regions don't sufficiently develop players to a high enough standard. He has a point, and it's probably why Wales can be slow starters.
I noticed you discounted Biggar from selection, so am I right in saying the baa-baa's game is outside the international window, hence no England-based players are available? I guess I can forget about Faletau for now then.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:36 pm

There is no international window this Autumn, so no Biggar will not be released. I think that Wales have awarded caps in the past for this fixture, but will they this time?

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Post by Guest on Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:19 pm

Yes, it'll be a capped game. Every game is capped these days. The only one I can think of was the probables v possibles game in 2014 and maybe v the Chiefs in 2016. Before then? I imagine you might be struggling. The BaBas is a deserved cap.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:35 pm

This BaBas game so close after the RWC, is it necessary for Wales....what with so many player's injured and missing from the squad, surely it will be a no win for Wales?

Is it just to raise extra cash? or is it in a planned event?

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue Nov 12, 2019 10:02 pm

miaow wrote:Yes, it'll be a capped game. Every game is capped these days. The only one I can think of was the probables v possibles game in 2014 and maybe v the Chiefs in 2016. Before then? I imagine you might be struggling. The BaBas is a deserved cap.

OK. It has not always been a capped game. Looking it up, the 1996 match was a capped game, followed by 4 non-cap matches before 2011 was a capped game.

Most sides do not award caps against Barbarians, and as outlined Wales have vacillated, hence the question.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:05 am

I don’t think we know until Pivac requests it. 

I don’t think anyone else awards caps for these games either?

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Post by Pie on Wed Nov 13, 2019 5:00 am

TightHEAD wrote:So many injuries, Gatland really beasted these players before and during the RWC.

Whereas the English with few injuries clearly made no effort hence why they lost thumbsup

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:06 am

Its just a cash game, it make no sense for Wales or for player welfare. But the WRU needs to be solvent and the regions need them to fund central contracts....
No players based outside Wales, only feingebplayers from the WC squad, a few sitting our for injuries. You can cast it as a non game or as an excellent chance for fresh faces to get a feel for life in a red Jersey.
England entire summer tour is going to be pretty much like this.

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Post by RiscaGame on Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:27 am

I’m pretty sure the Barbarians game isn’t a capped fixture, this time.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:31 am

RiscaGame wrote:I’m pretty sure the Barbarians game isn’t a capped fixture, this time.

The womens match is listed as Wales XV (non cap) whereas the mens is listed as Wales. I'm pretty sure it is a full cap game, for all that really means.

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Post by Guest on Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:34 am

LondonTiger wrote:
miaow wrote:Yes, it'll be a capped game. Every game is capped these days. The only one I can think of was the probables v possibles game in 2014 and maybe v the Chiefs in 2016. Before then? I imagine you might be struggling. The BaBas is a deserved cap.

OK. It has not always been a capped game. Looking it up, the 1996 match was a capped game, followed by 4 non-cap matches before 2011 was a capped game.

Most sides do not award caps against Barbarians, and as outlined Wales have vacillated, hence the question.

Really? I assumed most sides considered them capped games. Hmm. In any case, when was the last non-cap game Wales played v the BaBas? 15 years ago?

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:57 am

miaow wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
miaow wrote:Yes, it'll be a capped game. Every game is capped these days. The only one I can think of was the probables v possibles game in 2014 and maybe v the Chiefs in 2016. Before then? I imagine you might be struggling. The BaBas is a deserved cap.

OK. It has not always been a capped game. Looking it up, the 1996 match was a capped game, followed by 4 non-cap matches before 2011 was a capped game.

Most sides do not award caps against Barbarians, and as outlined Wales have vacillated, hence the question.

Really? I assumed most sides considered them capped games. Hmm. In any case, when was the last non-cap game Wales played v the BaBas? 15 years ago?

I think Barbarians have only played 13 capped matches. Wales are the only Tier 1 side to award caps for these games. Fiji have played one capped game against the invitational side but are not awarding caps this weekend.

I had not realised that Nigel Owens is scheduled to ref the game on 30th.

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Post by LondonTiger on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:21 am

Quite a few articles online now questioning the selection of JD2 for a meaningless 3/4 playoff when heavily strapped and supposedly injury already known about.

Thinking back to it I believe that the only fit back not involved was the 3rd SH (Aled Davies?). Playing Sunday and then Friday it was always going to be hard to cover for any additional injuries and for me shows up the pointlessness of that playo-off fixture more than anything else.

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Post by bsando on Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:32 am

Willis Halaholo can play for Wales now can't he? Could be a good one for the baa baa's match.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Wed Nov 13, 2019 3:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Quite a few articles online now questioning the selection of JD2 for a meaningless 3/4 playoff when heavily strapped and supposedly injury already known about.

