Wasps 19/20

I'm going to try and do one of these to give me somewhere to vent about Wasps through this season...

So the squad is:

Biyi Alo, Jack Owlett, Kieran Brookes, Jeff Toomaga-Allen (tighthead-props)
Tom Cruse, Tommy Taylor, Gabriel Oghre, Ashley Johnson, Alfie Barbeary (hookers)
Ben Harris, Simon McIntyre, Tom West, Zurabi Zhvania (loosehead-props)
Tim Cardall, Marcus Garratt, James Gaskell, Charlie Matthews, Joe Launchbury, Will Rowlands, Theo Vukasinovic, Thibaud Flament, Myles Edwards, Levi Douglas (locks)
Nizaam Carr, Ben Morris, Alex Rieder, Brad Shields, Sione Vailanu, Jack Willis, Tom Willis, Thomas Young (back-rows)
Dan Robson, Will Porter, Ben Vellacott, Sam Wolstenholme (scrum-halfs)
Lima Sopoaga, Billy Searle, Jacob Umaga, Jimmy Gopperth (fly-halfs)
Juan de Jongh, Malakai Fekitoa, Michael Le Bourgeois, Sam Spink, Ross Neal, Ryan Mills, Will Simmonds(centres)
Callum Sirker, Josh Bassett, Zach Kibirige, Paolo Odogwu, Marcus Watson (wingers)
Owain James, Rob Miller, Matteo Minozzi (full-backs)

And the coaching staff consists of:

DoR: Dai Young Lee Blackett
Attack and backs coach: Lee Blackett
Assistant attack coach: Martin Gleeson
Forwards coach: Andy Titterrell
Defence coach: Ian Costello
Transition coach: Matt Everard

So we got spanked in the PRC first round by Sarries, and picked up a bunch of injuries between that and the 7s preceding it. Not the best of starts. The injuries vary, but:

Ian Costello's update wrote:
Ben Vellacott sustained a tear to his ACL at the Premiership 7s and is scheduled to have surgery this week. He is estimated to return in 6-7 months.
Will Porter picked up a hamstring tear and will be absent for approximately 6-8 weeks.
Will Rowlands sustained a calf muscle tear and will be out for 6-8 weeks.
Simon McIntyre has undergone surgery to his groin and is expected back in approximately 6 weeks.
Jimmy Gopperth picked up a shoulder injury against Saracens and is expected to be out for 6 weeks.
Kieran Brookes failed a HIA assessment at the weekend and is currently going through the return-to-play protocol.
Lima Sopoaga and Malakai Fekitoa are back in full training and should be in contention for the Sale Sharks match.

So, we're down to 50% in the scrum half cupboard already. Massive to lose Vellacott for the season already - was excited to see him sharing the load with Robson.

Gopperth out *again*. Given his age, are we ever likely to have him back, fit and firing for more than a few games in a row? Really disappointing.

Obviously good news to have Sopoaga and Fekitoa available.

I still feel your pack looks pretty meh, especially teh tight 5.

Jack Willis due back "end of September-ish",
Thomas Young due to be back training, but no confirmation;
Brad Shields also due to be back in training now-ish.

LondonTiger wrote:I still feel your pack looks pretty meh, especially teh tight 5.

Launchers is a huge difference, and without him in the early part of the season we will definitely lack. I think we've got a pretty strong looking first choice tight five, but it remains to be seen as we go on.

Toomaga-Allen looks the business, but not seen him in action yet; Brookes picking up an HIA fail means he's got to pass the protocols. Tommy Taylor and Tom Cruse are top hookers. With McIntyre still injured a lot of the responsibility at loosehead falls on Zhvania. That said, there's a decent core there.

Second row is a difficult one to call - I'm not even sure who our first choice is alongside Launch. So yeah.

When everyone is fit in the back row, we've got plenty there.

Marcus Garratt forced to retire due to a knee injury sustained in May 2018. Disappointing for the lad, and the club; he had some potential.

Okay, time for an update here. We beat Saints in the second round of the PRC, and then lost to a strong Sale side in the third game. The side has been announced for the Worcester game, and it's starting to look a little bit like a first choice side for the upcoming start of the Prem.

Fekitoa appears for the first time, Sopoaga is on the bench. Searle and Willis back from injury.

Talking of injuries, the ACL curse strikes again: alongside Vellacott, Callum Sirker has damaged his while playing on (a one week!) loan at Ampthill, and is out for "a significant amount of time". Not good. Better news in that Thomas Young is "close" to being back.

