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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 - Page 20 Empty Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Table

Pos
Team
Played
Won
Drawn
Lost
For
Against
Pts Difference
Bonus
Points
1
Northampton Saints
7
5
2
0
194
146
48
3
23
2
Exeter Chiefs
6
4
2
0
142
97
45
4
20
3
Gloucester Rugby
7
3
4
0
149
121
28
6
18
4
Bristol Bears
7
3
3
1
157
165
-8
4
18
5
Bath Rugby
7
4
3
0
139
145
-6
1
17
6
Worcester Warriors
7
4
3
0
122
144
-22
1
17
7
Sale Sharks
7
3
4
0
144
105
39
5
17
8
Harlequins
7
3
3
1
158
169
-11
3
17
9
London Irish
7
2
4
1
128
179
-51
2
12
10
Wasps
7
2
5
0
134
191
-57
3
11
11
Leicester Tigers
7
1
5
1
118
191
-76
0
6
12
Saracens
6
5
1
0
158
87
71
-32
-13


Bath
Last Season - 6th

Players in: Lewis Boyce (Prop), Christian Judge (Prop), Will Stuart (Prop), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Josh McNally (Second Row), Ollie Fox (Scrum Half)
Promoted from Academy: Miles Reid, Will Vaughan, Sam Nixon, Tom de Glanville, Will Britton, Jack Davies, Tom Doughty, Levi Davis promoted (X Factor permitting)

Players Out: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Paul Grant (Back Row), Luke Charteris (Second Row), James Wilson (Utility Back), Kahn Fotuali'i (Scrum Half), Jacques van Rooyen (Prop), Jack Wilson (Wing), Cooper Vuna (Wing), Anthony Perenise (Prop), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker), Max Lahiff (Prop)


Bristol Bears
Last Season - 9th

Players in: Dave Attwood (Second Row), Nathan Hughes (Back Row), Nicky Thomas (Prop), Max Lahiff (Prop), Tyrese Johnson-Fisher (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Sam Bedlow, John Hawkins, Toby Fricker

Players out: Nick Haining (Back Row), George Smith (Back Row), Nick Fenton-Wells (Back Row), Joe Latta (Second Row), Tusi Pisi (Fly Half), Sione Faletau (Prop), Jack Lam (Back Row)


Exeter Chiefs
Last Season: Runners Up

Players in: Stuart Hogg (Full Back), Will Witty (Second Row), Tom Price (Second Row), Stan South (Utility Forward), Jannes Kirsten (Utility Forward), Jacques Vermeulen (Utility Forward)

Players out: Santiago Cordero (Wing/FB), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Moray Low (Prop), Ollie Atkins (Second Row), Mitch Lees (Second Row)


Gloucester
Last Season: 3rd

Players in: Joe Simpson (Scrum Half), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), Chris Harris (Centre), Corne Fourie (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Charlie Chapman, Alex Seville, Alex Craig, Ciaran Knight, Tom Seabrook, Henry Walker

Players out: Paddy McAllister (Prop), Gareth Denman (Prop), Kyle Traynor (Prop) Tom Savage (Second Row), Gareth Evans (Back Row), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Henry Purdy (Centre/Wing)


Harlequins
Last Season 4th

Players in: Santiago Garcias Botta (Prop), Martin Landajo (Scrum Half), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Scott Baldwin (Hooker), Stephan Lewies (Second Row), Glen Young (Second Row), Will Evans (Flanker), Simon Kerrod (Prop), Tom Lawday (Back Row), Travis Ismaiel (Wing), Veriniki Goneva (Wing), Tevita Cavubati (Second Row)

Players out: Alofa Alofa (Utility Back), George Merrick (Second Row), Lewis Boyce (Prop), James Horwill (Second Row), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop), Tim Visser (Wing), Charlie Walker(Wing), Demitir Catrakilis (Fly Half), Mat Luamanu (Back Row), Luke Wallace (Flanker), Stan South (Second Row), Dave Ward (Hooker), Dave Lewis (Scrum Half), Ben Glynn (Second Row)