Thinking back to it I believe that the only fit back not involved was the 3rd SH (Aled Davies?). Playing Sunday and then Friday it was always going to be hard to cover for any additional injuries and for me shows up the pointlessness of that playo-off fixture more than anything else.

Have to agree. Both centre carried knocks onwards from the early rounds, and to some of our most vital players. I think an increase in squad size should help, and it should be granted given the amount of rugby being played.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:34 pm

Have just seen on bbc sport, that Halfpenny will be fit to face BaBas on the 30 of november.
Surely he should be rested after his concussion in the RWC? 

Is it worth risking his health for a none important game?

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Post by Pie on Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:30 pm

No I really want to see Pivac use this game as a pure selection opportunity pre 6 nations. Lets get Griffiths and John in, McNicol etc with a 50/50 experience v development.

Clearly its a good opportunity for Evans and Davies at 10.

Over the next RWC cycle I'd really like to see 3/4 players brought on in each position as for some reason we suffer with so many injuries at RWC and it holds us back. If we'd fielded Faletau, Anscombe, Navidi, Hill, Ellis, Liam WIlliams and a fit JD2 I think we would have got further than we did and we need to build our 2nd and 3rd string up so that we dont feel the loss of our outstanding 1st up options which seem to come thick and fast at RWC.


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Post by Guest on Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:33 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Quite a few articles online now questioning the selection of JD2 for a meaningless 3/4 playoff when heavily strapped and supposedly injury already known about.

Thinking back to it I believe that the only fit back not involved was the 3rd SH (Aled Davies?). Playing Sunday and then Friday it was always going to be hard to cover for any additional injuries and for me shows up the pointlessness of that playo-off fixture more than anything else.

The damage was done v Fiji. In reality playing him against NZ did nothing, he still needed surgery, they strapped him up and got him through the SA 5 games before, it wasn't exactly a big issue. He was always going to be out for most of the season irrespective of whether he played.

However, I think in a wider sense, there's a failing there in not trusting Scott Williams or Owen Watkin or even Jamie Roberts to replace one of the starting options. Gatland did really, really well with depth up until the final 9-12 months with Wales, where he just 'stuck'. Eddie Jones reinvented the team, particularly the back ups, during the warm ups, and II think there was a middle ground for Wales. I think Lloyd Williams or even Hardy would have been better options than Aled, I think there was a clear case for Scott Williams or blooding Watkin in more than just the Italy and 3rd string Irish game, and taking Holmes over Amos - and possibly the third 9 - would have freed up room for another player somewhere. The only place Gatland really did that was in the props, and as good as Carre was against France, he took a beating in the scrums and missed the tackle that led to the try against SA.

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Post by Guest on Wed Nov 13, 2019 9:40 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Have just seen on bbc sport, that Halfpenny will be fit to face BaBas on the 30 of november.
Surely he should be rested after his concussion in the RWC? 

Is it worth risking his health for a none important game?

Given that the Scarlets are also playing I'd personally rather see him rested/back with his region. If Johnny Mac (JMac from now on) is going to be capped then you really, really don't need two Scarlets 15s in the team. A bit of common sense is needed not to completely f over the regions in what is ostensibly a glorified showpiece event. I can see the need for Parkes, but not Halfpenny, personally. Liam Williams is obviously out but it might be worth starting with JMac and having Amos on the bench. Let 1/2P play for the Scarlets

bsando wrote:Willis Halaholo can play for Wales now can't he? Could be a good one for the baa baa's match.

Interesting one. This game will be a good indication of what vision he has for the midfield and the game he wants to play. I think he'll play Scott Williams at 13, personally, over Watkin, with JD2 out. Pivac was always a fan of Scott. But if he goes for Haloholo, that shows he's looking at a very different gameplan to Gatland.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Nov 14, 2019 3:24 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
miaow wrote:Yes, it'll be a capped game. Every game is capped these days. The only one I can think of was the probables v possibles game in 2014 and maybe v the Chiefs in 2016. Before then? I imagine you might be struggling. The BaBas is a deserved cap.

OK. It has not always been a capped game. Looking it up, the 1996 match was a capped game, followed by 4 non-cap matches before 2011 was a capped game.

Most sides do not award caps against Barbarians, and as outlined Wales have vacillated, hence the question.

The decision to award caps for the Barbarians game was a sop to Martyn Williams, who would otherwise ended his international career on 99 Wales caps. He's a legend regardless, but I'm still surprised he accepted it.

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Post by LordDowlais on Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:06 pm

I posted this on the injury thread, but it might be more suitable for this one:-

Gatland is leaving at precisely the right time. Comparisons can be made with when Dalglish left LFC or when Ferguson left Man UTD.