Also, with Italy confirmed not to be leaving the pool stages of RWC, we should have Minozzi soon, which makes the already exciting back line look even more tasty.

The side to play Warriors:
Zhvania, Cruse, Brookes, Cardall, Matthews, Shields, Willis, Vailanu; Robson, Searle, Bassett, De Jongh, Fekitoa, Watson, Miller
Replacements: Taylor, Harris, Toomaga-Allen, Vukasinovic, Carr, Wolstenholme, Sopoaga, Le Bourgeois.

First hit-out of the season "proper", and it feels like it could be a long season once again. Beaten at home in almost trademark style, nearly doing enough but not quite, and largely being the architects of our own downfall.

Firstly, the upside and the stand-outs:

* Jack bloody Willis. He's a turnover machine, carrying beast, and reset everyone's expectations about how this Wasps back row should look when everyone is fit. Thomas Young will have a job getting back in. No-one did more to try and drag Wasps to a win, almost on his own.

* Zach Kibirige. Two brilliant finishes, one of which has to be an early contender for finish-of-the-year. Astonishing athleticism and body-awareness. Should have completed the hat-trick off a lovely cross-field kick, but couldn't quite manage it. Top stuff though.

The rest? A mixture of mediocrity and moments of magnificence, but the leaning towards the mediocre. Too many errors, too much indiscipline, no lineout to speak of. As last year promising moments were spoiled by basic errors - the clinicism displayed by Kibirige was absent elsewhere. Early doors, I know, but I think James Gaskell himself was culpable for thirteen of the points we gave away.

Early signs that Sopoaga and Fekitoa may combine nicely, Marcus Watson looked (mostly) good at full-back (although presumably only covering until Minozzi arrives), and Flament continues to impress from the bench.

Props to Irish, they played well. Their back three is an impressive array of young talent, and once they managed to keep the scrums up they enjoyed some success there. Difficult to say how much of their lineout success was down to their excellence or our abject drills, but we got bossed there.

Not going to ref blame, but I will suggest you can see why JP Doyle's not on the international circuit at the moment...

Bah.

Willis just picks up where he left off. Amazing talent. I'm sure Pooly will be pleased about Kibirige! Finally looked like the player alot thought he would be at newcastle. 2 fantastic finishes.

Agree JPD was poor for both sides - no surprises there. Willis was certainly your standout player for me. LI really struggled at the breakdown and scrum early on but looked good with ball in hand when they could hold on to it. Just hope Bath stay away from our latest batch of youngsters as they went well in the back 3 with some nice tries and one superb try-saving tackle. Shame LI spoiled it by then giving away a daft free-kick from the subsequent line-out which then led to a try.

Well this is a bit of good news. Wasps have finally managed to settle on a site for a new training base and facilities. Let's remember that a lack of such featured as a reason cited for Daly leaving (although we all know it was never really about that).

From the Wasps website:

"A new high-performance centre for Wasps Rugby is set to be created in Henley-in-Arden after the sale of a 13-acre site close to the town.

The Ricoh Arena outfit has not had a training base of its own since moving to the region in December 2014, but WCG (formerly Warwickshire College Group) has agreed a deal to sell the site on Stratford Road.

Contracts have been exchanged, subject to planning approval, and the deal will see a new training base for the first-team and Academy set-ups, complete with two grass pitches, an all-weather surface, skills area and gymnasium.

The Club will shortly be submitting all applications with the aim of operating from the site for the start of the 2020/21 season.

Stephen Vaughan, Chief Executive (Sports) at Wasps said: “It is no secret that we have been searching for the right location to create a high-performance centre that we can call home and the site in Henley- in-Arden ticks all the boxes.

“It is important to have long-term stability around our training base location and owning our own centre will bring a number of advantages to the Club.”

Wasps’ first-team and Academy currently train at Broadstreet Rugby Club and have been in discussions with Old Leamingtonians Rugby Club for several months about potentially creating a training base adjacent to its ground.

Vaughan added: “We have discussed the proposed move with our friends at Old Leamingtonians and Broadstreet and we look forward to maintaining strong working relationships with them as two strong local clubs.

“We would like to thank them for their understanding and co-operation, and they appreciate that the opportunity to have our own dedicated performance centre is the best option for the future of the Club.

“We will continue to liaise with WCG, Stratford-on-Avon District Council and other stakeholders throughout the planning process, in a move we believe will benefit not just Wasps but also the wider community.”

