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Risk 6 Nations may not complete this years tournament.

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Post by No9 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 1:13 pm

Yes, there is a real chance that not all games in this years 6 Nations may be completed as Italian authorities are enforcing "no go zones" as a result of the Corona virus.

Pro 14 games with Zebre and Treviso against Ospreys and Ulster have already been postponed as well as the women's game this weekend. Now at the moment its hitting the North, but there are real concerns and questions being asked whether the Italian team should withdraw from the remainder of the 6 Nations matches, as they're players themselves are based in those regions.

Of course, this would be an upset for all us rugby fans, but we shouldn't lose sight of the bigger picture here, that being that people are losing their lives to this, so please consider that before you WUM on this thread.

Personally, I hope the 6 Nations completes, but my thoughts go out to all being caught up in this and as such would fully understand if the 6 Nations isnt completed. After all, we delayed the 6 Nations over Foot and Mouth outbreak and even cancelled previous 5 Nations over terrorist threats, so I guess we have to put it into perspective.


*** BEFORE you WUM on this thread... think***


************Update 27th Feb @ 1800hrs ***************

BBC wrote:

Officials from around the rugby world are meeting at a pre-arranged World Rugby summit at the start of next week, with Six Nations unions set to take this opportunity to continue discussions around rescheduling the cancelled games.

While France can still clinch the Grand Slam, if they were to lose one of their remaining matches then the men's Championship may not have a winner unless Ireland's game with Italy in Dublin is rearranged.

Six Nations sources have indicated that matches will only be called off in the event of a governmental directive.

While the Italy against England women's match is under more threat because it is being staged in Padua in Veneto, the virus has not yet spread to Rome, where the men's Italy against England game is taking place.

The Italy against Scotland match in the women's Championship was called off last weekend because it was being staged in the Lombardy region, which is one of the affected areas.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51666898



Last edited by No9 on Thu 27 Feb 2020, 6:25 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:20 pm

I would presume as you suggest above that games would merely be postponed. May well be cancelled altogether as France can compete the slam without italy coming into it.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:38 pm

Suppose there's three solutions here:

1. Cancel the games
2. Postpone the games
3. Play the England game in London

It should be fairly straightforward. If there's an above average (as in across Europe) chance the players could be carrying the infection then neither of the games can be played in the next month or so. If it's just a case of no games being played in Italy by the last weekend, and if the Italians were in favour, it would make sense to play the game in Italy and just swap next year's fixture around or postponing the fixture to June or November.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm

The games will most likely be postponed but for how long? Nobody knows how long this will last and we could end up with the farce of having the 6 nations decided some months from now.
If however they are to be cancelled and teams handed draws then it does both Ireland and France a hug disservice. Ireland in wiping out any hope of winning the tournament and France any chance of a GS, one which they may well richly deserve should they hammer Ireland in France (which they probably will).

It's going to get messy!!

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm

As long as we win the next game the Italian game is meaningless. Just give England a +40 five pointer and cancel the game.
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm

Parisses last game cancelled again .....

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Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:41 pm

Italy are due to host us on March 14th, and we know the recommended quarantine period (at the moment) 14 days. It would make sense to postpone or cancel early.

Many public events here in Japan are being cancelled. Tokyo pulled a lot from the schedule for 3 weeks but I'm not sure about sporting events, The Sunwolves played in Australia at the weekend, so that question didn't come up. South Africa U23 have a match scheduled in Kyoto for March 27th, and they have already said they won't be coming. There is a big sumo tournament in Osaka early next month, which will be a bellweather for other event planning.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:43 pm

I wouldn't have a problem in the slightest with protecting populations by postponing or cancelling the entire remainder of the Six Nations. I assume the Unions would be irritated and the money men (sponsors/broadcasters) would be angered but in both cases I wouldn't care a hoot.
There are more important things and just like a life taking Typhoon, this Coronavirus threat is one of them.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:45 pm

Gooseberry wrote: Parisses last game cancelled again .....