For me, Gatland has left when we have an aging, albeit a very good aging captain, aging centers, and a few other players soon to be passed their prime.

I have said this a couple of times on here, but I really think Wayne Pivoc has a lot of work to do with Wales going forwards. Who do we have ?

By the time the next world cup comes around, players like AWJ, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Justin Tipuric, Josh Navidi, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Gareth Davies, Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny, Ken Owens, Dan Biggar to name a few, would be in the twilight of their careers.

So, do we have players of equal caliber at the regions to step up ?

Tomos Williams, Owen Watkin, Seb Davies, Aaron Wainwright, Owen Lane, perhaps, but it's not enough. We could all reel off some youngsters with potential, but who do we have ?

Also, Wayne Pivoc is going to want to put his own stamp on things, he is going to want his own style, his own methods, this does not happen overnight, it is going to be a tough few years I think. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but the way professional rugby is going in Wales at the moment does not really fill me with optimism, and the whole ball game needs re-vamping from bottom to top.

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Post by Taylorman on Thu Nov 14, 2019 8:13 pm

P.I.V.A.C (assume its a misspell (x2) given everything else is written perfectly thumbsup )

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri Nov 15, 2019 1:31 am

LordDowlais wrote:I posted this on the injury thread, but it might be more suitable for this one:-

Gatland is leaving at precisely the right time. Comparisons can be made with when Dalglish left LFC or when Ferguson left Man UTD.

For me, Gatland has left when we have an aging, albeit a very good aging captain, aging centers, and a few other players soon to be passed their prime.

I have said this a couple of times on here, but I really think Wayne Pivoc has a lot of work to do with Wales going forwards. Who do we have ?

By the time the next world cup comes around, players like AWJ, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Justin Tipuric, Josh Navidi, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Gareth Davies, Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny, Ken Owens, Dan Biggar to name a few, would be in the twilight of their careers.

So, do we have players of equal caliber at the regions to step up ?

Tomos Williams, Owen Watkin, Seb Davies, Aaron Wainwright, Owen Lane, perhaps, but it's not enough. We could all reel off some youngsters with potential, but who do we have ?

Also, Wayne Pivoc is going to want to put his own stamp on things, he is going to want his own style, his own methods, this does not happen overnight, it is going to be a tough few years I think. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but the way professional rugby is going in Wales at the moment does not really fill me with optimism, and the whole ball game needs re-vamping from bottom to top.

Well done for spelling Tipuric right. Try learning why Dalglish left Liverpool though. That’s highly ignorant.

You name Wainwright, but who would’ve named him as a regular player before the WC just gone? None of who you name were in the last WC cycle. If we are reforming the game anyway, then it’s time your club stopped paying players to win a league for a start, as you’re not helping Team Wales either, or you wouldn’t have signed Pete the Meat and so on.

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Post by Guest on Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:47 am

Jamie Roberts talking about wanting to still play for Wales. Seems highly unlikely now. Jack Dixon might be the more obvious choice for a crashball/physical centre. Roberts' time was Japan - he even flew out there at Bath's behest to work as a pundit 'just in case' for the group games. Have to feel for him a bit as he's a player who clearly cares, clearly gave his all, and clearly isn't ready to let go, but I cannot see how he fits in to Pivac's plans unless Parkes get injured and we've got the first 2 centres out for the season.

Weird to think Roberts started as a full back/winger as well. Particularly when he often looked like a carthouse blindside flanker playing at centre. Can't imagine his career would have been half as successful without Gatland, who saw the potential and made that switch to 12 within the first few months in charge.

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:28 am

RiscaGame wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:I posted this on the injury thread, but it might be more suitable for this one:-

Gatland is leaving at precisely the right time. Comparisons can be made with when Dalglish left LFC or when Ferguson left Man UTD.

For me, Gatland has left when we have an aging, albeit a very good aging captain, aging centers, and a few other players soon to be passed their prime.

I have said this a couple of times on here, but I really think Wayne Pivoc has a lot of work to do with Wales going forwards. Who do we have ?

By the time the next world cup comes around, players like AWJ, Jonathan Davies, Hadleigh Parkes, Justin Tipuric, Josh Navidi, Jake Ball, Bradley Davies, Gareth Davies, Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny, Ken Owens, Dan Biggar to name a few, would be in the twilight of their careers.

So, do we have players of equal caliber at the regions to step up ?

Tomos Williams, Owen Watkin, Seb Davies, Aaron Wainwright, Owen Lane, perhaps, but it's not enough. We could all reel off some youngsters with potential, but who do we have ?