The site was previously a sports-focused college and preparatory school, but for the last three years has been run by WCG as a commercial sports centre.

Angela Joyce, CEO of WCG, added: “As part of Wasps’ search for a training ground it became apparent that our Henley-in-Arden site could provide them with a state-of-the-art performance centre.

“The proceeds will be invested in supporting our students across Warwickshire and Worcestershire, and importantly to also develop a new partnership with Wasps which will benefit both organisations going forward.

“We are also working with current sports centre clients and we hope they will use our sports facilities at other nearby sites.

“We believe this is a major opportunity for both organisations and we are looking forward to seeing the project progress and our partnership develop.”"

Injury news:

* Jimmy Gopperth (shoulder), Will Rowlands (calf) and Si McIntyre (hernia) are not far away and are starting to figure back into training and will be in for selection very soon.
* Michael Le Bourgeois (hip) came off at the weekend but it’s nothing long-term but we’ll see how he progresses.
* Charlie Matthews has a bit of a shoulder bump and Tom Cruse has got some bumps and bruises but they’re both training so we’ll see later in the week.

Good to hear Gopps is on the mend and his return is imminent. Only question has to be: how long until he gets injured again? I think we're in diminishing returns territory with his playing time now.

Just a bump for Booj, and no mention of Lima so I think we can assume he's fit for the weekend.

The rest on the mend, good stuff.

Jack Willis out this weekend with a "freak" laceration on his knee.

Presumably just putting a plaster on it and telling him to get on with it didn't pass muster.

It's a blow after his immense performance last weekend.

So some decent injury news for the must-win home game against Bath this weekend. I know, I know, it's the third league game of the season, and it's too early to describe it as "must-win"; but is it? The following two games are both away, at Sale and Exeter, and if we don't win at home on Saturday it could be a long, long slog. We were dreadful against Glaws.

Jimmy Gopperth being fit is a big one, the last component in the hoped for Sopoaga-Gopperth-Fekitoa midfield, and the oft-quoted reason for Sopoaga's underwhelming performances has been the lack of a distributor in the 12 shirt outside him. We shall see. Honestly, I'm pessimistic, both about Gopp's influence on Sopoaga, and the likelihood of Gopp's staying fit for more than a couple of games in a row.

Dai Young looks set to welcome back a trio of players with more than 300 appearances between them for Saturday's visit of Bath to the Ricoh Arena.

The Black and Golds have lost both of their opening Gallagher Premiership games but director of rugby young delivered a timely boost in Monday's media session.

Jimmy Gopperth, who played just five minutes of the opening Premiership Rugby Cup opener against Saracens last month before injuring his shoulder, is back in full training and in contention for selection.

Simon McIntyre, absent since the victory over Harlequins in the final game of the 2018/19 season with a number of different injury concerns, is also in contention to face Bath.

Will Rowlands completes the hat-trick of returning players. The second row, who was Wasps' players' player of the season last term, hasn't featured so far this season due to a calf issue.

There was also an update given on Dan Robson's condition 48 hours after he picked up a knee injury that hampered him in the 25-9 loss to Gloucester before being substituted.

"He wasn't training today but he is expected to fully train tomorrow," explained Young. "He could have a recurrence as the week goes on and not be right but we expect him to be 100 per cent right. He was going into a tackle, their knee hit his, a little bit of swelling on top of his knee towards the thigh. So a little bit of a knee come dead leg type of scenario."

Hooker Tom Cruse missed out against Gloucester due to bumps picked up against London Irish, with Gaby Oghre given his chance on the bench at the weekend.

Rinsure wrote:So some decent injury news for the must-win home game against Bath this weekend. I know, I know, it's the third league game of the season, and it's too early to describe it as "must-win"; but is it? The following two games are both away, at Sale and Exeter, and if we don't win at home on Saturday it could be a long, long slog. We were dreadful against Glaws. [/i]

We play Glaws this weekend (as the only team below you in the league. Already looking a painful season for us.

LondonTiger wrote:

Rinsure wrote:So some decent injury news for the must-win home game against Bath this weekend. I know, I know, it's the third league game of the season, and it's too early to describe it as "must-win"; but is it? The following two games are both away, at Sale and Exeter, and if we don't win at home on Saturday it could be a long, long slog. We were dreadful against Glaws. [/i]

We play Glaws this weekend (as the only team below you in the league. Already looking a painful season for us.