I don't want to laugh but that one is building into a great Italian comedy (60s style) - The Man who Couldn't Retire Gracefully

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 2:58 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote: Parisses last game cancelled again .....

I don't want to laugh but that one is building into a great Italian comedy (60s style) - The Man who Couldn't Retire Gracefully

In about 5 years time they'll bring him on the pitch for the last 30 seconds

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Post by bluestonevedder on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:06 pm

lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote: Parisses last game cancelled again .....

I don't want to laugh but that one is building into a great Italian comedy (60s style) - The Man who Couldn't Retire Gracefully

In about 5 years time they'll bring him on the pitch for the last 30 seconds

....and he'd still attempt a totally unnecessary drop goal

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:27 pm

bluestonevedder wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote: Parisses last game cancelled again .....

I don't want to laugh but that one is building into a great Italian comedy (60s style) - The Man who Couldn't Retire Gracefully

In about 5 years time they'll bring him on the pitch for the last 30 seconds

....and he'd still attempt a totally unnecessary drop goal

.... he'd demand to play half the game in the opposition colours so that he'd be guaranteed a win.

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Post by No9 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 3:49 pm

I have to agree with the comments.

Especially, as up to now, France have played Italy, so if they go on and win a Slam, whats the point of playing the remaining Italy (home) game. However, if France loose before the end, then either the game is postponed until its safe to play or just remove ALL Italian games from the results (this year). After all, they haven't won a game.

Mind you, do that, and the last game for Wales is likely to be a Wooden Spoon game against England... Unless we win in Twickenham in 2 weeks.. Erm

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 4:32 pm

Is there any official word that this might happen? It seems to be a tad premature if none of the head honchos are mentioning it at all.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 4:44 pm

No9 wrote:I have to agree with the comments.

Especially, as up to now, France have played Italy, so if they go on and win a Slam, whats the point of playing the remaining Italy (home) game. However, if France loose before the end, then either the game is postponed until its safe to play or just remove ALL Italian games from the results (this year). After all, they haven't won a game.

Mind you, do that, and the last game for Wales is likely to be a Wooden Spoon game against England... Unless we win in Twickenham in 2 weeks.. Erm

Best make sure and win at Twickers. They're very beatable, just not by Ireland. If anyone can, Wales can.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 4:45 pm

123456789. wrote:Is there any official word that this might happen? It seems to be a tad premature if none of the head honchos are mentioning it at all.

There's nothing official but with all other rugby in Italy being postponed it seems fairly likely.

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Post by tigertattie on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 4:51 pm

There is a real risk of this.

Scotland vs Italy in the ladies 6ns was cancelled last minute at the weekend as that was to be played in an area where the virus has confirmed cases.

Now its not just an issue of games played in those areas, but people in those areas attending the games and taking the infection with them.

I'm surprised that the Scotland team are not (currently) involved in a quarantine situation as it is.

There is of course the other side of the argument where the infection is likely going to spread across the world no matter what we do now so why bother. But then you really need to take every action you can to minimise the risk so just shrugging your shoulders and saying it will spread anyway isn’t an option in this day and age.

Its a serious issue that needs some serious thought. I'm not a doctor but I don’t see why this infection has been grabbing the headlines so much. There’s been what, 2,600 (tragic) deaths from this so far but annually we see 600,000 deaths a year from "regular" flu and we don’t quarantine people from around the world when they've been to an area where that virus is on the go.

It's all a bit odd!

but safety first!
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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 5:13 pm

tigertattie wrote:There is a real risk of this.

Scotland vs Italy in the ladies 6ns was cancelled last minute at the weekend as that was to be played in an area where the virus has confirmed cases.

Now its not just an issue of games played in those areas, but people in those areas attending the games and taking the infection with them.

I'm surprised that the Scotland team are not (currently) involved in a quarantine situation as it is.

There is of course the other side of the argument where the infection is likely going to spread across the world no matter what we do now so why bother. But then you really need to take every action you can to minimise the risk so just shrugging your shoulders and saying it will spread anyway isn’t an option in this day and age.

