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Bronze - Match Thread - NEW ZEALAND v WALES - 1/11/19 - K/O 09:00 GMT

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Oct 2019, 9:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Again, making these early for the sake of ease and consistency.

NZ

Team:

1. Joe Moody (44)
2. Dane Coles (68)
3. Nepo Laulala (24)
4. Brodie Retallick (80)
5. Scott Barrett (35)
6. Shannon Frizell (8)
7. Sam Cane (67)
8. Kieran Read - captain (126)
9. Aaron Smith (91)
10. Richie Mo’unga (16)
11. Rieko Ioane (28)
12. Sonny Bill Williams (56)
13. Ryan Crotty (47)
14. Ben Smith (83)
15. Beauden Barrett (82)
16. Liam Coltman (7)
17. Atu Moli (7)
18. Angus Ta'avao (13)
19. Patrick Tuipulotu (29)
20. Matt Todd (24)
21. Brad Weber (4)
22. Anton Lienert-Brown (41)
23. Jordie Barrett (16)


WALES

Team:

1. Nicky Smith (Ospreys) (34 Caps)
2. Ken Owens (Scarlets) (72 Caps)
3. Dillon Lewis (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)
4. Adam Beard (Ospreys) (19 Caps)
5. Alun Wyn Jones (Ospreys) (133 Caps) (CAPT)
6. Justin Tipuric (Ospreys) (71 Caps)
7. James Davies (Scarlets) (7 Caps)
8. Ross Moriarty (Dragons) (40 Caps)
9. Tomos Williams (Cardiff Blues) (15 Caps)
10. Rhys Patchell (Scarlets) (18 Caps)
11. Josh Adams (Cardiff Blues) (20 Caps)
12. Owen Watkin (Ospreys) (21 Caps)
13. Jonathan Davies (Scarlets) (80 Caps)
14. Owen Lane (Cardiff Blues) (1 Cap)
15. Hallam Amos (Cardiff Blues) (21 Caps)

Replacements:

16. Elliot Dee (Dragons) (27 Caps)
17. Rhys Carre (Saracens) (4 Caps)
18. Wyn Jones (Scarlets) (21 Caps)
19. Jake Ball (Scarlets) (41 Caps)
20. Aaron Shingler (Scarlets) (25 Caps)
21. Gareth Davies (Scarlets) (50 Caps)
22. Dan Biggar (Northampton Saints) (78 Caps)
23. Hadleigh Parkes (Scarlets) (24 Caps)

Injury update (Players not considered for selection):

Tomas Francis – Subluxation of left shoulder and will require ongoing assessment
George North – Hamstring injury
Aaron Wainwright – Hamstring injury
Leigh Halfpenny – Concussion​
Liam Williams - Ankle Surgery


Venue: Tokyo
Referee:
AR1:
AR2:
TMO:


Last edited by miaow on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 4:54 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:31 am

Jordie Barrett is a poor NZ Cap.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:34 am

NZ lineout throwing has been awful!

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:37 am

Tramptastic wrote:Simon Shaw was 38 on the 2009 lions tour I thought?

Totally feasible for AWJ to make 2021, just whether his body holds out until then!

Not sure Shaw had the miles on the clock though.

I guess its about his motivation and what he wants from the tour, he may well struggle to make the test team this time with some of the other locks around, or even to make the squad. He would need to be right on top of his game.

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:39 am

All the subs have taken the rhythm out of the game but Wales have done well to steady the ship, the game was in danger of really running away from them

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:44 am

AWJ would be a great tour captain for the Lions, but realistically he couldn’t be a test candidate, so probably shouldn’t tour.

Wales have to protect him to get that far. Need Hill to be fit again for that to partner Ball, as I don’t really see anything in Beard.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:46 am

BigGee wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:Simon Shaw was 38 on the 2009 lions tour I thought?

Totally feasible for AWJ to make 2021, just whether his body holds out until then!

Not sure Shaw had the miles on the clock though.

I guess its about his motivation and what he wants from the tour, he may well struggle to make the test team this time with some of the other locks around, or even to make the squad. He would need to be right on top of his game.