Yeah, I had a look, you mirror us in that you've got a home game (Glaws), and then two away games - Irish and Saints.

I'm largely of the opinion that we have he talent, but there is something awry in the coaching and direction which is holding us back. Whether it's quality of coaches, poor systems, or poor implementation - something isn't working. We've got All Blacks, Springboks, England and Italian internationals, along with a great young crop coming through. Yet we are poor, we were poor last season, and haven't improved this one, despite the longest preseason in ages.

Worrying times.

Of course we only have two more rounds before the European hiatus.

True enough, hadn't factored that in.

Minozzi making his debut for Wasps this afternoon. Hoping for a positive outcome to one rugby match today!

Jimmy Gopperth is back too, as is Will Rowlands. A case of the cavalry arriving to kick-start the season?

Honestly, I am half expecting Gopps not to make the 80. I really hope he does, but he's seemed so fragile of late.

So we went well against Bath; Rowlands scored a cracker, and Gopps lasted the distance, and his presence looked to assure Sopoaga, who had possibly his best showing for Wasps.

Sale away this Friday, that's a tough gig.

Injury updates:

- Jack Willis's lacerated knee is still healing, so not likely to figure
- Brad Shields' shoulder should be okay
- James Gaskell's shoulder is touch and go
- Still out: Thomas Young, Tom Willis, Ben Vellacott, Will Porter, Callum Sirker

Launch is back from RWC, but is not likely to be involved this week, despite being keen to be. Marcus Watson is back from watching his bro, and is in contention for selection.

Team should be announced tomorrow, I think.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Willis just picks up where he left off. Amazing talent. I'm sure Pooly will be pleased about Kibirige!  Finally looked like the player alot thought he would be at newcastle. 2 fantastic finishes.

I think you'll find most of our posts last season was total puzzlement as to why he wasnt a regular starter for us.

That was the meaning of the post. Looked good when injuries meant he played then disappeared again when the 'main' wingers were back. Always looked a good player.

Wasps in "make a profit" shocker!

Well, due to the £16M from CVC. Apart from that it's pretty much business as usual:

* Overall profit for the year was £4.6m, an increase of £14.3m from 2018
* Figure significantly boosted by £12.5m of funds received as part of the Premier Rugby
commercial deal with leading private equity and investment advisory firm CVC and a £4.1m
increase in the valuation of Wasps’ shareholding in Premiership Rugby.
* Operating loss has risen from £2.1m in 2018 to £5.2m in 2019
* Total revenue has increased year on year to £34.5m (2018: £32.8m)
* Number of exhibitions held at the Ricoh has risen from 39 to 49
* The amount spent per head on food and beverages per person at home rugby matches rose
slightly from £6.16 (2017/18) to £6.24 (2018/19)
* Hotel revenue per room available was £57 - £5 up on 2017/18
* Total liabilities are £89.9m up by £3.4m
* Total assets have dropped by £3.5m to £82.7m
* Consolidated senior net debt at 30 June 2019 of £31.4m (2018: £37.3m) mainly owed to
Wasps Finance
* In the current year the Group had net overdrafts totalling £Nil at the year-end (2018: £3.5m),
at Barclays Bank plc £Nil (2018: Overdrawn - £3.8m) and HSBC £Nil (2018: Overdrawn -
£0.3m)
* The Group has also been provided with a loan of £18.3m (2018: £18.6m) from Derek
Richardson. The loan is at 4% above Barclays Bank PLC base rate and is repayable after
giving 12 months and one day's notice. This is down by £290,000 on 2018
* Arena revalued to £51m (2018: £60m) with the next due for a formal revaluation in 2021
* Net debt as at 30 June 2019 the balance was £46.7m (2018: £55.8m), which comprised *
* Wasps Finance PLC £33.8m (2018: £33.8m), DA Richardson £18.4m (2018: £18.6m), HSBC
PLC £Nil (2018: £0.2m), asset finance £0.7m (2018: £0.1m) and bank overdrafts of £Nil
(2018: £3.5m), offset by cash balances held of £3.1m (2018: £Nil)
* Directors' and key management remuneration was £287,000, down from £390,000 in 2018
Highest paid director was paid £170,000

Valuation on The Ricoh is down due to there being no long-term sponsor locked in, with Ricoh's sponsorship coming to an end, and a replacement yet to be found. Fairly safe to think that should be locked up at some point, although at what revenue level remains to be seen.