Leicester Tigers
Last season 11th

Players in: Jordan Taufua (Back Row), Noel Reid (Fly Half/Centre), Calum Green (Second Row), Jaco Taute (Centre), Tomas Lavanini (Second Row), Nephi Leatigaga (Prop), Charlie Clare (Hooker), Joe Thomas (Centre), Johnny McPhillips (Fly Half), EW Viljoen (Utility Back), Hanro Liebenberg (Back Row), Jordan Coghlan (Back Row)
Promoted from Academy: Tom Hardwicke, Joe Heyes, Sam Lewis, Jordan Olowefela, Tommy Reffell, Sam Aspland Robinson, Harry Simmons, Ben White

Players out: Matt Toomua (Centre), Mike Williams (Utility Forward), Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Mathew Tait (Utility Back), Will Evans (Flanker), Tom Varndell (Winger), James Voss (Second Row), Matt Smith (Centre), Gareth Owen (Centre), Michael Fitzgerald (Second Row), Brendon O'Connor (Back Row), Valentino Mapapalangi (Back Row), Fred Tuilagi (Back Row), Leonardo Sarto (Wing),  Joe Ford (Fly Half), David Feao (Prop), David Denton (Back Row), Ross McMillan (Hooker), Campese Ma'afu (Prop), Charlie Thacker (Centre)


London Irish
Last Season: Promoted

Players in: Allan Dell (Prop), Nick Phipps (Scrum Half), Curtis Rona (Wing), Sean O'Brien (Back Row), Sekope Kepu (Prop), Paddy Jackson (Fly Half), Waisake Naholo (Wing), Adam Coleman (Second Row), Ruan Botha (Second Row), Steve Mafi (Utility Forward), George Nott (Utility Forward)

Players Out: Josh McNally (Second Row), Ian Keatley (Fly Half), Brendan McKibbin (Centre), Mike Coman (Back Row), Tommy Bell (Utility Back), Topsy Ojo (Wing), Fergus Mulchrone (Centre), Luke McLean (Full Back), Sebastian de Chaves (Second Row), Ofisa Treviranus (Back Row), Greig Tonks (Utility Back),  Napolioni Nalaga (Wing), Sam Twomey (Second Row), Filo Paulo (Second Row), Manasa Saulo (Prop)


Northampton Saints
Last Season: 4th

Players in: Matt Proctor (Utility back), Owen Franks (Prop), Ryan Olowofela (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half), Michael van Vuuren (Hooker)
Promoted from Academy: Ehren Painter, Fraser Dingwall,  James Grayson,  Alex Mitchell,  Alex Moon

Players Out: Luther Burrell (Centre), Jamal Ford-Robinson (Prop), James Craig (Utility Forward), James Haskell (Back Row), Dominic Barrow (Second Row), Nafi Tuitavake (Wing), Ken Pisi (Centre)


Sale Sharks
Last Season: 7th

Players in: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Robert du Preez (Fly Half), Akker van der Merwe (Hooker), Lood de Jager (Second Row), Coenie Oosthuizen (Prop), Dan du Preez (Utility Forward), Jean-Luc du Preez (Back Row), Simon Hammersley (Full Back), Mark Wilson (Back Row)

Players Out: Andrei Ostrikov (Second Row), Mark Jennings (Centre), Alexandru Țăruș (Prop), Johnny Leota (Centre),  Paolo Odogwu (Wing), James O'Connor (Utility Back), Josh Strauss (Back Row), George Nott (Utility Forward)


Saracens
Last Season: Champions

Players in: Elliot Daly (Utility back), Rhys Carré (Prop), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Josh Ibuanokpe (Prop)
Promoted from Academy: Alistair Crossdale, Dominic Morris

Players out: Christopher Tolofua (Hooker), Sione Vailanu (Back Row), Hayden Thompson-Stringer (Prop), David Strettle (Wing), Henry Taylor (Scrum Half) Dominic Day (Second Row), Marcelo Bosch (Centre), Schalk Burger (Back Row)


Wasps
Last Season: 8th

Players in: Malakai Fekitoa (Centre), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Prop), Ben Vellacott (Scrum Half), Matteo Minozzi (Utility back), Sione Vailanu (Back row), Biyi Alo (Prop), Paolo Odogwu (Wing), Zach Kibirige (wing)
Promoted from academy:  Will Porter,  Callum Sirker,  Sam Spink,  Tom Willis,  Tim Cardall,  Gabriel Oghre,  Owain James, Jacob Umaga

Players out: Jake Cooper-Woolley (Prop), Nathan Hughes (Back row), Will Stuart (Prop), Elliot Daly (Centre), Joe Simpson (Scrum half), Willie le Roux (Full Back), Michele Campagnaro (Centre), Kearnan Myall (Second Row), Gabiriele Lovobalavu (Centre), Matt Mullan (Prop)