Its a serious issue that needs some serious thought. I'm not a doctor but I don’t see why this infection has been grabbing the headlines so much. There’s been what, 2,600 (tragic) deaths from this so far but annually we see 600,000 deaths a year from "regular" flu and we don’t quarantine people from around the world when they've been to an area where that virus is on the go.

It's all a bit odd!

but safety first!

The regular flu does cause many, many more deaths but I think the issue with this virus is that they don't know where it originated and therefore where it'll finish it's journey and in what form. To ignore it would be madness as it could manifest itself in a much more serious form as it spreads.

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Post by 123456789. on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 5:25 pm

I don't know too much about all of this but one of my mates is a scientist and he seems to think the issue is that whereas flu tends only to kill people with an already weakened immune system this is getting people who are healthy at the time of infection. So people who die of flu tend to have another underlying sickness like cancer or tend to be very odd. Theoretically speaking unless these people were interacting solely with people in similar circumstances the illness won't actually kill them whereas a bus of 20 odd year olds with no significant underlying health issues could be subjected and killed by the virus. I think where flu is almost self-contained naturally coronavirus has the potential to run and run.
In very simplified form if you put one hundred people in a room and one had flu. It could spread across them all and the only ones in very real danger would be those already ill or very old. In time everyone fit and healthy would recover from their illness. Whereas with Coronavirus you could put one hundred people in a room and left untreated it could potentially do for all of them irrespective of their prior condition. Again I am no expert on this and so this was dumbed down for me I would imagine and I may have misunderstood.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 5:26 pm

tigertattie wrote:There is a real risk of this.

Scotland vs Italy in the ladies 6ns was cancelled last minute at the weekend as that was to be played in an area where the virus has confirmed cases.

Now its not just an issue of games played in those areas, but people in those areas attending the games and taking the infection with them.

I'm surprised that the Scotland team are not (currently) involved in a quarantine situation as it is.

There is of course the other side of the argument where the infection is likely going to spread across the world no matter what we do now so why bother. But then you really need to take every action you can to minimise the risk so just shrugging your shoulders and saying it will spread anyway isn’t an option in this day and age.

Its a serious issue that needs some serious thought. I'm not a doctor but I don’t see why this infection has been grabbing the headlines so much. There’s been what, 2,600 (tragic) deaths from this so far but annually we see 600,000 deaths a year from "regular" flu and we don’t quarantine people from around the world when they've been to an area where that virus is on the go.

It's all a bit odd!

but safety first!

It is true that ordinary Flu is a major killer, but then it primarily takes those who are already weak. Everybody is going to die of something. The reason that Spanish flu (100 years ago) was so notable was that it took the lives of the young and the healthy.

The coronovirus is brand new so we don't have resistance to it. They are talking about a death rate of around 1-2%*, so it is unlikely to affect you or me, but if it does infect enough people the impact will be significant. What is also significant is that there are starting to be outbreaks in places like Iran (and Italy) where they can't track the source.

* public figures - but who knows what is actually happening because China isn't going to publish all the data, and what with quarantine it may take a long time to find all the casualties anyway.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 6:51 pm

Yes, you'd have to admit there is a degree of seeming panic propaganda around a virus that as yet! - as yet - hasn't really killed many more people than a tough 'regular' flu would in a given season.

So what can we know?  Is the outbreak natural or imposed?  Is the narrative designed to scare us?  Is it designed to increase vaccine production, research funding and sales?  Is it being used as a weapon in global politics?  Is it a test on effectiveness of bio weapon/population control release (for such has been strongly hinted from its particular and 'coincidental' place of origin)?
We can't know, only guess.  The innocent explanation might be that the scientists/medics are simply very concerned that a new virus that hasn't been studied sufficiently might quickly transmute to an even more deadly threat.  So suppress it now as best we can to cut down the chances of such a change occurring.  I concur.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:04 pm

SecretFly wrote:Yes, you'd have to admit there is a degree of seeming panic propaganda around a virus that as yet! - as yet - hasn't really killed many more people than a tough 'regular' flu would in a given season.