Also, Wayne Pivoc is going to want to put his own stamp on things, he is going to want his own style, his own methods, this does not happen overnight, it is going to be a tough few years I think. I hope I am wrong, I really do, but the way professional rugby is going in Wales at the moment does not really fill me with optimism, and the whole ball game needs re-vamping from bottom to top.

Well done for spelling Tipuric right. Try learning why Dalglish left Liverpool though. That’s highly ignorant.

You name Wainwright, but who would’ve named him as a regular player before the WC just gone? None of who you name were in the last WC cycle. If we are reforming the game anyway, then it’s time your club stopped paying players to win a league for a start, as you’re not helping Team Wales either, or you wouldn’t have signed Pete the Meat and so on.

If you just debated the topic like an adult, instead of trying to get some sort of oneupmanship over me all the time, you would enjoy this place a lot more. thumbsup

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Post by LordDowlais on Fri Nov 15, 2019 8:32 am

Also, I know why Dalglish left LFC, and I know all about his stress with the Hillsborough disaster, and the fact that he went to every single funeral. If you are too arrogant to not take your pig headedness out of the way for one minute, you would see that I made a comparison that both are leaving behind a team with aging players, I did not say that is why they are leaving though.

But never mind, carry on with the personal attacks. thumbsup

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri Nov 15, 2019 12:10 pm

Who do we think Gatland was referring to about he had his suspicions that a player was doping?
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Post by Pie on Fri Nov 15, 2019 5:30 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Who do we think Gatland was referring to about he had his suspicions that a player was doping?

Who cares but you

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:40 pm

Pie wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Who do we think Gatland was referring to about he had his suspicions that a player was doping?

Who cares but you

That Gatland put it in his book and talked more about it in the press launch suggests he or his publishing company believe plenty will be titillated.

Personally I feel it is an awful decision by Gats to put the story in his book. He accepts to having no direct knowledge, but includes it for the publicity.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:50 pm

Yeah, golden rule is to have one outlandish, previously unheard of item that grabs attention pre launch. Ooh, this is new.... a shame they need to do that, as if his story isn’t worth buying as it is.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:51 pm

I see Sam Warburton is joining the Wales coaching staff....Is this a good move by Pivac, or is it scraping the barrell?

Good player's do not necessary become good coaches.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri Nov 15, 2019 6:53 pm

His Knowledge base alone probably has value,plus he’s been removed from the scene for a while, has had a chance to reflect from the outside. Could do worse.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri Nov 15, 2019 7:01 pm

Warburton is the technical advisor/defence breakdown, and Hayward is named defence coach.

Warburton knows his stuff but is this the place to be upskilling him? I guess we'll wait and see. The Hayward appointment is a shocker.

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Post by Guest on Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:00 pm

I like it. If nothing else Warburton's too good to be missing from the game. 18 months out and now back in to the coaching side of things. My worry is he's got the Jonny Wikinson mindset, and that might not make him the best coach. But have to wait and see. The game adapts and changes and what worked at the breakdown for Sam 2 years ago looked largely irrelevant in Japan, for instance, where it was basically a free for all.

He could be a great coach.

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Post by The Oracle on Sat Nov 16, 2019 7:55 am

There’s never a guarantee that an ex player will make it as a top class coach. Not many top players seem to go on to be successful as a top level coach (I.e. international head coach with lots of silverware). Some but certainly not lots. Coaching is like teaching and as such ex players need the right temperament, teaching abilities and qualities, etc. It’s just not for some, even if it seems like the obvious career path post-rugby. I think I remember reading somewhere that to make it as a top class international player (in any sport) requires a certain selfishness and and inward-looking approach at the expense of others around them, whereas coaching is almost the opposite.

Thinking about it, some of the best international coaches in recent times either didn’t make it to the top or had very limited playing experience there. Maybe that’s what drives them on at international level. Graham Henry, Steve Hansen, Gatland, Eddie Jones, Schmidt, Cheika, now Pivac too......... only Gatland played at the highest level, and all of those games were non-capped internationals. Looking across to football and the likes of Jose Mourinho, Arsene Wenger, Alex Ferguson were not internationals.

So long story short.... it might work. It might not! I’d imagine he’d command respect with the players, which is a good starting point (not so sure Hayward will be able to do the same); he seems to be a good communicator; he’s got current and relevant experience of being a pro rugby player. Time will tell.
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Post by Old Man on Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:14 am

Rassie Erasmus, Nick Mallet both were Springboks who are good international coaches

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Post by Gooseberry on Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:38 am

Is Pivac one of the best international coaches of recent times Oracle?

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Post by Guest on Sat Nov 16, 2019 10:09 am

Warburton's hardly got a massive job. He's basically got the same role as Neil Jenkins but in a different position. Easy ot overthink this.

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