Shaw wasn't compeeting against Launchberry for fourth choice England lock....

As romantic a notion as it would be its not realistic. More than ever athletic mobile second rows are taking over the international game, AWJ has still been a genuine force this year but in another two years of him getting older and slower and the global game getting faster? Just cant see it.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

Even the moons out!

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

hahah moment of the tournament there! Hope noone was watching in super HD

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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

40-17 NZ at FT

Well done Kiwis, put it together today and gave some of the old boys a fitting send off

Bad luck Wales, it was a game to far as expected but it does not detract from a great tournament for you

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Post by Old Man on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

Vicky Matfield played in the 2015 RWC at the age of 38, he couldn’t hit a hole in a wet paper bag

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:49 am

Congrats to NZ on their 3rd place. Very Happy
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Post by BigGee on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:50 am

Gooseberry wrote:hahah moment of the tournament there! Hope noone was watching in super HD

What you might call a cheeky final play Very Happy

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:51 am

Beard needs to up the pace and be more aggressive, he'd be class if he did.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:52 am

Congratulations Josh Adams too. Thoroughly deservedly. That’s some feat, beating Shane’s 6 tries in a WC.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:52 am

In the end Wales did well to keep the score down, New Zealand spurned a lot of scoring chances with some uncharacteristically bad passing and offloading. Some bright moments for Wales and their heads never dropped, but never any question who the better team was and the result after that early try.

Not the demolition it could have been, Wales wont be happy with that of course but they did enough to avoid the worst case.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:53 am

Just an average Wales vs New Zealand game really.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:55 am

Well so long Gats & Hansen. clap clap clap


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:56 am

New Zealand trying to slice it up the middle to the very end.


....what?   Everybody else was doin' it.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:58 am

RiscaGame wrote:Congratulations Josh Adams too. Thoroughly deservedly. That’s some feat, beating Shane’s 6 tries in a WC.

A good tournament for Adams overall. He should get better too. It'll be interesting to see our style of play under Pivac, because when we usually play like we did today our defence falls apart.



Good send offs for certain All Blacks today, congratulations NZ.

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Post by The Oracle on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 10:58 am

Wales’ game plan of letting teams come at us, give them the ball back, let them come at us again, and feed off mistakes..... there’s a few teams we really struggle against when we do that. Aus, Fiji and NZ. The rest we can do it against and often come out victorious. Not always victorious, but often. 6N for example. It would be great to see us try something different against the above mentioned sides as that tactic means we really struggle against good running teams. Maybe we will under a new coaching team?
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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:01 am

BigGee wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:hahah moment of the tournament there! Hope noone was watching in super HD

What you might call a cheeky final play Very Happy

I think I saw the bronze medal  Erm

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:01 am

Why didn't Wales play like that last week?

They didn't play at all vs SA, I guess we'll find out how good SA are tomorrow.
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Post by ebop on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:06 am

Tighthead, are you worried England played their final last week?
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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:10 am

ebop, very worried.

England in Finals always make hard work of it, extra time or super over.

The British media already have us winning it. again!
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Post by ebop on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:13 am

Indeed, England do have a very patchy record in finals throughout history


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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:13 am

The Oracle wrote:Wales’ game plan of letting teams come at us, give them the ball back, let them come at us again, and feed off mistakes..... there’s a few teams we really struggle against when we do that. Aus, Fiji and NZ. The rest we can do it against and often come out victorious. Not always victorious, but often. 6N for example. It would be great to see us try something different against the above mentioned sides as that tactic means we really struggle against good running teams. Maybe we will under a new coaching team?

I can’t see us doing that, under the new management. Certain games warrant it, but not in games like today.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:22 am

ebop wrote:Indeed, England do have a very patchy record in finals throughout history

I think mentally as a nation we celebrate making the final whatever sport we play, I'm sure with Eddie being a Aussie will help with that.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:23 am

Exciting 6N ahead.

A few new head coaches, a few new assistant coaches. Pressure of WC gone.