So what can we know?  Is the outbreak natural or imposed?  Is the narrative designed to scare us?  Is it designed to increase vaccine production, research funding and sales?  Is it being used as a weapon in global politics?  Is it a test on effectiveness of bio weapon/population control release (for such has been strongly hinted from its particular and 'coincidental' place of origin)?
We can't know, only guess.  The innocent explanation might be that the scientists/medics are simply very concerned that a new virus that hasn't been studied sufficiently might quickly transmute to an even more deadly threat.  So suppress it now as best we can to cut down the chances of such a change occurring.  I concur.


The source seems to be understood - in that its a virus that is common to an animal (bat or possibly snake) but not to humans. Some Chinese like to eat wildlife hence species cross over.

A vaccine should be possible but won't be viable for maybe a year

A very good summary of all this can be found in this thread on that twitter thingy

https://twitter.com/gnomeicide/status/1225797543797436417?s=20

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:11 pm

lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, you'd have to admit there is a degree of seeming panic propaganda around a virus that as yet! - as yet - hasn't really killed many more people than a tough 'regular' flu would in a given season.

So what can we know?  Is the outbreak natural or imposed?  Is the narrative designed to scare us?  Is it designed to increase vaccine production, research funding and sales?  Is it being used as a weapon in global politics?  Is it a test on effectiveness of bio weapon/population control release (for such has been strongly hinted from its particular and 'coincidental' place of origin)?
We can't know, only guess.  The innocent explanation might be that the scientists/medics are simply very concerned that a new virus that hasn't been studied sufficiently might quickly transmute to an even more deadly threat.  So suppress it now as best we can to cut down the chances of such a change occurring.  I concur.


The source seems to be understood - in that its a virus that is common to an animal (bat or possibly snake) but not to humans. Some Chinese like to eat wildlife hence species cross over.

A vaccine should be possible but won't be viable for maybe a year

A very good summary of all this can be found in this thread on that twitter thingy

https://twitter.com/gnomeicide/status/1225797543797436417?s=20

Did I hear correctly, or was it perhaps erroneous reporting, that this virus has a HIV-like component?

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:22 pm

Irish health minister has said that the Ireland v Italy game in Dublin on Mar 7 may be postponed/cancelled because it constitutes a mass gathering that WHO have warned against.  Nothing definite yet but IRFU are aware.

Clearly it wouldn't be a Grand Slam if the remaining Italy games against Ireland and England were cancelled as not all teams will have played the other and they would have a bearing on match points and points difference.

If Ireland, England and France were to win their next games with some gaining a BP, resulting in say Eng 13, Ire 14 and Fra 18, then it would be all to play for in the final round with possibly points difference deciding the title.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 7:32 pm

But the final round would mean us going to France.... is that not also a mass gathering and was there Coronavirus cases in France?

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 8:05 pm

SecretFly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Yes, you'd have to admit there is a degree of seeming panic propaganda around a virus that as yet! - as yet - hasn't really killed many more people than a tough 'regular' flu would in a given season.

So what can we know?  Is the outbreak natural or imposed?  Is the narrative designed to scare us?  Is it designed to increase vaccine production, research funding and sales?  Is it being used as a weapon in global politics?  Is it a test on effectiveness of bio weapon/population control release (for such has been strongly hinted from its particular and 'coincidental' place of origin)?
We can't know, only guess.  The innocent explanation might be that the scientists/medics are simply very concerned that a new virus that hasn't been studied sufficiently might quickly transmute to an even more deadly threat.  So suppress it now as best we can to cut down the chances of such a change occurring.  I concur.


The source seems to be understood - in that its a virus that is common to an animal (bat or possibly snake) but not to humans. Some Chinese like to eat wildlife hence species cross over.

A vaccine should be possible but won't be viable for maybe a year

A very good summary of all this can be found in this thread on that twitter thingy

https://twitter.com/gnomeicide/status/1225797543797436417?s=20

Did I hear correctly, or was it perhaps erroneous reporting, that this virus has a HIV-like component?