Taken on their own, the results don't look great, but the continuing investment in things like the new training facilities and the ability to fill the Ricoh for events like next year's Rammstein concert, and the ability to attract top acts (Spice Girls, Springsteen, Bon Jovi) augurs well.

Basically, we rely on Derek Richardson. If he walks, we're in the sticky brown stuff. Provided he doesn't, we're okay. Much like most clubs, reliant on their owners.

Rinsure wrote:Wasps in "make a profit" shocker!


* Overall profit for the year was £4.6m, an increase of £14.3m from 2018

Maybe it's just me and my head is fuzzy this morning, but I can't compute that bit?

SecretFly wrote:

Rinsure wrote:Wasps in "make a profit" shocker!


* Overall profit for the year was £4.6m, an increase of £14.3m from 2018

Maybe it's just me and my head is fuzzy this morning, but I can't compute that bit?

As in, last year it was a loss of £9.7m.

No 7&1/2 wrote:That was the meaning of the post. Looked good when injuries meant he played then disappeared again when the 'main' wingers were back. Always looked a good player.

Ahh gotcha! Yes its incredible.

Rinsure wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

Rinsure wrote:Wasps in "make a profit" shocker!


* Overall profit for the year was £4.6m, an increase of £14.3m from 2018

Maybe it's just me and my head is fuzzy this morning, but I can't compute that bit?

As in, last year it was a loss of £9.7m.

Oh got it now! I was right...fuzzy head. Just couldn't work out the maths but didn't factor in losses.

So we go into the European break a point ahead of Tigers, and having shipped the greatest number of points in the league. We've conceded 104 over 4 games, averaging 26 per game.

That's poor, by any standards.

Despite the long pre-season and the Prem Cup prior to the start of the season proper, we still conceded 3 tries in R1, and 4 in R2. That's been reigned in and in R3 & R4 we conceded 1 try in each game, which is much better. I think it's fair to say you'll concede a try to most teams, unless you have an absolute blinder.

What's killed us in R3 & R4 is our discipline. We conceded 15 points from penalties to Bath in R3, and 21 to Sale in R4. Those are points we just gifted them. Yes, pressure can bring penalties, but absorbing pressure and maintaining discipline has to be a key defensive strategy.

It obviously isn't.

According to this piece, London Irish and Saints have conceded more penalties than Wasps in the first four games: https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/gallagher-premiership-penalties-conceded-statistics-17234733

They are much higher up the table though (7th and 2nd, respectively), having conceded far fewer points from their higher penalty count:

Wasps points conceded from pens: 12, 3, 15, 21
London Irish: 9, 0, 6, 6
Northampton: 18, 9, 3, 3

Something needs to happen in the coaching setup at Wasps. Our attack is no longer potent enough to rely on scoring more points than we concede, which is throwing our defensive failings into much sharper relief.

We tried to recruit Shaun Edwards, we failed. We know there is a problem, yet we persist with Costello. Joe Worsley is a popular option: currently the defense coach at Bordeaux-Begles who are 2nd in the Top 14 currently, and host Wasps this weekend...

Whatever happens, something needs to change. The return of Launch from RWC, and Jack Willis and Thomas Young from injury may add stability. It may not.

Dai Young needs to take a long hard look at his coaching staff, and maybe even his own position.

A lot does depend on how many of those penalties were deliberate and cynical ones to prevent a try scoring opportunity. We are perhaps the other way round in that only two sides have conceded less penalties than us, but we concede tries.

Rinsure: Joe Worsley left UBB last June prior going to help Georgia during the WC. He is now looking for a job (rumours pointing him towards Castres).

Entertaining game tonight with Wasps losing the game in the last few minutes ... both teams were a bit blowing hot and cold with some dodgy defending at times and also error prone (weather didn’t help for sure). Jack Willis was massive tonight (think he got MOM) with a huge shift in defense and a few turnovers . England certainly doesn’t lack exciting prospects at flanker. When Wasps scored after some Fekitoa magic I thought it was game over but Jalibert saved the day as usual.

whocares wrote:Rinsure: Joe Worsley left UBB last June prior going to help Georgia during the WC. He is now looking for a job (rumours pointing him towards Castres).

Thanks, I did not know that. If he's looking for a job...

whocares wrote:Entertaining game tonight with Wasps losing the game in the last few minutes ... both teams were a bit blowing hot and cold with some dodgy defending at times and also error prone  (weather didn’t help for sure). Jack Willis was massive tonight (think he got MOM) with a huge shift in defense and a few turnovers . England certainly doesn’t lack exciting prospects at flanker. When Wasps scored after some Fekitoa magic I thought it was game over but Jalibert saved the day as usual.