A nice journey into the unknown for some.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:33 am

A good tournament overall for Wales considering all the injuries they had and might look back at the South Africa game wondering what might have been. Losing Anscombe was a real body blow and restricted their ability to vary the attack, Biggar is a good player but somewhat predictable and one dimensional, were he, Navidi and Williams available I reckon they'd have pulled through.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:35 am

Gatland flogged his players pre world cup and in the warm ups. You reap what you sow.
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Post by RDW on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:38 am

Heavy defeat but could have been so much worse - I feared for Wales after the quick try after halftime.

Great experience for the players though and they'll be in good shape for the 6N. Gearing up to be a colossal tournament, as always!

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:40 am

TightHEAD wrote:Why didn't Wales play like that last week?

They didn't play at all vs SA, I guess we'll find out how good SA are tomorrow.

they just lost by 23 points, they nearly didnt lose last week. I guess that might be a pointer.

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Post by TightHEAD on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:44 am

Gooseberry wrote:
TightHEAD wrote:Why didn't Wales play like that last week?

They didn't play at all vs SA, I guess we'll find out how good SA are tomorrow.

they just lost by 23 points, they nearly didnt lose last week. I guess that might be a pointer.

At the time of that comment Wales were in the game. thumbsup Do try and keep up.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:52 am

TightHEAD wrote:Gatland flogged his players pre world cup and in the warm ups. You reap what you sow.

Got them to a semi final that at times might have been a final.

Gatland is a good coach.  He (and the other coaches, it has to be said) worked marvels with Wales and even in that game today, young lads charging at the ABs any chance they got, no fear, no respector of reputation.  You'll always get a fight from Wales. They've seldom capitulated during his tenure. Scoreline might presume they didn't fight today... but I still see honour in that challenge.
From the resources he has to pick from, Gatland has always chosen well or created well.  And just when opponents thought he'd lost an essential player either to injury, retirement or moving abroad to play - up would pop another few players ready to play with a ferocity of effort that few would have expected.

I always salute that temperament of Welsh players to never give up.... and the auld dog Gats, well.... you have to bow to his career to date.  And it ain't finished yet.

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Post by Duty281 on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 11:56 am

Wales hopelessly outmatched in this one. They're fortunate NZ weren't at their ruthless best.

The final was last week; so too was the 3rd place game!

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 12:52 pm

Nice bit of arse to end the world cup for these teams.

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Post by Poorfour on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:06 pm

ebop wrote:Tighthead, are you worried England played their final last week?

I can't speak for Tighthead, but I'm not that worried. Their body language after the game wasn't that of a team who'd reached their peak or that of a team who think they've already won it. Those are the two biggest dangers. The third is being out of ideas - but Eddie says he'd guessed two years ago that if England reached the final they'd be playing South Africa and has been preparing for it.

The Final is typically closely fought, and South Africa present a different challenge from the other teams England have faced - they are possibly the only one who can outmatch them physically. But England will know that if they can resist that, they have more to offer in most areas of the game.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:10 pm

Some New Zealand supporters looking at a few of the perfornances today - Ben Smith, for instance - and wondering what might have been last week.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:13 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Some New Zealand supporters looking at a few of the perfornances today - Ben Smith, for instance - and wondering what might have been last week.

As you would.

The term 'Got cocky' might apply.

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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:25 pm

Not convinced Ben Smith nor Sam Cane etc would have made much difference.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:29 pm

Always a bit of a weird match, no one will remember that for anything much other than the last for a few players and coaches.

Crotty and Ben Smith showing they should have been in the A side but totally different occasions so not a good basis to compare. Wales have done well for probably the most injured side of the main hopefuls.

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:40 pm

Poorfour wrote:
ebop wrote:Tighthead, are you worried England played their final last week?

I can't speak for Tighthead, but I'm not that worried. Their body language after the game wasn't that of a team who'd reached their peak or that of a team who think they've already won it. Those are the two biggest dangers. The third is being out of ideas - but Eddie says he'd guessed two years ago that if England reached the final they'd be playing South Africa and has been preparing for it.