From what I understand no. It's not that complex that it hides from the body's defenses like HIV does, and coronovisues are a known danger. What it may have in common is that its source is a wild animal.

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Post by No9 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 10:01 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Irish health minister has said that the Ireland v Italy game in Dublin on Mar 7 may be postponed/cancelled because it constitutes a mass gathering that WHO have warned against.  Nothing definite yet but IRFU are aware.

Clearly it wouldn't be a Grand Slam if the remaining Italy games against Ireland and England were cancelled as not all teams will have played the other and they would have a bearing on match points and points difference.

If Ireland, England and France were to win their next games with some gaining a BP, resulting in say Eng 13, Ire 14 and Fra 18, then it would be all to play for in the final round with possibly points difference deciding the title.

Not right... if France plays its remaining games and win them, it won’t matter if Ireland and England games against Italy are cancelled as France would have achieved a Grand Slam. The bonus points would mean nothing at all then, as Slam trumps the lot.

If that where to happen, there would be no reason to play the remaining Italy games. However, agree if France lose to Scotland or Ireland (or both) then we would be down to points and all games would need to be played at some point, ie postponed till safe to play. 

OR, the 2020 tournament is cancelled and chalked down as no winner, no loser, just a non event, which I’m sure no one wants.

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Post by Pot Hale on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 10:17 pm

No9 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Irish health minister has said that the Ireland v Italy game in Dublin on Mar 7 may be postponed/cancelled because it constitutes a mass gathering that WHO have warned against.  Nothing definite yet but IRFU are aware.

Clearly it wouldn't be a Grand Slam if the remaining Italy games against Ireland and England were cancelled as not all teams will have played the other and they would have a bearing on match points and points difference.

If Ireland, England and France were to win their next games with some gaining a BP, resulting in say Eng 13, Ire 14 and Fra 18, then it would be all to play for in the final round with possibly points difference deciding the title.

Not right... if France plays its remaining games and win them, it won’t matter if Ireland and England games against Italy are cancelled as France would have achieved a Grand Slam. The bonus points would mean nothing at all then, as Slam trumps the lot.

If that where to happen, there would be no reason to play the remaining Italy games. However, agree if France lose to Scotland or Ireland (or both) then we would be down to points and all games would need to be played at some point, ie postponed till safe to play. 

OR, the 2020 tournament is cancelled and chalked down as no winner, no loser, just a non event, which I’m sure no one wants.

If the Italy games are cancelled, then England and Ireland lose out by not potentially gaining any match points. Ireland playing a match against France where a win might win them the title, or getting a bonus point, or by scoring a certain amount of points is different to one where nothing is on the line for them. It's unbalanced, so it's not a true Grand Slam since all the teams could not be competitive. France could play Scotland and beat them with a BP - that puts them on 18 before Ireland play them with 9 points. What's the point of Ireland playing - nothing to gain from winning. It hands an unfair advantage to France.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 11:26 pm

It's probably just choosing a winner because the record books like recording winners.  

We in this present would remember that circumstances were involved that skewed the results.  So we'd acknowledge something formal but emotionally know that wonky maths chose the winner in a virus panic year.

But of course futurenik rugby fans won't care to remember the extenuating circumstances and just instead ponder the cold records on the lists of winners and losers.

But so be it.  By then many of us won't be around to care much about ye olde stats of the past Wink

Tally Ho to whatever Six Nations admin people decide.  Me don't care if we even somehow get offered the Wooden Spoon.

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Post by No9 on Mon 24 Feb 2020, 11:40 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
No9 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Irish health minister has said that the Ireland v Italy game in Dublin on Mar 7 may be postponed/cancelled because it constitutes a mass gathering that WHO have warned against.  Nothing definite yet but IRFU are aware.

Clearly it wouldn't be a Grand Slam if the remaining Italy games against Ireland and England were cancelled as not all teams will have played the other and they would have a bearing on match points and points difference.

If Ireland, England and France were to win their next games with some gaining a BP, resulting in say Eng 13, Ire 14 and Fra 18, then it would be all to play for in the final round with possibly points difference deciding the title.