Yeah, was entertaining, but yet again a disappointment. Typically, I'd just slated Fekitoa's contribution to Wasps so far this season when he exploded through and put in Robson, much to my mate's amusement. Thought it was a much improved performance overall, there seemed to be a better attitude throughout. Once again, top shift from Willis (J), alongside a decent showing from his brother at 8. I hope we've got them locked up on decent long contracts.

The midfield was a battleground, and I was impressed with how Le Bourgeois held his own in such a competitive (and all international, bar him) area. Our 9 looked good, Searle was okay but I think cost us a try with a miss on a high ball. All in all, not bad - we just need to grind out the win!

Good bonus point win on Saturday, then. I watched it on the EPCR stream, as it wasn't on BT Sport, and quite enjoyed the experience - quite aside from the rugby. Televised, but no commentary or pundits, just the crowd noise and the ref mic. As close as you can get to being there, but still in the comfort of your lounge.

Wasps played well. Dominant up front - not unsurprisingly given the relative experience (and age) gap between the squads. I think the average age of the Agen pack was 23.3 years or so, and Jimmy Gopperth was 17 when their hooker was born! The fact that three of our four tries came from rolling mauls is telling, although it was good to see Fekitoa get his first for us (which also happened to be the bonus point try).

Worrying to see Launch limp off after 16 mins.

Flament is a find, and replaced him well, but it's a concern to have our talismanic captain back from RWC for all of 1 match before picking up an injury. Not seen any update on it as yet.

Anything else? Hmm. JW continues to be outstanding. His little bro gives workrate and drive around the park. Smashley looks to be having a mini-renaissance. Oh, and Umaga looked good - not sure it was a MotM performance given the armchair ride he was given, but he kicked well from hand deep into the corners, took the ball flat and to the line, and kicked well from the tee too. Some people are suggesting Sopoaga might be better at 12 for us, outside Umaga, giving us a Umaga, Sopoaga, Fekitoa midfield. Might be a shout, and might be the only way Lima will get back in at the moment!

We're not out of the running yet. Home games are key!

Launch has done his calf:

'It's his calf, he seems to have twinged it. Which is unfortunate but obviously let's hope that it's weeks not months. I've never seen Joe come off and it be a couple of days. I'd be very surprised if he's fit for next week, he's been hobbling about in there at the minute. It's just a muscle strain to the calf. Which is one of those things but it is disappointing.'

Bugger.

Good news: Launch has signed a new deal to stay at Wasps!

Bad news: we got humped by Exeter.

Meh news: Sopoaga responded to rumours of his departure by denying them.


Normal service resumed for the physio team at Wasps, with injuries once again mounting up. We've now got FIVE locks out injured, including Launch. Three didn't travel on Saturday, and our two starting locks both had to come off. Add that to the injury list containing Fekitoa, Juan De Jong, Thomas Young, Brad Shields, Ben Vellacott, Callum Sirker and Sione Vailanu.

Just looking at the squad in the OP, and updated it to take out Marcus Garratt (retired due to injury), and Ross Neal (released to go and play for Seattle in the US league).

Ho hum.

Simon McIntyre confirmed with concussion, his third this year. Retirement becomes a distinct possibility.

Young states they cannot afford to bring in any lock replacements.

Suggestions that planning permission for the new training facilities will be turned down.

Only good news for the Coventry boys is we are below them in the table.

Thomas Young back though: https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/thomas-young-wales-rugby-wasps-17353813

Also what happened with them moving training to Old Leamingtonians, did that happen? I used to play there briefly so was interested to see that on the table

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Thomas Young back though: https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/rugby/thomas-young-wales-rugby-wasps-17353813

Good news indeed. Add in the return to fitness of Fekitoa, Willis and Vailanu and the injury list doesn't look quite as bad.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:Also what happened with them moving training to Old Leamingtonians, did that happen? I used to play there briefly so was interested to see that on the table

I think there was a agreement, but no scope to develop the facilities, whereas the new site offers more scope for development. That said, there are objections from the local residents and users of the facility in its current incarnation. How this affects progress remains to be seen.

LondonTiger wrote:Simon McIntyre confirmed with concussion, his third this year. Retirement becomes a distinct possibility.