Worcester Warriors
Last Season 10th

Players in: Graham Kitchener (Second Row), Jono Kitto (Scrum Half), Melani Nanai (Wing), Ed Fidow (Wing)
Promoted from Academy: Andrew Kitchener,  Ted Hill

Players out:  Bryce Heem (Wing), Josh Adams (Wing), Darren Barry (Second Row), Wynand Olivier (Centre), Dewald Potgieter (Back row), Jack Singleton (Hooker), Jonny Arr (Scrum half), Carl Kirwan (Back row), Luke Baldwin (Scrum Half), Ben Te'o (Centre), Alafoti Fa'osiliva (Back row)


Last edited by LondonTiger on Sun 29 Dec 2019, 2:04 pm; edited 10 times in total

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Gallagher Premiership 2019/20 - Page 20 Empty Re: Gallagher Premiership 2019/20

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 12:11 pm

Predictions? Looking at the line-ups I think Sale will do Bristol. Both have expensively assembled squads for sure...

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Post by Heaf on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 1:43 pm

I've gone for Sale by 15 - maybe a bit bold?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 2:59 pm

Only looks one winner from the packs.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 3:43 pm

Bit of a walkover so far.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 4:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Bit of a walkover so far.

Sale have named the stronger team and they are doing the job so far.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 4:13 pm

Bristol have been truly awful as well and seeing midfield defence as optional.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 4:56 pm

Is Lloyd now having a run at 10 for Bristol?

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Post by Cumbrian on Sat 29 Aug 2020, 7:37 pm

It is really frustrating that for a free-to-air match Bristol decided to send out the kids. These games should be perfect for capturing new fans, but who wants to see one side take a massive beating whilst barely being able to string two passes together?
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Post by Heaf on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 12:30 pm

Just looked at the squads for LI v Sarries - this isn't going to be pretty ...

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Post by king_carlos on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 2:00 pm

Cumbrian and Heaf - Unless Gloucester have a shocker it's going to be the same for Gloucester 1st XV vs Tigers 2nd XV. It's just a futile exercise for all involved in my opinion.

I know these are unusual circumstances with the postponement, midweek games and Sarries having been relegated already. I do fear this is a sneak preview of a ringfenced Premiership though. Sides might not be rotated to this drastic an extent but clubs will naturally target home games and matches they view as winnable whilst effectively giving up on others.

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Post by Heaf on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 2:09 pm

And the problem that gives LI is everyone targets them as winnable ...

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 2:50 pm

Yeah good to have rugby back but the protocols on selection have led to some very 1 sided games. The current harlequins Northampton game is pretty well balanced at the moment and pretty decent game.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 5:14 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah good to have rugby back but the protocols on selection have led to some very 1 sided games. The current harlequins Northampton game is pretty well balanced  at the moment and pretty decent game.
We need competition. By all means, don't flog your players but you'd think, with all this time to think ahead, we wouldn't have had obvious mismatches as a showpiece for the league.


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Post by Heaf on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 5:59 pm

How have Glaws managed to throw away that huge lead ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 30 Aug 2020, 8:43 pm

Heaf wrote:How have Glaws managed to throw away that huge lead ...

George Ford effect. He's the only reason we stayed up the year Newcastle went down. He came on and just took control of the game after 35 minutes. Cipriani went from looking unplayable to barely playing. Youngs and Taufua also had a big impact. Roughly 170 caps plus an explosive Taufua should have a big impact on a game.

Unfortunately Tigers ran out of steam and Lloyd Evans try really killed us off. The Glaws backline looked very slick on the front foot.

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 2:04 pm

Damn forgot the match started at 1 but just tuned in to find Irish only down 12-26 so far - given the teams this is amazing so far ...

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 2:18 pm

OK scoreline going more as expected now ... although the officials missed two offences in the build up to Sarries last try ...

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 2:18 pm

Soundtrack today sounds strange too - more like a load of little girls ...

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:03 pm

Bath seem to be doing their best to throw this one away - some very poor decision making.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:14 pm

They may well be saved by the lineout after the first one by McIntyre.

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:30 pm

They're still fluffing their chances ...