Not right... if France plays its remaining games and win them, it won’t matter if Ireland and England games against Italy are cancelled as France would have achieved a Grand Slam. The bonus points would mean nothing at all then, as Slam trumps the lot.

If that where to happen, there would be no reason to play the remaining Italy games. However, agree if France lose to Scotland or Ireland (or both) then we would be down to points and all games would need to be played at some point, ie postponed till safe to play. 

OR, the 2020 tournament is cancelled and chalked down as no winner, no loser, just a non event, which I’m sure no one wants.

If the Italy games are cancelled, then England and Ireland lose out by not potentially gaining any match points.   Ireland playing a match against France where a win might win them the title, or getting a bonus point, or by scoring a certain amount of points is different to one where nothing is on the line for them.  It's unbalanced, so it's not a true Grand Slam since all the teams could not be competitive.   France could play Scotland and beat them with a BP - that puts them on 18 before Ireland play them with 9 points.   What's the point of Ireland playing - nothing to gain from winning.   It hands an unfair advantage to France.  
Rubbish... sorry, a Grand Slam is when you have won ALL of your games. Only France can win that, so if they play all they’re remaining games irrespective if the Italy games are cancelled, it is CLEARLY (to use your words) a Grand Slam. The BP have nothing to do with it, in that case. If they played Scotland or Ireland and lost, either or both, I conceded the title can not be given without all games being played (at some later time). But France winning all their remaining games is a Slam. It can’t be disputed as France would have played and beat all nations.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 2:44 am

Daily Mail reporting the England fixture might be switched to England. Presumably, that could only happen if the Italians were happy giving up home advantage.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 8:55 am

Business seems to try to do anything to circumvent logic.  Money, money, money!  Let's make this work, people!
I don't get these proposals.
If the game is held in England does that mean Italian fans won't be allowed travel to support their team?  Will the game be held behind closed doors, no crowds at all?
For surely, the issue is the threat of spreading the virus and therefore it really shouldn't matter whether the game is played in Italy or England - the purpose of virus containment is to try to stop unnecessary large migrations of people to or from infected areas.
Indeed, fans coming through Heathrow, a centralised world hub for air traffic to all parts of the world, is a bigger headache perhaps than English fans heading to Italy.

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Post by No9 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 9:48 am

Rugby Fan wrote:Daily Mail reporting the England fixture might be switched to England. Presumably, that could only happen if the Italians were happy giving up home advantage.

With Fly on this..

The most moronic idea I've heard in a long time. I think its just a journo making it up, as just switching venues will just mean the supporters go there and this virus containment is all about isolation not moving from one spot to another.

Health secretary this morning on BBC Breakfast clearly stated anyone who has travelled from Northern Italy should self isolate. So how is that going to work if your bringing thousands of Italian fans to the UK by switching a venue.

Game will get postponed, and even cancelled if France complete the Slam. BUT, I dont think this is the end of the story. I can see more European countries declaring higher Coronavirus levels soon and wont be surprised if France's final games get pulled as well. So we could see a non 2020 6 Nations (ie not completed, so no result) or a postponement to the summer/early autumn.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 9:53 am

A few years back we had the England/Ireland game delayed over foot and mouth (2001 - just looked it up). It was the Grand Slam game which we lost, but the whole thing was a bit of a damp squib

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Post by No9 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 10:29 am

As stated on the OP...

Also in the 1972, Ireland v Wales was cancelled (as was Ireland v Scotland) when Wales where on for a Slam, due to heightened IRA attacks.

So its not unprecedented to cancel or postpone.


Last edited by No9 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 10:30 am

Yep.  I wouldn't be for these silly postponement of games into the latter half of the year - it was a damp squib.

Six Nations should just either continue on from here (which I think would be negligence in the face of unknown consequences of subsequent infection numbers - not the least of which would put undue pressures on already stretched national health services) or cancel it here and now.
Stop trying to make life conform to the needs of the Professional sports business.  Make sport conform to reason.  It truly isn't the most important part of the equation in this debate.  If money is lost, so be it.