Yeah, he's only just come back from the last one too. Bad news, both for him and for the club.

LondonTiger wrote:Young states they cannot afford to bring in any lock replacements.

I noticed we were absent from any conversation about Nakarawa on his non-return to Racing, while Sale swooped in...

LondonTiger wrote:Suggestions that planning permission for the new training facilities will be turned down.

Not sure how this is progressing, but objections have certainly been raised by the residents and the users of the facility as it stands. What concessions Wasps may make in terms of design or availability may shape the discussion on this. It's by no means nailed on now, though.

LondonTiger wrote:Only good news for the Coventry boys is we are below them in the table.

Below us (along with Sarries), and playing worse even than we are, by all accounts. Wasps eyes are firmly fixed on the rear view mirror though, as you will surely hit your straps at some point.

To echo what I said on another thread, there's a lot of chatter around at the moment about Dai Young's position, and whether key changes need to be made sooner rather than later.

Not sure I agree, certainly not this far into the season. There is plenty of time. That said... last season we got all our points early doors, and then fell into freefall. This time around we've not picked up anything like as many yet, and look poor.

Can't blame the injury list, can look at the coaching and discipline. It's well documented that we tried to recruit both Borthwick and Edwards through the Summer, so it's not exactly a secret that the club know there is a coaching issue to be resolved.

How we do something about it? Who knows.

Another week, another defeat. The same old post-game rhetoric trotted out.

Couple of home games coming up next - the return leg against Edinburgh, then the "Christmas Cracker" against Harlequins. It's pretty simple, we need to win home games.

That said, I have no confidence we will.

I'm now getting to the point of wondering what the options are for Wasps. Something needs to change. It's been said - although I haven't verified it - that our decline correlates almost exactly to the presence of Costello on the coaching staff. Word on the street is that he is also the de facto manager, running training and so on, instead of Dai. If that's the case, then there's a pretty strong argument for relieving him of his position... but, and here's the big one, who do we bring in to replace him?

The same question applies if we talk about Dai's position. Who is available who will improve us?

Change for the sake of change might have a short term bump, but without a long-term plan, where would it leave us? We'll end up with a caretaker manager until the end of the season, and then what?

Worrying times.

OP updated again following the news that Alex Rieder has been forced to retire following more injury problems ("catastrophic knee issues" per the Wasps website).

Bad news for Alex, but fortunately for the club it's an area where we have significant strength in depth.

Dan Baugh - Wasps S&C coach - is leaving at the end of the season to take up a role at Dragons.

Second backroom departure in as many months, following our academy manager's move to join up with the RFU.

Can you level responsibility for our often lengthy injury list at the door of the S&C coach? It's an interesting one. He's been with us for six seasons, and I can't recall one where we didn't have an injury list as long as Launch's arm.

Are we looking at the beginnings of a back-room staff evolution? Obviously "sacking" coaches mid-season comes with a cost, whereas allowing them to leave at the end of the contract period is more economic - assuming the costs incurred by retaining their services don't include relegation, for example!!

Wasps snatch last gasp win away at Bristol!

Unexpected - I'd got Bris pegged to win by a couple of scores. Looked feasible at one stage, but Super Nemo rescued it at the end with a stunner.

Some top performances, but still a lot of work-ons throughout the side. A relief to get a win though, and the loser of Worcester v Irish today will be looking over their shoulder nervously. Big game next up for Wasps, home to Saints - can we build momentum against the league leaders?

Not to get carried away, but a lot of players owed the side a performance and stepped up. As close to a full team effort as we've seen for over a season.

Good things:

Jacob Umaga (Lima who?) controlling the game from ten, and his opening try was a touch of real class. Could have kicked better, three costly misses from the tee, and one kick out on the full sticks in the mind - but huge last-up hit in defence to dislodge the ball from the Bristol winger (Fricker?) when you'd have put money on them to score. Should keep the shirt.

Malakai Fekitoa is growing every game. Absolute boss of a performance, massive power in the carry, huge defensive hits, and a brilliantly taken try. Possibly at fault for Piatau's try, but largely lose-lose in that situation. Only concern is that he's trying too hard, but if that's it, I'll take it!

The back row - power, pace, and crucially depth. Willis continues to show how good he is, Young is getting back to something approaching his best (before an ugly looking facial injury), and Carr is deceptively quick and a terrier in defence. Even better, when Vailanu came on, Carr was released and came up with the crucial try. With Shields still to come back, and Willis jnr in the wings, we're looking good.