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:34 pm

Absolute joke, the team who have fielded injured players are benefitting from uncontested scrums. Ref is having a laugh too when telling players hands off then to penalize them because the didn't is a yellow card.
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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:34 pm

Crazy throw back inside by Bath leads to a Wasps try ...

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:42 pm

Get in there
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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:46 pm

Better by Bath - can they now stop with the loose play and control the game more or will they play into Wasps hands again?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:50 pm

Game done now. Wasps been just about better. Why didn't bath contest the lineout?


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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:51 pm

More sloppy play from Bath ...

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:55 pm

I still can't get my head around the stupidity that if you score and thus a penalty try isn't awarded the offending team get away with it but if you don't then it's a pen try and a yellow ... makes no sense.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:56 pm

It's to stop the cynical play. Willis realised and let himself get marched back: underhill took the risk on not being seen and failed.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 4:57 pm

FARCE.

Once again a game ruined by uncontested scrums.

Oh and poor officials, Barnes was ok but he gets no help from weak touch judges missing forward passes and a TMO who sounded uninterested.
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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 5:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's to stop the cynical play. Willis realised and let himself get marched back: underhill took the risk on not being seen and failed.

But Barnes said it would have been a pen try if Bath hadn't scored so Bath in effect were penalised for scoring - that's just bizarre.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 5:02 pm

So underhill should have backed off and not fouled.

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 5:14 pm

Willis clearly fouled as well though ...

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 5:15 pm

Awesome play well done Wasps with all those injuries. Willis once again mom - are you watching EJs?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 5:18 pm

One prevented a try. One didnt. Pretty much like the old preventing a goal scoring op and pen in football. That has been changed to represent the view that you shouldn't be doubly punished. Laws are clear though. Think they both realised it but at that stage in the match underhill thought it was worth the risk.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 6:19 pm

I can't understand why teams are just throwing second teams out there with no chance of winning. Surely teams would be better to have played half full and half seconds over the course of the games. I know the mid week game was hard to manage but plenty poor rotation before then.

I know rotation is an art in itself as many have found but there is surely a better way that teams could have done it. The way most teams have gone their second string players will have no confidence left by the start of next season.

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Post by Heaf on Mon 31 Aug 2020, 6:30 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:One prevented a try. One didnt. Pretty much like the old preventing a goal scoring op and pen in football. That has been changed to represent the view that you shouldn't be doubly punished. Laws are clear though. Think they both realised it but at that stage in the match underhill thought it was worth the risk.

Yep understand that but it still seems incongruous to me that for example had Bath failed to ground the ball they would have been rewarded with a try, an automatic conversion and a YC to Wasps so by managing to ground it they were worse off.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Tue 01 Sep 2020, 10:11 am

Disappointing performance from Bath, a few marginal decisions and uncontested scrums were a factor but Wasps just looked more likely to sneak it at the end than Bath to close it out, unfortunately.
Shields and Willis are certainly an impressive combo, reminiscent of a previous wasps era with a weaker front five but a marauding back row....Underhill was outnumbered. Mercer is wasted at 6, with young Reid or Ellis a better call at blindside.

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 01 Sep 2020, 1:14 pm

Brendan wrote:I can't understand why teams are just throwing second teams out there with no chance of winning.  Surely teams would be better to have played half full and half seconds over the course of the games.  I know the mid week game was hard to manage but plenty poor rotation before then.

I know rotation is an art in itself as many have found but there is surely a better way that teams could have done it.  The way most teams have gone their second string players will have no confidence left by the start of next season.

Northampton have mixed and matched to a large degree and lost all four matches.

Exeter and Sale have both fielded largely second-string sides away to play off rivals and won. For Sale this followed two matches with the strongest side where they lost, with the second string side thus kick-starting their season.

The advantage of mixing in some real quality was shown on Sunday at Kingsholm, where Ford, Lenny and Taufua came on either side of half time and completely changed the flow of the game. With Tigers not in teh mix for play-offs I would have preferred us to balance the teams somewhat - though this has also been hampered by losing a lot of players and the newer "name" guys either having to quarantine or not being available till next season. Even so how much better is it for our youn scrum half to play alongside Ford rather than the second/third choice?

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 04 Sep 2020, 1:39 pm

Leicester: Steward; Williams, Taute, Scott; Nadolo, Ford (capt); Youngs, Genge, Clare, Cole, Lavanini, Green, Wells, Wallace, Liebenberg.

Replacements: Kerr, Gigena, Leatigaga, Henderson, Taufafa, White, Henry, Porter.

Sale: L James; Solomona, Tuilagi, van Rensburg; Yarde, MacGinty; de Klerk, Oosthuizen, van der Merwe, Cooper-Woolley, JL du Preez, de Jager, Ross (capt), Curry, D du Preez.

Replacements: Ashman, Morozov, John, Neild, Postlethwaite, Quirke, S James, Reed.

Tuilagi starts against Tigers.

3 locks and Liebenberg in the starting pack suggests Tigers are targeting the set-piece. The Sale pack is outstanding in the loose but has looked vulnerable at scrum and lineout since the restart. I'll be keen to see how the new Tigers lineout fares against Lood de Jager.

Having played massively rotated sides to focus on the next three weekends that lead into the Challenge Cup QF against Castres I would expect good performances from Tigers over the next few weeks. Perhaps not wins with Sale and Saints both capable of some very good rugby, but I'd hope to keep seeing the performances and structures improving.

Overall I like the Tigers side. The bench has impact which is nice progress. I'm very pleased that the impressive Cam Henderson has held onto the bench spot ahead of Blake Enever. I'd have picked Reffell if he's fit but Wallace has been really strong since joining.

My main concern is definitely Taute as an outside centre. After his knee injury at Munster he mainly played 12 for them and was effective. He lacks the pace for 13 these days though and the Sale outside backs have a lot of pace.

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 04 Sep 2020, 3:22 pm

I suspect Enever is either injured or being held back for the mid week game against the Pests. Reffell ditto and Taufua off the bench might also be making an appearance.

Agree Taute has lost a lot of his pace but defensively he's been pretty good. Well when he's not given away penalties.

Sale don't look as good when they haven't got a secondary playmaker so I hope we look to pressure McGinty. He'll kick when under pressure and we'll get the ball back. We can better deal with the centres running hard lines than we will if Sale get their outside backs into space.

It's going to be an absolute war up front and a good indication of how we've progressed under Borthwick.

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Post by king_carlos on Fri 04 Sep 2020, 5:08 pm

A breakdown of penalties conceded since the restart. In brackets are the penalties conceded by game.

39 – Exeter (11, 13, 6, 9), Leicester (17, 8, 8, 6)

43 – Gloucester (9, 11, 12, 11)

45 – Northampton (7, 12, 12, 14)

46 – Bath (9, 15, 9, 13)

47 – Saracens (10, 16, 9, 12)

50 – Wasps (9, 11, 17, 13)

51 – London Irish (9, 21, 10, 11)

52 – Sale (16, 18, 12, 6)

56 – Harlequins (11, 15, 15, 15)

59 – Bristol (17, 17, 14, 11)

60 – Worcester (13, 17, 20, 10)

A clear indication of Tigers defensive system under Borthwick that they are up the top of that list despite kicking a lot of ball away still.

The big drop off for Sale against Bristol is interesting. Yes, Bristol were fielding a rotated side but the Curry brother working well in tandem there.

The 20 for Worcester against Quins is very high given they came away with a convincing win.

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Post by RDW on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 12:12 am

Just watched the Bristol game - Randranda is such a sexy beast of a rugby player. He's absolutely lit up the Premiership.

Exeter should still win the competition, but Bristol are building a hell of a team.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 9:06 am

Didn’t really catch that game but Bristol seem to be in good form, ready for their quarter final... 

Northampton played out of their skins, and exeter still managed to win. A few good welsh players on show, one of them being Dollman again - is it too late for his Wales swan song? 
David Ribbans has been good for a while now. Are england going to poach him?

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Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 11:11 am

I think Dollman at 35 might just be winding down to retirement in Devon. Still does a job for Chiefs and I imagine he's a handy mentor to a lot of the young lads.

Ribbans I imagine will be poached sooner rather than later. To good a player for us not to look at. Jones doesn't seem too fussed about half inching players if they qualify and a lot of our front line locks are reaching the end of their prime. Kruis, Launchbury and Lawes may well not make the next world cup.

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Post by king_carlos on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 11:15 am

Weren't Dollman and Steenson were due to be retired now had this season not being postponed?

I may be wrong but I thought both were hanging up their boots but signed short term deals to see out the season after restart.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 05 Sep 2020, 12:18 pm

Could be the case but Dollman still looks as if he can do it all. He was due to be capped but didn’t an ankle injury in the final rule him out?

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