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:18 am

Do you mean the whole tournament should be abandoned now Fly?

So no Scotland vs France? No England vs Wales?

We're walking into a situation where games without real risk arent going ahead. What then is next? Schools shutting, workplaces closing?

Or do you mean just Italy games are to be cancelled? Then we are walking into biblical times where the lepers are shunned.

Its a bit of a clusterfeck really.
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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:20 am

A number of football matches being cancelled in Japan right now, provisionally until March 15th. The Sunwolves have two home fixtures in that window which must be at risk of cancellation.

We may have more serious concerns than sport to consider over the next few weeks but the calendar will start to back up, and threatens to disrupt Japan's planned Tests against Wales and England.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:28 am

tigertattie wrote:Do you mean the whole tournament should be abandoned now Fly?

So no Scotland vs France? No England vs Wales?

We're walking into a situation where games without real risk arent going ahead. What then is next? Schools shutting, workplaces closing?

Or do you mean just Italy games are to be cancelled? Then we are walking into biblical times where the lepers are shunned.

Its a bit of a clusterfeck really.

I probably mean that if for example French based and Italian based games can't be played for risk of high density transportation of the virus, then what is the point of going on anyway?
If the Six Nations can't be a valid competition then what is the point?

If teams still want to play the England v Wales game, and fans want to go see it, so be it.  But if French or Italian games are culled then the notion that an England/Wales game would determine who should win the 2020 championship would in my mind be invalid.

That was my point.  Nothing against two teams deciding to play a game.  Just don't think the Six Nations table should keep tallying results if games are cancelled.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:38 am

SecretFly wrote:...Just don't think the Six Nations table should keep tallying results if games are cancelled.
Don't think anyone is cancelling games yet. The talk is about postponement, just as we saw with the foot & mouth season.

I agree with you that the priority is to cut down non-essential travel, and large gatherings. From that perspective, I'd favour postponing most sport. If life gets worse before it gets better, then postponement may well have to turn into cancellation.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:42 am

Looking beyond the 6 nations, if it is compromised then obviously the Champions Cup will be effected as well. We don't know how widespread this will get but as it's already in Italy and France we can only suspect there'll be more areas contaminated. Just as well be just left Europe eh? Time for Boris to close the borders Smile

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Post by BigGee on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:53 am

lostinwales wrote:
tigertattie wrote:There is a real risk of this.

Scotland vs Italy in the ladies 6ns was cancelled last minute at the weekend as that was to be played in an area where the virus has confirmed cases.

Now its not just an issue of games played in those areas, but people in those areas attending the games and taking the infection with them.

I'm surprised that the Scotland team are not (currently) involved in a quarantine situation as it is.

There is of course the other side of the argument where the infection is likely going to spread across the world no matter what we do now so why bother. But then you really need to take every action you can to minimise the risk so just shrugging your shoulders and saying it will spread anyway isn’t an option in this day and age.

Its a serious issue that needs some serious thought. I'm not a doctor but I don’t see why this infection has been grabbing the headlines so much. There’s been what, 2,600 (tragic) deaths from this so far but annually we see 600,000 deaths a year from "regular" flu and we don’t quarantine people from around the world when they've been to an area where that virus is on the go.

It's all a bit odd!

but safety first!

It is true that ordinary Flu is a major killer, but then it primarily takes those who are already weak. Everybody is going to die of something. The reason that Spanish flu (100 years ago) was so notable was that it took the lives of the young and the healthy.

The coronovirus is brand new so we don't have resistance to it. They are talking about a death rate of around 1-2%*, so it is unlikely to affect you or me, but if it does infect enough people the impact will be significant. What is also significant is that there are starting to be outbreaks in places like Iran (and Italy) where they can't track the source.

* public figures - but who knows what is actually happening because China isn't going to publish all the data, and what with quarantine it may take a long time to find all the casualties anyway.