The less good stuff:

Robson looks slow between rucks, and ponderous when he gets there. Box kicking was loose - often too deep. I suspect that had we kept Simpson, or Vellacott not got that injury, then we'd be seeing Robson off the bench a lot more.

Inside centre... Booj is okay, but limited. Stripped of the ball in the run up to one try, but put Fekitoa through for his. Gopperth looked good when he came on, but at 37 how much longer can we rely on him?

The rest:

Minozzi was the best I've seen him for us, Watson and Kibirigie were busy - and wow, what a tackle by CP to stop Watson in the corner. Can't argue with that! (Luke Pearce missed the Bris player in at the side in the preceding ruck though, which led to the broken field play).

Still think we need a big, ugly lock, and a (big, ugly) twelve, but we're going in the right direction.

Amusing that Dai missed the denouement of the game while descending from his perch via the lift.

You could tell how much it meant to the lads. Cracking.

Happy New Year... Northampton!

How we managed to lose from that position, being in front and Saints being down to 13 men, is astonishing. Credit where it's due - well done to Saints for keeping going, and taking advantage of us giving field position away with scant minutes left.

Look, result aside it wasn't a bad performance across the board by Wasps. Our back row continues to shine, and Minozzi's try was a great example of how we can play. Fekitoa has really his his stride - the rip and offload for Watson's try was unbelievable.

Then we gift a try at the start of H2, Robson getting the box kick all wrong without the caterpillar protection prevalent in every other side, and Tom Wood being massive to get the block in. Robson's kicking from hand - and decision making in general (exquisite hands in the Minozzi try aside) - was very poor. Not sure what's going on, why we're kicking so much possession away from 9 (and our chasing is so damned poor!), but that needs looking at.

Ignoring Europe, our next block of three games is huge. Away at Worcester, then at Irish, and then home to Sarries. The latter two are 6N affected, and we have to take advantage of that!

A better performance, and if you'd offered us 7 points from Bristol and Saints we'd probably have snapped your hand off, but still disappointed.

Two wins from eight games? Not good enough, despite the renewed optimism.

Surprising team selection from Dai for the dead rubber game on Saturday, at the Ricoh. Pretty strong team, but I guess the intention is to build momentum and gel the team in advance of the big games coming up in the Prem.

Wales lock Will Rowlands is back, alongside Launch in the second row. Good to see Bassett back on the wing. Presumably guys like Thomas Young, Minozzi and Umaga are being rested.

Wasps (First-team appearances)
15 Rob Miller (109)
14 Zach Kibirige (13)
13 Malakai Fekitoa (11)
12 Jimmy Gopperth (90)
11 Josh Bassett (113)
10 Lima Sopoaga (35)
9 Dan Robson (109)
1 Simon McIntyre (163)
2 Tommy Taylor (60)
3 Jeff Toomaga-Allen (10)
4 Joe Launchbury (c) (144)
5 Will Rowlands (81)
6 Ashley Johnson (198)
7 Jack Willis (48)
8 Nizaam Carr (50)

Replacements
16 Gabriel Oghre (14)
17 Tom West (20)
18 Biyi Alo (5)
19 Thibaud Flament (10)
20 Sione Vailanu (13)
21 Will Porter (15)
22 Billy Searle (18)
23 Michael Le Bourgeois (27)

Rinsure wrote:Surprising team selection from Dai for the dead rubber game on Saturday, at the Ricoh. Pretty strong team, but I guess the intention is to build momentum and gel the team in advance of the big games coming up in the Prem.

Jesus, we were dreadful. Nilled at home by Bordeaux's second string, and lucky to get nil at that.

I watched it on the EPCR stream, and that's a couple of hours of my life I won't get back. At one point I texted my mate to ask him how much longer this rubbish had left to run! Apparently I could have been watching a very entertaining Harlequins game instead, but the things we do, eh?

Just an abject performance, at home, in front of paying fans. Not good enough, Wasps. Not by a long chalk.

That's not a bad side you put our either! I haven't seen any highlights, was it just that Bordeaux were very good? Or there was nothing to play for?

Honestly, it wasn't that Bordeaux were that good. We were just dreadful - handling error count was off the scale, and we gave away more turnovers than I could count.

Admittedly it was a dead rubber, but almost without exception there was no passion, no desire, no pride.

Changes need to be made - not just in playing personnel, but Sopoaga was awful, and we have to bring Umaga back in for next week.