The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Devalued European player of the year

Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Devalued European player of the year

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 7:28 pm

Seems that the guys and gals who draw up the shortlist are as annoyed about saracens as some fans. We now have the farcical situation where one of the best teams in Europe and reigning champions apparently have no one good enough to make the list. Stupid. Whoever wins this year can have an asterisk.

Stuart Hogg & Finn Russell in running for European player of the year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51264672

No 7&1/2

Posts : 20572
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by quinsforever on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 8:35 pm

i really, really want Saracens to win the Champs Cup now.

would LOVE to know how , and who, came up with the longlist.

makes EPCR look rather petty. Bit like the PRL. suspect that's the explanation right there.

quinsforever

Posts : 6735
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 27 Jan 2020, 11:05 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Seems that the guys and gals who draw up the shortlist are as annoyed about saracens as some fans. We now have the farcical situation where one of the best teams in Europe and reigning champions apparently have no one good enough to make the list. Stupid. Whoever wins this year can have an asterisk.

Stuart Hogg & Finn Russell in running for European player of the year - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51264672


Don't think an asterisk is called for.  The players on the list look deserving in my book.   The European Player of the Year award based on the European Champions Cup and the players considered/selected for the longlist are from their appearances/performances in the pool stages.  If you consider which teams performed the best in the pool stages?  Leinster, Exeter, Toulouse, Clermont, Racing 92, Ulster.

Furlong
Larmour
Ringrose
Cooney
Coetzee
Kaino
Ntamack
Russell
Vakatawa
Thomas
Moala
Radradra
Simmonds
Hogg
Cowan-Dickie

You could argue that Saracens performed strongly as a team in how they contended with the pool stages, but they lost two games, changed their squad a few times, and scraped into the final qualifying spot against a team that had already qualified.  The judging panel was fairly diverse: Erik Bonneval (beIN SPORTS), Bryan Habana (Channel 4), Emmanuel Massicard (Midi Olympique), Sonja McLaughlan (BBC Radio 5 Live), Brian O’Driscoll (BT Sport), Alan Quinlan (Virgin Media), Dimitri Yachvili (France Télévisions).   Not sure any of them could qualify as being personally annoyed with Saracens and what's gone on in the Premiership.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 5:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Pot Hale
Pot Hale

Posts : 6911
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 58
Location : Shuffling

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 3:07 am

If a player does well in the knockout stages, they can be added to the shortlist. That would seem to offer a window to include someone from Saracens should they go further.

Rugby Fan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 6204
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 7:12 am

Have I jumped the gun you reckon? I'm just cynical with the timing. Also Hogg hasn't exactly started amazingly for Exeter. I'll reserve partially judgement then and deal it down to the revised list...

No 7&1/2

Posts : 20572
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:25 pm

You don't get a default nomination just because you're the reigning champions, considered to be one of the best teams in Europe or because your players performed well in last year's tournament. Did Saracens perform like Saracens in the pool stages? I don't think so, the fact that they just scraped through is proof enough that they have been very unsaracen-like.

I'd agree about Hogg, he's been......well rather unHogg-like. I wouldn't have him on the list.

Which Sarries squad members would you add to the list?

It'll not matter who gets added anyway, it's Vakatawa's to lose IMO Wink

Pete330v2

Posts : 3904
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 1:42 pm

I just find it very odd. Like I said I'm willing to accept I jumped the gun slightly but I think you could make the case quite easily for saracens players in there. These awards are never really that transparent in how players are shortlisted and voted for. If theres a minimum mins player etc it could skew it. And for me to pick I'd have to go and refresh my memory from all the games....which I'm not doing! I'm just a cynic.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 20572
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 2:33 pm

The list will be reduced to five players in early May following the Heineken Champions Cup and Challenge Cup semi-finals by a combination of the public vote and the verdict of the judges, and players who have not been included in the initial list of 15, but who make a significant impact in a quarter-final or semi-final match, may be considered for the shortlist.
Pot Hale
Pot Hale

Posts : 6911
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 58
Location : Shuffling

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 2:46 pm

And that's not really transparent to me. All judges will be looking at different things. We've seen in the past longevity of career come.into these things rather than form. I guess we'll see.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 20572
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 2:59 pm

Russell? hes not even good enough to get in the Scotland squad  Whistle

Gooseberry

Posts : 7185
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Brendan on Tue 28 Jan 2020, 3:11 pm

I think based on the group stages Sarries don't deserve anything.

No standout players

Played weaker players in their three away games so means the strong/great players have only played in 3 matches. Even in the away games Sarries weren't great at all.

V Munster they were not much better than Munster and the only person to stand out from the game was the Munster Medic.
V Racing could be argued that Racing lost the game and stopped playing rather than Sarries were great and and players shone.

When you look at all the standout moments from that group it was Racing attacking moments mainly involving Russell.