The Final is typically closely fought, and South Africa present a different challenge from the other teams England have faced - they are possibly the only one who can outmatch them physically. But England will know that if they can resist that, they have more to offer in most areas of the game.  

Post match was interesting. England had a quick huddle, thanked the fans, bowed and left. SA players were carrying their kids round.

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Post by Gooseberry on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 1:48 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
ebop wrote:Tighthead, are you worried England played their final last week?

I can't speak for Tighthead, but I'm not that worried. Their body language after the game wasn't that of a team who'd reached their peak or that of a team who think they've already won it. Those are the two biggest dangers. The third is being out of ideas - but Eddie says he'd guessed two years ago that if England reached the final they'd be playing South Africa and has been preparing for it.

The Final is typically closely fought, and South Africa present a different challenge from the other teams England have faced - they are possibly the only one who can outmatch them physically. But England will know that if they can resist that, they have more to offer in most areas of the game.  

Post match was interesting. England had a quick huddle, thanked the fans, bowed and left. SA players were carrying their kids round.


Mind have you seen Joe Marlers kids, hardly surprising he wants to keep them away from the cameras

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Post by Guest on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 2:31 pm

Not sure there's a worse game to play NZ than the showpiece non event where the ref

NZ's attitude to the breakdown is unreal. Lying on, constantly taking men off the ball, and a completely non existent gate. JD2 was taken off the ball at least 3 glaring times, but it was constant.

Either way, NZ clearly the better team, but some nice stuff from Wales. Some promising signs with lots of players showing some nice flashes.

Result as expected. Would have been nice to see one more nice try from Wales.


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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 5:47 pm

‘Lots of players showing some nice flashes’.

Interesting. They all get new camera’s?

Pretty unmemorable match was this ‘alternate’ final. 31 and counting. Let’s hope Pivac can put together a side that can muster up that first win.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 6:11 pm

RDW wrote:Any idea how long AWJ is planning on playing?

He'll be 36 next Lions tour - can he keep going that long?
It does not matter if he was 36 or 56, next Lions tour if Gatland was in charge he would still pick him just for old tome sake. Hug

Any way enough of the Lions that is 2 years away. So back to the game, and Reed doing the Haka, and the Haka being kamate.
Maybe it is because this is a Bronze medal place. If they was in the Final , you could garantee it would be Kapo o Ponga.

Have not seen the game yet. Will watch it later, but some one told me just as i was leaving work, that Wales made a good go of it in the first half, but looked half cooked and New Zealand just blew them a away in the second half. Is that about right.

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 6:27 pm

Yeah about right for the haka. Plus Read has only recently taken a page out of McCaws book who also led the haka on occasion and similarly has only mastered Ka mate as leader, kapo o pango a bit more complex as leader.

For the match both sides tried running the ball with varying success, NZ putting together a few more tries as a result. Ben Smith was probably NZs best, linking with Aaron Smith well occasionally to get two, missing a third called back for a tip forward to him by Reiko.

Uncomplex, probably unmemorable match, a good send off for several players and coaches.

Still think they should get rid of it.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 6:45 pm

I thought it was a great gesture to let him lead it. Like a better version of letting someone run out alone ahead of the game. Class act.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:39 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
RDW wrote:Any idea how long AWJ is planning on playing?

He'll be 36 next Lions tour - can he keep going that long?
It does not matter if he was 36 or 56, next Lions tour if Gatland was in charge he would still pick him just for old tome sake. Hug

Any way enough of the Lions that is 2 years away. So back to the game, and Reed doing the Haka, and the Haka being kamate.
Maybe it is because this is a Bronze medal place. If they was in the Final , you could garantee it would be Kapo o Ponga.

Have not seen the game yet. Will watch it later, but some one told me just as i was leaving work, that Wales made a good go of it in the first half, but looked half cooked and New Zealand just blew them a away in the second half. Is that about right.

How do you spell Maori pretty well, but struggle with your own language?

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Post by Taylorman on Fri 01 Nov 2019, 7:55 pm

Kapo o Ponga is ‘pretty well’ is it? Cool

Mind you, a common mistake.

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