Bit of a generalisation with influenza, as different strains have been known to attack different age groups more severely. The most famous flu pandemic, Spanish flu, after the first world war particularly seemed to attack, otherwise fit younger people and killed many more people than died in the war. There has always been speculation as to why that was, perhaps being related to the populations being generally run down after the war, but it also effected areas not badly effected by it, so it remains a bit of a mystery.

Certainly as someone who works in a hospital, I have seen plenty of young people severely ill with flu, some requiring intensive care. The good vaccination programs of recent years may easily be distorting how the virus would otherwise be effecting its spread through the population.

What we are not used to now, is seeing how a virus may spread pandemically and its effects with no vaccine around to help contain it.

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Post by Soul Requiem on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:54 am

lostinwales wrote:

* public figures - but who knows what is actually happening because China isn't going to publish all the data, and what with quarantine it may take a long time to find all the casualties anyway.

This is the crux of it. I would think that the governments around the world are aware this is the case and are taking measures based on that assumption.

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Post by BigGee on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

On the subject of the 6N, I don't see how you can just take games out of the equation.

There is precedent for games being played at a later date and if they are cancelled completely, then surely they have to be declared a draw.

If that distorts the results a little, so be it. People have to see it for what it is and there will be another competition next year.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:57 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:...Just don't think the Six Nations table should keep tallying results if games are cancelled.
Don't think anyone is cancelling games yet. The talk is about postponement, just as we saw with the foot & mouth season.

I agree with you that the priority is to cut down non-essential travel, and large gatherings. From that perspective, I'd favour postponing most sport. If life gets worse before it gets better, then postponement may well have to turn into cancellation.

I'd prefer cancellations to postponements though.   Teams already have their Summers and Novembers planned.  I think it's just this idea of insisting that sport won't be impeded by any other world events gets to me sometimes.  It's the obsessional, navel-gazing self regard of all codes of sport in this age that irritates me.

I love the Six Nations, I love rugby..... but if it had to be sacrificed to more important things one year - I actually like that kinda notion.  Make the sports stats freaks/geeks furious:  "2020 is Missing!!!!! mad What the f**k happened back in 2020?  It's just not there, guys!  I'm f**king enraged!!!!!!"

I'd love to be a reincarnated fly on the wall in that guy's bedroom sometime in 2167. Wink

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 11:59 am

Pete330v2 wrote:Looking beyond the 6 nations, if it is compromised then obviously the Champions Cup will be effected as well. We don't know how widespread this will get but as it's already in Italy and France we can only suspect there'll be more areas contaminated. Just as well be just left Europe eh? Time for Boris to close the borders Smile

Let me in please! I'm just across the border. Won't take me long to put me toothbrush in the boot of the car. I seek refugee status!

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Post by MichaelT on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 12:10 pm

If the remaining games were cancelled and using the precedent of the world cup and giving draws, would it not just go to France then anyway? The championship I mean.

Don't have to have the records say anything else other than a France win.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 12:11 pm

MichaelT wrote:

Don't have to have the records say anything else other than a France win.

Devalued France win drumroll

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 12:13 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Looking beyond the 6 nations, if it is compromised then obviously the Champions Cup will be effected as well. We don't know how widespread this will get but as it's already in Italy and France we can only suspect there'll be more areas contaminated. Just as well be just left Europe eh? Time for Boris to close the borders Smile

Let me in please!  I'm just across the border.  Won't take me long to put me toothbrush in the boot of the car.  I seek refugee status!

According to the data on Sky news UK has 13 known cases and Ireland none.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 25 Feb 2020, 12:18 pm

lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:Looking beyond the 6 nations, if it is compromised then obviously the Champions Cup will be effected as well. We don't know how widespread this will get but as it's already in Italy and France we can only suspect there'll be more areas contaminated. Just as well be just left Europe eh? Time for Boris to close the borders Smile

Let me in please!  I'm just across the border.  Won't take me long to put me toothbrush in the boot of the car.  I seek refugee status!

According to the data on Sky news UK has 13 known cases and Ireland none.

Let me back home! No, don't do that! Don't close them gates.... I forgot me toothbrush!!!!!

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