Brendan

Posts : 3072
Join date : 2012-04-08
Location : Cork

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by The Great Aukster on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 1:20 pm

Is this another World Rugby marketing ploy? It's already clear they don't know how to brand the game using... er... rugby so they need another junket for the Committee men to get their dickies out.

It's an old fashioned view that rugby is a character-building sport that develops teamwork, camaraderie, honesty and reliance.
Yet the organisers of these awards think it's a good idea to devalue the idea of collective success in favour of single players who have been 'outstanding'.

What does that mean?

Are they outstanding because they are in a comparative useless group of players that does not have the necessary cohesion to be properly described as a TEAM?
Maybe the individual is outstanding because rather than convert a simple overlap with a scoring pass the outstanding player needs to do something outstanding by beating the opposition on his own?

The absence of Saracens players does not devalue their individual status but rather enhances it by showing they are part of an outstanding rugby team.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 5246
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 2:31 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Is this another World Rugby marketing ploy?

Nope. EPCR (and before that ECR) have done this each season for some time now. Longlist created after pool stages, players added after 1/4 & 1/2 finals before a 5(?) man shortlist is voted on. Since 2017 the winner has received the Anthony Foley Memorial Trophy, with Alex Goode winning last season.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 23216
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 2:34 pm

LondonTiger wrote: Alex Goode winning last season.

Well that devalued it if nothing else did boxing

Gooseberry

Posts : 7185
Join date : 2015-02-11

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 2:38 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
LondonTiger wrote: Alex Goode winning last season.

Well that devalued it if nothing else did boxing

I reckon he deserved it for the bender he went on after the final if nothing else.

More seriously he is the kind of player I like to see winning these awards. Was crucial to Saracens title win but generally rather unheralded. Mako, Sean Cronin, Tadhg Furlong and Garry Ringrose were the other shortlisted nominees last season.

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 23216
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 29 Jan 2020, 2:38 pm

Roll of Honour

2019: Alex Goode (Saracens)

2018: Leone Nakarawa (Racing 92)

2017: Owen Farrell (Saracens)

2016: Maro Itoje (Saracens)

2015: Nick Abendanon (ASM Clermont Auvergne)

2014: Steffon Armitage (RC Toulon)

2013: Jonny Wilkinson (RC Toulon)

2012: Rob Kearney (Leinster Rugby)

2011: Sean O’Brien (Leinster Rugby)

2010: Ronan O’Gara (Munster Rugby) – best player of the first 15 years of European club rugby

LondonTiger
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 23216
Join date : 2011-02-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by quinsforever on Thu 30 Jan 2020, 10:14 pm

having done my research, the publishing of the longlist is clearly a PR exercise...

the winner is ALWAYS chosen from one of the finalists (usually but not always the winner)

quinsforever

Posts : 6735
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 31 Jan 2020, 1:01 am

quinsforever wrote:having done my research, the publishing of the longlist is clearly a PR exercise...

the winner is ALWAYS chosen from one of the finalists (usually but not always the winner)
Did you happen to notice whether the winner has always been in the initial longlist, or if some were later additions?

Rugby Fan
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 6204
Join date : 2012-09-14

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 04 Feb 2020, 7:40 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Roll of Honour

2019: Alex Goode (Saracens)

2018: Leone Nakarawa (Racing 92)

2017: Owen Farrell (Saracens)

2016: Maro Itoje (Saracens)

2015: Nick Abendanon (ASM Clermont Auvergne)

2014: Steffon Armitage (RC Toulon)

2013: Jonny Wilkinson (RC Toulon)

2012: Rob Kearney (Leinster Rugby)

2011: Sean O’Brien (Leinster Rugby)

2010: Ronan O’Gara (Munster Rugby) – best player of the first 15 years of European club rugby

Plenty of French teams but no Frenchman winning it. A curious thing.
And Naka the only time a non-6Ns player picked up the award. Though he had a cult following from his time in Scotland, maybe broadening the appeal.
All the winners are class players, just curious over a decade no NZ/Aus/SA marquee signing was good enough?

3 back-three/fullback players
3 outhalfs
2 backrows (both fetchers)
2 locks (freak athletes)

No hookers, props, centres or scrumhalfs?

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2507
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 8:08 pm

It’s odd that the Fijian international, Isa Nacewa, never managed it - he was quite good in most of those positions for Leinster - don’t think he managed the front rower or lock though - maybe that told against him.
Pot Hale
Pot Hale

Posts : 6911
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 58
Location : Shuffling

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by quinsforever on Wed 05 Feb 2020, 10:24 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
quinsforever wrote:having done my research, the publishing of the longlist is clearly a PR exercise...

the winner is ALWAYS chosen from one of the finalists (usually but not always the winner)
Did you happen to notice whether the winner has always been in the initial longlist, or if some were later additions?
i didnt do that extra bit of research, sorry.

quinsforever

Posts : 6735
Join date : 2013-10-10

Back to top Go down

Devalued European player of the year  Empty Re: Devalued European player of the year

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum